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Discussion in 'UHall' started by ingsmsico, Feb 11, 2010.
I disagree with the premise of the title, to an extent.
I would rate the "Ask the Devs" function a marginal success.
However, if compared to "Five on Friday", then yes. "Ask the Devs" is a huge failure.
While "Five on Friday" had never addressed any questions I submitted, at least it was steadily updated and I would learn more from it.
The "Ask the Devs" feature is totally weak, instead of five questions answered per week, we're lucky if we get one.
I've communicated this to EA on several occassions, but if I ever do decide to walk away from UO, I will not ever again purchase any product from EA.
EA's customer service, both in-game and outside the game sucks.
They (the UO team) either don't have resources to answer many questions (as in answering the questions of necessity gets pushed to the bottom of the pile until it's either answer a question or go home, and most choose, rightly, to go home), or don't have the will to, or both.
As a replacement for Five on Friday it was never a good idea, though, because by definition the forum has a much smaller potential audience: Stratics visitors vs. UO players more broadly.
You gotta face it Galen's "player"
We are UO.
Actually, this isn't entirely true - customer service, once you can get it, is actually quite a bit above par. The problem is, they have very few people in their CS department, and they are covering a multitude of games, game styles, and age groups - everything from The Littlest Zoo (or some such), aimed at the sub-7 crowd, Rockstar, the MMO's, the console games, etc etc ad nauseum. Couple this with the fact that EA, as a corporation, is cheap when it comes to spending a dollar... it's the company itself that deserves the scorn, and not the CS department, who, as I noted in a different thread, seems to be completely overwhelmed.
Some will argue that EA isn't making a profit, to which I counter, they are making a profit - just not as large as they would like. When a company pays dividends, they are making a profit, plain and simple. Anything else is very much ponzi like. (read: Enron and Bernie Madhoff) They can afford to hire more people - they (the execs and shareholders) just don't want to lose that extra prime rib dinner on their weekly dinner rotation.
I second that! Ask the devs is a huge failure on several levels, the one lacking in the quote ist that it doesnt reach most player (no, stratics is not the majority of UO players).
No, we're not...We are a small, self-selected group of people who like to talk about it. Not all of us on these boards even play, by people's own admissions.
stratics is the majority of UO players that care...
if the japanese were even a bit intelligent, they'd have their own stratics board...
or the russians for that matter...
And the actual initiative is not a fail... EA sekret club gag orders are.
all the others are noobs... face it.
If you are a UO player you HAVE to talk about it, or it's just a silly WOW type game.
This statement doesn't even come close to making sense.
Some of the best players I know talk about it rarely, if at all. Not everyone wants to put up with the kinds of people who post here. I actually feel I need to pull back, and periodically I do for a few months.
UO is a game. A UO player, therefore, by definition is someone who plays the game, whether they like to discuss it or not.
Holy mother, Ahu is making sense to me. It's like he's...right.
The crap did I put in this coffee?
Nothing's wrong with your cofee...
you'll just find I wasn't serious most of the time...
but when someone tries to dishonor my marriage in UO, you can bet I'm serious about it.
If you had lived the real UO Galen, you'd know exactly what I am speaking of. It's a community, not a dry, pathetic game.
Maybe you need to get a clue from your elders... even if we don't seem to disagree on the larger issue.
Like you say, I haven't really met any players who have never visited Stratics. As far as UO forums communities are concerned, it is certainly the largest and most vibrant.
"Elders" usually means people who have been playing UO longer. There's an assumption that I must have started in the last 6 months or something, because I refuse to kiss up to PKs and the like.
In actuality, I have been playing UO since roughly a year or so before Trammel. Some people have played longer than I have, I know. You may be one of them, I neither know nor particularly care; it was you who made the remark, not I.
But if you push back your definitions far enough, the only "real" UO players were the original devs who played before it even entered Alpha testing.
Nice try on the "elders" bit, though...No, actually, it wasn't. It was rather pathetic. You made a ridiculous claim that made no sense. I saw it for what it was, you got pissed off. You're going on ignore now. For what it's worth, some of the most popular, well-liked board posters are on my ignore list, so you'll be in "good" company.
I've met several.
Galen is right, there are numerous players who don't even visit Stratics.
Some don't because they don't know of it, others because the dislike the community, and some because they dislike how stratics is viewed as somehow 'more important' in the food chain to UO than other sites that are in the community.
You would say that "most" UOers have never visited Stratics?
I would say many have visited at least, but maybe not 'most'. I would also venture to say that, in my personal experience, a decent portion do not come here to post or look for info, for whatever reason.
Odd. Certainly, some players have never visited Stratics, but based on my interactions, I would think that most have.
And the majority of those who have don't past.
Check the number of guests vs. members viewing the Uhall.
Right, that's what I mean. I'm not talking posters. Many folks I know read Stratics, but don't post on forums.
A competitor did an in-game survey, asking how many of the population had even set up an account on the corporate owned and run forums - the results? Just under 8%. (There is no guest function - these forums are available only to active subscriptions - even closed accounts no longer have access to anything but general section of the site)
So it would not be surprising to me to find that less than 10% of the total UO population had ever visited, let alone had heard of, Stratics. It would surprise me even less to find that no more than 3/4 of those that have been here set up an account, let alone participate.
Well if that is the case then I suggest this. Make some books. Copy them and distribute them around all shards. If everyone is sooo worried that people aren't getting the information, then direct them to it. Thats what I started doing.
This is bad on all levels.....
Ok first of YES UO's Ask the DEV's here on Stratics is a HUGE letdown... and quite honestly stinks... it's a far cry from FoF and it's no where close to anything resembling customer support or concern...
That said...... as for Stratics itself while it is a wonderful site and tool it is a website managed by people... and one thing I can say is the pompom wavers run the show.... and they control the forums.... and most the time if you are NOT a pom pom waver for UO which often I am NOT ..... not that I don't love UO as much as the next guy .... I do love my game.... however I don't wave pom poms for it..... I am HIGHLY critical of the DEV's of EA and of the lame customer support BECAUSE I care about UO.
Because I have a vision of what UO could be... What I wish it was... how I'd like to see it..... and what it was.... (NO this does NOT mean that I want to go back to "pretram" days! I would NEVER have played UO pre-Tram for more than probably the first week or so... I'd have gotten incredibly P.O'D in that first week and would have said to ...... with this!)
No I think my ideal UO would be a huge combination between old and new and some never before...
UO as a concept and as a game has more to offer than any other game on the market... if they could get past the craptastic graphics we'd have the best game out there.
Would I scrap everything to start all over with a TRUE 3d client??? Maybe... 5 years ago I'd have told you to forget it... no way.... but now Yeah I could maybe do that.... if it didn't compromise the custimability of the game.... because that right there is the reason I still love UO.
The way UO lends itself to RP is without a doubt one of the most endearing things about it.
And I'll tell you right now..... for every 1 person who reads stratics there are 3 or 4 who used to but don't anymore because they have either been banned..... had poor experiances with Stratics/stratics staff.... or they just have NEVER heard of it (Yes believe it or not there are tons of folk playing who have NEVER been to this website.) Infact some folk I've spoken to about Stratics refuse to come here because ..... They think it is CHEATING. And they consider this site to be full of cheaters.... *laughs*.... I've actually been told that.
Even others think it may be a bannable offense to come here.
Why should players have to do this though when it is the UO TEAM that should shoulder the weight of this responsibility? Seriously, it just encourages more laziness on their part.
I was understanding Canery's point somewhat, but what you have written is simply not true. I visit these forums from work nearly every day as a guest. Moreover, as a reporter first for the UOLedger, and now for Stratics, I meet new people on Atlantic on a weekly basis. I've yet to run into anyone who has never heard of Stratics.
I can agree that some folks may not have heard of Stratics. Although I think most folks have heard of Stratics, I'll admit that it's possible that most have not. However, the two paragraphs quoted above - particularly the "no guest feature" and "less than 10%" clauses - are fabricated and absolutely false.
The no guest function was not part of the Stratics discussion - it was the competitors website. You HAVE to have an account to log in to the forums - period. Secondly, I didn't list the 10% as a given statistic, but as a personal gut feeling, based on 13 years of MMO gameplay, through 4 major, and multiple not so major games.
Things taken out of context are bad, umkay? Considering you don't have a Stratics tag, should I presume your statement that you are a reporter here is fabricated and absolutely false? Or is it that your style of reporting is more Enquiresque than, say, WSJ?
It's responses like yours, which call people outright liars, while taking their posts out of context, that drive people from participating here, and the word spreads. If you are honestly just missing your tag, then congratulations. You are one of those few that make the badmouth on the Stratics staff ring true, regardless of if it is or not.
This is my staff account.
You are going to post make believe statistics and then accuse me of taking things out of context? Really?
Meanwhile, since we're talking journalistic standards, I'd just love to hear an explanation about how scientific it is for a poll to be conducted by a competing forums community.
I am not a reporter for a different community - UO or otherwise. I am a player. And unless I missed it, UO doesn't have in-game surveys, so I am now left to question that aspect about you as well. Common sense would have told me that someone was talking about a different GAME - especially given the fact that the word CORPORATE was mentioned. Not a fan site, which Stratics (at least according to some of the mods, is nothing more than) is. An official, run by the company, website, with forums, actual q/a forums for the devs and community to participate in... you know, those things that EA/Mythic DON'T offer?
And your seeming inability to differentiate between opinion, which I offered, re: the actual number of UO players that visit here - vs fact, which I again offered, as proffered by the company in question (in this case, one of the Sony Online Entertainment subsidiaries - you're a *reporter* - find it yourself) speaks volumes to *integrity*.
While Stratics may not be the *OFFICIAL* UO/EA/Mythic forums (which is open to debate), it is the de facto official forums for UO, much to the chagrin of more than a few people. If you are going to call someone you don't know, on a topic you obviously have no knowledge about, a liar, than yes, your integrity is in question, and since you have an *official staff* tag, it calls into question the integrity of Stratics in general. You are supposed to be a representative - a little courtesy towards others, and maybe a question on the topic, vice just calling someone a liar, would go miles to building some goodwill - because outside of these forums, cesspool of inequity is one of the nicer things said about this site. And not just uo.stratics.
Once again, g'day.
Within this thread, I have mentioned the following: a) everyone I have met has visited Stratics and b) I think that most UOers have heard of Stratics. You responded as follows:
I disagree with this statement. You are free to go on about your "13 years of MMO gameplay, through 4 major, and multiple not so major games," but I think you underestimate the caliber of folks who post here. There are many players who have been devoted MMOers for over a decade, myself included. Moreover, these players are smart. I don't think anyone's buying your studies and statistics.
Lastly, you are not understanding the difference between calling someone's "facts" into question versus calling someone a "lier". Calling facts in to question is what people do on forums. It is important that you understand this difference when posting on forums, or you will take all opposing views as personal attacks.
I never called you a lier, I said that the facts you were posting were untrue. In response, you have said:
This statement is so blown out of proportion, it is laughable. If you cannot help but receive every viewpoint that differs from yours as a personal attack, and if you respond with sweeping attacks calling people's very character into question, your forums experience is going to be marred by a great deal of anger and sadness.
*nods* UO and Stratics is serious business. *tries to keep a strait face*
lol, sorry. I have trouble backing down.
*runs off to munch more meds*
lol... Galen thinks I got pissed off... I mean... rofl... wthman !
We're the first community... the first "global community feeling" has happened right here, back then. People from all around the world... in one place.
It started with the AMT, then it spread like love finding a new field to reap. I have seen it, and the magnitude of this event and it's repercussions for humankind are not to be underestimated.
I'm not going to mince semantics with you. It's simply not worth the effort, and as the saying goes, never the 'tween shall meet.
The only time I have been saddened by anything relating to forums was to come back, after a hiatus overseas in the military, to find that my account, and multiple hundreds of posts related to crafting, Ren, T2A, etc, had disappeared completely. I'm sure if I took the time to go through the thousands of posts now authored by "Guest", I would find my postings. Again, that's not worth the effort, as the information is outdated by at least 5 years, at the youngest, to almost 10, at the oldest. I didn't gripe, nor complain - the answer to what happened was available here, and the staff can't be held accountable for the inadequacy of the then host. In other words, I have been here a while, even if not continuously. This is not my first rodeo, nor my first ride on the bull that is Stratics.
And I never underestimate the caliber of people I am dealing with, and I will agree with you that, for the most part, the participants are smart, even if, on occasion, they prefer not to show that fact.
Last point, and I will let the topic drop.
may not be directly calling someone a liar, but it doesn't leave much (any?) wiggle room for another option. It was certainly enough to raise my hackles. It would have been far simpler, and far more appropriate, to just state that you disagree, and ask for facts and figures, or produce your own. I will admit that all either of us has introduced directly is anecdotal evidence (I, for one, won't even to pretend to have spoken to everyone on LS, and, more realistically, less than 2 dozen since I have been back in game, let alone brought up Stratics as a point of conversation). I'm not the social butterfly type - the guild I ran with, and the players that were in it, are long gone, so I run mostly solo - I do what I want to do, and then I log off.
So, at this point, I'll abide a let's agree to disagree, and go on with life. I'm sure that at some point, we'll butt heads again - it's entertaining, and a pleasure to debate/argue with someone that can actually spell and knows that grammar isn't their ma or pa's momma. Let's just pick a more defendable topic next time, as neither of us can provide anything beyond anecdotal evidence about the UO playerbase.
But I have to say this. Stratics has MASSIVE entitlement issues with its management that its never been able to overcome. They like to censor those whose opinions of the Dev Team's abilities tend to range from the poor to the 'WTF?!'
Mythic needs to grow a pair and host their own forums, not rely on "volunteers" to run their unoficially official forums. They need them to communicate with their players on a DAILY basis.
No more of the piecemeal garbage thats gone on since SA released. The "Ask the Devs" forum might not be the massive joke that it is if there had been more than 27 posts during the SEVENTY-THREE DAYS its been 'active'. (Since this was post layoffs....)
'Ask the Devs' = Epic Fail.
Yea.... maybe... but you could have said like... 50%... 10% is not even realist.
Seeing the game is almost empty, and the quantity of posts of "old player coming back" in the shard forums... well I'd say 90% knows about stratics. Those that don't participate don't understand what UO is, period. Lurkers be lurkers...
And besides, the host was not incompetent, it was hacked, I know exactly why and by whom but I am not allowed to talk about it here.
You have to understand the nature of public relations at EA...
Origin made every villain in their games "EA like" just because they knew it was going to take them over, if WE did nothing...
see what happens now ?
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