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Blue Bards peacing and discoing Blue pets, in Fel no less!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Widow Maker, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Months and Months go by and the Dev team fails to act properly. How long must we wait!!!!!!!

    Boys and Girls, it is imperative that you make any blue bard go grey for peacing or discoing any Blue pet in Fel. You know it is right..just get it done.
     
  2. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    /singed

    I also think anyone healing someone grey to me should become grey to me.

    The ward removal shoudl also flag
     
  3. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    lol...since when is discord or peacemaking considered an attack? they are both passive skills...

    if you dont like it, then dont play a tamer!

    on the flip side, how would you feel if provoke was made viable again in PvP?
     
  4. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    Discord should flag players atleast to the pet owner if not everyone. Direct peacemaking should do the same, but not area peace since it'll peace friendly pets/dexers too.

    I think it'd be fun and maybe add a new level to champ spawns if you could provoke spawn onto other players, providing that doing so flagged you to the person you targeted.


    Yes I have a tamer but not for pvp. I used my tamer once in pvp and found it funny that my dragon was killing so fast, but also very boring for me minus the laughs.
     
  5. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    There is a fine line between passive skills...and agressive skills. If you wish to bark up that tree, then what of herding? (rhetor.)

    In regards to provoke in PvP...you used to be able to provoke a players pet onto another pet or player. Alas, people complained...cried...here on UOHall and even provoke was nerfed.

    Sorry...but I dont wish to see a repeat of what happened with provo...that line should not be drawn.
     
  6. If peacemaking is an aggressive act then it isn't peacemaking. Would area peace need changing to area flag?

    I'd like to see provoke in PvP.
     
  7. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Yet another disco/peace thread that people FAIL to see that Discord is not just a passive skill...


    Look at what discord does to pets. It's similar to CURSE/CORPSE SKIN. Both of which do FLAG you as an aggressor. Why shouldn't discord do the SAME? In essence it's the SAME thing as those spells that make you flag.

    With the PvP tamers aside. Don't people realize it's the SAME thing as Curse/Corpse skin pretty much?

    Put the hate for PvP tamers OUT of this conversation and pull your heads out of your arse and realize that discord SHOULD be a flaggable offense.
     
  8. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    I would agree i would like to see disco back in pvp it shoudl be an agressive act but a bard should be able to provoke a tamers pets back on him. Just call all players max barding difficulty. forgot what the number is but something like 150 isnt it?

    Discord is agressive period. We could argue the point about peace making and both of us would have valid points
     
  9. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    It can be countered...FYI...ward removal FTW!

    In addition...it isn't in itself an attack. debuff maybe...but indirectly...with music nonetheless. again, its a fine line I know...and considering the line the way it is now...discorders are useful in pvp. If you don't like others having the ability to counter your template, you really should consider staying out of fel. Every template SHOULD have a counter...regardless of your likes or dislikes on WHY something is done.
     
  10. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    And what happens when your ward removal tali runs out of uses? And the bard can continue to disco away with no risk at all.

    I don't encounter disco bards often. Only at Yew gate when the enemies are getting wtfpwnt (not just by me) and one of them gets their blue bard.

    Ok, so it's a debuff, then wtf is Curse? It's a debuff as well. And corpse skin? Another debuff... they're all pretty much the same so you can't argue that one is an attack and the other is only a debuff. Curse does no direct damage, it's not an attack, it's a debuff, same with corpse skin, same with disco.

    So there is a counter to Disco. That still doesn't solve that you can be BLUE and NOT be attacked for DEBUFFING/ATTACKING a blue pet. There is something wrong with that.
     
  11. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Discord should only make the bard aggro the pet...not its tamer. Making the argument moot on several levels.

    Again, due to complaint...provoking was nerfed beyond usability in the past...and what you are asking is to effectively pull another barding template out as well. The only reason being that someone was unhappy...period.
     
  12. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    just get outta fel then would you? I am sick and tired of people crying. tram is ------->....please take your complaints there or else play another template if the one you play is not working for you.

    In this game you take the good with the bad, and learn to deal with the in between.

    BTW...ward removal tallys are a dime a dozen.

    On the same subject, shouldnt ward removal tallys flag then according to your logic?...should all thieves go grey even from sucessful thefts? its a big grey area...deal with it.
     
  13. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I've always played in Fel.

    Even if I didn't have a tamer i'd still agree that this should be a flaggable offense. Think about it... how many times do I have to reiterate what DISCORD actually does? If you don't flag for discord on someone's pet then you SHOULDN'T flag on a blue pet for Cursing it or throwing Corpse Skin on it. They all are very similar in effect. So change them all to be the same and call it good.

    I'm ok if you discord a blue pet and the pet can then attack you, as long as the pet DOES attack and doesn't just sit there following the tamer. But what would happen if that tamer discords it while in the GZ? Like they typically do.

    I see discording a main problem only at Yew gate. Out in the field/spawning, people don't take the time to go get a discorder because it's not as easy to do.

    I don't like hanging around the gate as it's a lame gank fest both ways.
     
  14. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Why would ward removal flag you if you're taking off a curse/corpse skin/discord? That doesn't make sense unless the pet is grey.

    That's like saying you should flag for casting Bless on your pet.

    Sure ward removal tally's are a dime a dozen, who wants to carry around a bunch of insured talismans though?
     
  15. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I think you need some cheese for that whine. Leave the damn bards alone, and accept that there are things that work in your favor and some that do not. Learn to adapt to the things that dont work for you...rather than requesting change. This isn't "U" Online...its UO Online.
     
  16. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Think about it...for someone who has spent as much time in fel as you...you should know this!

    Inscribe buffs...Vamp form...dog form...wraith form...want me to keep going or do you get where I am going with this?

    Who wants to carry them? Every PvPer should carry at least one in their pack! That is...every PvPer who is PREPARED TO BE IN FEL.
     
  17. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    By the way you're defending this so adamantly i'm guessing you have a blue discorder too Cowboy.

    Wth are you trying to say here? And why should ward removal flag if I were to use it on a blue pet? It's like casting remove curse/bless on a blue pet.

    If I were to remove curse/ward removal on a red pet, I would flag grey, since i'm casting a beneficial act onto a flagged pet. However, if it's blue, I stay blue.

    A mage casting Curse on a blue person, turns grey. A necro casting Corpse Skin on a blue, turns grey. A discorder casting discord on a blue pet should turn grey.

    A blue casting Bless to counter Curse on a blue stays blue. A paladin casting remove curse on a blue, remains blue. A blue casting Bless on a red pet to counter Curse turns grey.
     
  18. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    I think the poster was referring to using a ward removal talisman to knock another person out of form or remove their benifical buffs such as protection.
     
  19. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Does ward removal take someone out of a casted form? If so, I wasn't aware of that...
     
  20. If were gonna make these aggressive acts then "all kill" should be as well.

    If "all kill" is said in a guard zone....."insta-wack"!

    If they are gonna be aggro acts, compared dumbly to harm, then GIMME LOOT RIGHTS for same actions in pvm.

    Since we billy bad you-know-what bards AINT gettin this, I vote NO on aggro.

    I could see aggro'n to the pet only, but that wouldnt go very well with said tamer.....for a good reason.....hehehe.....muhahaha!!!

    The fix is coming, they gonna nerf gr-drags in pvp!!!
    YEAH babee!!!
     
  21. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    I hope they do nerf the g dragons soon. I still hold my ground disco should flag. You say stop whinning there should be a counter to every template. well then fine how does one counter a blue bard sitting in the gaurd zone making my pets useless. I have no problem with them being able to effect my pets and i can name a couple templates that can disco a pet make short work of it and then move on to the tamer.

    to name one Bush Archery Tatics Music Disco Chiv whatever leftover you wanna use. Ive had one disco my pet enemy of one cons weapon dragon slayer bow killed dragon in 30 secs.

    instead you say my template whatever stupid taming template it is should be completly countered with no way to fight back without taking penaltys.

    lets say in a dungen when that bard discos and peaces my pets i cant even fight back without taming a murder count.
     
  22. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    There is no rightful argument to this issue. It is a debuff being cast by a blue character on another blue character. It is simply indefensible. i would love to see a Dev step in and give us an answer as to why it is allowed or finally acknowledge that it needs to be put on the fix now agenda.
     
  23. archite666

    archite666 Guest

    Forget this completly until they fix pets on general, pets are overpowered, it only make sence that the skills to counter them are broken, at least it is a step in making it fair.

    Heres an idea, put away the dragon in fel and you wont have to worry about it.
     
  24. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    as much as i hate this i would have to agree its a necaccery evil till pets are fixed
     
  25. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    I am all for the disco flagging you but ONLY if i can disco YOU the player, pets are difrent need disco on them bigg dragons to have a decent survival chance.

    So no its not like curse or corpse skin its disco it will not work on a player and thus its not offencive :scholar:
     
  26. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    This is funny because the one place I DONT bother to take a discorder is Yew gate .... we ALWAYS have one at spawns and harry's ... usually two ... specifically to counter the pets people bring But then I also IMMEDIATELY attack the pet (usually with one of my own - cu's EAT g'drags alive after a disco), so I flag anyway :)
     
  27. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    I have had my gdragon discoed and killed many a time at despise so no its not just at yew gate. And what about the guilds that roll with a disco char to kill camps with being able to disco every pet that comes near them
     
  28. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    The issue is not whether to be able to disco a pet or not. The issue is that if a blue does it on a blue pet, then they would need to flag just as if they had cast curse on it.
     
  29. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    It is fun. I do it all the time. It also flags me when I do. Then again they are almost always red anyway and I don't give counts so it's a moot point.
     
  30. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Ooh! I :heart: my blue bard! :D

    120 Discord
    120 Provo
    120 Peace or Spellweaving (soul stones are full of win & awesome)
    120 Music
    + Magery skills

    My blue bard is loved and hated in pretty equal measures.

    Balance in all things. *nod nod*
     
  31. zamot

    zamot Seasoned Veteran
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    OK for those of you that think Discord and curse are the same and do the same thing you are wrong. Discord lowers skills and resists while curse lowers STAT's and Resists. Also you can cast curse on any mobile in game. while you can not discord a Players character. You can get looting rights from casting curse while you cannot get looting rights from discord.

    I am assuming that since discord does not lower a pets hit points that this is the cause of not flagging. If the Developers wish to change this I would hope that they would also let the discord be effective on players.

    well that should be all for now.
     
  32. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    We need to fix things in a logical order, rather than pander to the needs of a few disgruntled PvP tamers:

    Firstly, the full tamer balance pass needs to be in place. Bards wouldn't be necessary if tamers were balanced fairly with others.

    Secondly, tamers who use the guardzones to score easy kills need to be balanced. Yew gate tamers on their own justify keeping disco exactly as it is. Until that's fixed, the bards are necessary to deal with those tamers.

    Then, and only then, should bards be changed. But I don't see the need to flag bards to everyone. But I'm used to playing a thief, so flagging doesn't concern me in the least.

    What makes me laugh is that nerfing bards won't stop the tamer from having his pets discorded. Even at Yew gate, when a pet comes out the guardzone to attack a red, the bard has a perfect opportunity to disco it. It's not like the tamer is going to come out the GZ after the bard, or that the reds will attack someone on their side. If anything, making disco an aggressive act might help the bard if the pet then tries to attack them in defence. The bard can disco and lure the pet away from its owner at the same time...

    And of course, if discoing a pet flags you, that might scupper said PvP tamer from using disco training to train his pets up to begin with. Potentially you could be guardwhacked for discoing your pets in town, or attacked by them if you disco during training. That doesn't concern me, because I'm not into training pets these days, but I'm sure it'll annoy those players who haven't the patience for training pets the slow way.

    Maybe the reason the devs haven't changed bards is that they realise flagging bards will only create problems and solve nothing.

    Wenchy
     
  33. GL-Player

    GL-Player Guest

    Actually, when enticement was first changed to discord failing an attempt would make a monster aggro on the discorder. Took about 5 mins to get used to, then it wasnt to bad.

    Then of course , the whining ensued..

    All they have to do is make it so failing an attempt aggros. Lets face it, if a tamer has any real player skill at all, this should be a non-issue. no offense
     
  34. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    They should only do this once pets are not overpowered in PVP.


    ...
     
  35. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I don't think the aggro thing is really a necessary change for bards though. After all, to maintain disco you need to be around the mob and visible. You also have a delay before you can use other barding skills, even if you fail. Plenty of time for mobs/players to attack. Then if you're going to provo mobs after the disco, they're potentially aggroing when you fail the provo too, and you're back to waiting. Do we really need more restrictions on top of that? How much fun would that be? ;) It's a bonus for a fel bard to be able to lure a pet, but I wouldn't want tram bards to be nerfed so I could aggro pets. I think folks would just soulstone their bards off and use something more effective/fun.

    Wenchy
     
  36. BardMal

    BardMal Guest

    Is there any player character easier to kill in PvP than a bard?

    The one thing they can counter is a GD, and that is only a maybe, and momentarily.

    If you can't deal with a blue bard in fel, maybe you shouldn't go to fel.
     
  37. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Shhh, BardMal, don't be advertising our weaknesses, hon.

    'Sides, it just plain tickles me someone thinking my BARD is enough of a bada$$ to be calling down the nerf stick... :hahaha:

    "Do not make me hit another another chord on this here lute or you'll be really sorry! No, really, I MEAN it!!"

    *strum-fail-skill delay..............* Have at thee!" *POWER CHORD*

    *Your firehorn crumbles in your hands*

    Bard Fear, gotta love it.
     
  38. why not just kill them ?
     
  39. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Tell me how to kill a BLUE player in the GUARD ZONE w/out getting guardwhacked?

    That's the only place i've come in contact with a blue discorder. The guilds on my shard only bring them out at the Yew gate. Don't think i've seen them anywhere else other than there... but I don't frequent there anymore.

    Bard, a mule is easier to kill than a bard =)

    Yes, a discord bard is badd@$$ enough to call the nerf stick down when you can render a pet pretty much useless w/out any risk at all.

    I've seen blue discorders discord pets at the gate that aren't even fighting, just to be an arse.
     
  40. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    [​IMG]

    "I know what you're thinking- "Did she burn six uses or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But, being this is an exceptional harp, the most powerful instrument on this facet and would blow your ears clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?"

    :hahaha:
     
  41. "Tell me how to kill a BLUE player in the GUARD ZONE w/out getting guardwhacked?"

    stay away from gate huggers go do a champ spawn
    then kill them :)
     
  42. BardMal

    BardMal Guest

    LOL hot coffee out my nose! Too funny the visualization of Clint Eastwood/ Dirty Harry with a harp in his pocket!
     
  43. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Funny you should say that.... If I was to turn your post around, I'd say you're wanting to flag the bards so they can't disco pets inside the guardzone. Yet what about the unkillable tamer who attracted the bard to begin with? Why does he deserve to be invulnerable while he picks off red players? He's blue and the most you risk with a disco'd pet is the pet death. Not your own.

    Yep, I've never seen a disco bard outside Yew gate, and oddly enough have never had my pets disco'd in Fel. Which suggests the bards are there purely to deal with cowardly tamers and fully justifies keeping bards exactly as they are. Invulnerable tamers make blue disco bards necessary, whether you like that or not.

    A disco'd pet isn't useless, if you train your pets up first, even with disco'd skills they're capable of killing players. If someone bothers you inside the guardzone, take your pets out of it and then they'll be just fine.

    Seriously though, how many tamers go to Yew gate and walk out the guardzone to fight properly? By properly I mean putting themselves at risk of death by going outside the guardzone and staying there. The bard isn't just being an arse, he knows full well as I do, that a tamer popping out of Yew gate is after easy red kills. If he didn't need Yew gate to cover his arse, he wouldn't be hugging it - he'd be straight through the moongate and running around in the open looking for a fight. When he parks up in the guardzone his intentions are obvious and he's a legit target for a bard. The sooner that tamer learns to fight or moves on, the better IMO.

    Wenchy
     
  44. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Please do not play the fool. The ranks of those are far to swelled with our society's path of reverse Darwinism. Let's break down your statements:

    "Funny you should say that.... If I was to turn your post around, I'd say you're wanting to flag the bards so they can't disco pets inside the guardzone. Yet what about the unkillable tamer who attracted the bard to begin with? Why does he deserve to be invulnerable while he picks off red players? He's blue and the most you risk with a disco'd pet is the pet death. Not your own."

    Wrong on all counts. The Bard, sitting in GZ discoing and direct peacing your pet has no risk at all. They are not there to fight. The tamer, while sitting in GZ with 20 enemies waiting outside the gate area. The tamer flags on a red/grey. They get em..maybe they don't (more often don't). That player is then under attack from anyone who they aggroed (or who aggroed to their pets) on and stand a good chance of getting killed. That is fine, that is the risk. They are FAR from "unkillable"..rofl.

    "Yep, I've never seen a disco bard outside Yew gate, and oddly enough have never had my pets disco'd in Fel. Which suggests the bards are there purely to deal with cowardly tamers and fully justifies keeping bards exactly as they are. Invulnerable tamers make blue disco bards necessary, whether you like that or not."

    Don't know what shard you play on but I take my blue bard to spawns every single day. Disco the champ and stave off the raiders pets and dexxers. Highly useful. Your suggestion is thus moot and useless. The invulnerable tamers" comment was taken care of earlier and is useless as well.

    "A disco'd pet isn't useless, if you train your pets up first, even with disco'd skills they're capable of killing players. If someone bothers you inside the guardzone, take your pets out of it and then they'll be just fine."

    That entire statement is so far beyond wrong, it isn't even in the realm of anything representing right..lol. I think we are a bit less intelligent for even reading it. Lord knows what it did to you by just writing it. You may need professional help now. Do you honestly believe what you just wrote???

    "Seriously though, how many tamers go to Yew gate and walk out the guardzone to fight properly? By properly I mean putting themselves at risk of death by going outside the guardzone and staying there. The bard isn't just being an arse, he knows full well as I do, that a tamer popping out of Yew gate is after easy red kills. If he didn't need Yew gate to cover his arse, he wouldn't be hugging it - he'd be straight through the moongate and running around in the open looking for a fight. When he parks up in the guardzone his intentions are obvious and he's a legit target for a bard. The sooner that tamer learns to fight or moves on, the better IMO. "

    I was going to smash this statement as easily as the rest but it is so weak that it can't stand on its own. I trust in people's ability to spot a pathetic statement and will just leave it alone.

    Quite simple, there is absolutely no defensible position to take against the statement that a blue bard discoing or direct peacing a blue pet should absolutely go grey, at least to the tamer if not to the world at large. Since it is an attack, it should be to the world at large.
     
  45. WOW... all this noise because you want to gank people coming out of the Yew gate in Felucca? You call that PvP? That must be a LOT of fun for you.

    That is exactly what I was thinking! STEP AWAY FROM THE GATE. Seriously... the range on discord is what, about 10 tiles or so? PLEASE, change the barding game code if it needs to be done, NOT because someone can't kill someone else inside the gate guard zone.
     
  46. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Sounds to me like the tamers on your shard haven't learned the necessary tricks to staying alive then. Because you're wrong. Tamers inside the guardzone choose who they attack and when. With practice they know just when to dart for the gate and be safe. A tamer who is dumb enough to career out of the GZ when several reds are precasting is clearly going to be killed. I'm not talking about those tamers. I'm talking about the kind who are a problem. Because if tamers were as squishy as you make out, they wouldn't hang around Yew gate in the first place. Yew gate is where all the wannabes hang out, along with the house hiders.

    Honey, I have disco tamers, I know what disco does to a pet and the capability of a pet when under disco. Don't make me draw diagrams for you. Just because you can't score a kill with a disco'd pet, doesn't mean the next tamer will lose too.

    LOL. I'm guessing humility isn't your strong point....

    Read my posts. If flagging is necessary for bards that's fair enough. All I am saying is that tamers need to be balanced properly first, including the Yew gate crowd. You need to be balanced before you have the right to point the finger at a bard and demand that they get nerfed. You're not in the position to take the moral high ground on this subject. My suggestion - wait till you've been nerfed before you come crawling to UHall for sympathy.

    Wenchy
     
  47. there should be no guard zone in fel ! there i said it guard zones WERE meant to protect the innocents now there is all of tram ANYONE(yes poor miner or LJ you too) who goes into the red gate enters the known PVP area and there should be no safe haven there. take away the guard zone do away with red blue and grey and let folks who love to fight do it !
     
  48. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    The only reason I ever sit in the GZ is because i'm out numbered. Simple as that. Even on a dexer or a mage, still out numbered, even when I try to get them 1v1 they still run around waiting for their buddies to heal at the last second or to gank.

    The only pet that is still somewhat useful while under discord is a trained Greater Dragon. Which I don't use. I prefer beetle/mare combo, and even when fully trained, under discord they're just about as good as freshly tamed ones.

    Old man of uo, do you even PvP? You seem to have a lot of Tram related posts and I doubt you do PvP.

    I agree that fire breath needs to be toned down in PvP, but so does discording a blue pet and staying blue.

    What people fail to realize is that discord acts as a curse/debuff similiar to the spell curse, which WILL flag you. Now all unbalanced pet damage aside, you've got to admit it's unfair that someone can debuff a blue pet, and have no consequence.
     
  49. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

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    Take away guard zone and the majority of the blues will either not come to fel or will just sit in a house. I would like to see it where if a blue performs a benificial act on another blue that is flagged to a red then that blue also becomes flagged.

    Even if UO makes it where the bard flags to the tamer if they disco or direct peacer their pet, they will come back and complain that area peacing should also flag the bard to everyone.
     
  50. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Reds sit in houses just as much as blues. Even if it is even numbers.