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Auto logging pets. PVP Tamer...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by puni666, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Does anyone else see a problem with players that have been killed logging to save there pets to save them from losing stats and having to res them since they more then likely don't have the veterinary skill? This is mainly concerning the pvp portion of tamers in UO.

    Seems like it really shouldn't work that way right?

    Maybe if the pet was a ghost it should be stabled (to reduce server lag which was the original intention of this pet logging thing), but if not it should have to suffer the normal skill reductions of being killed since there owner's not there to protect/heal it THEN stabled.

    I think changing it would have good effects on pvp (so would fixing speeder/3rd party programs, but I'm not talking about that) since these ... skillful tamers... would be spending a lot of time retraining there pets. There should really be a downside to having a powerhouse pet like a dread mare or w/e you choose to use.
     
  2. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Perhaps if the owner is "flagged" it shouldn't auto stable....

    But in Trammel... really.... it's fine. Leave it alone...

    Much like the waiting to time out because I happen to kill a stinking Mongbat on my way inside to switch characters...

    Really? Is that totally necessary?? I can see in Fel where if you are "flagged" or had been fighting you might need to "time out" before swapping characters... but in Tram???? Why???? Seriously.

    Needs removed.
     
  3. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I could care less about the tram rule set with pets. That's why I said it was mainly the PVP aspect of things. Keep it the same in tram for all I care.
     
  4. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Why does it matter, your after the player, not the pet. Do you kids sit around all day working on things to complain about?
     
  5. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    It's more or less a way to possibly detour people from playing a skill less template to playing a more skillful one. Nothing super drastic but possibly a draw back that might make a player think twice on if they really want the ability to have the massive DPS a tamer character puts out.

    And yes it does matter.. have you fought a trained dread mare and then a untrained dread mare or super dragon? There's a huge difference depending on the pets skill level.
     
  6. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    You killed the tamer, wasn't that the point of the excercise?
     
  7. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    The true victory is not just killing the tamer, it is also killing the pet.
     
  8. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Exactly, it is actually easier to kill the tamer then the pet. alot of tamers will die with a gdragon in a spawn area, and let the thing wreak some havoc on AoE spell casters until its redlined, then just logout. Its annoying to say the least.

    Although, i have to assume chucko plays a dread mare mage.
     
  9. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Really, who cares. In pvp the tamer dies, logs to prevent their "weapon" from losing stats. If every time the archer died his bow lost 0.1 in di/hld/hl/hf, etc. then it's balanced.

    If pets stopped losing their trained skills every time they die, then the incentive to log/auto-stable is gone. Just rez it up.

    If you're upset cause some peeps run a tamer template with Lore, Tame, and no Vet then bring up a thread advocating for a change to requirements for skills in taming/controlling a pet.

    But if you advocate for that, be prepared.. as some tamers might find needing to invest say 360 skill points to run a pet that has been nerfed to uselessness rather unbalanced and call for either a buffing of say gd's or a nerfing of say dps of bows, blades, spells, etc.
     
  10. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    That's not balance at all.

    And if they did stop losing there skill that's fine. I want to still be able to kill the mount so that player won't be able to get ressed up somewhere else in the dungeon or spawn and then relog and have a fresh pet to do their work again. They'll need to exit where ever they are and have someone else res there pet since they don't have the skills required to tend to the pet. Kind of like me dying on a dexer.. I don't have alchemy or regs so I can't just make pots on the fly.. I have to leave and restock therefore taking more time to effectively rejoin a fight.
     
  11. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Uhhh, just have a Mage invis you? Or kill the pet. Or get it killed by spawn. Or honestly who cares??? The tamer is dead, and more than likely has to restock a box, potions and whatnot anyhow. The .1 skillloss isn't that big a deal, I mean your gonna die just as fast to a dreadmare that is 99.9 down the board if you are honestly worried about the same pet at all gm.
     
  12. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    How many pvp oriented people do you know like to stop pvping to res someone elses pet because they don't have vet to res there own pet? On top of that when the pets skills start lowering significantly like to the 80's and lower 90's who really wants to go train a red pet for hours pvming? There needs to be a good drawback for high DPS pets.

    Making a tamer actually maintain there pet? Hmm... that's totally unreasonable! Or not dying I guess would be the other solution.
     
  13. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    It's simple balance... If The Tamer doesn't have the option of instant loggin out of the game world with no consequences then neither should his pets... I can't count the number of times I've killed a Dreadmare archer or G. Drag tamer & been fighting someone else with the pet hitting me & finally turn on the pet to have the ghost instant log it redlined to avoid it's statloss... If the the pet Has taken dmg from a PLAYER in 30 seconds or so it shouldn't be able to instant log.
     
  14. maroite

    maroite Guest

    High DPS pets? ... My Dragon hits for 36 on most people, and thats with 129.8 wrestling and 119.5 tactics and 750 str.

    An archer can hit me for the same amount while mounted and moving and thats with me having 74 in all resists. Doesn't get stuck on stupid terrain, and isn't run by AI. Also doesn't "lose skills" or anything else because they died except for insurance, which a tamer loses anyway. A tamer loses everything a dexxer/mage/archer loses PLUS if their pet dies it loses skills.

    How is that fair? Its not. You're delusional if you think it is.

    I'll tell you what, if the devs give pets intellegent AI and improve pathing 3000 fold, I wouldn't mind a change to logging out to save a pet.

    Also, give GD's teleport back so they don't get stuck on shrubs. rolleyes:

    I love how people who never have and probably never will play a tamer make comments about how tamers should be changed because they can't even play their own classes.
     
  15. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I don't believe tamers should be able to log out and save their pets from death, whether that's in PvP or PvM. I'm sentimentally fond of my pets, but if they die I don't hit the panic X. It's up to me to take care so they stay alive and I'm ok with the consequences if I fail. If a PvPer wants to kill them, fine. They're still bonded, so I just rez them. Skills need a bit of re-training? Well I'm going to want to get my insurance gold back anyway so I just take the pets out. To me it's just a cycle. If I don't want to do that stuff I can just use non tamer chars for PvP.

    The difficulty is, folks have been used to the logout panic button. There's going to be much more resistance to change. But I still hope it does get changed, I think it makes more sense than mid battle autolog.

    Wenchy
     
  16. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Agree with the OP 100%. Pet auto logging after death shouldn't be possible in PvP or Trammel Rulesets...
     
  17. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    this has been a problem forever and of course Dev do nothing about it.
     
  18. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    This isn't an issue which causes an unbalancing of the pvp fight. You don't get kill points or insurance gold when you kill the pet. There are some real and tangible negatives the tamers have to deal with.. which always seem to be ignored when someone starts posts like these.

    Don't like a ghost tamer leaving their pet around to auto attack? That's understandable, an archer can't have their bow continue to do indiscriminate damage to players while dead, a mage their spells. So propose that pets stop attacking when tamer dies. They can be defensive mode only (healing or attacking something doing direct damage to them). Until they are either auto-stabled with a log out, or commanded by a live tamer.

    But forcing tamers to restore effectiveness on their "weapons" when no other class is required to do so isn't balanced... and those 1-2 tamers that actually pvp might find it rather unfair.
     
  19. maroite

    maroite Guest

    It shouldn't even be an issue. Pets don't attack things when the tamer is dead, unless they're A. Attacked or B. the tamer stuck the pet on the person before they died.

    If you don't want a pet to attack you, go invis and clear the agro, then just leave the pet alone.

    Honestly, knowing that, this sounds like a "I want to be able to grief tamers after they die by killing their pets!" thread. Like Yalp said, you don't get anything for doing it so in the end all you are doing is griefing.

    Maybe the devs should just make pets auto stable when the tamer dies. Then the pets won't be able to continue attacking people. I don't get to stomp on peoples bows when they die to cause more durability damage, I fail to see why a tamers "weapon" should be subject to punishment after a tamer dies. Cause obviously that's fair. rolleyes:

    I don't mind my pet dying if I'm at fault but I fail to see how its fair that tamers are the only build which are subjected to being punished even more after dying. Especially when pets have been nerfed quite a lot in PvP and a Greater Dragon is about as good as an archer for damage, but much much slower.

    Tamers take Insurance hits, and durability, AND have pet stat/skill lose when they die. No other build has that, and honestly I don't even see why Pets lose skills when they die to begin with. Its silly.
     
  20. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
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    Hail,

    I know first hand the horrors some Tamers face at the death of a beloved Companion, some call this a pet.

    I have seen Tamers become physically ill over a death to their beloved Companion. I have known Tamers who lapsed into deep depression over loss of so beloved a Companion. Even lapsing into Coma's is not unknown.

    All such real life illness and danger to Players, as well as other considerations, led the beloved Dev's to add the method for saving these Beloved Companions from purposeless and unnecessary death.

    Only the pathologically disturbed or demented would call for, let alone demand for the senseless death of one's Beloved Companions.

    Let the OPer and the rest play and build their characters as they see fit, and let Tamers do the same. Surely, no amount of senseless, purposeless, perverse and sick pleasure on the part of Companion Killers (CK's) also known as sicko's, can be anywhere close to in balance to the real life physical and mental harm done to Tamers by the senseless and unnecessary deaths of their Beloved Companions.

    Leave well enough alone,

    Elladan of Baja on behalf of Players and Companions everywhere

    :)>7]
     
  21. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    You bonded with a pet saying you were gonna take care of it. It's not about punishing tamers more, it's about the fact that there should be a consequence for letting your pet down. You broke your side of the bargain and your pet is weakened as a result.

    I don't really care what the guy next to me loses when he dies, because I chose to take my tamer, I accept my "losses". I could use his template if I wanted to. That's how I see it.

    Other classes would also have their swampies etc left out in the open so in honesty if you couldn't autolog in battle, it wouldn't just affect tamers.

    Wenchy
     
  22. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    In RP circles we always talked about being knocked unconscious not death. Death means you're not there after a resurrection, which is the same way I think of it for pets. If I *really* lost one of my UO pets I'd be gutted, but I think all animal loving players who hunt with their pets should think unconscious and not dead.

    If you know folks who actually get depressed because of a pet death in UO then I would suggest you point them in the direction of some RL help to strengthen themselves up mentally and help them cope with loss. I'd be very worried about someone like that hitting a bad spell in RL if they feel so badly about a game pet. If I knew someone like that I'd be pulling them along to Buddhist meditation classes or something ;)

    Wenchy
     
  23. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    A pet should be held to the same standard as a player. If it is aggroed..no insta log.
     
  24. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Holy Crap Batman and Good Lord Almighty..if you actually know someone who is as you described;

    #1 It is demonstrative of what incredible damage reverse Darwinism is doing to our society.

    #2 That person or persons are in absolute need of the number to a good therapist. They have RL issues that need to be resolved.

    Good Heavens..I HOPE you were being sarcastic.

    All pets should be held to the same log out standard as any player.
     
  25. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
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    Hail,

    Since it appears you have at least limited intelligence, I respond. Of course I was being sarcastic. I found this topic and its origin to be absurd, worthy only of sarcastic replies.

    As to your points 1 & 2 I offer this:

    As it was Darwin who offered new theory, no such thing as "reverse Darwinism" exists. And since it is clear to me that you new my post was sarcasm, your 2nd point is moot and needs no response.

    Darwin is misunderstood as well as deliberately misquoted by most of the human race. This is a sad but natural by-product of the so-called progressive education system dominated by leftists and liberals.

    All of that said, there were numerous and well debated reasons for the pet auto-stable feature to have been implemented. None of those reasons have changed nor been diminished.

    Elladan of Baja



     
  26. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Wasn't it only implemented to reduce server lag from ghost corpses that had been littering UO facets for years? I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant to be used in abuse to save lame templates time and effort to keep there pets in tip top shape constantly.
     
  27. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    In all seriousness I believe auto logging was implemented because tamers cried because after they died there pets often werent where they left them and the gm pages were thru the roof because the tamers were too lazy or didnt wanna be res killed trying to retrieve thier pets. The whole auto logging feature was yet another poorly thought out attempt by EA to save money made at the expense of how the game SHOULD be. They need to either make pets not disapear when the tamer logs or make it so that the tamer has to actualy go to a stable to retrive thier pets. Id be fine if pets didnt lose skill points upon death in Fel but auto logging pets is just another Trammelization of the game that has no place in Fel. For crying out loud theres no need to even have a pet ball nowadays.
     
  28. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Wait...

    So when I die in the game, the pet is letting down their side of the bargain, and if I die BEFORE my pet dies, and then it dies, why should I be punished by my pet losing skills? I died first, and thus was the one let down by the pact of bonding, not my pet...

    Yeah, then reinstate GD's the way they were when they first came out.

    Teleporting, high damage melee and breath attacks. If they're held to the same standard as players they shouldn't be nerfed because players can't figure out how to not get killed by them.

    "nerf, nerf, nerf but make them work just like players!"

    rolleyes:
     
  29. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    you obviously never PvPed against a GD before the nerf. Getting hit by a 70 point fireball from 4 screens away was BS.
     
  30. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    You were lucky if 70 was all you got hit for!!!
     
  31. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Yeah, kinda like how getting hit for 35 damage every 2 seconds (not including the lightning proc) with all 74 resists is BS right?

    But I don't see people calling nerf to archers. rolleyes:

    If you want pets to be treated like players, then they need to also be as powerful as players. Which means that the top end pets should be able to solo players in PvP.

    Its also not like they were shooting fireballs every second.

    If you don't want them to be that "powerful", then you shouldn't say you want pets to be treated like PC's.
     
  32. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Ok, we're gonna go round in circles with this. Tamers are responsible for the situations they and their pets get into. You chose where you hunt rather than asking the dragon, right? If that situation gets either or both of you killed, there are penalties - your death resulting in insurance etc, theirs in skill loss.

    If the devs didn't want pets to die, they'd have given them invulnerable tags ;) I'd also bet money that most of the time autolog is used to save a pet from dying rather than to protect a pet when the player genuinely drops con or crashes. I believe that autologging should only kick in when players genuinely crash or drop connection, if they or their pets were fighting then they should remain in game until their aggro flagging wears off, then log out. Then tamers won't lose their pets if their connection dies, but they will have to take reasonable care when they hunt.

    Wenchy
     
  33. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Honestly? lol

    Stop rolling your eyes for a minute and you'll maybe start seeing things that happening in front of you.
     
  34. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    I would say pets should stay ingame as long as your character when the charcter is out of the world (same rules) the pet is also transfered to stable, not instant after logout!
     
  35. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    This issue is linked to the pet bug where your bonded pet can be permanently lost. Auto logging the pet is probably the dev's way of trying to protect pets from the petloss bug since they have been unable to fix petloss bug. It's just being used by people to log out to save their pet.

    The game doesn't know when you logged if it was beacuse you clicked the "X", you had a bonefied client crash, removed the network cable from your pc/router, if an internet backbone died, the UO network went down, or whatnot.

    Due to the pet loss bug, A solution would have to involve the pet still autostabling, but after a small amount of time.
     
  36. GL_Seller

    GL_Seller Guest

    You keep bringing up this crap about your dragon isnt as strong as an archer. You do realize its more powerful right? Unless ur not very smart its your dragon and YOU vs that archer. Dbl the output of dmg. Last i checked none of my characters were at 900 life. So yes it is just as powerful if not more. Unless of course you play a no skilled trammy in a bless suit who says all kill and dies in a exp fs....
     
  37. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Although the pet ghosts might have also been a reason for the auto logging of pets, I believe one of the main reasons was that in many cases, a bonded pet was lost when a tamers client crashed or was closed (computer freeze, blue screen of death, or whatever the reason). In this case, I guess the equivalent would be that upon logout, an insured weapon or artifact *poof* off of people.

    I am not sure there is a good fix for this problem that would not create many other cascading problems (providing the devs could even locate where the problem in the code was occuring and be able to fix it). Perhaps a pet auto-log timer be placed, where if the client comes back up within a couple of minutes, the pet is not logged, or if they stay down, the pet will auto log then, just not instantaneously (unless not in aggro).

    Again though, this might not be possible if it brings back the pet poofing bug.
     
  38. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    Your post is right on. On top of it the auto logging "feature" allows templates to bypass the vet skill making the character even more offensive. I get the fact that its fun having a dragon or whatever other pet munching on another player but at the same time its also fun killing a tamers pet. The tamer wants all the benefits without the drawbacks and autologging is simply a benefit that is exploited left and right.
     
  39. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Archers are not that OP, GD's are. They can bleed, fire breath, have 900 hp, and have a little guy with them that is either casting or shooting a bow at you. I can kill most archers 1v1, I can usually kill a tamer also, just takes longer and a couple off screens since I have a dragon or a mare eating my face. Also, I cant blood oath a GD.
     
  40. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Oh I can't wait to see GD's and Dreads skip off screen when they are nearly dead to return mere milliseconds later fully healed and buffed! I will be there in a heartbeat to take screenies... flash of dirt as the hooves kick up dust.:)

    ***is there a script that can be uploaded to get our pets to speed? pot chug? tbox? hmm.... (goes off searching)******
     
  41. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Hold up. Something is wrong here. You can kill most archers 1v1 and can usually kill a tamer as well. This means you don't lose too much. Wouldn't this mean that your particular template is overpowered to all the ones you leave dead?
     
  42. There is no such thing as a PvP Tamer. They and their animals belong in Trammel.
     
  43. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Yeah.. that's pretty much what I was trying to say. I just suck at wording things.
     
  44. I suppose you mean that ALL pets should be removed from Felucca? That would include horses, swamp dragons, lessser hiryu... faction war horses... crystal vollems... all summoned creatures... ethy ridables... golems...

    Pretty much anything that takes a pet slot. If you want to remove pets because you can't handle the tamers, you can't forget that your horse is a pet! After all, it's unfair that you should ride when you are fighting someone else on foot. You were talking about fairness right?
     
  45. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Did anyone say that? I read through everyone's posts today and I didn't see that once. You must have been reading a different thread.
     
  46. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Yeah... because you can't out run a dragon on a mount. You can't cast parafields/paralyze on the Tamer, which on most builds including pvp builds doesn't include resist spells.

    And its amusing that you even mention dragons health. I personally can kill a non tamed dragon in 2 minutes on my none SDI Mystic with only a dragon slayer book. It amuses me to no end that you people cry endlessly about a dragon which also can be taken down very easily by a RC. rolleyes:

    Unless someone else focuses on the target my dragon is on, its very rare that my dragon will take them down in PvP but that no different from any other template. If you get focus fired by people you should expect to die.

    Tamers have all of the drawbacks. We take durability hits to our armor. We take insurance hits. The pet is a tamers weapon. How about I get to break your weapon and make it do less damage everytime you die? As in, not durability, but the actual min/max damage on your weapons. Yeah you probably wouldn't be too happy with that.

    If you had any idea about taming you would see how worthless Vet is, even in a lot of PvM it can be pretty useless. But its obvious that the majority of "nerf tamers" doesn't have the foggiest. Vet is a situational skill, and rarely if ever do I use vet in PvP. And some how you think that making a tamer require 100 or so skill points dumped into vet for the sole purpose of being able to res their pet if and when the pet dies is fair?

    Thats like saying the devs should add a skill seperate from the weapon skills which you require at least 100 points to be able to reequip your weapon after dying. But of course you'll just say that stupid even though its exactly what you suggested with vet.

    I personally think it would be priceless to pick up an archers bow and turn it into kindling with a hatchet. I would even insure a hatchet just for that purpose, but unfortunately I can't do that.

    While were at it, how about we say that they do fix it, then they need to make bandages insurable. Why? Because it takes bandages to res a pet. No bandages and you can't res a pet, which means a tamer who relies on his pet in pvp will have to get bandages from someone else or potentially leave a spawn area to go res and then come back and some how you think thats fair? ... Yeah why not make all arrows/bolts drop to a corpse when someone dies in pvp reguardless of being inside a quiver or not.

    If you find one lemme know! :D lol


    seriously?... Post #42

    At least we know who fail at avoiding pets in PvP now...
     
  47. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Ill be honest i dont see what it would achieve.

    Exactly the same thing can be achieved by using a pet summoning ball. If the player is safe to log in and out after res then its safe enough for them to use a summoning ball...this would therefore negate any change you want to make...and now the insurance change, it only costs about 100gold to insure the things!
     
  48. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

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    If your dying so often that these things are big issues, I really don't think it's autologging that's the issue.

    In other words "I would rather not need vet skill for my tamer to PvP so I want the panic button so my pets never have to die." Really, just come out and say it. No need to write about how you haven't got a use for vet skill, really. Naturally vet is going to be "worthless" to you because you want to run a template that doesn't use it, so you have more power for PvP. You say vet is of situational use only, when what you're meaning is basically "I only *need* it if my pets die, so if I can prevent them dying I can live without vet skill." Again, just come out and say it straight. Vet isn't worthless, you just don't want it on your template, and it would clearly inconvenience you to have to rez a pet because it died.

    Um....right....all this because you don't want vet skill? Blimey.

    Wenchy
     
  49. I use an insured talisman of Bandage Summoning. I've always got 10 bandages in an emergency. So in a way, ya we do have insured bandages.
     
  50. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    The auto log "feature" was not put in the game to keep pets from dying. If it was the case, why were pet balls and bonding put in the game? Auto logging is flat out an abused exploit. It bypasses intended consequences and takes fun out of the game. People make it sound like a pet is worthless and and unarmed for pvp. Its quite the opposite, they are quite powerful(no problems there) and has a player with skills, weapons and abilities to aid it(again no problem). Its sad that this game has gotten to the point where people defend exploits left and right. Its also sad that the easier the game is made for players(again bonding, pet balls etc) the more people cry and abuse things.