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best features of EC should be implemented in CC

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ingsmsico, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    EC has the option to automatically walk around objects. this should be implemented in CC immediately and a toggle macro should be included.

    in EC, you can switch your backpack to list items. while not critical, this would be useful in CC. please implement it.

    thanks!

    everyone should use this thread to talk about CC interface improvements, steps that need to be taken to make UOAssist no longer needed.

    edit: in CC there needs to be an options for default journal color.

    edit: the EC chat features (push enter first) should be implemented in CC as an option
     
  2. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    I love the grid view, right-click looting, aid/curse timers, insta-switch weapons, atlas...heck, I like most everything about the EC, but prefer the look of the CC.
     
  3. all i want is for the EC to have a total legacy/classic graphics option. it honestly can't be that hard to import the art for mobiles and tiles. at worst it would just be mind numbing for whoever assigned.

    given that the graphics and look has been a big issue, this would seem like the simplest option to attract veteren players.

    from there, the EC can further be refined to fix the other playable problems reported, like with spellcasting.
     
  4. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:
     
  5. Graphics are a matter of opinion, I think the CC just looks too much like a cartoon. But it's not really such a big deal. If that would get players to switch to a better client then I am all for it.

    Now, the rest of the EC play and interface, especially with some of the creative Modders we have, makes it so much easier to play than a 15 year old client that wasn't state of the art when it was in beta testing. It's time to retire the dinosaur and put all development efforts into the new EC client. The Classic Client has been slowly dying, let it rest in peace like it deserves.
     
  6. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Agreed, It sounds also far easier than adding any of these EC functions to the CC client.
     
  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Everyone should just give up the CC altogether and get with the times and switch. Not just for the improved functions... but so the DEV's can focus on the game not making stuff for this or that or both clients.
     
  8. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    Yup, this :thumbup1:

    The graphics are a matter of opinion , and I for one would rather have the "cartoon" graphics of the CC, rather than, the Washed out, Pastel, Indistinct blur that is the EC.

    Edit: and this does not even address the deficiencies of the EC. I understand when something is in Beta, but Beta should NEVER be released to the public, and how long can a Beta last 3 years, 5? more?
     
  9. well being that the graphics are a major point for a good portion of the crowd, just importing the legacy graphics as an option would usher these players in.

    if they can add tiles to the CC, then it should be no contest to add the classic tiles to the EC. the same with the static art. mobiles could be a bigger issue depending how animation is handled, but like mentioned earlier, at worst it would be mindnumbing to just copy per frame.
     
  10. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    No problem. Oh wait a min. why don't you just give up on EC and the devs can improve the CC and only worry about one client and focus on the game.
     
  11. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I suggested this a while ago, apparently it's technically impossible, that was the response i got.
     
  12. What exactly do you see as the deficiencies when you used the Enhanced Client, other than your graphics preference as you pointed out? When did you last try it? It's MUCH improved over the initial release if you haven't tired it since then.
     
  13. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Well yeah, thats why people want the enhanced client's ui with cc graphics
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Because the old CC is very hard to code has way too much old crap going on and is obviously over their helmets on fixing.

    Therefore they made a new client that while still uses seriously outdated stuff is still easier to code.

    Therefore if everyone would just get over it and really work hard at learning the EC set all your stuff to CC if you need to we can move on.

    Also... as far as EC graphics go... beyond the ugly mobiles and paperdolls .... the vastly improved ground and mountain graphics... The EC uses the same ancient graphics as the CC. All the walls, flooring and 99% of items are all CC graphics.

    Which is why on some pc's it looks like hell... because they took outdated pixels and put them in an updated client and tried to add zoom and things which when you zoom bad pixels you get worse pixels.

    Now not being a computer geek or a programmer I can tell you that this will cause you to see ugly side effects.

    But... much of the rest of the client is good as are most of the features.

    Just find folk who are good at programing and all that crap and get them to make improved UI and put that on the Modders Exchange for all to use.

    Then everyone will be happy.
     
  15. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Just find a qualified programmer with 15 tears of experience who actually knows the old programming languages and new languages and hire him to do the programming for UO. No need then to waste more costly man-hours on the EC. Just dump it in the trash and stay with what works well.

    I'm sure there's someone in his <gasp> ancient 30's who recalls the UO programming language that EA could hire. :)
     
  16. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    If they put all the best stuff from the EC into the CC... doesn't that by definition leave you with the EC?

    How about they actually FINISH the EC and make it better than BOTH clients are now combined instead of just leaving it out there half completed and completely compromised.
     
  17. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Let me repeat this It aint the UI with the EC it's the fuggly graphics that is keeping CC users away. Give us CC/SA/KR graphics with the EC UI. WIN/WIN/WIN
     
  18. Banner

    Banner Guest

    This is what I want too.. I would love to play EC BUT the dang graphics are just to much for my old laptop.. SOO if they would fix it to where I don't have to go out an spend Lot's of money for a new laptop I would be right there.. I have the EC downloaded and switch over maybe once every 2 or 3 months but it runs sooooo slowwww .... Oh well do the right thing and so will those of us who play this game..
     
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    If they put in the rest of the CC graphics (terrain/models), it's still going to be a graphical mess because the EC defaults to a larger and non 1:1 ratio setting in resolution. Therefore any and all CC graphics will appear pixelated and distorted UNLESS You spend the time to zoom out to the one click that matches (and then not 100%) the 1:1 ratio of the CC graphics.

    Whatever the mistakes KR made in artwork style, the EC has made just as big a mistake in simply trying to shoehorn the CC graphics back in outside of their 640x480 native resolution.

    Trust me, the EC ALREADY has the VAST majority of CC graphics at the un-enhanced level of said graphics, and the look ssuffers for it.
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Oh I agree..... but in effort to bring all under one client they should put that junk in and allow folk to use some classic setting... then permanently turn off 2d.... focus on just one client and go.
     
  21. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Right now I'm not worried about them shutting down or keeping the CC going. I'm more concerned with the lack of attention an UNFINISHED and downgraded client has been suffering.
     
  22. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Not until they can implement some decent creature/background differentiability, targeted creature/non-targeted creature differentiability, and actually visible spell graphics... too many are colored bubbles of light that are barely discernible.
     
  23. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    And you can't tell the difference between spells by the words??
     
  24. IMO this is turning into a old school vs new age argument when the fact for most of the players that prefer the old client is just that... The "cc" has been around for so long and is what many are used to.
     
  25. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    it's just not gonna happen until they fix the graphics.
     
  26. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Or the Devs should just give up on the EC altogether and make some much needed infrastructure changes to the CC.

    Because, seriously, expecting everyone to migrate to a client that has been in beta for over a year, and is still as undesirable as it was the day it went into beta, well, that's a bit much of an expectation.

    Until Mythic provides a real alternative to the CC that isn't buggy, laggy, poorly designed (from, god only knows why, a WoW interface standard) that has a few nice features that get the pompom wavers awaving, well, thanks, but I'll stick with the CC.

    I mean, really, at this point, I don't expect the EC will ever become the dominant client, and it's because they're doing too little with it at a snail's pace, and there's absolutely no sign of them making the kinds of improvements they'd need to make to get people to switch. Maybe 2011 will change this, but they'd be better off starting from the ground up, and hiring a few dozen Blizzard employees to do the artwork.
     
  27. First of all, there is NO such thing as a 3D client any more. The Enhanced Client is NOT 3D, and displays the exact same perspective as the old Classic Client. That's very important to understand in this context and conversation.

    The CC client and EC clients display the graphics differently, basically the CC is low-resolution. They tried making the EC the same low-resolution because so many CC users complained that it looked different and made it worse!

    It was said by a developer that the CC CAN NOT display at a larger screen size and resolution. Scaling up the 2D graphics in the CC would increase the pixel count exponentially, overwhelming any graphics card on the market today. That's the main reason for going with a new game engine. You can manually change your monitor's resolution, or use one of those programs that scales the game up to a bigger monitor, but you end up with a jaggy mess.

    So...
    CC and EC have the exact same perspective.

    EC is NOT 3D. Period. It's a 2D game just like the CC.

    CC can not be scaled to a large widescreen monitor.

    EC graphics were downgraded to make the CC user happy, and it sucks, and CC users said they aren't going to use it anyway.

    The EC is NOT buggy, laggy, poorly designed as some uninformed players think. LIES! If you think that, you haven't used it in the last year. It's not the same client that was originally released.
     
  28. Siteswap

    Siteswap Visitor

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    No. It leaves you with the "look" of the CC and the functionality of the EC.

    Which to be honest should have been their remit when they set about creating the EC. If they had replicated what CC looks and feels like (primarily when I say "feel" I mean the feel of the movement as it still feels like Im ice skating in the EC) then you can guarantee that they would have reached the magical 95% uptake that they once sought (laughably) with KR.

    Until they rectify this mistake (probably never) then Im afriad we are ALWAYS going to have two clients to support.
     
  29. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    I can't stand the CC graphics and I hate the lack of proper particle effects in it even more. I started UO when Third Dawn came out and have never used it.
    This ongoing crusade by some of the hardcore CC fans to get every new client axed regardless of its merits and flaws (because they don't actually care, they'll just keep using the CC anyway) is really tiresome after almost ten years and is really detrimental to the game in my opinion.
     
  30. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Well unfortunately it's my firm belief that once again the CC users will win the day because EA/DEV's will do as they did back in the days of Thrid Dawn..... they have tried to push out a new client... it's been rejected by the majority and now the EC is to be pushed to the side and largely ignored.

    Once again 99% of the DEV time will be spent trying to work with seriously outdated and buggy code of the CC because the die hards won't switch.

    But what the DEV's fail to realize is that many of those who complain and refuse to switch are several of the self same ones who won't switch because in the EC they can't use the known cheat program that only works in you have UOA.

    So the reason you can't get folk to switch to the new EC isn't about much more than cheats.

    Want to stop most of the cheating and illegal 3rd party program use.... do away with the 2d client. Certainly folk will eventually figure out how to cheat with the EC and all but... for the most part doing away with the old 2d client and ending UOA will put an end to much of that.

    It's not rocket science.

    Anyway as for the graphics and all of that nothing will improve because no one seems to want change.

    They did KR but obviously they hired 3rd grade artists. The art was horrible. It lacked any detail at all and quite frankly looked like a seriously bad painting done in crayola. I'm still having to put up with some of that horrible artwork. The hiryu looks pitiful and somewhat like a plucked turkey with the head of a misshapen monkey.... the colors are all off and wrong.

    You can't tell the difference anymore between a plain nightmare and a "pure" one... they all look exactly alike. In 2d nightmares come in a wide variety some with longer manes, some with short manes, some dark black and others more deep gray. In 2d dragons come in Brown and Red.... in the EC they are all red.

    I have many, many complaints... especially the hideously ugly male paperdoll. However the functionality of the EC wins over for me. I can look past the uglies to be able to play in a much easier user friendly client.

    The problem is I'm very angry that I've pretty much been told that the EC is not going to ever be a priority with the DEVs because well they can't get folk to use it.

    But as Ra'Dian so pointed out the reason is it's been in Beta for like a Year and have they done anything or shown any sign that they are going to finish it???? No. It has gone the way of 3rd Dawn... left and abandoned only to be added to when they add things to the ancient buggy 2d client and even then only minimal effort is going to be given.

    Don't believe me? The track record for EA/DEV's is tried and true... and there is zero indication that it will ever change. It's always been and so it always will be.

    The chances of them really actually starting over again are probably slim to none. I'm doubting they will ever get another opportunity to actually get it right.... and even if they were given such an opportunity do you really think they could get it right? Certainly given the track record I doubt it.

    And will UO ever have a true 3d engine... highly unlikely.
     
  31. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I find the graphics of the EC are the real issue for me, if the devs were to simply allocate an artist for a few hours a week simply going through the EC art and finishing it, alongside the bug fixing devs, the CC would be much easier to ditch. I'd rather they did that than leave the EC unfinished and mess about adding EC stuff into the CC.

    TBH I do prefer the CC graphics to the sometimes mish-mash EC ones, but if the EC had been made into the great client it should be, more players would've moved over. I think the EC is certainly fixable. I love the retro style of the CC, but I think the majority of the dev time should be spent on the newest client and that players should try to move over.

    Wenchy
     
  32. canary

    canary Guest

    Well, it IS, actually, and you yourself go on in your own post to cite reasons why others do not go to the EC.

    I don't use cheats and I am sticking to the classic client until they can pull magic out of their hat with the EC or Oprah decides to invest money into UO with a new client.

    Why?

    1) Art. Even with the addition of many of the CC art assets, I cannot get past the blurriness of the leftover KR art. The paperdolls, as you noted, are horrific. The fact that they 'dumbed down' the graphics so zoom in is a joke is inexcusable. It looks like circa 1984 Atari, which isn't really a selling point.

    2) The eternal beta. Really? We've been in beta for WELL over a year now, with only slight attention towards the EC's development. Again, this is inexcusable. The UO team has a long, long, long, long history of half finished work. The EC itself is no different. There is no sense of polish to it. They need to show that they are willing to put in the manpower to finally do it right. I mean, my god, they can't even get the 1:1 zoom right on legacy backpacks in the EC client, resulting in a blurry mess.

    I pretty much agree with everything Ra'Dian says. When they have a polished, decently put together client, I'll easily jump ship. Most people think that the KR and EC clients were an ugly, ugly joke. And they are. If I'm given a choice, I'm going with the more appealing client for now... and that isn't the EC (imo). If we were forced to EC right now by the way it looks, I'm going to guess the servers would be closing down by the plethora of closed accounts.
     
  33. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    You just don’t get it do you? You can have the best of the best product where UO is concerned functionally (EC UI) in the world and visually looks like crap (EC graphics) and you expect us to just accept it and switch over to EC. No thank you.

    Many of those that complain about the graphics, not because we cheat, but because we want/demand something better visually. You even bash the graphics and still expect us to blindly accept it. No thank you.

    Why should we/anybody accept an inferior product from a company that we are paying money to. All we are asking for is you not only give us something functionally (EC UI) superior, which they have, and also visually superior (EC graphics), which they have not.

    I and many others will not play a game we can not stand to look at for more than 5 minutes no matter how functionally superior it is.
     
  34. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    I agree.
     
  35. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    The graphics of the EC are simply too poor and clumsy.
     
  36. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Most of the graphics in the EC are the CC client graphics. So you don't like the CC graphics?
     
  37. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The BIGGEST problem with the EC graphics is quite frankly the compromise the Devs tried to make in order to appease and entice people into playing the EC. What they apparently did NOT realize is that the method in which they did so simply has NOT worked.

    On the one side (the one I identify with), you have people WANTING UO's graphics to evolve. They're the ones who have been willing to see the potential (and problems) with the KR artwork as well as how the original art assets simply do not work in a higher resolution and zoomable setting. Most in this camp would be perfectly happy with the option to use higher resolution graphics while retaining the CC graphics as the "default" (like KR did, but in reverse).

    On the other side, you have the people who ONLY want the 2d CC graphics come hell or high water, but when they see the result of the EC, are turned off because of the distortion these graphics end up going through but many (such as in this thread) do see the advantage in many of the new features.

    So in the end, you get what comes naturally to a "compromise", an intention to please both sidea and an outcome that pleases neither side.
     
  38. Siteswap

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    There are a lot of EC users who just dont get it (MalagAste is the main protagonist), so for all of you here is the low down:

    EC will never be accepted by the masses and will never be the sole UO client. Fact.

    Here is the solution:
    Bin the EC, much as they did KR before it.

    Where do they go from there?
    Answer:

    Start from scratch. Design a new client on a new platform that is adaptable and flexible but start with this premise ... import the CC look and feel. If a staright "copy and paste" is impossible then redesign every existing CC pixel and incorporate it into the new client. Once you have REPLICATED the CC look and feel into a modern client then build in the macros, interface options, resolutions and options that are desirable (including those available in UO Assist) and Voila...

    you have a client that 99% of the user base will adopt.

    If you dont do this then you are stuck with the 2 client situation that we have now ... there is no other option.
     
  39. Requiem_baja

    Requiem_baja Visitor

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    The thing I dont like about the EC (aside from no range check on spells) is that when my char runs he it looks more like he ground is moving under him, not like he is moving over the ground if that makes sense. Kind of like a old movie with a motorcycle scene ya know where it looks like the background is just scrolling and the bike isnt really moving.
     
  40. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    If they bin yet another client they will loose players, No doubt about it. They need to develop a client everyone will use, THEN remove EC or whatever.

    If they removed the EC client tomorrow and said a new client will be ready in 2011 I won't be playing until then, Simple as that. EA are stuck now as people like EC and people like CC.
     
  41. Siteswap

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    Well yes. Obviously.
     
  42. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Leave the Classic Client classic, and keep the Enhanced Client enhanced.

    ----

    Professionally speaking I can tell you that it would be much easier to put a CC graphics option into EC than put EC functionality backwards into CC.

    This is the whole reason they've tried to make a new game client on a new engine. The CC is a leaky, unstable mess to code. If you fix one thing, you break ten things. Programming the CC is like Jenga, whereas programming the EC is like Lego.

    ----

    The reason new clients have been canceled in the past, the absolute bottom line, is they were never widely accepted. You can argue why they weren't accepted on individual merit, but that doesn't alter the outcome.

    If everyone who normally uses CC played one character in EC, any one, and took an active interest in improving the client, perhaps the developers would allot more resources to it. Perhaps we'd end up with something that would suit everyone, or most people, without resorting to cheap tricks or horrible compromise.

    There are plenty of popular character builds that are simple to set up and utterly brilliant to use in EC. In some respects, it puts CC+UO:A to shame, as it should. Also there is plenty of support, documentation, and helpful people willing to coach you through the transition. Other characters can be more challenging to master in EC, but actually trying those and building on suggestion and feedback would be the smart way to get the problems addressed.
     
  43. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    The classic client is the only client that matters. Any other attempt at a client is doomed to failure.

    Instead of trying to ruin the only worthwhile client, why not implement things from the superior client into the inferior?
     
  44. canary

    canary Guest

    Well, that sounds good and all, but I don't think that the development team has really proven that they'd actually, you know, commit to further EC client development to make the actual jump it requires to be viable for the majority.

    They need to build something that is enticing before they can ask people to truly embrace it. It's like asking someone to spend a night in a hotel without beds because, you know, after a while they might possibly afford some to use (with no actual guarantees, of course). The hotel might have a nice pool, a big TV, wonderful continental breakfast... but the whole 'sleeping' part of the hotel stay is really, really important.
     
  45. WhityJinn

    WhityJinn Guest

    It seems the EC users have an unfair advantage over CC users.Grid view, right-click looting.
    Wow, and I was wondering why am I unable to loot anything of value while pvming with a group.
     
  46. canary

    canary Guest

    Well, it IS called 'enhanced', you know.

    But I do think as long as they are willfully supporting two clients they need to be mindful that one is not overpowering the other. There was an event on my shard some time ago that was dependent on people being the first to loot a chest after monsters were killed, and the EC users pretty much had carte blanche in that situation. Going into the event with no knowledge that this was necessary did give the EC users pretty much an 'unfair advantage' to classic users, though not illegal by any means, obviously.
     
  47. WhityJinn

    WhityJinn Guest

    nah, its not called 'enhanced', its 'trammelized'.

    It makes me want to vomit when I think that while I have to carefully move things in one`s pack to see if there is something below that robe, the guy with EC just sees all items on grid, and can pick and steal the most valuable.
    WAT?

    or when I kill someone I try to open their corpse and find the, say, powerscroll as quick as possible before his buddies jump at me, that guy with the grid view just right-clicks the powerscroll on the corpse and stealths away, grinning.
    Wow!.
     
  48. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    The CC it's a piece of museum. Trying to put the EC function into the CC is like put the Ferrari engine into a wooden cart... you can do that, but it's not so simple :D
     
  49. WhityJinn

    WhityJinn Guest

    EC looks ugly and is ugly.
     
  50. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Actually, being the one to nab the majority of the skull fragments during that event, I can debunk the notion that the EC had anything to do with that.

    Right-click looting only works with corpses, so I still had to click & drag to get the fragments.

    Object handles and coordination through Ventrilo is what counted the most.