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Best Survivability outfit : what would it be ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Assuming that one is not interested in offensive power but would want to focus entirely on defensive modifiers to make the best survivability outfit possible with the existing items and artifacts what would it be ?

    I would imagine first and foremost all resistances maxed out to 70% but since most likely this defensive outfit will want to have protection always on, what would the resistances have to be to take this into account in order to still end up with 70 across the board while having protection always on ?

    What would then be most important ? Defense Chance Increase ? Faster Cast Recovery and Faster Casting ? Hit Lower Attack ? Hit Point Increase & Hit Point Regeneration ? Reflect Physical Damage ? Strength Bonus ?

    Maxed out to what levels ?

    A Curse Removal Talisman always on is a must ?

    What items/artifacts would be needed to put together a really top notch survival outfit that focuses on defensive ability and disregards offensive ability ?

    Something that could let one even survive several hits of a direct attack of a Peerless boss or even a simultaneous gank of 5-6 players at least to give enough time to escape or recall away.

    Suggestions ?

    By the way, is there any utility which helps a player build up an outfit depending on the outcome wanted, identifying what items/artifacts would be needed to put it together ?
     
  2. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Ditch RPD... if you're going for max defense, then the effect from RPD will be lessened to pointlessness and be wasting a mod space.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thanks for the hint.

    But what modifiers should be conisdered as top priority and what others as not so important besides RPD ?

    Since a compromise must be made, it is necessary to identify what modifiers would be a real must for defense and what can be possibly sacrificed either partially or totally for the best defense possible.
     
  4. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    You get bored a lot Popp's?

    You make a lot of posts about nothing.
     
  5. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    For the suit itself, I would think that DCI and HPR would be two of the top two, then HP, Str, Dex and Stam increases, Stamina regen.

    Also the Leeches are probably a good idea as well especially mana and life leeches on the weapon.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmm... but the leeches would only work if one actually engaged combat and when one is overwhelmed by enemies, be them NPCs or players, wasting precious time to engage combat might not be a good idea especially since the template focus is on defense, not offense and so there is little chance to be winning fights.

    This really should be a build to withstand being hit by multiple enemies all at once either with ranged weapons, spells or even directly with melee and survive well for at least a few minutes to give time to either recall away or run away without getting killed.

    I am trying to find a build that could even survive a multiple gank of 5-6 enemies all trying to kill their target at once or withstand the attack of a high end MOB like for example a Peerless at least for a short while like a few minutes.
     
  7. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    It seems like your asking for pvp and pvm, these are two different worlds(literally). No one can survive 5-6 experienced pvp'ers in a gank unless they can seperate them(i.e. Run).

    For pvp:
    Mage
    2/6 casting, 35-65 dci, anat 100 or wrestle or weap skill or Mage weapon 120, suit in the 60's, parry 120 with a shield equipped and over 80 dex when cursed. Some enhanced pots on suit and the ability to drink them. This temp can withstand alot.

    Dexxer
    This really depends on the temp you are running but I'd say 45-65 dci, suit in the 70's, parry, enhance pots, bushi.

    Hit lower attack of 40-50 wouldn't hurt either but isn't by any means necessary. Lastly a decent xhealing Mage buddy can do wonders for any temp :p
     
  8. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    An all 100% everything, with all mods at 100 and says "Crarted by the Hand of GOD" and has duribility of 1 zillion and takes no damage. That is probley the only suit you would ever need without asking more questions. For someone that has played UO for so long you really know nothing.
     
  9. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Better make sure your pet can survive too, popps.
     
  10. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    I'm pretty sure dci is capped at 45. I just checked it again to make sure.
     
  11. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Tina, shame on me. I forgot all about his pet. Hand of GOD make pet for popps that does 1000 damage and can never die and only takes 1 control slot.:D
     
  12. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I'd recommend at least 110 weapon/wrestling skill, to lower the chance to get hit.
    Also, Voice of the Fallen King and Bracelet of Health for HP Regen.
    Other HP Regen armor.
    Heart of the Lion and/or jewelry/shield to max out DCI (45%).
    All resists up to 70 (with Protection, Magic Reflect, and decent armor).
    Spellweaving.
     
  13. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    You are absolutly correct dci is capped at 45. The affect of hit lower defense drops dci by 20, you can overcap dci to 65 to negate the affects of this mod since just about every dexxer pvp'ing has this mod either on suit or weapon. This is also why lightning strike is 55 hci to negate the mod of hit lower attack which I believe is capped at 55.(personally never seen over 47). Have a good one :D.
     
  14. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I lasted quite a while against 4 red BC on Great Lakes a while back, lol.
     
  15. sikooovision

    sikooovision Guest

    .....

    I understand what your saying, but let's not forget that sometimes the best Defense is a good Offense.
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    What makes you think it was about a tamer and not for some other more creative use ?
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Would you kindly share what outfit and modifiers allowed you to survive a ganking attack and for how long ?

    Thanks.
     
  18. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Because creative and you, don't mix.
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thanks.

    So, to sum it up with the various replies, I seem to understand that an exceptional survivability outfit would need :

    - An all 70% Resistances suit (what about with Protection on ? How do the resistances need to account for this ?)
    - No Reflect Physical Damage
    - Maxed Defense Chance Increase (65 to counter Hit Lower Defense and still stay at the 45 CAP)
    - Maxed Hit Point Regeneration (Is there a CAP ?)
    - As many Hit Points, Strength, Dexterity and Stam increases as possible
    - Stamina regeneration
    - 120 Parry with a Shield and Weapon equipped. But then how can one drink potions ?
    - 120 Magic Resistance
    - Possibly 120 Wrestling

    Anything else to keep in mind ?

    Also, are there any utilities that help customizing a template keeping track of all of the artifacts, items and modifiers in the game according to one's own goal ?

    Like a Template Builder editor or something like that.
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    You know me so well ?
    So what would be my main character name, for example ?
    Do I play with a Guild ? Which one is it ?
     
  21. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Well enough; all you seem to do is start threads where you feel the need to complain.

    To be honest I don't think you even play the game considering the questions you ask.

    If you want a profile from me, I would say you're lonely and you come here to chat.
     
  22. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    If you're not making a tamer, then you might be considering making a stealth thief/herder with big plans to steal scrolls from all the rich Feluccans.
     
  23. Zero Day

    Zero Day Guest

    Magery (110)
    Evalint (100)
    Parry(100)
    Wrestling (120)
    Chivalry (80)
    Meditation(110)
    Ninjitsu 100

    Assuming 20 Points from account age
    suit resits
    Physical 65+
    Fire 85
    Cold 65+
    Poison 75+
    Energy 67+

    Max LMC
    DCI 65
    Stam regen 2-4 (8-10 would be really nice)

    Dci 15 SC Shield




    Boxes
    Pots + Enhance pots item
    Enhanced bandaids
    Apples
     
  24. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It is a possibility, although current existing hacks that make a stealther perfectly visible to the player using the hack make it not currently usable, there could also be other possible uses.....
     
  25. Serafi

    Serafi Babbling Loonie
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    Not that I am aware of but you can easily make one yourself. At least make one that lists different items and what you get in total from them. I have used an excel spreadsheet for this.
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    How exactly do Chivalry and Ninjitsu help in surviving gank attacks of multiple players ?


    Sholdn't physical be higher to account for a Protection spell always on ?


    Why the max Lower Mana Count ?
    If the template needs to focus on survival so as to have time to escape the scene there is no need to really have to cast for an extended period of time.

    It is more about being able to "tank" more the hits received either melee or from spells.

    So, number one the template should need to REDUCE the damage done (hit points received) by an attacking party, and number 2 there should be high Hit Point Regeneration which is passive and still works while one is exiting the scene.

    Casting obliges one to freeze and be unable to move thus slowing down exiting the scene.

    Or am I thinking in the wrong direction here ?



    All these i agree with as they can be life savers, although, you mention Enhanced bandaids but the template you suggest has no healing skill whatsoever.
     
  27. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    For ninjitsu, the poster above probably means using mirror images.

    I use it on my main stealth mage in conjunction with hiding/stealth/smokebombs for max survivability.

    I have crappy resists on my mage too, my main defense is being very sneaky!
     
  28. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    suit-wise, you can get 45% DCI (sufficient for PvM) from Fey leggings, aegis of grace and a quiver of infinity, allowing you to use your hand slots and jewelry for other purposes, and you get +10 Resisting Spells from the Aegis as well. Both are available in human-usable versions.

    You can get +15 parry from an ancient samurai do & Dupre's shield combo as well, if you go for having the Parry skill for defense.
     
  29. Ignoring that the most defensive thing is probably to just be a Stealther and stay hidden...

    Protection is -14 Phys for humans and -15 Phys for elfs (because of Jack Of All Trades Inscription). Though having it on all the time is not the best thing to do.
    Hit Point Regen can be 18 on items, 2 from being human and Ninjitsu Cat/Dog form with 120 skill can give another 40 for a total of 60 HPR which is 6 HP per second.
    120 Ninjitsu & Mirror Images gives a 90% chance to divert melee attacks.
    Corpse Skin is +10/-15/+10/-15/0.
    Wraith Form is +15/-5/0/0/-5.
    120 Wrestle or Defensive Wrestle (220 points between Eval & Anat) so you can't be disarmed.
    120 Parry & over 80 Dex.
    45 DCI or 70 DCI in PvP (HLD is -25).
    50 Enhance Potion & GM Alchemy for 80 E.P - Alchemy gives you 30 E.P & raises the cap.
    150 Dex & Bandages - to allow for Curse not dropping below 140.
    120 Resist.
    150 Str + 25 HP increase items + Wolf Form for 170 HP.
    4/6 Casting Chiv, Ninja, Spellweaving.
    Attunement & Renewal wether with skill or Jack Of All Trades.
    100 RPD hard to build but stacks with Blood Oath, not always effective, most weapons have split damage types and so do most monsters.
    Enchanted Apples.
    Damage Removal Talisman (bleed/mortal/poison/strangle) - 30 minute recharge but an extra remove (found on Bloodwood Spirit & Primer).
    Evasion.

    (& in case its not obvious this is just a list of defensive stuff, not 'a' template or 'a' suit)
     
  30. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    :wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

    EDIT: The most defensive thing is to delete UO from your computer. Do it popps, please.
     
  31. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That is actually a very good and helping list, thank you.

    I wonder what would be the best combination of those defensive skills and modifiers that you indicated in order to put up the best survivable possible template....

    For example, assuming that one goes for the max possible hit Point Regeneration possible of a max of 6 HPs per second (with Ninjitsu Cat/Dog form with 120 skill), assuming that a party of 4 enemies would be attacking what is the damage that reasonably a template should be defending from ?

    Assuming that the attackers are capable of high damage, should one consider as each of the 4 enemies as capable of dealing some 50-60 hit points of damage per hit ?

    That would make it all 4 enemies together for some 200-240 hit points damage althougether per hit.

    How could a template all focused on defense possibly tackle so much damage all at once to stay alive ?

    Would having the max of 45 Defense Chance increase mean that the 200-240 is reduced of 45% down to 110-132 damage per hit from the 4 enemies althougether ?

    Still a whole lot of damage to withstand....

    How could all this simultaneous damage be further reduced so as to make it absorbable by the defending template ?

    If only there was a Template Editor utility to help players navigate through the difficulties to put up a good template and choosing the most fitting items and modifiers according to one's own goals..........
     
  32. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Oh, there is one. It's called "Excel".
     
  33. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That sounds as if it was the easiest thing in the world to do.......

    Perhaps many players are not familiar with Excel and would not have the fainthest idea of how to combine all of the data and formulas in a workable and reliable format ??

    I can see that Stratics kindly offers a number of utilities to players of this game, I wonder why a Template Build Editor has not yet made it within the list of the offered utilities...
     
  34. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    popps, go play WoW. The game will hold your hand and tell you everything you need to know.

    UO doesn't need you, UO doesn't want you. And quite frankly the majority of stratics think the same.
     
  35. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Because all of the scripts and hacks that are available for Ultima Online do not make the game a WHOLE LOT easier for those who use them ?

    Really ??????????????

    What should one think seeing how scripts and hacks are used in UO by how many players, but a Build Template Editor available to all players playing the game would be outrageous because it would hold players hand when playing the game ?

    Excuse me ? I do not get it.
     
  36. DCI doesn't reduce damage, it reduces the amount of times you are hit by melee (& archer) attacks.

    You can't take (as in literally take those damage numbers per hit) and live, the best chance you would have other than moving away from it, would be Evasion & Mirror Images. With those you need to be able to resummon fast, not run out of mana & heal instantly while their attacks are diverted.

    That equates to a 4/6 Chiv/Ninja with Evasion & Med.

    120 Weapon
    120 Bushido
    120 Parry
    120 Ninjitsu
    65 Chiv (100% Sacred Journey & below)

    You said no offense so I took Tactics out. You could then add Resist & Med, to avoid Mana Drains, Poisons, Blood Oaths.

    120 Resist
    55 Med

    Though if you consider the Resist not worth it you could make the character more viable by having

    90 Tactics
    85 Med

    Thats for 720 skill points.

    & in group PvM theres an additional problem in that (in Tram) for some stupid reason other peoples EV's and area damage kill your Mirror Images.

    I had a 4/6 Chiv/Ninja PvP Dexxer before and just with Images & Chiv it could fight certain things easier than a Sampire. When you divert attacks to Images it has to retarget you while you continue hitting throughout. So working Honor on Balrons for example is much simpler, as you don't have to build perfection until you're leeching sufficiently.

    The 4/6 Ninjitsu also allows you to change forms quicker as the regen forms and even poison forms are often sufficient for spawning levels.
     
  37. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmm.... then you mean that there is no way to build a template that even when hit by 4 other players all ganking their target would survive the multiple 4 players' attack ?

    I mean, no armor or skills can ever make it possible to absorb the damage done by 4 other players all hitting the same target at once ?

    Even when renouncing to any particular offensive ability and modifiers to focus purely on defense ?

    The only way is to pop up mirror images so as to confuse the 4 players party of gankers ?

    My concern with this, is that to build up the Mirror images it takes time and in the meantime the 4 enemies only need to score 1 hit each of them and all 4 together on the right target to kill......

    If it was possible I'd rather prefer to build up the best possible tank outfit. A damage absorbing sponge.....

    How much damage could such an outfit realistically absorb per hit ? 100 hit points all at once ? 150 ? More ?

    Thanks for all the good info, by the way.
     
  38. It wasn't clear, until now, that you were thinking specifically in PvP. Specifically you're asking how can you fight 4 dexxers and not die? Short answer is if they're PvPers you can't. They'll co-ordinate their attacks, parra, dismount, disarm, mortal, ai, concussion. Aside from resistances (which is kind of a given for anything) the only real 'absorb' in game is Attunement.

    I think you're now looking at something like Wrestle/Parry/Spellweaver/Ninja.
     
  39. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    What he is saying, popps, is that to be able to escape 4 decent gankers, you need to put yourself in a position to not be hit. Parry, evade, Magic Resist, Mirror Images are the ways to make sure that those people DO NOT land each and every hit while you run like a little girl (don't mistake, running like a little girl in the face of a gank is NOT a bad thing!)

    You also need to heal FAST, which means that having protection on always is NOT in your best interest. With 4/6 casting & chiv and pots, you should be able to survive long enough to escape.

    If you are looking to just let the gankers beat on you ... well, nothing is going to keep you alive.
     
  40. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am not trying to find a way to have a fight against 4 other PvPers and win it too...

    I am trying to see how much would it be possible to push a defense focused template and stay alive as much as possible to either run away, stealth away or recall away....

    For example, say that one is a stealth miner or a stealth lumberjack, while on one's own in felucca mining/chopping 4 reds with bad intentions to gank, show up, and all at once target and hit me.

    I want to at least be able to survive that initial hit and perhaps the subsequent one or couple of ones so as to get enough time to run away, hide and then stealth my way out of that situation alive or, be able to have time to recall away.

    Perhaps rephrasing my original question might help.

    With the artifacts, items, modifiers and skills currently existing in the game, what would be the maximum damage ever possible to absorb in one hit putting together a template all focused on defense and survivability ?

    Could such a template survive a 200 hit points attack ? A 150 hit points attack ?

    Bottom line is, putting together all the best defending stuff there is out there how much damage could such a template withstand in one cumulative hit ?
     
  41. The Mirror Images aren't to confuse them, they give a 90% chance that they will not only miss but in missing lose their target. Which although they will have you on AttackLast still makes it harder for them to chase & special. At 4/6 they come out plenty quick enough.
     
  42. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Alrigh, but doesn't casting any spell need one to STOP and freeze while casting?

    Even with 4/6 that still slows down one's own run and with PvPers using speedhacks....

    Also, how would the chivalry spell in that staying alive while escaping the gank ?

    By the way, does it sound as too low only to me the fact that with all Hit Points Regen maxed out only a mere 6 points per seconds get healed back up ?

    I mean, 1 attacker can do waaaaaaaaaay more damage than that per second....

    Perhaps Hit Point Regen is overrated and not really much usefull as it is ?
     
  43. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    The purpose of HPR is NOT to be your only healing agent. Its a little extra help, that is all. With 4/6 casting, Close Wounds is virtually instant and will not significantly interupt your running. If you have max karma, it will heal for a good lot.

    Alternately, if you are wanting a mage, your casting can only be 2/6, however the "mini" heal will cast virtually instantly to help you live long enough to run. (LG kept me and 2 other alive in one of the new champ spawns using almost strictly mini heals and JOAT Gift of Renewal)

    Any human character can do the spellweaving quest and have attunement, which will absorb a certain amount of damage. If that character is NOT a mage, then it will benefit from 4/6 casting. Otherwise, it would have 2/6
     
  44. Your posts #40 & #42 seem to contradict. In one you say you're recalling straight out, in the other you're running in circles worrying about healing?

    If all you're aiming to do when someone shows up is live long enough to leave then you shouldn't be wasting time Healing. If you're in a regen form that prevents you from recalling anyway.

    There are ways they can stop you leaving straight away:
    Kill you: if you have no resists and no melee defense 4 of them one hit each would probably kill you, so maybe have 120 Wrestle (they can't Disarm that) and all 70's, I'd think DCI & Parry were overkill in this situation
    Parra you (including nerve etc): use a trap box
    Mana vamp you: have resist
    Interrupt you: use protection (an extra 14 or 15 Phys on the suit to still be all 70's, depending on if you're elf or human, as I pointed out earlier) You don't need Magery you can cast it from a scroll.
     
  45. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    popps, are you aware that for a few years now, you have been unable to remain stealthed while mining or lumberjacking?
     
  46. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    popps clearly has no clue about ANY of the game's mechanics. He doesn't know how to play the game (in other terms he's a newb) even though he's been playing for 6(?) years. popps also thinks that every single PvPer is cheating or has to be cheating just to have some kind of chance. He also thinks that most of the game's content sucks. He messes up threads and clutters the forum with his "serious" posts where he whines about issue X.

    Is he seriously serious or is he just a very, very good troll? Can we make a petition to IP ban him? I, for one, don't like the "end product" we get which is threads / posts where his ignorance and idiotism shines like a bright light..
     
  47. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Tina, deep breath.:wall: You are assuming that he plays the game. I am assuming that he reads about it and then posts here. and it still makes me want to :wall:
     
  48. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thank you again for your replies, you are really a good source of informations on the issue.
    Basically, I am considering the various possible ways to exit the scene in one piece.

    That would be either running, hiding and stealthing away OR, running to a spot far enough to be able to cast and so recall away.

    Though, I have a feeling that if speedhacking is used so much as I hear, outrunning a party of 4 trying to all kill me sounds not reasonable nor feasible.

    So, the only options seems to be running that much to be able to hide and then stealth away hoping that the hacks which make anyone hidden as visible are not as popular as speedhacking....


    What do you mean in regen form one cannot heal ? Are you referring to the ninja dog/cat form ?

    Well, if I cross out recalling as too difficult to achieve in such a situation and focus on stealthing, than I assume the Elf would be better as they are less revealable when stealthing.

    So, what I would need is enough tanking (ability to absorb as much damage as possible) to withstand the initial attack and have time to run away and hide/stealth and move my way out of the area.

    How could this best be achieved and how much damage would be feasible and conceivable to withstand in one attack or concentrated attack of 4 other players ?
     
  49. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Not talking about mining while being stealthed but of having stealth as a way to leave the area should things turn nasty......
     
  50. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

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    I hope you haven't forgotten about the need to be able to push through, go around or otherwise avoid characters in Fel intent on boxing you in with their bodies or other stuff. Even your own pets have the ability to box you in if you aren't prepared for it.