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|Ask the Devs| Follow up on "Cornucopia"

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hunters' Moon, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    Sakk said....

    Marginal number of players? Sakk,how can you know that only a few would be interested in this? Have you asked the player base? Maybe sent out an email/in-game survey asking who would like brewing? No? I would venture a guess that every tavern-attending roleplayer across all the shards would love to see this.

    I covered that in an old post on how to bring in alot of different crafter skills to make brewing possible in game....*tries to find a very old post* Thanks to Petra for finding it for me!


     
  2. jbfortune

    jbfortune Slightly Crazed
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    Well, I'm not interested in it, so we can safely assume, using complex maths, that half the player base, are not interested.
     
  3. Endrik

    Endrik Sage
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    I also would have no interest in Brewing at all in any way shape or form. I know that there are some players who would love this, but to me it would be completely wasted effort from the devs.

    We already have alchemy for "brewing" potions that give you bonuses. There is no need to add another system to make consumable liquids that would grant any kind of addition to game play.

    JMHO
     
  4. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    What if certain rare brewing recipes would create alcohol that might give temporary bonuses to a player whether via accuracy, etc or perhaps they lent some PvM advantage such as certain monsters temporarily ignoring you due to the smell on your breath much like tribal paint and orc masks.

    Brewing could be put in as a GM ability to cooking much akin to glassblowing for alchemists.

    I personally would like the idea of brewing if we could label bottles of it. Be a strong boon for rpers and even non-rpers to give out special brew during events such as Winter Ale, etc.
     
  5. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    This.

    This typifies how out-of-touch the dev team is. Had there been a patch screen account-bound poll on the topic, Sakk's comment might hold credibility.

    The RP aspects of UO need to be encouraged and fostered by the Dev team and the systems it implements - or UO is just another MMO that has forgotten its MMORPG roots.
     
  6. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
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    I am afraid I would have to agree. Having run player run events for years, and knowing how a 'few' in game would actually love to be able to have a fun rp 'brewing' it would be that, a FEW.

    I know on my shard, and I suspect most, the number of serious/active rp'ers is around 1:50 if that. As part of a player run group we opened a 'tavern' right in the centre of luna with a full bar with 'free' beers in an esky, waiters to supply 'other' drinks, tables with games and dartboards, and sure for the opening few days people came by, and when we ran an full on advertised 'event' ppl would come by, however the rest of the time the place was idle. Even if you sat there all day you would be lucky if anyone else bothered to venture inside.

    In fact even then anyone who did was 99/100 just in to ask if you knew anyone selling xyz etc. To me the days of full on rp in UO are long gone, and there is just a remnant population left.

    Devoting Dev time to something that has no 'profit' to game play, in terms of either making ppl money or by improving skills, training or fighting in some way would seem to me a waste of resources when the majority are not interested.

    A good example of wasted dev time is 'chocolate' stuff. There were some very 'vocal' people who were 'dying' to have this stuff. How much of this do you see for sale, all the cocoa butter, trees that produce a useless item, and stuff the paragons drop, seriously no one bothers with it and no one was ever going to 'bother' with stuff that has no 'profits' as above. I don't even 'loot' the paragon stuff as it doesn't even stack lol.

    As for the 'things' you could do to 'make' or 'include' various trades able to produce the items required, while in theory this sounds good, in practice it won't happen. Most people I know literally HATE making potion kegs due to the mucking about with different trades to get taps and hoops and lids etc etc. Why do you think trying to 'buy' a switch to recharge a talisman is next to impossible? The devs got too clever in making it the most onerous task in any game I know for people to even 'bother' after doing it once or twice. I run a shop, and even I cannot and will NOT devote the time to 'bother' with these even tho I know I can make a profit off them and sell out each time I stock. Having made about 20 of them (twice) cured me of the need to make them ever again.

    I am afraid once you start including 'more' trades to produce ONE item, you are NOT going to force people to work together, either a player will have a character/s with all the required trades on the one toon, or people won't bother with the item, it is as simple as that. If too much 'hassle' is required to produce an item they also wont bother. I am not a 'lazy' person, I provide pretty much every craftable item in game in my shop by gathering my own resources etc, however, any item that requires more than a single trade that I have on different toons, or too many different items, especially if they in turn need to be crafted first, I just won't bother with and from experience, no one else does either. I only stock stuff that I have the 'time' to maintain supply on.

    The fact the dev said, as you did: "will involve different crafter trades" makes me shudder. Devs need to take a serious look at how any 'crafted item' that involves more than ONE craft already works, which in my view is dismally, players on the whole, DO NOT LIKE MESSING AROUND, to produce a single item. Stop getting too clever in this kind of thing or the same thing will happen as happened with a lot of the neat ML stuff, people just will NOT go to the hassle of production. As a crafter we all want new stuff and to be able to 'use' our crafters, however, once you get a lumberjack needed for xyz, a carpenter to get abc, the miner to get 123 and to make 345 to combine with the lumberjacks xyz forget it. Give my crafters stand alone items and do NOT force me to have to pull out all the trades just to make one stuffing item especially if that item has an in game value of less than 2k.

    Sorry, your idea was nice, but I agree that it would be the tiniest minority of players who would wish to spend any time crafting or producing this stuff after the initial novelty wore off as the dev stated.
     
  7. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    If it were an actual skill - I'd certainly train it up and stick it on a soulstone... but I can't say I'd ever actually use it. And that statement's coming from a Drunken Elder. :p

    I'd love to see it if the Dev's had a lot of free time, but I think there are a lot higher priorities at the moment.
     
  8. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    I don't think so. I mean you can lead a horse to water...if the dev team tried to encourage RP it wouldn't work. If they did some kind of quest or event where you had to RP in order to get the shiny it would **** people off, much like putting stuff in fel only. People like the playstyles they end up with, they don't like being made to do something different.

    Personally I love the RP style world where everyone pretends their own thing. Nowadays everyone is always rushing off to do something that will net them more gold or a better suit. So while I'd like to see more people RP, I know that you just can't make people do it.

    What I *would* like to see added that might touch tangentially on the subject of brewing and other ideas would be to introduce a once a week poll in place of the old FoF, or even put it on the patch screen or as a gump in the game window. Then each week the results would show from the old poll and there would be a new poll. There would need to be a toggle so you wouldn't have to see it if you didn't want to. But it could be a good way to gauge what the active players want. *shrugs*
     
  9. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
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    Bored just reading it
     
  10. Sak also said this:

    "Having a brewery system is definitely something I would like to see in the game at some point. But as you guessed, it is not on the radar right now. Why? Because developping sub-systems and mini-games takes a lot of time and in this case it would also require new art. So when deciding which mini-game to work on, we have to think about the greatest return on investment.

    It wouldn't make sense for us to spend weeks/months developping something that only a marginal number of players will take part in. It would need to be something that has a broader appeal and more importantly, something that people will continue to want to do after the novelty wears off. Meaning that we will need to come up with ways for brewed liquor/beverages to be consummables for which there is significant demand and that, as you mentioned, will involve different crafter trades.

    In short, we are in favor of adding brewing we just don't know when we'll get around to it. But it's definitely not in the short term."

    Which I think is very reasonable considering how understaffed they are right now.
     
  11. Helfgrim

    Helfgrim Guest

    In all honesty instead of spending the resources on a new subsystem, a bottle engraving tool made by tinkers, to label a bottle of wine that its Elven made or from the Abbey Vineyards would suffice for most roleplayers. I am grateful for the goblin rotgut and harvest mead that we received recently!
     
  12. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I agree. I'd be in favor of that which would be nice for rp and events and should be relatively painless time wise. Could make is a glass etching tool and have it also work on glassware so we can label different flasks and such.
     
  13. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    Honestly,I would be happy to just make brew the same way we have the option of making eggnog. I would be happy to make it be that simple to do. 5 charges of water(one pitcher), one charge of hops and let sit for one week in a rehued keg and viola...a brew.
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'd like to see brewing added.... but then I was a Yew RPer for many many years... so brewing wine only makes sense....

    I'm glad for all that has been added lately and I'm even happier to have EM's... something I hope they don't axe....
     
  15. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    I'm about as excited about a 'brewing' skill as I am with a 'legendary rock,paper,scissors master' skill.
     
  16. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    I can script it in one day, with the existing code.

    It's incredibly easy to just add variety to already existing systems... It shouldn't even be debated !

    I'll hold back again, I guess. Months to transform the alchemy skill into brewing ?

    I'm holding back. I really am ! see !

    Beer , wine and whatever else already exists, give the bottle a new hue if you find it funny ?

    I'm holding back... lots of time ?! I scripted for OSI, you gotta be kidding. (ok last time I edit it, I gotta hold back)
     
  17. altarego

    altarego Guest

    Actually, I think you're preaching to the choir. Of all of the devs, I think Sak is most qualified and in the best position to make such a judgement. I suppose that's why she answered the question...? Hmm...wasn't that the whole point of the sub-forum?
     
  18. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    There are lots of other things I would like to see before a brewing system (Which I would never use... I dont do plants either)

    Some examples:
    - Working global chat channels intregrated with the chat system
    - Update guild and party gumps - make it possible to invite guildies to a party
    - Update the ingame map of the EC so you can track party/guildmembers
    - Put all the hours needed into the EC so we get an even better and smoother new client, that will be able to carry UO thru the next 10 years
     
  19. altarego

    altarego Guest

    Frankly, I'd like my damn mugs/fountains, etc to stop flashing in the EC before I make anything in that will decorate it.

    Ultimately, brewing is about making a bunch of deco items. There are very, very few gameplay-related items that might be possibly involved with brewing; and, most of those are involved with drops or Alchemy.

    Let's focus on those core skills and environments first before we start adding any more....PLEASE.
     
  20. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    Don't underestimate the power of RPS!!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    etc
     
  21. Click wheat, click barely, click yeast, click bucket. That be fun for a second till there 10000000 bottles of brew.

    Im not sure why we would want this like the above.

    If it were going to be done I think SAK is right. It would be very time consuming and have to be done right.

    And I much rather have them working on random adventuring.

    Maybe they could just make a label maker as a gift and we can slap it on bottle there with what ever name we want.
     
  22. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    You too huh?

    :twak: Brewing.
     
  23. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    Well, I for one would love to see it. Don't think it would be much of a hassle. Just add wine beer, cider and liquor to the cooking menue, needing each 1 empty bottle and then a grape, a hops (make us just use the plant itself if you don't want to add a new resource), an apple and a bottle of wine for the new stuff. And you're done.
     
  24. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Any more marginal than gardening?

    How small is marginal?
    Champ spawns that, at a guess, maybe 2-5% of the playerbase use semi-regularly?
    Throwing, which I honestly haven't seen anyone use, or say a good thing about?
    Harvesting the now-randomised resources by hand?
     
  25. Salya Sin

    Salya Sin Guest

    Drunken Master anyone? :pint: :drool: Ok, I'm good and drunk... bring it! :fight:
     
  26. Dolphoenix

    Dolphoenix Guest

    Well first thing I'd say is drinking period needs to be more fun.. blur the screen.. have your character say random stupid things other than *hic*.. maybe fall flat on his face at times...

    as to brewing itself as a skill... unless they're planning on adding 'mountain-folk' (dwarves) .. I'd vote no.

    as to adding it as a small subsytem. I'd say yes. add it to cooking or alchemy.
    I mean *really* ..Devs.. Players..how hard would it be to add a craftable moonshine still for brewing? A couple of simple recipes to produce either a liquor or wine bottle and allow players to add their own title for the drink? what would it take, and afternoon or two?

    I alway say anything that IMPROVES the game is welcome. Not everything has to be about new artifacts or stats or fixing an old problem... immersion is important too!
     
  27. Tay M'real

    Tay M'real Guest

    I think this is a neat subsystem - but in the long run I don't think it's sustaining.

    The growth of UO has darn near outdone it's britches. The systems today are overly complicated. Back in the day - UO worked because the crafting and systems were simple.
     
  28. I agree.
    Im more for using what we have that adding to what we have.
    POLISH POLISH and more spit and polish.
     
  29. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I disagree, to be honest.
    UO would have worked if every system was a minigame - if crafting a sword had been as complicated as growing a plant from seed to fully grown.
    The abundance of resources has done a lot to simplify the crafting process, far beyond its original complexity.
    Add in UI improvements and the process is trivial.

    UO worked, because it defined itself, and pretty much the genre. Not because they had somehow acheived perfection on the first try.
     
  30. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Just as an FYI, if you go talk to an NPC named Aliabeth the Tinker in the Royal City, just west of the bank, she offers a quest called "The Exchange." She wants five pieces of white chocolate and a dark sapphire in exchange for a bag of "hard to obtain imbuing ingredients." I haven't gotten around to doing it yet because on the shards where I had a few spare sapphires, I didn't have all of the necessary ingredients to make white chocolate (i.e., 1 sack of sugar, 1 cocoa butter, 1 vanilla, and a pitcher of milk).
     
  31. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    It was a nice surprise to find that you need to use wine to make color fixative if you want to have your cook or alchemist make the new natural dyes from plant clippings. I think buying wine to make dye was the first time I'd ever purchased wine and definitely the first time I ever purchased it in bulk.
     
  32. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Here's a list of some ingredients you might need to have for brewing / distilling:

    • Yeast
    • Grape juice and must
    • Grains of various types (e.g., barley, wheat, corn, oats, rye, rice, millet, sorghum)
    • Agave
    • Yucca
    • Potatoes
    • Hops
    • Fruit of various types
    • Honey
    • Molasses
    • Spruce tree shoots
    • Sassafrass
    • Vanilla
    • Licorice root
    • Anise
    • Acacia
    • Cinnamon
    • Cloves
    • Nutmeg
    • Ginger

    And here are some brewed products you might be able to craft:

    • Beer (lager, ale)
    • Whiskey
    • Gin
    • Rum
    • Tequila
    • Vodka
    • Wine
    • Brandy
    • Various liquers
    • Root beer
    • Kombucha (a fermented sweetened tea)
    • Dandelion and Burdock
    • Vinegar
    • Grapeseed oil
    • Red dye
    • Cream of tartar
    • Marmite
    • Turpentine

    And that's it for me for now other than to say I think brewing and distillation would make a fun addition to UO. Maybe some of us that are interested in seeing it happen could do some more research and help the developers by providing more input on how to tie it into other parts of UO. Perhaps one of the mods for the UO Botany and Nutrition forum could start a stickied thread in that forum for players to use for posting ideas on brewing and distillation?
     
  33. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    You forgot an ingredient and a draft that must be added for every Drow in UO..... you need to add

    Blood (to be obtained by using a vial on any blood spilt...)

    Bloodwyne (The favored drink of Drow and many others)
     
  34. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    This is definately strange... what happened to drows anyways ? Casca got killed and they ran like sissies back to the undergrounds ?

    I know literally dozens of players if asked would script this add on for free... all needed is to revise the script, even just hit debug and go.

    The script subsystem is a very easy language, even a beginner could do it, I'm not kidding.

    I wonder whats the goal in laughing at the playerbase like that. People have been requesting cooking improvements for years, some buffs, something ! But no...

    This is totally blowing my mind out...
     
  35. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
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    how uh... how many would that be? there's you, apparently, and uhm.. 8)

    look, we already got cooking which is about as useless as they come. do we really need -another- skill just to roleplay with?
     
  36. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Because you've actually worked on UO? What you've seen in the emulators is not the same scripting engine that runs UO.

    Not saying that they couldn't do it, but I'd also like to see them do it well, not just do it. Just because anyone could sit down and script something doesn't mean that the end result would be either robust or good. I will say they should put it on the plate... it'd be no less interesting than glassblowing, stonecrafting, or basket weaving, and would make a good add-on skill for cooking.
     
  37. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Well you even put the words in my mouth brother, there is indeed a system already written for these kind of things, the only need to do is a basic script !

    You know... if A =b +s dui
    then yeayeayea yyoyoyoyo

    And no I did not work directly on UO but I have learned then and today how it works. I know what could be done elsewhere also, but also in other games with different developpers, I grew with computer games and C++ although the latter didn't interest me much cause when they stole UO away from me, it didn't matter much anymore.

    You see, I'm a nobody, but they made me someone, and it's half-monster.

    But thats besides the point... 'tis an early time to live fully.

    Isn't it time for it to change ? Lets all pay 2$ more and send everyon who disagrees for 10 years in paradise island, where the grass is green and the girls are pretty ?

    Doods... we lost so much people for things like this, MAGNITUDINAL HUMANITY !!! :grouphug:
     
  38. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    It would be a very few people. Those who RP tavern keepers are a minority.
    Especially if it's just an alchemy copy-cat.
     
  39. Lord Urza

    Lord Urza Guest

    *yawn* brewing? why not knitting? be just about as exciting.

    No seriously, why not something cool like Adding some new iteming into the existing mule skills if your gunna do that, brewing to alch, trapmaking to tinkering, More mounts armor to smithing, something very minor to tailoring as it allready is the focus of crafting for most people imo.

    That would at least touch on the original idea here, and be possitive for a much larger margine of players.
     
  40. Dolphoenix

    Dolphoenix Guest

    Good lord I'm sick to death of tailoring. the only reason it's any kind of focus is because the armor is better, and IMHO it SHOULDN'T be! If anything tailored armor should be on the low end of protective gear, not the top!
     
  41. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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