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Brainstorming on Gold Sinks - Ideas you like

Discussion in 'UHall' started by RueTor, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. RueTor

    RueTor Journeyman
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    Ok DJAd's thread got me thinking on possible gold sinks (started a new thread as to not derail the search function conversation).


    Oh yeah and this was mentioned. Seems like a great idea.​

    [13/12/15][10:47:25] [Mesanna]: If we put in a secured trader​
    [13/12/15][10:48:04] [Mesanna]: would you be upset if we charged a 1% fee?​
    [13/12/15][10:48:40] [Mesanna]: we would come up with a check book that all the money would in the form of a check book​
    [13/12/15][10:48:49] [Mesanna]: or something like that in the bank​
    [13/12/15][10:49:02] [Mesanna]: Honestly we are brainstorming the ideas​
    [13/12/15][10:49:16] [Mesanna]: I have been getting alot of emails lately about this subject​
    [13/12/15][10:49:38] [Mesanna]: so thats on my list of things I want to put in the game​

    So what would you be will to say is a fair gold sink? Personally, I don't like any new tax on an existing item (i.e., tax or fee on the house you already own), but if the tax or fee is on an additional benefit such as extra storage above and beyond the existing limits that is a different story. Or a larger tax/fee based on size for an extra house on the same or different shard.

    The one I would like to see is a veteran trade in system. Currently, there is the Moonglow clothing exchange box to swap out rewards clothing. On Siege they built the Travel Agent at the Brit bank to allow exchange of tokens. So, what if you could exchange your old veteran reward for another in a like year plus a fee (1 mil per year?) based on the year/age of the gift? Account bound items should not be included as they would stop the trade in cycle.

    Just a thought... what is your idea for an acceptable sink?

    Rue Tor
     
    #1 RueTor, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  2. Sapphirediablo

    Sapphirediablo Journeyman
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    If I was doing a transaction for "large amounts of gold", say 1b, if you took 1% of that it's still a lot of gold that is being lost in the transaction. (10m gold can get you a lot of things, every GP counts) I would just use the old system we have know, find a broker that is free and rather have someone trusted do the transaction with me rather than lose the money, which then I could tip the person 0.5 % and both parties would still be head compared to the old system.


    Why not just make things safer for the players on a large or small scale without taking anything away from the seller/buyer.

    Prices would have to increase for each item to make up for the 1% loss that you would have on all transactions. That would effect even trades that aren't using the new "safer" system.

    my 2centz
     
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  3. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Personally I think adding the city titles was a great gold sink, duke is 50 million. if they could implement something like that, where no one is forced to pay the price if they don't want to but have the option to get some cool title or item to show off with, lots of gold would be removed from the game. Another idea would be an "EM Item Raffle" where the EM or Mesanna would sell tickets for whatever amount of gold, and the winner gets a cool new event item.
     
    #3 Captn Norrington, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
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  4. Felonious Monk

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    This is no viable gold sink for players who aren't rich. I understand my response doesn't address the perspective of a ruined economy. I'm not rich and never intend to be. Many people bristle with it's easy to be rich in uo. It;s simply not my reason for playing. The whole concept simply suggests forcing large expenditures that otherwise is unnecessary and every bit as broken as the economy itself. This game simply mirrors a capitalist culture seeking a way to punish those who don't worship gold. I wish the obsession with gold sinks would end. I play uo for experiences, not gold.
     
  5. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Barbed runic kits are my gold sink at the moment!!
     
  6. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    A gold sink idea that I would happily spend gold on would be a vendor who sells keys to all the peerlesses. (keys would still have the 1 week timer when purchased)
    Lets say 25-50k per key. 100k-150k for the mel key. Without a lot of playtime lately, it really sucks spending most of it farming peerless keys. By the time I get all the keys I usually don't have time to kill the peerless.
     
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  7. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Sounds fine to me. Fees for doing stuff like that would be acceptable. No fees on doing things that don't seem frivolous though.

    One thing I think would really help would be to stop the spawn number of merchant npcs being 20. Make it max. I have often wanted like 1000 diamonds or whatever, but I simply don't have the patience to sit there and build up the supply. I think people would be more likely to impulse buy npc purchasable resources if the numbers were maxed.
     
  8. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Someone please tell me what good any gold sink does - until gold duping is removed.



    Ah yes, the city titles. How special and convenient for the gold dupers to be able to "afford" to buy their dukedness....
     
    #8 startle, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
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  9. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    There can be no gold sink. That ship has sailed. Even on Siege sadly enough. Gold is too available. It can be bought.
     
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  10. T-Hunt

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    As Kelmo said, after 15 years and going, its to late.
    They would have to been on the ball long ago, when all the dups and other exploit ruined the game value.
     
  11. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Gold isn't duped. Checks are. And they're removing the checks. Sure, dupers can continue to dupe 60k gold stacks, if that works, but at least it won't be as effective as with checks.

    Gold sink means, that the gold is completely removed from the system. Not transfered to another player. (I don not suppose, you're buying these kits from NPCs, do you?)
     
  12. Veritas et Sapientia

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    None of em'.

    I think they're all ********.

    For those of you who support gold sinks I advise you to go down and visit you local bank where you will find a public trash can. Feel free to dump as many piles of gold in that dumpster as you like. Don't be telling me what to do with my gold or come up with BS ideas to take my hard earned gold away from me. This is more along the lines of "Raise Taxes"....well to hell with that (maybe in the real world where people actually starve but not in a virtual world). I work hard for my gold and spend a good deal of game time acquiring it and I don't like to see my time wasted which is what your doing when you implement gold sinks.

    Furthermore. It was only 2-3 years ago Champion Spawns dropped 50k gold and people complained. The Dev team then implemented a return to BOS (remember they were disabled to send gold) and raised the gold monsters drop across the board on ALL monster. I lobbied against this but these are things you don't implement when you are concerned with how much gold is in the game and what effect it has on the economy.

    You can't have it both ways. Let's introduce more gold into the game and and make it easier to acquire and then turn around and think gold sinks are a bright idea!? Really!? :rolleyes:

    Let's also not forget the past few years have seen rampant duping. A failed revert in which god only knows how many items were duped off Atlantic during the Great Revert. Then there is the big one which no one ever wants to talk because it may be the biggest heist in all of UO: When character copy to Test Center was first initiated 'someone' forgot to turn off transfers off of Test. Yes..players copied characters to TC with xfer tokens in their pack and then turned around and transferred off of TC with tons of loot.

    The whole point is moot and this thread is wasteland.
     
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  13. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Bribery is the gold sink the barbed runic kits refers to.

    EM Bling raffles are great ideal.

    Large ammount checks higher then 1 million have a short timer on them. "Check 100,000,000" pull chest from packy, "Check 100,000,000" pull chest from packy, "Check 100,000,000" pull chest from packy, "Check 100,000,000" pull chest from packy, "Check 100,000,000" and off to buy a castle through the trade window. Give the packies to the seller so they can worry about 500 checks worth a million before they oversized checks time out.

    Safe container that works like the Shed but with the greed of a vendor charging a fee. Extra storage. Extra houses on an account with rent better be limited to 12x12 or smaller and cannot be sold/traded. Better yet put in two or more seafare markets of a larger size. Mored Houseboats that don't sail have a rental cost. Could even have a vendor limit.

    Vet reward turn in. 14 1st years for a shard shield. Vet Reward turn in received items would not be age restricted option as the gold sink. When someone is selling a bronze robe for 15 million gold, then we will know it is working.

    Public trashcan for turn in points to sell the new dexer jewels?

    Noone gets, or got rich from the champ spawn gold. Unless your soloing. Then your on a dead shard and would never wast BoS charges when the gold will still be there after a bank run. I don't even loot gold when there is a champ corpse with unravel loot near by.
     
    #13 Warpig Inc, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  14. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Anyone can afford a 1% fee. The more gold you can spend on an item, the more gold you have anyways. So I don´t see such a system hurting anyone.

    And it´s never too late for more gold sinks even though Startle made a good point above me.
    If they introduced 20 new gold sinks that works during 2014 it would go a long way.

    I like two of the suggestions that has been posted on UHall.
    One is that building/costumizing a house should cost money but not refund it when demolished.
    Another is that LRC should take gold from your bank when you cast spells. If a spell requires garlic, nightshade and black pearl then the game should take whatever that costs to buy from an NPC, out of your bank. LRC should be a conveniant way to not have to carry regs, not a free way to cast spells.
     
  15. Boba

    Boba Adventurer
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    Why don't we have Texas Hold 'em with a rake at the casino yet?

    Here's another idea: Recreate any EM rare that has been lost to decay(unfound idocs, ones that decayed when the owner forgot to lock it down, ones that remained on corpses at events, etc), and then hold a public auction for them.
    Be sure not to include those tucked away in deactive players bank boxes, as we don't want more copies than should exist to reenter the market.
     
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  16. Veritas et Sapientia

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    You guys want to know what a gold sink is?

    Here is a gold sink:

    I buy two transfer tokens @ 60M so I can transfer to another shard and buy a Daemonic Crisis Vanquisher Statuette for 300M and then transfer back i.e 420M for my trouble.

    One of the few items I saved every nickel and dime for to try and get.

    Then a few months later they decide to eff up' the Daemonic Crisis Vanquisher by removing the ability to shoot it's flames when it's in your pack (That's the whole friggin' reason I saved and jumped through hoops to get the coveted statuette. How cool and how much fun was that? I just had to have it...)

    Anyways you get my point. Lesson learned and no more buying rares for me for fear of the Dev Team changing items on a whim after I sink 420M into obtaining it.

    Now that's folks is a gold sink!:rant2:
     
    #16 Veritas et Sapientia, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  17. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    If you must add gold sinks you have to make them things people want, not just add a tax to things we've done for years.

    A gold sink should be fancy deco and such, not things that would have any effect on game balance. Not things we NEED to own to stay competitive, but things we would WANT to buy for our homes or pure vanity.

    Examples:

    Titles - Add new non-town associated titles (but please, nothing as lame or OOC as the Vet titles)

    Deco:
    More mounted heads/trophies
    Mounted heads that TALK (similar to the heralds welcoming visitors)
    2-Story statues
    House paint in a very limited range of tasteful hues (added to the house customization menu)
    etc.

    Convenience items:
    Allow NPCs to deposit purchased items directly into our home's moving crate for a fee. Think of it like home delivery.
    50K a pop teleports to hard to get to locations or select locations in Ilshenar.
    NPC dyes (not objects) that are priced like the bright hair dyes. (The NPC dyes the object for you, players never get the actual dye)
     
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  18. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    What we need are goldsinks like the current city bonuses.
    Said in other words, what we need is something that cost gold, and goes poof after awhile.
    Personally i would like to see ingame shard-xfer-portals, that takes you to shard X, for a fee, the fee is dependent on how popular the shard is, so it should scale in some way.
     
  19. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    I dont think this would be fair. But a blessed magic reagent bag, and a CAP of LRC of 85, would be ok.
     
  20. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Why not fair?
     
  21. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Because you can get %100 LCR suits from the clean-up point system and how many recalls do you thing it would take to remove 1K gold from UO much less 1B gold. You would not live long enough to see it even if UO was still going. A 10 gp gold sink solves nothing.
     
  22. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Yes, 10 gp is not much but it´s not just one guy casting just one spell.
    With all the players across all the shards casting a lot of spells each day it would add up. Not enough to do much on its own but if the game gets a bunch of small gold sinks here and there that doesn´t hurt the individual player but yet removes a fair amount from the game each day then we´re on the right track.
    There has to be some kind of balance to all the gold entering the game from PvMing and such.

    Vendor fees is one of those nice gold sinks because I´m sure that removes a fair amount each day with all the high priced items on vendors across the shards. Some might still dodge the fees, if that still is possible but not everyone does that.
     
  23. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Adding a "tax" to existing systems is a bad, bad idea. It will just piss people off and some might quit over it...or at least threaten ominously.

    Remember the monthly "tax" imposed on faction artifacts? How many shards have a thriving faction community?

    UO can't afford to alienate any more players.
     
    #23 Dot_Warner, Dec 16, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
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  24. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    easy gold sink. anything status symbol like - colorful, humorous, glacial, whatever.
    people would buy it.
    200mil to dye your skin jet black lets say
    2 bil to dye your skin abysall or glacial
    100mil each for new hair dye colors
    500mil or so to put some type of an effect, smoke / sparkles around your character

    those are just some examples. point is, it could cost Alot. and people would buy it.

    when thinking about gold sinks, need to have something that would remove billions in the triple digits. not some annoying tax your forced into. or some 10 mil a day thingy.
    Something useless that people would still shell out gold for. something that could get at least a couple hundred billion out of the game would be a goldsink.
     
  25. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    They sure are! It costs nearly 2.5 mill to bribe up BODs to give barbed kits. Pretty pricy
     
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  26. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    This.
     
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  27. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Its not fair that u have to have 100% LRC build into youre suit, and still pay. Its not like dexxers pay for doing special moves, or that they have to have special properties in their suit to be able to do special moves.
    So far dexxers get special treatment regarding suit enough allready as it is..
     
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  28. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Someone really hates the necro mystic mage template asking for an LRC change.
     
  29. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Triple insurance and only have 80% go to the victor..not enough to complain..but enough to pull a ton if gold out of circulation in the long run and maybe by 2015 granted the game is still around, we may have some sort of balance.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  30. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    There are some good ideas and some... less good ones in this thread.

    Of course, it's all moot anyway as long as people are duping gold, as several have pointed out.

    First, to the suggestions to remove/reduce LRC and/or increase insurance: no. Seriously, no. Either would have a severely disproportionate impact on poorer and newer players. Furthermore, reducing LRC cap to 85% or anything less than 100 at this point would seriously anger a lot of people (including me). That ship has sailed.

    A tax on services we've been getting and/or players have been providing for years alienates players.

    Someone mentioned the city buffs as a good gold sink. The city buffs are a TERRIBLE gold sink, as discussed in many of the governors' threads, because in practice only the governors end up paying them. (Now if each person who USED it had to pay in, then that might be better. But that's not how it is currently working.) They initially tried taxing the city stones, messed up the tax rate so that it taxed the same money every single day until it was gone, then had to get rid of the tax entirely. (Players circumvented it by donating directly to the governors--just as they would circumvent a secure trade tax.) Even now with the tax gone most cities on my shard (Chesapeake) don't maintain the trade agreement. It's a lousy gold sink that encourages only rich players to run for governor, and we can't even tell for certain if anyone is even using it.

    Even a buff isn't really an ideal gold sink because it gives a play advantage (however slight).

    A good gold sink should be 1. purely aesthetic , 2. temporary, and probably 3. self-renewing unless specifically deactivated. The abyssal skin suggestion for example (or another color, or a special title, or whatever), could cost say 5 million gold per week and auto-renew itself until the player either ran out of money or went back to the npc and deactivated it. A high end city title could cost 1 million gold per week. It needs to be temporary to keep the gold flowing out, but don't make people have to think about having to renew it every so often. A one-time purchase isn't a gold sink. A recurring but optional and non-game-changing expense is.

    Personally I don't care for the idea of selling or raffling EM-style items. I think that this will just concentrate the wealth a little differently. I can see it going something like this: instead of 10 people having 100 mil each, now 1 person has a coveted item that 10 people paid 100 mil to try to get... and now that person is going to turn around and sell it for way, way more. Much of the value of gold taken away is put right back in in the form of a super rare item.

    Reissuing old EM items will annoy the hell out of the rares collectors. Take that as you will. I think it would be a mistake.

    I think there are three things that would best address the economy in UO:

    1. As stated above: aesthetic, temporary, auto-renewing gold sinks.

    2. Handling money as a number/balance attached to your account. If I'm not mistaken, it's checks that are the most duped thing. Get rid of them, but keep physical gold and make it add to your balance when you put it in the bank instead of making piles and piles of items.

    3. (And I'm probably going to get scorched for this.) Open up cross-shard travel to everyone. Make it a quest or something, a slight nuisance perhaps, but something that anyone can do. (Have the shield you get from the Minax artifacts actually work perhaps.) The concentration of everything on Atlantic by a handful of players that have old enough accounts to hop around as they please has left everyone and every other shard in the dust with no way to catch up. Sure you can buy a round-trip for $40 real money in the Origin store, but that is still limited to players with a lot of disposable income. UO needs to be attracting new players and bringing back old ones. New and returning players can't catch up, and therefore can't fully participate in the larger community and economy. Ethereal mounts were such a game changer that the year requirement on the lowest one was reduced, but cross shard travel is MUCH more of a game changer than any magic horse could ever be. Even it up. (And let players trade their old shard shields for other vet rewards so that they won't have wasted all those picks when everyone can jump.)

    Another thing that I've thought about but am not really sure about is this: Get rid of the gold for cash sellers. How? Have EA sell gold directly instead in the Origin Store. I won't ever buy it and I find the mechanic problematic at best, but if anyone should be making real money off the game it's the producers, not third party spammers and dupers. We're back to pouring money into the economy again, I know, but I would expect duping to drop so it's a bit of a trade off. This would again benefit players with more disposable income, but it's like that now anyway since they can just go to a third party seller. I have mixed feelings about this idea, but I think there's potential.

    Whatever is done, it is essential that the dev team keep in mind that while yes, the economy is unbalanced and some people have mountains of money, many don't. UO is becoming more and more a game that caters to its oldest players--and there's nothing wrong with older players having some special perks!--but new and returning players get left further and further behind. I think that it's important not to hurt poorer and newer/returning players with broad actions aimed at players they may never be financial equals to.
     
  31. Felonious Monk

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    Your changing game mechanics that have been in place for years.
    Two of the shortest posts in this thread in my opinion end the effectiveness of any gold sink dead in it's tracks.
    #'s 8 & 9. I find these posts moderately startling.
     
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  32. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    It was like this at first, remember: 600 gold to insure an item, and someone who killed you got 300 gold per item. However, not everyone PvPs.
     
  33. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    You don't have to pvp to lose insurance


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. The Zog historian

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    You're talking about "victor
    Of course not. But you said "only have 80% go to the victor," so PvP is the context.
     
  35. Boba

    Boba Adventurer
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    Not a raffle, an auction. HUGE difference.

    The UO team has done it in the past with castles in Malas and other cool areas. This was a huge success and deleted plenty of gold(at the time) from the servers.

    I agree, a raffle would only be good for those that can afford to buy multiple tickets, while screwing the little guy. However, an auction only takes gold away from the guy with all the gold(the gold we're trying to delete).

    There is a VERY big difference between reissuing and replacing old EM items. Why do you think this would annoy rares collectors? What if I told you that there's a chance that zero copies of some rares out there no longer exist in game for whatever reason? I for one, would love the chance to purchase some of these items. I think it sucks that 0 to 2 copies of some rares are still floating around in existence when we started with 10-20.