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Arrrrghh!!! Why is it EVERYTHING done to stop scripters benefits them?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Jirel of Joiry, Jul 6, 2015.

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  1. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Seriously WHY?

    Okay first they randomized wood and ore. Since then I haven't seen frostwood or valorite. Sammy the Scripter always has them for sale.

    Okay trying to help a returning player place a house, get hit with stupid cool down timer and he can't place. Sammy the Scripter can slap one down at a Luna idoc faster than you can say "cheater"!

    I don't see how these change stop scripters it just benefits them and the regular player are getting screwed.

    Now its idocs "fixs" and the game is dying. The Dev team doesn't get it and never will.
     
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  2. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Personally, I think that they are takng the wrong approach......

    They are merely treating the symptoms, not delivering a cure.....

    That is, the advantage of a scripter is by running a script which does anything a human player can do, but faster and more reliably.

    There is simply no way to fix that for good. A machine will always be able to do repetitive tasks, 24/7, way better then a human can do.

    So, there is just not a chance, as I see it, to change the game Design in a way to make humans be better then scripts. Scripts will always stay on top.

    That said, there IS a way to deal with the issue, IMHO, and that is, finding out those who script and BAN THEM, not only their scripting account, which usually is a "disposable" one, but also those "good" accounts which are not used to cheat but to which all the ill-gotten items obtined with scripting are then transferred to......

    Sure, it takes time and efforts to find out the accounts scripting and those "good" accounts tied/related to them, but, as I see it, it would be the only way to really deal with the problem for good.

    Changing the game only, will never stop scripting. To stop scripting only banning the scripting accounts with a ZERO TOLERANCE policy will do it......
     
    #2 popps, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
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  3. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    It really isn't as dire as you make it out to be, Jirel, for getting high-end ingots or boards. Although randomization was implemented in August 2007, the dev team that you say "doesn't get it and never will" DID add the following ways to help players get high-end ingots and boards in 4 out of the 5 years following 2007:

    - Tree stump and mining cart vet rewards (added with Publish 55 in September 2008).
    - Thepem/Zosilem quests for upgrading ingots (added with the Stygian Abyss expansion in September 2009).
    - Merchant ships and the items you find in their holds, which includes high end ingots, including valorite, and lumber (other than frostwood) (added with the High Seas booster in October 2010).
    - Vela with cauldrons, maps, and talismans to let you get mass quantities of high-end ingots and logs (added to Cove when Covetous was changed in 2012).

    I think it's pretty unfair to say the dev team hasn't tried to address this issue, Jirel. I know I very much appreciated the fact that after randomization occurred, I could actually find frostwood and valorite, instead of always finding the known spots to be empty because scripters were hitting them up all day long while they were probably not even at home to look at their computer. I have no problem at all with walking along a mountainside and mining or walking through the woods lumberjacking one spot at a time and without the use of some script to do the work for me. Between doing that and using things like the vet rewards that give logs and ingots and raiding merchant ships, I get what I need. I haven't needed to do the quests or done the Void Pool to get Vela's rewards and I don't go to IDOCs either.

    There are some good suggestions in this thread from the Crafter's forum a few months ago:

    http://stratics.com/community/threads/so-mining-spots-random.339993/
     
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  4. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Oh I agree Popps, I agree 200%. I fear the problem runs deeper than that.

    What I am about to say will probably piss off everyone including the Dev Team. After playing 13 years, standing by watching things happen, I'm going to just say it: maybe the reason the scripters win, is the RMT people pay to keep doing business as usual.

    Before you start accusing me of wearing a tinfoil hat, think about this: Markee Dragon one of the worst was buddy-buddy with the Dev Team during the time he made his money. Ever think he might have greased a few palms? Now fast-forward to the present UO is struggling, broadsword is struggling, and some RMT person offers to grease a few palms. Ask yourself wouldn't YOU be tempt? Heck politicians, cops, etc have taken bribes, why would it be such a stretch for an EA/Broadsword employee to do the same?

    Why else do they stay in business? I know the economics side of the argument, and I got 4.0 in my economics classes so spare me the Econ. lecture. Just think for a minute, why don't they put the legal system to work? Everyone of these RMT sites uses copyrighted game logos. They clearly violate the millennium digital copyright act. Seriously they could be put out of business tomorrow if EA/Blizzard/etc fought together. They have waaaaaaaay deeper pockets, and a legal team on retainer. Think, why aren't they screaming copyright violation when the movie industry and music industry have been waging war? Okay those industries lose way more money, but the gaming industry loses too. Why aren't they fighting harder? I'm going to stop here because by the time you've read this far you're to steamed to read anything else. Just think about it.
     
    #4 Jirel of Joiry, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  5. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    I lumberjack and all I get is plain, oak and ash wood. If it wasn't for my vet reward stump and looting merchant vessels I wouldn't have any high end ingots or wood. As as for the quests I didn't know they existed. I asked my sister and she did, but said most people she's talked to in game don't know about them.

    It should have never dragged on for so long, I started in 2002 it was going on then, it still goes on. It's a band-aid on a arterial laceration...we're exsanguinating! They should have stopped it years ago. I'm just so frustrated!
     
  6. Seelendolch

    Seelendolch Adventurer

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    Haha, theres this one gold spammer on oceania, sits on the help chat and keeps advertising a website to purchase gold etc. lol
     
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  7. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    makes me happy that i powergamed the heck out of frostwood back before they started randomizing their spawn.
    in fact i once placed a small house beside a frostwood tree so that i could Lumberjack all day and it would auto drop them into the locked down pile at my feet.

    but ya, the new way sucks.
    i go to a new shard and i go all the way to GM in mining or LJ and i end up with zero of the frostwood or valorite.
    for the casual resource gatherer its just not a viable thing.
    heck, i hate to admit it but the last couple times ive needed frostwood i purchased mine from venders that im 99% sure where gotten from scripters. but when ya need frostwood ya need frostwood!
     
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  8. Spock's Beard

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. The Doctor

    The Doctor Adventurer

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    For valorite I use prospectors tool and gargoyle pickaxe. I walk mountain sides or cave areas hitting spots until I find locations that yield or within two steps of valorite. Once I find these spots I do mark them because I can usually get the same ore about six times. I find five or six as well as a few bronze and make rounds. The valorite elementals tho yield the most ore from these trips. The trees are more of a pain no tree elementals and they seem to change more often. But there is not much use for the wood outside enhancing anyways so I don't use much making armor etc.
     
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  10. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    One on Europa too so I'm betting its on most shards. Having got totally frustrated using general chat I now only use the Help channel where he regularly appears, putting the spammer on ignore works for a couple of days and then hes back and you have to put it on ignore again. How hard can it be to put a stop to it permanently, it is supposedly illegal?
     
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  11. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    If Broadsword banned every account that has used a banned third party program, .... Well on that day, Ultima Online will be closing its doors because there will not be enough subscriptions left to sustain it.

    I think UO missed their chance to curtail third party programs when they first popped up. Sure would be interesting to see what we would have today if they had quashed all third party programs....
     
  12. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    I found two frostwood trees yesterday. One had formerly been a bloodwood tree. Just saying! Yes the lumber spawn is a mess and no the void pool didn't help.
     
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  13. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    This has been a probleem since it's inception. Randomization, no matter what anyone may say, only benefitted the scripter. There's no way a casual gamer can mine enough of a particular ingot, reliably, to do anything substantial. The 24/7 bot doesnt care, it works all over all the time because unlike me, it doesn't care to go T-Mapping or spawning. Which means I buy from the scripters vendors, which makes them gold, which they sell for real money ( and againm regardless of what anyone says, removing checks will NOT stop that either) and the circle of life continues. Prior to the change, we very seldom ever bought any materials.

    And throwing a tree stump at us, and mining cart, etc etc, is all a laughable joke, a poor Halloween prank.

    Yes Jirel, there IS a dev team that just doesn't "get" it.
     
  14. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    Anyone ever thought that UO was getting kick backs from said "scripters" They make it so easy for them its hard to not think about it....
     
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  15. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I'm surprised people still mine or lumberjack tbh
     
  16. Nexus

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    I don't think they are getting kick backs in the traditional sense, or bribed or anything else. But what I do think is, that at this point the number of people who would have to banned if there was a zero tolerance policy would leave the Devs without a job as the game would probably be forced to close.
     
  17. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I have been on most shards and outside Atlantic there are very few vendors selling wood or ingots (including the gems and other drops by lj or mining) left out there.
    I will agree they do need to ether up the mix more better as many have said finding a true real val spot is like pulling teeth from a T rex. Damn near impossible!
    Frost wood..... in the last 5 years i have not found more then 1 tree that gave it and that was for exactly 120 logs..... before it went to plain wood.
    I have taken to the tree stumps and ore carts and even the sheep for my leather.... its sad that with very little scrited sales on other shards we have to use other methods to get what we need.
    But i do agree with Tina... we do have other ways to get what we need..
     
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  18. Rodge

    Rodge Visitor

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    The game mirrors life, the honest, law abiding guys get the shaft while the scripting cheaters get rich, the powers that be ignore it....why could that be?
     
  19. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    As I and other have said many many many times they can kill "that program" and all the others like it with ease. Every time they patch the client the creators of "that program" have to patch. It would be TRIVIAL to do a small client update every day , every other , whatever to kill "the program that shall not be named" with ease but they refuse, outright refuse to do it.
     
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  20. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Gargoyle merchant ships... Bountiful resources.
     
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  21. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    before they randomized the spawn of lumber and ore i use to mark all the high end spots and give that book to my red.
    on nights that i was bored and there was nothing to do id go through the book and pop a couple guys, if they answered me id res them if not id move on and kill the next.
    silly as it seems i use to really enjoy that!
     
  22. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Seasoned Veteran

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    I know there are some that have been scripting wood, ingots, fish ect., everyday while at work/sleeping and have never been caught. how can this happen? the devs say they have to prove it. well, it's not rocket science, you just have to look. if u don't look you cant prove anything. you think venders that are restocked daily would be good place to investigate. I know so many people that have quit because of being price cut by them. it really sucks where everyone knows but nothing happens. if each shard has 2 advisors maybe they can help in some way when they aren't busy. I wonder how many volunteers they could get to help stop it. lol Events are the big thing to do with scripts/third party illegal programs. all the devs have done is have more drops which has causes more to use. on a side note, I've been seeing many people using 4 or more chars to do anything in game, they don't need others to do things. how will this change the game? how will new/old people feel with no one to hunt with lol? a lot are using third party programs, some are saying we have right to use more than one char. I don't think we know all of the problems the devs have and maybe they scared of losing so many, $. ive been screwed at so many idocs I cant even count. any good house or house spot will have them the devs need to look. I wonder what will happen when it goes on steam, and what kind of posts will be posted about game on steam.
     
    #22 Lord Arm, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  23. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Advisors "investigating" cheaters is way too abuse prone.
     
  24. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    You know years ago, back when Cal was the producer I seem to remember something about code being added to detect when people were using illegal 3rd party programs. I also seem to recall him at one point saying that it was working as intended, but they'd have to take action against roughly 1/4 to 1/3 the player base and that was about the end of it. Regardless it seems (if this is true and I'm recalling correctly) they have a way to "prove" it's more of a question how detrimental to the player base (legit players) a mass banning would be as it would could, and this point probably would, have negative repercussions on the ability to continue to support the title.
     
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  25. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    IMO it wouldn't take much to add something to the client to "alert" them of accounts that run >20 hours a day. And it then wouldn't take much to put a watch of some sort onto that account and see where they go and what they are up to to find their drop houses and such and then watch to see where they take all the ill gotten wood and ingots to sell them on their vendors and then shut down the entire operation... and yes BAN them, the owner of the Vendor house, the entire group... all their accounts and not just 1 or 2... but all of them and then keep a ban on them. And block them from getting a new account somehow.... or make it more difficult than it's worth.

    But all those "free to play" folk wanting things free to play.... until THIS sort of issue is solved Free to Play would KILL UO. Could you imagine them using free accounts to work the mining and lumberjacking? Set up free drop houses? etc.... at least right now they can't mine good stuff, can't place a house... etc.... without paying.

    And no it doesn't take rocket science to figure out who's doing it. It might take rocket science to stop them though. And the honest truth of it all is..... If it didn't pay off..... THEY wouldn't do it.

    And beyond that most the websites that sell all this stuff.. haven't actually mined or anything else in years they dupe everything they need all they need is a pile to dupe or a deed to dupe... though someone once told me that all the dupes are broken I find that BS.... these sites haven't run out of crap to sell.
     
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  26. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah, this lead to Cal's infamous spreadsheet. It was all smoke and mirrors.

    Without something monitoring the other processes running on your machine, the only thing they could possibly detect is when something alters the data stream...which isn't something that any of the script programs do.
     
  27. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    There hasn't been a legit dupe since the vet xfer token dupe which was in the past year. To understand why these guys are still selling stuff online imagine them duping on multiple accounts day in and day out till it was fixed. All Mesanna has to do is look into someone's house and find massive amounts of the same item. I mean, imagine a house with max storage and all that's there is xfer tokens. Pretty obvious to me what happened...And the fact these guys can do the 90 day rule on idocs means they don't even need to spend the $13 a month to keep the accounts open. Pretty funny if you ask me, not only are they profiting hand over fist but their ROI is controlled by BS own Idoc rules. And to answer the question you might have about why are there current items that they are selling that would make you feel the dupe is still active. All they have to do is go shard by shard and buy their inventory of such items and still profit due to the amount they charge in comparison to how much gold they spent on said item.
     
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  28. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Just make it alll legal, that will level the playing field :p
     
  29. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
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    How bad it can be....

    A few years ago I found a small house idoc out in the middle of nowhere, this is what was in it:

    and yes 4 of those stacks are the same, that's only half of what was there and I could manage before it started decaying.
    Capture.JPG
     
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  30. Philly

    Philly Journeyman
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    I agree with you Jirel on the lumber. I have only came across one frostwood tree ever since the changes and it was a small 4 hitter....it changed a few hours later. But the Ore I use prospector tools and garg pick axes and able to obtain the high end ores. Not much but better than nothing. I feel your pain.
     
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  31. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Cheaters, scripting, duping - It is a major problem in EVERY MMO. If you expect UO to lead the industry in finally finding a solution for it all, you are just plain crazy.

    It sucks, but humans will be humans. There will always be people who work hard to find every loophole, every exploit possible to game the system.

    *That said, I agree the randomization of wood was a halfassed change. It only made things even more difficult for regular players, and even encouraged more use of scripting.*
     
  32. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    OMG! Wow, just wow! You post reminded of an incident with a bot some years ago. I was running around by Brit Tram moongate, I forget what I was doing. Anyway, I found this little 4x4 "plop" house north of the gate near the mountain.

    There were two boxes locked down on the steps that weighed a huge amount of stones. While I was standing wondering about the little house a guy recalled in, started throwing ore and wood into the boxes. I tried to chat with the guy he would not talk. He recalled in and out about 3 times times while I was standing there.

    I told my sister, via guild chat, to get over here I want you to see this and mark a rune. I suspected he might be a scripter-bot. Well we observed him for a month trying many times to talk to him. Finally we took our suspicions to a GM and we got the infamous can o' message. The GMs did NOTHING.

    Sis and I continued to observe this dude join by other residents of Legends. Uriah Heep might remember the dude I'm talking about as it kinda became a community thing to watch the scripter-bot. Six months later the dude is still in business!

    We page a GM again this time it wasn't just me. There were several including my sister that paged. During this time my sister had taken to setting her alarm at different times to get up and log in to see if this guy was still in running in game. Yup, the guy ran 23/7. Still all anyone got from the GMs is the "can o' message" and scripter-bot was business as usual.

    Well god bless Savoua Fair, Plucky Duck, and New Thunder they'd made runes to the scripter bot house. They started opening gates at Luna bank to the scripter bot's house inviting everyone to "See the live naked Scripter", "See Legends very own scripter bot running every day 23/7" and "Step right up folks and see the scripter bot". Well apparently the bot owner didn't like the attention as well as the crowd and actually spoke to us to cuss us all out. About a week later house and scripter bot vanished.

    Someone tell me why it took a bunch of nutty players to do what a GM should have done six months earlier?
     
    #32 Jirel of Joiry, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  33. Seelendolch

    Seelendolch Adventurer

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    Yeah, but in other mmo's if you sit there spamming trade chat you eventually get enough reports, then ban and they have to get a new account to keep doing it (i know its not a perma fix, but what can you do?), here it seems they can spam all day, the people on my shard said this person was advertising for years. Not months, not weeks, years. And they are still there. Hell, in eso they had gm's jump on every now and then, say in chat "step away from the boss", and anyone who didnt got a ban, in order to try stop the farmers. Theres plenty that CAN be done, if the will is there. I am fairly certain there is enough evidence around, a few people have reported this person over the years for spamming chat with an illegal site. If they actually wanted to get rid of them they would.
     
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  34. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Valorite isn't that hard to get, between Prospector's Tool+Gargoyle's Pickaxe, and the Zosilem quests (it's a grind unlocking the 3rd Tier Quests however). Frostwood on the other hand, is ridiculous to get. I can LJ for hours on end, hitting each tree up to three times to probe for high end wood, and if i'm extremely lucky, i'll find a single Frostwood Tree, which usually yields about 40-80 Frostwood Logs before depleting, and changing to some other wood.
     
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  35. Jirel of Joiry

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    No...
    [​IMG]

    LOL
     
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  36. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Dot, I beg to differ with you in reguards to the Advisors ....
    From what I read of the program its the same as the old counselor program.. in which they do have the ability to answer a players call of a "scripter/macroer unattended" Mind you I do not think Mesanna has it as their main objective but I cant see if you find one and tell them(meaning the advisor) of it that Mesanna will not mind they look into it.
     
  37. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    RE the spammers that advertise the gold selling websites. The account that does the spamming isn't directly related to any of the farming accounts. It is just a trial account. They just create a new trial account every week or two. That's why they can't get rid of the spammer accounts. And that's why you have to block them in chat every week or two. It's a different character.
     
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  38. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Arcus said:
    Honestly, forget about "that program". The EC has so much power available, via lua scripting, that the exact same things (and more) could be done using solely an "official" client and no third-party programs. I've never understood why [the unnamable program] is banned, yet it is perfectly fine to have widely used plugins for EC that do equivalent (and more powerful!) things such as pick up everything from a corpse.
     
  39. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Well we needed an advisor or GM tonight and NADA! Scripter/cheaters win again, us rule abiding players get screwed.

    I'm to the point of saying to hell with it and start using the programs that cannot be named. If ya can't beat em may as well join em, right?
    Maybe we all should? Mesanna couldn't possibly ban everyone and herself out of a job. I'd hope she'd have better self preservation than that.

    I'm just freaking mad, 13 years never used a cheat, script or hack. Yet there are those who just blatantly cheat/script/hack/dupe their asses off! I don't have any answers, and I don't know who does. I do know it frustrates me to no end!
     
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  40. Necron87

    Necron87 Journeyman
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    It is necessary to pay attention of developers to a problem! @Mesanna @Bleak please help us with this problem:please:


    Some players selling 400 legendary items in a week!!!! 400 new legendary in a week, this 100 % macrosing. This players strongly becomes impudent and isn't afraid of GM or GM does of nothing
     
    #40 Necron87, Jul 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  41. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Jirel, if you want the devs to do something about scripting, hacking, and duping, just ranting about how the players who do it "win" and rule-abiding players "get screwed" may not have much effect.

    To get the dev team to pay attention to what you are saying, it may be more effective to spell out EXACTLY how the actions of these other players are affecting your ability to play and enjoy UO. For all we actually know, the people who make the decisions regarding what will and won't be worked on may believe that what the scripters/hackers/dupers are doing is actually keeping UO afloat and thus they have little incentive to change it. Presenting multiple very specific examples of what is being done and the exact negative effect(s) it has on you and the people you play with might be what it takes to make something happen. Otherwise, you can probably just expect things to stay the same and your choice will be to either keep paying to play UO and accept things the way they are or just stop paying for something you no longer get enough enjoyment from to justify your time and money.

    Yeah, it sucks to feel like there is not much you can do about the cheating. But I honestly think that with the dev team being as short-handed as it is now, the only way anything is going to change is if people make a very clear and compelling case that what is happening is driving away EXISTING players in large numbers. It's pretty clear there's no emphasis any more on trying to attract new or former players into playing UO. All efforts seem to be put into keeping most of the existing players content enough to not move on to something else. So do your best to show how the cheating is keeping that from happening and maybe someone will pay attention and actually make changes to stop the cheating while keeping most of the people who are cheating still paying and playing.
     
  42. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    So here are a few thoughts:

    I played for YEARS only having used UO Assist, and even that very minor for things like bag sorting. I had no idea that things like multiboxing, scripting, duping were legitimate issues. I didn't post on stratics, so I never saw complaint threads. I played mostly solo. I never participated in em events.

    Last year, the house next to mine on atl went idoc. Then the one in front of me did the same. Both were supposed to fall about the same time. Both were public. Having not done idocs before, I was very excited. Huge crowds gathered because both places write old and full.

    I waited patiently beside a chest. Place fell,and IN SECONDS everything disappeared. It looked like a vacuum was sucking items up. How did this happen? Man I was frustrated. A friend explained that a script could map items in a public house and grab them immediately. This is about the time I fled to siege.

    Fast forward to this past winter's idocalypse. I had JUST come to legends, and what a blast! There were so many, and sitting at each I got to know some legends loyals like Matt Logan. Most of these went fine, I didn't get much but always ended upwith a bunch of logs. I thought man, people here really like lumberjacking. Then someone explained that it was from scripting.

    At the next idoc, a good one, toons named a, b, c, etc started showing up. They got everything!

    I had enough.

    I started looking into it. Sure enough, there were all kinds of things out there. Another idoc was coming up, so I thought I would try one out. I picked one, targeted a crystal portal I needed, and waited. Sure enough, when it fell, the portal appeared in my pack. Then I raced around and grabbed the little I could before it was all gone. I felt bad that these dummy accounts had grabbed everything, but at least I had one item to show for it. The next several idocs I would repeat this, getting one item, missing the rest. Then the idoc changes happened. This caused a huge ruckus, but I saw it as a good thing. It stopped people from mapping items. While I couldn't target my one item, I knew I would at least have a chance at the things inside. Last week someone dropped a bunch of runes to a fel castle idoc. I went, hid on my dreadmare, it dropped in a few minutes. A few people started running around, I managed to grab several nice items (see my legends barter thread), no one was scripting, and it was great. So the devs addressed at least one serious scripting issue.

    At the same time, I started trying pvp on Siege. I'm terrible. I couldn't catch people, and when I would they would do 6 things to my one. Finally I saw a discussion in GC about speeders. A friend explained it to me. We had a guy run away from a mounted, very experienced pvp player. I looked again, sure enough, tons of pvp things. Things that auto target, auto cast, auto everything. I didn't bother with these. I suck at pvp, but one day I'll get better. Siege has enough people who are good without these that I'll always be able to find a fair fight. But it did suck to know the odds are so heavily stacked.

    I finally started using a bandie macro. Something that I'm sure the ec can do much better. I still die all the time. I forget to use petals, or try to use pots with two handed weapons.

    Is that cheating? Anyone who has played in game with me would be hard pressed to argue I'm getting an advantage. With me typically the first to die, and trying to use a game with arm braces on two arms and a plethora of accomodation equipment, I'm just not competitive.

    The fact is, if all third party programs stopped today, there are so many uo fortunes made from YEARS of scripting that a group of people will always have an advantage. Someone showed me their vendor atms. They had BILLIONS of gold in this house of dummy vendors. That didn't come from farming creatures.

    I reached the point where I accept it. A huge number of people have benefited from these things, and I don't feel bad at all about trying something to ease the monotony of certain activities. Does it mean I will use it all the time? Not at all. I would say 9 / 10 times I look to see how something works, and never look at it again. I don't use speeders, or auto kill programs, I don't multibox, I don't dupe items. Would I feel bad about using a program to cast the same spell over and over? No. Because there is so much worse that is so obvious, and it is accepted by ea. Jirel? or someone mentioned having documented proof of cheating, and the admins not acting. In light of that, what can you do? If all third party programs disappeared tomorrow, the only effect on me would be that I would die even MORE frequently. It wouldn't change my taming. It wouldn't cost me any gold. I would be as happy without uoassist or something else as with it. But until I stop bumping into actual cheaters on EVERY PRODUCTION SHARD I've visited, my qualms about these things will be negligible. When I find people doing this stuff, I just have fun with it. Found a guy on Siege unattended, raising a skill. My nightmare REALLY wanted to kill him. Instead, I just surrounded him with piles of junk. Lots of junk. If I see people recalling to the same spot I'm mining over and over, I just spawn shadow elemental. If I see people farming mobs unattended, I just pull bigger mobs in, like the balron in blackthorns. I totally understand the feeling of anger about seeing people get rich in game, but I agree with some of the other posters that at this point it would economically harm the game if all those accounts were banned. I suggest doing what I do, which is find people you trust to play with, and make your own fun.

    Sorry about the long long rant there. Another regular poster (who I know in game) complained about this a while back. He finally came to the if you can't beat em, join em conclusion. While I don't advocate that, I would say try, as hard as it can be, to just find other things in the game to enjoy. I've missed so many items from idocs in the last year it isn't even funny. Even before the idoc change, I gave up on them. wasn't worth the stress. Now I don't bother with them unless it is very convenient.


    Damn, still long rant :( sorry, really stopping this time.

    Tldr: years of scripting means even if legalized, you'll never catch up. Try to not stress about it. Go kill things with me sometime instead.
     
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  43. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    I agree Tina. I can't really say that other players scripting, hacking, and duping has ever negatively impacted my ability to play and enjoy UO at all. In fact at times it has helped me out. For example the people who script quests in heartwood on Atlantic daily for the last year. I've found many useful talismans and recipes lying in back packs on the ground. Not to mention all the cleanup points. Or using script lumberjacks to find and mark where all the best trees are located. Because clearly if the scripter is returning to the same trees and mining spots over and over there is a reason. But I'll let all you novice lumberjacks and miners who can't find valorite or frostwood figure that out.
     
  44. Par

    Par Visitor

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    Perhaps the role of local government could be augmented. Why not have the Governor have control of an entire territory surrounding its town. That Governor can appoint characters (as a sheriff or deputies) who have the ability to "transport" suspected scripters to the town jail (which would be a no-recall area). This would be possible to do on any facet. The jailed character would then have say ten minutes to do something in particular in order to get out of jail (in order to verify that it is not a scripter), or be sent to Yew prison for a set term (say 90 days). Such a person could get out of prison by paying a fine to the town (say $10M gold) or by asking for a trial in order to prove he or she was innocent. Such deputies could only be on accounts that were at least seven years old. Deputies would get some sort of reward for this. Deputies could then from time to time patrol their areas searching for possible scripters.

    Couldn't the devs set up something like that?
     
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  45. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Some version of this would be awesome. Details could be argued, but the time out ability would be great.
     
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  46. Necron87

    Necron87 Journeyman
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    And if the governor of the bribe?) You can give him a sum of $ that he was not paying attention to the bots ) :beer:
     
  47. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    So, like the real world then?. ;)
     
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  48. Necron87

    Necron87 Journeyman
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    Of course)))) UO has long been similar to the real world ) "Nothing personal. Only business" :thumbup1:

    Some of our wealthy players which macrosing brings a lot of gold and $, are capable of everything)
     
    #48 Necron87, Jul 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  49. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I just farm a bit of gold from the ilsh spawns and by mats from the scripters...Cant' beat em, might as well use em. Besides, I dont really want to mine and chop all day anyway :D
     
  50. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Receiving and answering a call is completely different then 'investigating' and/or 'apprehending' a cheater. Advisors don't have any special abilities to determine "guilt" above that of a regular player. Nor should they be given such abilities, the opportunity for abuse is simply too great. They should kick suspicions of a cheater to a GM.

    GMs should be the only ones investigating and meting out punishments.

    Sadly, the can of worms Mesanna opened with her statement that only unattended macroing would be enforced (Baja M&G), and her latest facepalm-inducing "Any way you want to win, that’s how you win." line from the Massively interview just reinforces UO's culture of cheating. Change needs to start at the top.
     
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