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Bad choice for EM event

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ailish, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Making it so that platnum dragons would attack reds on sight ... nice. As if reds might not be fighting on the good side? Well, since the dragons I was supposed to be "helping" decided to chomp me, I decided that evil was the more honorable side and killed every blue I could.
     
  2. IanJames

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  3. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    How about the plat goes grey cause it cast some area effect spell and now i can't heal it 'nless i go grey myself? why i might join you!
     
  4. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    LOL

    Reds complaining about being red, that is a good one.
     
  5. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    No, reds complaining about the developers not thinking that they *might* want to fight on the side of good. Get it straight if you are going to comment. My first ever exposure to PvP was at an EM event (a long time ago) fighting for "good" alongside several reds.

    Of course, having the outcome be guaranteed no matter what kind of disgusted me, as well. A 10:1 ratio of platnum to crimson dragons ... overall the whole situation made me WANT to fight on the side of evil. Way to go!
     
  6. Sara Of Baja

    Sara Of Baja Certifiable
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    The platinum dragons were attacking blues, too. I was on a non-faction blue. I lost count of how many times the other 2 people I was partied with and I were killed died to platinum dragons before the crimson dragons were defeated. It was just part of the event, adapt and overcome?
     
  7. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    :) Just for fun :)

    But but but .... you are red because you murder and maim innocents. How could a Good Aligned Being possibly be tolerant of your Evil presence?

    What fun is there in Good & Evil vs Evil? :)

    All in fun.
     
  8. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I am red because I "murdered and maimed" blues that were attacking my guildmates. They were far from innocent. AND they were trying to steal from me (raiding my spawn). There was even one who was calling me dispariging names based upon my gender. That makes me "evil"?

    You see, the murder system does not really account for honorable actions of violence, which happen in wars.

    So, no, things are not all black and white, in life or in game. But that's ok ... since I was not able to play on the "good" side without the "good" side stabbing me in the back, I decided that the evil side was, indeed better (in an RP sense, even!) as they were at least honest in their intentions.

    @ Sara ... i did adapt, I adapted to the other side :) I did not see platnums attacking blues on my shard unless first attacked. Yet I could run thru, not touch a single one, and have 5 chase me instantly. It was lovely.
     
  9. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    Don't forget the obvious...that your guildmates have to be red themselves for the blues to not been flagged crim when you killed them.
     
  10. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Sure they do, when you get raided by blues, the only other option is to stand around and just let them have you spawn, ya? Very few blues in Fel are actually innocent. Lets be real here.
     
  11. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Or you could just wait until they flag grey to noto them. Or you could just ignore them and focus on getting as many scrolls as you can.
     
  12. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Thats exacly the same what i think when i'm fighting monsters in Felucca. Its not because i'm blue that i'm not Evil. Then a red appears out of nowhere and kills me instead! I'm just trying to kill the good monsters to help the evil side. The world is soooooooo unfair! :)
     
  13. The Fallout

    The Fallout Guest

    What's that???? It's the WWWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAmbulance. You are red, in game you are evil.
     
  14. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    A dragon of good siding withone who has earned a reputation murdering countless innocents? Yeah I don't think so.
     
  15. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    lol
     
  16. Merik

    Merik Guest

    If they were attacking your guildies wouldn't they have been grey? Aso no one owns spawns so that would be following the path of greed :) As for RP sense the Platinum dragons wouldn't want help from a red. And if you are spawning so much you must have a blue character for powerscrolls. Dun tell me you waste an extra six PS and do a spawn boss on your red??
     
  17. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    just for funs sake i used to rp a red pallie that got the reputation of murder for killing dread necromancers (very ez to do as a blue) who had a disdain for the virtue system becouse it was far from all incompasing and mostly unfair to majority so it was up to him to take upon himself the title of murder and defender of the anti virtues for the sake of the ppl the virtues were impossed apon. Call it lord blackthorns chaos if you will
     
  18. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Ah but you underestimated the wisdom and foresight of the platinum dragons ... they knew that you were destined to turn to evil. It is only your narrow mortal view of fate that you *think* it was because of them that your actions gave way to chaos :)
     
  19. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    lol You guys are hillarious. Just reminds me why I usually do play on the side of "evil" during these events. I took a red so as to be free to defend against any blues wishing to RP evil (you know, by attacking the platnum dragons).

    And why would a "good" dragon wish to kill someone who was there to defend them? Again, because of the way the game is set up, there is no black and white. Not all "blues" are good or innocent, and not all reds are evil or bad. That was one of the first lessons I learned in PvP.

    During the SL event, my guild, which was Minax, chose to kill all the SL people who were trying to kill Clanin, and then we turned on Clanin, because as followers of Minax, we were also opposed to TB and what Clanin stood for. I have since left that part of me behind, and thought only to redeem my actions.

    My point is, the way it was set up, the choice to RP a murder trying to redeem themselves, or to be a character that has gone red killing evil people who masquerade as good people, or even a character that went red killing the followers of the Shadow Lords, it wasnt possible. That is not a very good set up. I am not big into RP, but I do try to get into the events, but I do not always want to be the "perfect" innocent for that purpose. Sure, I had blue characters I could have taken. But I chose a red because of how interesting it was to me from an RP perspective.
     
  20. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Oh? Or perhaps their actions drove me to it? Why should I give loyalty to a creature that apparently cannot wait to have me for dinner? That is very low, indeed. I would say that the platnum dragons, in their belief of superiority, opened my eyes to the fact that chaos is, at least, honest. :p (very nice answer tho, Maple lol)
     
  21. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    To quote Dexter:

    ( to me, there's no RP fun in complaining that something was implemented wrong ... the fun is in dreaming up a plausible explanation why the implementation was actually completely proper ... although I do think Dexter goes a little overboard in buttering up the platinums ... I wonder if they naturally radiate an aura that makes mortals around them either love them or hate them :) )

    (oh, but sorry to hear they tried to stomp on you)
     
  22. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    dats mah gurl!

    :thumbsup:
     
  23. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Good and Evil is realy a matter of a point of view for each person. Depending on what side we on we all think that our side is good and the other is evil. The dragon thought you where evil and attacked you. But that don't mean you are realy evil. :)



    My "Daemon" want to kill every human there is.From our side she doing wrong with killing them but from her point of view she bringing justice cause the humans are responsible for the destruction of her race.
     
  24. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    You make a good point. I guess I just thought it was important to point out that people play all sorts of characters for all sorts of reasons, and it does not make good sense to make the game mechanics cause something of this sort to attack someone who was on its own side with no provocation. It leads to the "story" being less in depth and does not allow for the intricasies that occur in war - and this was a war, yes?

    It would have made sense to me for the platnum dragons to attack all SL factioneers - red or blue - on sight. That would have followed the story line. Yet that was not the case. As I said, I chose a red because it made sense to me that a murderer might still wish to fight against the crimson dragons and the shadowlords and Casca. Even a murderer would not want to see their world destroyed. And, even tho I became red for other reasons, it is actually true that most of the people I killed to get that way were SL factioneers. I also expected to see those same factioneers there attempting to interfere with the battle - be they red or blue - and would have hated to take another character red, even tho the cause would have been noble.

    *shrug* I suppose none of it really matters. Serves me right for trying to do something interesting (RP wise) with my character.
     
  25. Shamus Turlough

    Shamus Turlough Lore Master
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    Ailish, had the dread Diabolikus been on Napa, he would have been at your side. Reds get a bad rap, especially when reds actually want to participate in PvM type events. And to the one that said you could stand there and not kill blues who show up at a spawn? HA! Not on my watch...
     
  26. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    HAHA! I guess I knew that point all along and the dragon just showed me the truth - evil is honest and has nothing to hide ;)
     
  27. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    A quick guide to theories of morality (as seen through the eyes of an armchair UO philosopher):

    Absolutism: deep down you are either red or blue

    Intrinsicism: necromancy is just plain evil

    Monism: if we talk it through we should be able to reach an agreement about whether the action was good or evil.

    Objectivism: What's good for me is good (which is almost the exact opposite of what I would expect of a philosophy with "objective" as its root word)

    Relativism: good and evil only exist in the eye of the beholder

    Subjectivism: there is no good an evil, just labels we throw at stuff.

    Universalism: there exists a way to code a karma system that works
     
  28. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    So, what -ism is it to say that there is no clear-cut line between good and evil, and that there is a little of each in the other? :) Is that realism?
     
  29. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Taoism? Manichaeism?
     
  30. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I think it would depends on whether you feel that it's not clear-cut because there are cases where it's just too complicated to really measure, or because deep down it depends on who's looking.
     
  31. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Just means that although you may think you are 'good', the dragons don't share your world view. I'd be quite interested if, after the event is done and SA released, the 'winning' dragons turn round and say 'we only had to sort this mess out because of you lot, so now we'll clean up the world by wiping you humans and elf nuisances out'....
     
  32. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    If Platinum Dragons were given good alignment (like Serpentine Dragons), they would go after players with bad karma. Since most reds have bad karma it would appear like they were being targeted.
     
  33. five oclock

    five oclock Guest

    what we do have are the most Insane Disfunctional SOB's With attitudes that cant be matched anywhere else!!the most messed up people! the most messed up guilds the most messed up Period!
    Welcome To Napa!....Even Madness Needs A Home
    Otis Firefly 11/2008
     
  34. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    It would be the former. Is the person who murders the killer of children automatically purely evil because he has taken a life? What of the virtuous lady who is lead by what she thinks is love to let go of her virtue, only to find that the love was an illusion? Is she now unredeemable? The The gangster who would attack someone for wearing the wrong color, but uses drug money to pay grandma's rent?

    Life is complicated. The shades of grey are many ... As for Ailish (the character) ... she attempted to reach out to the side of good. It slapped her in the face. Lesson learned. She will not be so quick to reach in the future.
     
  35. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    You choose to play a mass-murderer, and now your crying and moaning about this? Seriously?


    Yer a :loser:
     
  36. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    I am blue, don't have a single murder count, have the highest level of fame and karma and I was attacked by a platinum dragon that I was helping. Not sure why but it happened. I managed to help take down 2 crimsons, and get loot rights before I was vaporized by my own side.
     
  37. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    :danceb:

    :thumbsup:
     
  38. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    But... you're not allowed to defy our black and white preset stereotypes of good and evil! Go kill some kittens before our deficient in-game morality system implodes!

    Now that I think of it, shouldn't UO ban itself for being racist? It's judging people by the color of their skin... :D
     
  39. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Maybe the platinums (correct spelling) picked up on your sorry fanny attitude and knew what to do.

    Red is red and blue is blue, regardless of what the game counts as what.....you chose your path when helping guildies who can't fight their own battles.(so you say)

    I don't know you from adam, so, I have no reason to trust you or believe you.

    Sounds a rant, that's all.
     
  40. Myna

    Myna Guest


    the funny thing is every red justifie their acts with ... hey i protected my guildmates only

    i am wondering who is killing all the crafters and blues at champ spawns

    its like nobody is dl porn but its one of the biggest industries in the internet
     
  41. if you're red because you're defending red guildmates, then you should full well accept the stigma of associating with reds (as you were obviously not defending blue guildmates), and 'defending' a spawn is hardly virtuous. becoming red is an act of selfishness not matter how you spin it.

    however, i do feel the whole red/blue muder system in fel is pointless now. factions should be mandatory, where the unfactioned is considered a faction which is fair game to the rest of the factions as the unfactioned represent unloyal citizens.
     
  42. Zyron

    Zyron Guest

    Haha. the event was fun for me because it was me and 3 other SL's against about 40 bluess

    it was AWESSOMMMEEE!!

    if it hasnt happened on your shard yet...


    BE SURE TO USE TB FACTION BASE TO YOUR ADVANTAGE!!
     
  43. Otis Firefly

    Otis Firefly Slightly Crazed
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    went grey from rezzing the foulest of murderers, and then got targeted by the platinum dragons...i was laggin in a serious way!, if i didnt have that lag? im pretty sure i would have had a few murder counts by the end of it!! lol..but i was laggin to much to chase anyone!! let alone the foulest of murderers i was chasing to rez lmao
    but i did notice it took like 5 or 6 plat dragons to take out 1 crimson dragon...wtf kinda supreem immortal beings are these?? lmfao
     
  44. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Re:The bolded part. This is so wrong. What is SELFISH is standing around going "Oh no! I can't help my buddy out because I might flag grey or I might go red! Sorry pal, you are on your own while those three people gank you because I can't help you out! But I want you to come to my aid when three people are ganking me!"

    All those blues and half the "greens" did just that. I was there to help them, but when I got ganked by the bad guys (of which there were many), all they could do was watch and let me wander around dead. Because it was A-OK to have me keep the baddies off them, but when the time came that the tables were turned? I was left out to hang. Yeah, that is some virtue there, folks!

    No matter. I see the prevailing attitude here. I am the kind of person who WOULD help out a random person (blue or red) if they were the underdog. Now I see why I shouldnt. The holier-than-thou attitude is pretty disgusting.

    On my shard, that would be no one. Well, not strictly true, but for the most part, the "crafters" and "non-pvp blues" only do Deciet and are mostly left alone, or they are allied with a PvP guild and are defended, even tho they themselves would not lift a finger to defend that same guild.

    The "blues" that get "ganked" on Napa are almost strictly PvPers who all have red alts from "ganking" as well. In other words, they are not innocent, they just use the guise of innocence to get all the scrolls. Its normal practice.
     
  45. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    :thumbup:

    And that is what makes things Good. I am going to add to Maplestones list ....

    There can not be Good unless there is also an Equal and Opposite Evil. If there is an imbalance then in time, there will be neither.

    I applaud your choice to play the Role you were dealt. It is in the end, all about having fun.

    As a side note and not to Derail your thread, It is always easy to Role Play Good, we as a Society are indoctrinated how to do this from the moment we are born.

    BUT how to Role Play Evil, now that is really a Challenge that only the truely gifted in a MMORPG can pull off and NOT PK THE PvP portion of the MMORPG.
     
  46. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I've always disliked that philosophy myself. I realize that in an ongoing game world, it's almost required because allowing good or evil to actually win kind of ends the game, but still there's something that rubs me the wrong way about a universe that has to add up to 0 :)
     
  47. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    If I look hard enough, I will find the philosophy that defines 0 mathematically as equal to infinity. I think it is in The Vedas, which if I remember correctly can lay claim to the first written concept of 0, that was co-opted by the Arab's latter.

    That it is this imbalance, the net 0, that has the ultimate power to create something from nothing.
     
  48. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    A Riemann sphere projection of complex numbers is pretty close.

    (not quite "equal", but on the opposite pole of a sphere)
     
  49. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I sat at the back of the room, cloaked and in the shadows, listening to the words of Lady Dawn. I remembered a time, when I was still a young girl, that Dawn had come before. A time when I still believed in the cause of upholding Lord British, a time when I still believed that all were good at heart. I had followed her then ...

    It had been many months since I left the forces of Lady Minax, disillusioned by the greed and selfishness of her followers, and her continued absence. I thought about the actions I had not only performed, but also ordered while in her ranks. I was now an outcast, a follower of no cause, and branded a murderer as well, for the deaths of Clanin and those who would have defended him.

    Dawn spoke of the platinum dragons, and how they were coming to the aid of Britania against the forces of the Shadowlords. Not the followers of the Shadowlords, but the beings themselves. She told of the plans of Casca to destroy the Britain stronghold in the old lands. Anger burned in my heart. Casca ... the pretender, he who would only use those that inhabit the old lands to destroy themselves and all others.

    I made the decision. I had no care for the new world, but it was a mostly peaceful place. And I did not wish to see my own home, and all those I knew, fall to the power of evil. I began to plan ...

    At the end of the meeting, a boy approached me. He was still very young yet, new to the world of fighting. He knew only of defending his home and people. He knew nothing of large battles that rage for the world itself. His heart was pure, and inflamed for the cause of good. He asked me, did I know the best part he could play in this battle. Why he asked me, I will never know. But I told him. I told him of old battles he had never heard of, of the evils he would face in the old lands, of the enemies that would be obvious, and of those that would not. When he pledged to stand at my side, I smiled sadly. I told him he would not want to do that, if he knew who I was, but that he would do well to follow Lady Dawn.

    I arrived early to the battlefield and was immediately engaged in battle by a follower of the Shadowlords. He was joined by one from the Council of Mages. As I managed to elude these two, the crimson dragons flooded out of Lord Blackthorne's old castle, and everyone ran in that direction. I found the platinum dragons deep in battle against the crimsons, and many good Britanians fighting as well, against both the crimsons and the hoards of factioneers who would stop them.

    I saw the boy from the night before, being chased by a Shadowlords follower. I urged my horse quickly that direction. Yelling at the boy to run back to the group, I engaged the person attacking him, but quickly lost footing as some of his companions arrived. Deciding it was better if I return to the main battle, I made my way around the buildings to a group fighting against a crimson dragon.

    Shouts sounded as someone recognized me. Then one of the platinum dragons turned its head towards me ... steely eyes bore into mine. I was frozen for a moment, and then drawn to the dragon. "Allow me to assist you, to drive the evil back!" I said.

    "There is no redemption for you here, woman! We do not want the help of one such as you! Begone!" the dragon growled, breathing fire at me. Two of her companions also turned my direction, momentarily forgetting the crimson they were battling. As I fled, I felt the tip of a massive claw dig into my shoulder, and my horse stumbled.

    Badly injured and now horseless, I stumbled past an old friend. I asked if they might have some bandages. They looked through me and walked away. Another once-ally of mine, a follower of Minax, kicked at me, snarling "Where were you when we needed you? When we were fighting against these cursed True Britanians and Council of Mages?! Do not look to me for help!"

    As I fell to the ground, one person, once my closest companion, did come to my aid. He tended my wounds and spoke quietly to me. "They do not mean it, they are just angry. They will see that you are helping eventually!"

    Burning anger filled me. Eventually? It was not enough to see it right now? And those dragons! How dare they denounce me for coming to their aid?!

    "No, there will be no evenutally. I am done with being stabbed in the back by those I would help! If they do not want my help, then by the virtues, they will not have it! Damn them all for only seeing the surface and not the heart! I am weary of shallow people with shallow desires!"

    I was flooded with memories of people spitting at the beggars in the streets, of people tearing down the walls of Magincia in greed for rare items, of the bloodlust in the eyes crying for the death of a measly thief. Of all these people pretending to be good and virtuous while their heart burned black with every anti-virtue known to man. And the platinum dragons? Why were they here? They did not care for the plight of man, they cared only for their own hides! They all bore falsehoods, none were what they pretended!

    As the battle waned, I walked away. It did not matter who won, the world would always be filled with chaos. My actions had been no better than those of the vilest of villians, no worse than those of the most honorable paladin. In the forrest, I sat, broken. What had this world come to? Where was the good? The honor? They were all illusions, pretense. There was nothing left to believe in ... quietly, I cried.
     
  50. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Nicely written!

    (perhaps a nice plot hook for future events? Where there are tears, there is still doubt?)