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At least one cause of Monger Reputation Loss...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by SashaSeeks, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. SashaSeeks

    SashaSeeks Seasoned Veteran
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    I believe I have verified at least One Cause of losing reputation with fish mongers.

    (I thought I would try dropping off to multiple mongers at a time again, instead of one after the other, and alas, I have reputation drop again!!)

    I currently have the following orders for ROCK LOBSTER in my hold. I will list them in the order that I recieved them.

    1. From Skara to VESPER
    20 spiney
    10 ROCK LOBSTER
    15 crusty
    15 rainbow
    20 blue gill

    2. From Trinsic to Moonglow
    15 ROCK LOBSTER
    10 red grouper
    NO problem so far...



    But now with order #3...
    3. Floating Docks to VESPER
    5 ROCK LOBSTER
    10 cape cod
    10 yellow fin
    20 red belly

    So my theory is since I did not deliver order #1 to Vesper that contains rock lobster, then when I picked up another order going to Vesper with the rock lobster again, the system "thinks" that I must have dumped my order for the original order #1 with 10 Rock Lobster as it has not been delivered yet, but is simply still sitting in my hold.

    So I'm also guessing that for now, if you simply do your orders one by one, as tedious as that is, you may not get the reputation loss???

    Luckily I did not have another order in between going to Vesper for:
    spiney
    crusty
    rainbow
    blue gill

    Or else I suspect those also would have dropped to 5 if they were designated for Vesper.
     
  2. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    You need to think of the fish monger reputation like the BOD system. Just because my Smith/Tailor is Legendary does not mean I will always get high-end bods, it just means I get a little better chance at getting them.

    When you go to a fish monger to get a quest RNG rolls to see how many lines you get based on your reputation. Lets just say you have max reputation so you could get a quest up to 6 lines. You are not guaranteed 6 lines, just the chance to get it.

    So it rolls a 4 and now it rolls for fish/crab/lobster type and lets say your fishing skill is 100 so you could get 4 different types of fish/crab/lobster. OK it rolled lobster, now it rolls type of lobster, 6 different types.

    It rolled Rock Lobster and let us again say you have max reputation for Rock Lobster.

    Now it rolls for quantity and you have a chance of 4 quantities 5, 10, 15 or 20 you could get. It rolled a 5, just because you could get max 20 doesn’t mean you will get 20.

    It is all random from number of lines, type of fish/crab/lobster and the quantity you get.


    Now lets say you never turned down any quests and completed everyone and all you were getting 5 quantities on every line on every quest then I would say you lost reputation some how.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    While I can understand that "occasionally" one would get a low end order, what I cannot find a logic for is when I get 4-5 low end orders (1 liners or 2 liners with 5 or 10 quantities) in a row.

    I mean, I am closing to about 800 charges per bait which means I have done my good share of orders, I have never ever dropped or refused any order and yet, "assuming" that for my level skill (105) my reputation is topped, how is it possible that I get so many low end orders one after the other, all in a row??.

    I am not sure what it may be, but there has to be a very good reason involving loss of reputation that gets me to be offered so many low end orders all at once.

    What triggers it, I have no clue.

    But it does annoy me a LOT since if I keep being pushed back in my reputation by whatever bug is out there.

    I do not know others, but when I invest my time working on something, I like to see myself going forward, advancing, not being pushed back all of the time....
     
  4. Espilce

    Espilce Guest

    Fairly certain that you should never have orders for 5 fish unless you have had a loss in reputation for that fish type. They start at 10, then 15, then 20and then restart back at 10.

    If you have a pending order for say 10 King Crabs, if you get another order for King Crabs your reputation will take a hit and it will be for only 5 King Crabs.

    The only time that I have had an order for only 5 fish was when I tried to do multiple orders. Now I fill my fishmonger quests one at a time.
     
  5. SashaSeeks

    SashaSeeks Seasoned Veteran
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    I understand the number of lines of fish vary. No Problem there. But you should ONLY get an order for ONLY 5 of a fish-type IF you had loss of reputation. If you track your orders, it will ALWAYS start for an order of 10, then progress to 15, then 20, then back to 10,15 20 and continue this same sequence, UNLESS something causes a reputation loss, such as cancelling an order, or one of the random bugs out there.

    And yes it is back to single orders for me until they get it fixed.
     
  6. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Popps I know you use to do BODs, tell me why you got so many ****ty bods before you get a good one.

    Our reputation started at 10 max (a gift from the Devs). They never said you couldn't get one for less then 10. I know for a fact when this first started I was doing them 1 at a time and never refused or cancled any quests and I would get 5s now and then.

    We are talking the RNG here and your reputation sets your max not your min.

    I think people are putting to much into this reputation thing when in fact it is all up to RNG and if you have been playing UO any time at all you know for a fact that the RNG never likes anyone.
     
  7. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
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    based on te devs explaination in these forums last week about reputation... you should only go back down to orders of five after going past them if you drop quests or in theory have the system think you dropped a quest. Awesome Beta test on this. Scrolls arent dropping above 5's and rep is busted for multi questers.
     
  8. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Really makes you wonder about us as Players though doesnt It?

    I mean what Other company can release a product full of Bugs and malfunctions, like ours loves to do, without going completely bankrupt and out of business nearly instantly, except EA. (Because we keep thinking they might change their ways and Improve)

    I hate us.. :stir:
     
  9. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I believe that if you speak to a fishmonger for whom you have an order, without having completed that order, you are considered to have failed the quest.
     
  10. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That is what I do all of the time, multiple orders......

    I mean, what is the point of doing 1 order, say, to trinsic when at the same time I can have 3 or 4 all going to trinsic be done ?

    Why should I be penalized for carrying out orders originating in different towns and yet, all going to the same one destination ?

    I do not see the point why the game engine should penalize my reputation when I am satisfying multiple orders all at once for the same destination.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Didn't Mark_of_Mythic say that he checked and verified that merely talking to fishmongers does not lower one's own reputation ?

    I am confused, which is which ?
     
  12. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I'm not sure why, but I've been doing one order at a time all the way through and my order quantities have been rising steadily and consistently so far. Starting at 10 and now I'm getting orders for 15's and 20's and multiple item orders. I haven't seen a 5 order yet. I'm sure Mark mentioned that there was a bug that might be affecting players who have run the quests for longer, which may be why as a newbie I'm getting on better. No idea. But I am a relative newbie to the quests so either I haven't been kicked by the RNG monster or the newness is a factor. *shrugs*

    The only thing I've done so far is take one order at a time, I never refuse or abort and I don't speak to any NPCs while I have a pending order. I fill the order, go to the drop off location, then hand it in and take the next one. I thought that if I took on an order while the existing one hadn't been finished, maybe the NPC would drop my reputation because it had failed. Not because I saw it mentioned anywhere, that's what I thought might happen so I restricted myself to the 1 order at a time from the beginning.

    I'm keeping notes of my quests so I'm curious how things will go from here on.

    Wenchy
     
  13. SashaSeeks

    SashaSeeks Seasoned Veteran
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    So far, it has been while doing the multi quests that I tend to see some of my fish orders drop to 5. When I was doing single quests, I had not noticed a drop to a 5 at all. But to try and not drop my reputation, I'm back to the darn ol single orders yet again.


    I did recieve another 105 ps. Funny thing is, it was for order #3 that I described in above post.

    5 Rock Lobster
    10 cape cod
    10 yellow fin
    20 red belly

    Going from Floating Docks to Vesper.
     
  14. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    did you get the #1 and #2 orders out of order?
    maybe you picked up #2 first and then #1 and then #3
    if that was the case as I stated before everytime you get multiple orders of the same fish you always get -5 on your order.

    so for yours it would be
    #2 15
    #1 10
    #3 5


    Lorddog
     
  15. Espilce

    Espilce Guest

    Doing the fishmonger quests one at a time is really not that bad. You can recall to the monger as soon at you enter the subserver.

    Jhelom, Trinsic, and Skara Brae are on the same subserver. This helps alot, cause sailing to the Skara Brae docks just plain sucks.
    Moonglow and the Sea Market are on another subserver.
     
  16. Espilce

    Espilce Guest

    Hehehe, I think they are both wrong :p

    If you talk to a fishmonger that you already have an order for, he will just tell you to fill it. You can still complete the order with no reputation loss.

    If you talk to a fishmonger that you don't have an order for, he will try to give you a new quest. When you accept this new quest: If any of the new fish are currently on any of your pending orders, your reputation will go down for that fish type.

    Reputation is based on your completed and pending orders, by each fish type.
     
  17. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    You're misunderstanding me. It's not the fishmonger that gave you the quest, you're right, he'll just tell you to deliver it. It's the fishmonger the quest is destined for. I arrived in Papua to deliver a quest, but forgot to put the fish in the box. The Papua monger offered me a new quest, but the quest he offered me was for 5 pike.
     
  18. SashaSeeks

    SashaSeeks Seasoned Veteran
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    The quests I have posted are in the correct order. I started keeping a log of quests, when I started seeing problems, so I could try to figure out WHAT was causeing the discrepancies.
     
  19. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    I decided to put the single order theory to the test last night. I accepted and delivered orders one at a time starting with no orders. Here are my results:

    order
    #1 - 20 crusty lobster, 10 captain snook
    #2 - 15 dungeness crabs, 20 bonefish, 15 gray snapper, 10 red grouper
    #3 - 20 rock lobster
    #4 - 10 apple crab, 15 pumpkinseed sunfish, 10 bluefish
    #5 - 10 rock lobster, 10 snow crab (THEORY SHOT DOWN)
    #6 - 15 shovel-nose lobster, 10 redbelly bream
    #7 - 20 hummer lobster, 15 rock lobster

    Other items of interest. I have been starting with 8 new orders and filling as much as I can wherever I can to minimize sailing. I have been getting multiple 5 line orders and many orders with quantities of 20. I never canceled a quest. A few days ago I decided to turn in my last 8 orders and not accept any new ones so I could clear my hold. Outfitted my ship with cannons and tried doing a little pirate hunting. After reading this thread I decided to take up questing again. The orders I got above were no where near as good as what I was getting.

    I don't know what is broken or not broken, but then neither do the Devs.
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmm.........

    "If any of the new fish are currently on any of your pending orders, your reputation will go down for that fish type".

    Is that intended or a bug ?

    Because if that is intended, then this means that basically there is no point in taking more than 1 quest at a time since chances are, when taking multiple orders, that some of them may have the same fish/crab/lobster and thus bring a reputation loss.

    But that is very unfortunate, because I appreciated loading up like 5 or 6 orders all for floating docks, for example, and then sail there fill the orders and then get the rewards.

    But I suspect I am taking a hell of a reputation loss for doing this so, I guess, I will need to stop doing multiple quests all for the same delivery location.

    It would be nice to see if this is the reputation loss that is happening and if so, if this is intended or a bug.
     
  21. Espilce

    Espilce Guest


    The quantities recieved per fish type will go from 10/15/20 then reloop again 10/15/20. You do not stay at 20. I believe this is what the developers intended.

    Doing multiple orders will cause the quantities on the duplicate fish types you have orders for, to go down instead of up. Does it go down by 5 or by 50%??? I have only had 10's go down to 5's. Will a 20 go down to 15 or 10 or 5??? anyone know???
     
  22. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Just to add another piece of information to the reputation loss issue........

    I took an order in Moonglow to deliver to Trinsic :

    - 10 Apple Crab
    - 20 Crusty Lobster
    - 15 Gray Snapper
    - 20 Bluefish

    While on my way to Trinsic, coming from Moonglow, I hit Vesper and Britain waters.

    Clearly, being around those places, I stop by to see if they have orders to offer me.
    I have not yet hit Trinsic so, while I have filled up that crate, I have not yet delivered it.

    So, with the Trinsic crate pending, in Britain I get offered the following order to deliver to Moonglow :

    - 15 Cape Cod
    - 5 Gray Snapper
    - 20 Bonito

    Clearly, I have taken a reputation loss over the Gray Snapper since I took an order with them before doing the Trinsic delivery.

    This means, though, that taking multiple orders while one goes by makes no sense as it prompts to take reputation losses a go-go.

    I am closing to 1,000 charges on several baits types meaning, that I have done TONS of quests. My reputation should be so high that I should not see a 5 quantity order any longer, period. If I am getting them, means something is damn wrong, IMHO.

    Unfortunately, multiple orders is what I have been doing for weeks now since my habitual fishing playing was to take multiple orders as I went by. I reckon now that I have been shooting myself in the foot taking reputation losses all the time, by doing that.

    I would have wished that the Developers had told me not to as now I feel I have wasted my time foolishingly, all for nothing........

    As fishing currently is, IMHO, it just makes no sense to take more than 1 order at a time.

    Added Note.
    As a confirmation to my above suspects, after I went to Trinsic to do my delivery I got offered a new order.
    Now, keep in mind that I have not yet delivered my Moonglow Order (the one with the 5 Grey Snappers...)

    Now, the new order is a delivery to Papua for the following :

    - 10 Spiney Lobster
    - 10 Crusty Lobster
    - 5 Cape Cod
    - 10 Mahi-Mahi
    - 15 Blue Grouper
    - 10 Walleye

    As you can see, now this time I got the reputation hit over Cape Cods.......

    No wonder I was getting bad rewards doing multiple orders, I got hit for weeks with reputation losses left and right because of this nonsense.

    As I said, I wished I hed been told this by the Developers and not to play multiple orders at once as it would have saved me frustration and waste of time doing 1 order at a time......

    If I think of all the time spent into fishing or trapping for crabs and lobsters only to fill in orders penalized by this, I get sick......

    By the way, has it been coded like this as a feature or is it a bug?

    I mean, not being able to take multiple orders all at once is a feature limitation or not intended ?
     
  23. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    As much as I understand your frustration, but you have known weeks ago that the fishing quests were not working as intended. If you still continue doing those quests it is your own fault, in my opinion.

    Of course more feedback from the developers would have saved some people a lot of time they wasted. But playing the surprised victim isn't fair either, since the quest issues have been discussed for many weeks on the fisherman board.
     
  24. Umfufu

    Umfufu Journeyman
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    On the other hand, it is good that players keep experimenting.
    Eventhough stuff is mentioned sometimes, it is nice to figure out what is wrong and try to reproduce the error so it can be made clear to the devs.

    As I see it, the devs think the reputation thing is working as intended, and IF something goes wrong it is a bug.

    Maybe they can fix it sooner if they read the players experiences, testing and results.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I posted a while back that there were problems with the fishing quests' system.

    I was yelled at by some that it was yet another "useless" post of mine and the thread was closed.

    As I understand, the problem ackowledged was mainly about 120 fishing scrolls and infact, if I recall it right, the reviewing was intended for 120 fishing PS.

    There were rumors, "feelings" from players but nothing black on white to be certain about that the system was broken beyond the 120 fishing PS.

    We cannot see the code so, as players, we have no clue whether something is working as intended or not. The only ones who can tell us are the Developers.

    I wished that weeks back we had been told what we had better not to do in order not to waste our time on a broken system.

    I am not complaining about the time needed for a fix. I can understand that this may take time, especially if it needs to be done right.

    What I am upset about, is the lack of an official advice of what players should have better refrained to do, as in regards to playing the fishing quests, because something was broken, in order for them (the players...) not to waste their time doing something wrong which would cost them loss of reputation and thus receive worse, not better orders, regardless of their efforts and time spent in the fishing quests system.

    I do not know others, but my time is all precious and I simply cannot afford to waste any of it doing useless (actually penalizing..) things in the game.

    At least, that's how I see it.
     
  26. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    OP already addressed this theory, but yeah, fishmonger quests are NOT like the BOD system ... if you succeed, the quantity should go up. Lines vary, but quantity should not.

    Thanks to the OP for confirming multi isn't good. I've just stopped myself, and will go on from there.
     
  27. popps

    popps Always Present
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    As I stopped doing multi-orders and started taking it 1 at a time I have stopped getting 5 quantities orders which were screwing up all my rewards (and wasting my fish/crabs/lobsters...).

    It really is annoying to have to do all of the sailing, especially for orders going back and forth Papua, just for 1 single order at a time rather than for a group of orders, but what can I do ? As things stand now I do not seem to have much of an option as I do not want to loose any reputation....
     
  28. Sellingahouse

    Sellingahouse Seasoned Veteran
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    A little over 3 weeks ago I stopped doing multi quest and started doing one at a time. Some of my bait charges are over 2k. My last quest rewards are book, trap, pole, 35 biat, 20 bait, trap, 10 bait. The dev guy said the problem was with people doing quest for a long time, thats me. I was going to take fishing and trade to a different toon but im at 110 fishing and would lose my +10 so Im not doing that. I hope they say something today, we have thanksgiving this week so im sure they are getting it off and we only have a few day until we would be waiting til next week for a reply.
     
  29. Ralco

    Ralco Guest

    Can you expand on this please? Why do you feel this way? What evidence do you have to support your feeling?

    Question for everyone: Is there one reputation pool or do you have reputation with each monger? Please include sources.
     
  30. SashaSeeks

    SashaSeeks Seasoned Veteran
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    Ralco, in answer to your post:

    [​IMG] Re: Merely "talking" to Fishmongers drops one's reputation with them ?
    Talking with fishmongers does not affect your reputation. Refusing quests from fishmongers does not affect your reputation with them. If it does, it's a bug.

    The only thing that hurts your rep is dumping their crates overboard.

    Your reputation is shared among all fishmongers. For a small peek at the design, as your character gets orders for fish, there is a record of those fish attached to your character. That list has data attached to it like how many times you have completed orders with that fish. When you talk to another fishmonger, he can check that list. That list is used to calculate your "reputation".

    Please keep in mind that reputation is not actually an integer, the design goal was to emulate running a pro fishing business. No matter who you are in the fishing world, sometimes you get small orders. If you turned in every possible fish 6 times each in various orders, your chance to get a 6 line order would be 1/6.

    With that in mind, certain rewards are only available to small orders and certain rewards are only available in large orders. An effort was made to make the small order rewards valuable but give incentive to advance. Large orders don't just give you the same stuff in larger quantities.

    Each fish increments or decrements in quantities seperately. If you have done a ton of orders but have never rolled a cobia before, then it will be an order for 10 cobia.

    The rewards for the fishing quest are designed for people who like to fish. The "real" money in the fishing quest are the baits that make catching enchanted fish a reasonable goal. Once people start figuring out what the new fish pies do and how they stack with other buffs, I expect you will make a lot of coin fishing them up.


    The above was posted by Mark Mythic in "meerly speaking to a monger drops your reputation.

    It was posted by Devs elsewhere that your reputation drops to 5 when canceling a quest. I can post it later when I have time to find it. From what I gather the devs are saying that the only thing that will drop your reputation is if you cancel an order. But what we are in fact seeing is a different matter.

    (I believe it was FAQ Fri a couple of weeks ago where they mentioned that reputation will drop to an order of 5 fish when a quest is canceled.)
     
  31. popps

    popps Always Present
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    To my experience, this is not correct.

    I have learned to my own expense (unfortunately...) that "if" I have accepted (NOT refused....) an order and "while it is pending" (but not yet delivered) I accept another order from another fishmonger, "if" the second order pulls fish, crabs or lobsters which are also included in the first, pending order, I take a reputation loss on that second order and get hit with 5 quantities which, of course, penalize my chance at a better reward. The effect is of course worsened when taking multiple orders because the chances to have same fish/crab/lobster type in following orders increases and so, the penalty hit to a 5 quantity which kills the hopes to a better reward.

    So, I learned that dumping a crate overboard is NOT the only thing which causes a drop of reputation, there is MORE that can hurt a player's reputation with the fishmongers.


    That is also my findings, see above......
     
  32. SashaSeeks

    SashaSeeks Seasoned Veteran
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    Ralco,
    Here is the other part of the info you were looking for...

    [​IMG] Re: FishMonger Reputation
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by soulstoner [​IMG]
    How does the reputation work with the Fish Monger quests?
    Will there be a way to view one's reputation?
    How much is lost by dropping a quest?


    -------------Gone Fishing <{///}<


    Shade:
    • You gain reputation by completing orders. The more orders you complete, the better chance that when a fishmonger has a big order, they will give the business to you. The maximum possible quantity requested for any line item is 20. The maximum number of line items is 6. This means, that the largest possible order can contain 120 fish. The rewards change with the size of the order. Some rewards are exclusive to certain order size brackets.
    • As in life, your reputation with the fishmongers is not quantifiable in a single number like a stat. If you want to see how good your reputation is, see how many big orders you have in your hold.
    • If you drop a fishmonger quest, you drop a reputation level on each of the fish in the order. If you have a quest for 10 haddock and you drop the quest, the next time a fish monger asks you for haddock you will be asked for 5. It can never go lower than 5. The quantity levels are 5, 10, 15, 20 but you start at 10. There is no other penalty, so don’t worry if you have to dump your orders to dry dock you ship. However, know that being fickle will hurt your reputation in UO as it does in life.

    __________________
    James Nichols
    Assistant Community Manager
    Mythic Entertainment | An EA Studio
    Follow me on Twitter! @JamesMythic
     
  33. SashaSeeks

    SashaSeeks Seasoned Veteran
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    Pops, I don't believe Mark Mythic said he checked it, I think he merely said it is not supposed to work that way.