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Discussion in 'UO Players Corner' started by Deaol, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    Haven't played in almost a decade, but decided to start up again.

    Played on a free shard to get the hang of things again before I took the plunge into the osi shards.

    And now that I am there (On Atlantic) I just got confused even more.. so much new material and im seeing new things every minute I play.. kind of exciting.. but when I first logged on a few players were giving me tips on what to watch out for.. saying the shard is full of hacks, bugs and exploits .. saying I shouldn't waste my time starting up.. can someone enlighten me on what they meant? I remember one of them saying watch out for getting insured hacked? .. I don't know.. nevertheless I don't want to start up again if this is the case.

    Economy seems inflated aswell.. :coco:

    I have read a few threads but thought I would ask..

    Anywho.. - Deaol.
     
  2. Kellgory

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    It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be, unless your into PVP. Then you will be running in to people using hacks and exploits pretty often (you will know it when you see it, if you know what can and can't be done in UO). There are a some bugs out there that haven't been fixed, such as insured items falling to corpse, but that is a pretty rare case which may be the reason they haven't figured what causes it to happen. There are those that still try to scam people using the same old tricks. My advice is if your going to buy something, have them put it on a vendor and watch out for vendors trying to pass off Valorite smithing hammers with 15 uses remaining as Valorite runic hammers.

    If your into PVM, then Atlantic is a great place to be with several guilds active in peerless, hunting, and adverturing.

    As far as prices goes, if your looking for Doom artifacts, they have dropped greatly from where they were a couple years ago. Some ML artifacts are still pretty pricey. Crafted items and jewerly in Luna on some vendors are waaay overpriced. I guess in the hopes that if they put a large price tag on it, someone will think it has to be the greatest thing since blue beetles and buy it.
     
  3. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    The number of hacks, bugs and exploits are greatly exaggerated. The only ones really in danger of losing anything are those that are the ultra-rich, or are themselves using illegal software. A normal player, especially a new one, has little to fear. there were a thousand times more hacks/exploits in the game when you left 10 years ago, than now.

    The economy is a bit inflated, especially in relation to the 1998-1999 era - but it's not that all bad. Atlantic seems to have the most inflated prices of the lot - and prices in the Luna, Yew Gate and Britain Gate areas are the worst on all shards (I've had things priced for 10k that wouldn't sell for months at my Yew home on Lake Austin, that sold for 1 million later in Luna).

    I suggest to stay away from hard-core PvP for the first year you're here. A lot of PvP is governed these days by items (many of them illegal dupes of one of a kind event items from before 2003, though legit versions of most of them will become available as "replicas" next publish), and typically it takes a while to accumulate the proper gear, AND that very gear makes you the target of the people using exploits to attempt to steal them from you. By fighting monsters (and crafting) for about a year, you can accumulate gold to buy the items you want (and maybe even make a few of them, for the craftables), and potentially get some of the artifact type ones as "drops" from the peerless and other spawns.

    You need to get the hang of combat vs. monsters (unless you do nothing but Yew Gate combat, PvP often involves raiding people in certain special creature spawn areas), and a working knowledge of all the systems added since The Second Age, before diving head-long into PvP - and unlike the old days, you can choose to never have to PvP at all. Also, look around on Atlantic (via the Atlantic forum) for the guilds that help new/returning players - NOT the active PVP guilds - for real advice on getting up to date on modern UO. The typical PvPer mindset is currently such that they know near-nothing about the game outside PvP. In fact, many of them insist it is the only purpose of the game, when it's actually a small, completely optional, fraction part of gameplay - and was accidental, to boot (Lord British, by his own admission, thought that PvP would only be used by a tiny group of people role-playing bandits when he and the other designers made UO). As a moderator of this forum and the one for the crafting skills, I've had PvPers insist that things still worked certain ways, that were changed 20-30 publishes (5-6 years)ago.
     
  4. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    Thanks for the prompt replies Kellgory and Basara.

    Yeah I have no intension's of getting into PvP, so I am glad to hear that that is where most of the hacked/exploited issues are based upon.

    I will have a peek over at the Atlantic shard sub section...

    When I originally setup my account , EA was able to resurrect my old one from the past, which I used on pacific, but that shard was ghost town, hence the reasoning for starting on Atlantic. Are most of the west coast shards dead?

    Cheers and thx again.

    Deaol
     
  5. I have some characters that would be happy to help ya out. If you see Duke III, Duke IV, Bob the builder, or Sir Death mention this post to make sure it is me since a few people have simialr charcter names. Most of those are legendary or gm crafters. I have a bit a stuff and don't mind donating to help out somone in need.
     
  6. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    YA LORD BRITISH WANTED EVERYONE TO WRITE AND RECITE POEMS IN GAME AND USE BOW/SALUTE MACROS AS DANCE-LIKE MOVES.

    PvM in this game is a joke. The loot is worthless. PvP is the only reason left to play.
     
  7. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Thank you for proving my point, Lynk.

    You want PvP - go play Quake 3 on a LAN.

    There's a lot more to the game than just PvP and PvM COMBINED. It's the interaction of players outside combat, that is the main draw for most players I know.

    I personally believe that PvPers and those that try to play UO as a single-person PvM game, are equally misguided. There's a reason why the letters MMO are in the term MMORPG - for that matter, those two playstyles ignore the RPG part of the acronym as well.
     
  8. sayler04

    sayler04 Guest

    Welcome Back to UO!

    There are always people, in anything we do, that talk about how X sucks and Y happens too much and Z is screwed up... notice how said people must be sticking around, or they wouldnt bve around to complain. And I'd bet said people say the same things about their jobs, their schools, the bars they hang out at, etc, but keep going to those too. Even these have their exploits, but its nothing to worry about. Be positive and make the most of it.

    Sure, inflation has occurred in the past few years, a testament to how realistic this game can get. Use it to your advantage, if you can, and gain a foothold by mining or farming leather. Small housing plots are easy to come by these days, too, and IDOCS are everywhere. All in all, i'd say UO is ready to be better than it eevr was, and i've been playuing more in the past year than I ever did in the old days. Again, have fun with it. I usually play characters Rhaegar, Aetun ben Gilead, Damphair or Valyria on Atlantic; if you see me, say hi n i'd be happy to lend a hand


    rage
     
  9. Malador

    Malador Guest

    Sorry Bud but after reading your post I have to respond to correct well everything you said.

    I have been playing this game since 97 and the number of hacks bugs and exploits in use to day far exceeds any peak in the past.

    You almost got this one right. There is no economy at all. An economy indicates supply and demand, production costs, a limit to money in circulation. None of these things have ever existed.

    All pvp is affected and dependent on the items you wear however you can buy anything you need and you dont have to be artied out to get started. You should jump into pvp right off and learn what you need to compete.

    The only thing left in this game is PVP. Anyone playing either pvp's or pvms to sell loot to pvp'ers or is too lazy to switch to wow.
     
  10. Nine Dark Moons

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    is it just me, or is everyone replying to posts on the boards today crankier than a wet cat...

    oh - welcome back deaol! i agree with basara. pvp is where most of the exploits/hacks/bugs are that a normal/every day player will encounter. everyone runs into them now and then, but not often. and yes, the economy is more inflated than when you left, but you can still put together a decent suit and get some decent weapons and supplies, especially if you join one of the guilds friendly towards new and returning players who are happy to help you out.

    and if you ever have a question regarding "if i do this/buy this/agree to this am i going to get scammed?" then just come back here and ask before doing/buying/agreeing to it :)

    oh - one more thing!!! DON'T JOIN A GUILD UNLESS YOU KNOW THEM AHEAD OF TIME OR KNOW WHAT THEY'RE ABOUT - one of the biggest scams new players fall into is "hey do you wanna join my guild" and you say "sure!" and the second you join, they kill you and take all your stuff. if you join a reputable guild, they won't do that. but if you join a guild, your fellow guildmates can kill and loot you (not sure if there's a setting for that). but i get asked to join guilds about once a month (usually by shady characters hanging out around new haven) and politely decline. some of my chars are already in guilds, but the rest aren't interested :) the Atlantic Board should have some good info on who the good guilds are and which ones help newbies. if they don't, then just ask.
     
  11. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Malador - thank you for your lack of insight. You start with a null concept, and continue on like your fantasy was reality. Very creative.

    The hack/bug problems are almost all centered on PvP (or getting high end items for PvP, in terms of those duping high end items and crafting tools) - which is why they seem so pervasive to you. Your argument therefore becomes circular - since PvP is the only thing that matters to you, the game is rife with cheating - because the one SMALL part of the game that is rife with cheating is the only part of the game that matters to you. It's a dizzying argumentive flaw, making your head spin like a park merry-go-round.

    Same thing goes for the economy - The game's current economic problems are directly tied to those pandering to the PvP crowd, especially the ones soaking up all the once-commonly-sold wood & ingots to do the community collections for gear to sell to the PvPers. Those of us crafting for ourselves and for sale to all players (most of my customers are buying stuff for their "trammy" characters - since I don't sell stuff for 100k that isn't worth 1k, like the "front" vendors in Luna for the PvP crowd) DO see an economy, and while the finite amount of coin is missing from the equation, the community collections and refusing to buy from scripters (whose real customers are the collection abusers, not crafters) DO introduce Supply, Demand, and Production Costs (especially the costs in TIME) into the picture. Because, it's apparent you've apparently never played a crafter in your SUPPOSED 11 years (I note your stratics start date coincides with about the time I actually started play - I'm inclined to think your account started in 1997 but you bought someone's account when they left due to AoS)

    If a person chooses NOT to play in that arena, it is their choice - and that of the majority of players I know - probably because of how anti-social, if not sociopathic, PvPers often are. I mean, I've seen PvP guilds depose their leader for DARING to make PvM friends to do something in the guild's best interest, but the guild wasn't equipped for (one glaring example was where a Guild leader was kicked out for paying a "trammy" guild a few +20 stats to clear the Ophid invasion from Fel Papua a year after the event was over, as it was interfering with their game play as a predominently raider guild).

    The poster stated he had NO intent of PvP - that makes your ranting not even on subject for this post, let alone having any relevence.

    The vast majority of us don't take part in that. Sorry if that destroys your worldview, but maybe you should stop emulating Cartman from the WoW South Park episode (isn't it about time to call your mom to bring the poop bowl over?). If you really hate UO so much, why are you playing it - and if you're not (or are playing on an illegal freeshard), why are you even posting here???
     
  12. DevilsOwn

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    most days, Nine, most days
     
  13. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    Thanks everyone for your welcome backs, now being active for a whopping 2 weeks I have slowly started to get back into the swing of things. Rebuilding my main character as I went for a build right of the bat that I could not afford to equip properly to be effective.

    But got my house, started mining, crafting and doing all that fun stuff again, started up a few vendors slowly making a bit of coin... things are slow but I figured that much :) .. seems people don't buy regs anymore so scrapped that plan. Oh well... still as fun as I remember. :hahaha:
     
  14. Hannes Erich

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    Ultima Online is an excellent game, I have no regrets about the time I spend in Britannia. But I know it's just a game. Loosely functional, anti-social packs of in-fighting PvPers and cheaters having a large impact on a game designed for social interaction and cooperation? PvPers facing exile for mingling with PvMers?

    In defense of the original dev team, I don't think anyone could have possibly seen that coming. It's still hard to believe. Not only is it surreal, but it's actually kind of dumb. Why are these people here? Is there some reason that would make sense to a normal, functioning member of society?

    This of course excludes legitimate PvPers who don't have weird emotional issues, capable of understanding the concept of different play-styles for different people.
     
  15. Duskofdead

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    I think that devs in general tend to take the rose-shaded view that most PvP in a game will be basically consensual, and in UO's case (if you have the really old school Ultima Online strategy guide like I do!) they assumed a lot of it would be RP related or controlled and limited to guild wars/diplomacy. And this was, essentially, accurate for a lot of beta and the "honeymoon" after launch -- for the first 2 years or so there were still enough people newly come into the game discovering everything that few were bored and developed enough to find sitting around ambushing players and miners to be a preferrable, more fun activity to other things they could be doing. At the very least I do not recall it being a major, major issue until around year 2.5 onwards, where it became bad (and it never had anything to do with RP, or guild wars, or factions, it was always pure spite and greed) and got worse until the player outcry was deafening. And every bit of it was justified, to be honest-- whatever people may think of Tram/Fel now, if you were anything other than a PK at the time Tram/Fel was imminent, you remember how bad it was and that it was common sense something had to be done. (Whether Tram/Fel was the best possible solution is a controversy that continues to this day and is a fair argument, though perhaps a dead one.) I would submit in closing on that though that people who claim not to be sociopathic PK's, who are nostalgic for the day of the exciting "risk" of being killed in the open, are almost certainly either remembering it too fondly in hindsight, or were not there for when the whole world was basically Felucca. Or you never left town. ;)

    Getting back on the point I started with... I think, at least from what I can see, devs rarely start out with a vision that encompasses either widespread, profitable PK behavior or widespread, systematic griefing playstyles. At the very least, whatever they do take into initial design consideration regarding these two problems tends to be insufficient enough that PK's and griefers will always recall back fondly on a game's opening or the period shortly after launch, before it got "nerfed" to protect the "whiners." Protections always have to come later because frequently a game when it hits the store shelves has little in terms of foolproof rules to prevent systematic griefing or opting out of any form of normal gameplay in favor of profiting and advancing purely by killing other players and erasing their work. This speaks to devs favor at least in my humble opinion because they aim towards the best of what an online community can bring to the table (fun stuff like RP pk's, organized guild wars, helping new players instead of murdering them effortlessly, not preying on much weaker players, etc.) rather than the worst, even though the worst always, to some degree, insinuates itself into online gaming.

    Today, if you are camped, griefed, killed on sight or otherwise immediately and mercilessly treated anywhere in Felucca, even "upstanding" members here will show up to say it was totally understandable and justified. After all, you were in Fel. The problem with the original game was that the whole world was Fel and if someone is sociopathic enough to believe that your mere presence, and the mere reality that they are capable of killing you without very much risk, is sufficient and self-explanatory motivation and justification to kill you, and kill you again, and grief you, then coexisting playstyles is simply not possible. I don't understand this mindset. I don't like it. I don't feel it's just an equal and alternative playstyle to everyone else's, it's a playstyle (and I use the term loosely) that depends entirely on stopping or, at the very least, persistently disrupting and damaging, pretty much everyone else's. I'm not talking about PvP or guild wars or RP murderers (who kill you one time and move on). I'm talking about griefing --- though, if you were in Fel, the reaction seems to be that it's all one and the same and that PvP only comes in one flavor-- a notion I disagree with, having seen many different stripes of death throughout UO's life. I think the griefer lawl I pwn u and den I pwn u again and agin! mindset is dominant today-- but I think it's a conceit and a weak attempt to justify it by pretending it's the only type of PvP the game ever knew and no one should reasonable expect to see anything else.

    Perhaps this is more of a spiel. Or a rant. *Shrug*
     
  16. Moreeg

    Moreeg Guest



    I could not agree with you more! I remember those early days... I remember the exodus of people quitting UO over non-consensual PvP (of course it wasnt called that at the time).

    It was impossible to start a new character, because as soon as you set foot out of guard zones you were set upon by groups of PKs for no reason other than "the lulz."

    I dont think there is any way it could have been anticipated, because it was really such a new concept... but it did lay the groundwork for all the other MMO's out there, with many creating PvP and non-PvP shards to accommodate play styles. I believe the UO model showed other developers that these sort of people with that particular attitude were out there and provisions for them needed to be in place.


    Basara: I like the Quake comment. That is exactly what we used to all say to describe those types... just run and gun. No real purpose other than choas. Another thing I like is how when they are called out for anti-social behavior they fall back on "I'm role playing as a murderer," but their alleged role playing is often peppered with phrases like d00d, leet, sweet, etc...
     
  17. Dragonchilde

    Dragonchilde Guest

    Ah, memories. I remember hunting outside of Moonglow... only to be whacked by a PK. I was still in newbie clothes, and had like... two piles of bloody wool and an axe. I found a healer, and he did it again.

    I also remember the screaming I did the first time I ever got PKed.Outside of Yew somewhere, and I ran for hours, trying to find my way around, because I didn't know how to work the radar.

    I would have quit.

    but then... I also remember the thrill of killing my first PK, the pounding of my heart, the adrenaline rush. I never liked PKs, but they weren't so thick that you couldnt' function, and once I had a guild, I remember being able to call on them for help when I needed it at the Yew moongate.

    I remember Pax Lair, on Chesapeake, and chatting with reds outside of a guard zone, because it was just *understood* that you didn't do that there.

    That sort of thing... it's gone. I don't miss it, not really-- it sucked to lose hard-won loot and equipment, back when gold really was at a premium, but there is a certain nostalgia to those days. Now, there's not nearly the same challenge. A trip to Shame is just an elemental farming trip, not a real danger. Other than maybe a too-intense spawn because no one hunts there anymore to keep them down.
     
  18. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    They even bother to do that anymore? All I see around the forums is them ripping into Trammie noobs for having the nerve to step in Fel. If you do, apparently, you are throwing yourselves to sheer sociopathica and anything that happens is YOUR fault.... not the person who camps you, ganks you, griefs you, whatever.