So, just another one of those tamer are overpowered threads, but hopefully with some good ideas as to how to better balance their power versus other templates, particularly in pvp. Essentially, I'll tell you why and how I think herding and vet should be required on all tamer templates. Now the basis of my suggestions is this, if had only one character and you were to pick any two skills in the game and your job was to make the most powerful pvp/pvm template, which two skills would you pick? I'd say taming/lore. Do any other skills even compare? Mage/med, nope, arch/chiv, nope, fencing/tactics, nope. Now my problem isn't directly with taming/lore - its simply that taming lore by far are the best two skills a person can have for both pvm and/or pvp. So to balance it out, I think additional secondary skills must be needed in order for taming and lore to keep their effectiveness. Imagine if mage/med/eval all got rolled up into one skill, supermage - supermage would be an overpowered skill but having it split amongst mage/med/eval and requiring 300+ skill points to be effective balances it out. So my suggestion would be require herding and vet for tamers to be effective, by implementing the following changes: Require it so that pets have a time delay in listening to successive tamer commands, and herding lowers the time delay. So for example, a tamer with 0 herding could issue one command (all kill/all stop) every 60 seconds - any other commands issued would be ignored. A tamer with 100 herding could issue a command every 10 seconds, 120 herding - 8 seconds. The specific time interval would be tested and balanced, these are just examples. Furthermore there should be a command delay like a spell casting delay for pet commands, similar to say a 4th level spell, and interruptible. If I were to tell my dog "go get him boy" that would take me a second or two for me to say as well as it would be quite difficult for me to say that if someone was pummeling me in the head with a mace. Next, make it so that you can only heal a pet via vet (or require vet for any form of healing to be effective so as to not take away spellweaving healing). Simply put, if you are going to heal your pet, you need to have vet. And if for whatever reason you don't heal your pet, your pets disloyalty to you should drastically increase. If I were to constantly tell my dog to go kill a tiger and after the fight do nothing to help my dog lick his wounds, he would probably lose some loyalty towards me eventually. So, now if tamers were required to have 400+ skill points in taming/lore/vet/herding, while still being the best pvm character, it would be much more balanced when comparing it to having 400+ skill points in mage/med/eval/resist or fencing/tactics/anat/heal. I could see those two characters in a more fair fight than just currently taming/lore vs mage/med or fencing/tactics. All this does is force the tamer to be a pure tamer and not a tamer/bard or mage/tamer or tamer/archer by reducing the availability of skill points for secondary/support skills. The tamer by itself is no less powerful than before.