Order and Chaos, the way it was, was cool, people liked it. I have a proposal to bring it back. Let this be a discussion and NOT bickering please. If you dont like my idea, how would you change it? and why? Try and keep it productive! First and foremost, tie them to factions. However, you are not REQUIRED to be order or chaos to be in a faction! Okay here is my idea. Order is affiliated with Council of Mages and True Brits Chaos is affiliated with Shadow Lords and Minax Joining Order: To join an Order Guild you MUST be at Glorious Karma. In order to remain in the Order Guild you must remain POSITIVE karma. You can go down below Glorious, but NOT to neutral. If you hit Neutral, you will be given a one real hour time frame to raise it back up to a positive level. Joining Chaos: To join chaos you MUST be at Dread Karma. (Chaos Guild members cannot karma lock) In order to remain in the Chaos Guild you must remain NEGATIVE karama. You can go up above Dread, but NOT to neutral. If you hit Neutral, you will be given a one real hour time frame to lower it back down to a negative level. Rules for each guild: 1. Like factions are allied, therefore no team killing of any kind. SL and Min are allied TB and CoM are allied. So if you are in a faction, for example SL, you may not freely attack anyone in Minax OR SL, you may defend if you are attacked. The punishment for attacking AND killing (this prevents accidental attacks) an allied faction member is you are ejected from the guild you are in for a period of one real time month. Fields will NOT count as an attack. (I know there are loopholes here, fine tuning is needed for this, but in general, no attacking.) 1a. Members of a faction that are NOT in the guild of an allied faction will take normal penalties for attacking an allied guild member. 1b. Guild members can heal, res, buff fellow guild members and allied faction members. If they do a beneficial act to someone in a faction, they get flagged the same as the person the healed ect. So, if you heal a murderer in an allied faction and he is in battle, you will become red for two minutes. Same for grey ect. 1c. Red (Murderers) cannot join Order faction. Possibly a quest or some kind of system can be put in to resolve murderer status. Jail sentance? Perma Skill loss, % per kill? idk. 2. After 30 days of being in both a faction and a chaos/order guild, you can purchase and wear faction arties for any level. There should also be Guild arties with additional means of getting them outside silver. All of which are dependant upon you staying in the Guild and in good standing. Maybe make it an over time period... 3. Upon joining a Guild, you will be given a choice of one of three different things to wear, a Shield (Chaos or Order depending on Guild), or Boots or a sash. All of which will have basicly the same modifiers, but for different slots, so those who dont use a shield, can choose something else. Ballpark modifiers would be something like... Blessed Guild Item +2 each stat +2 each resist +5% Karma or Karma Loss depending on guild +2 Regen (all) +10% LRC Remember this is a reward for following all the rules and keeping yourself in the Guild, in good standing. 4. Order Guild Guards may NOT steal town sigils under any circumstances. They can however kill anyone stealing a sigil from an allied faction base, faction or not, to these guards you will be gray. Likewise... Chaos Guild members may only steal a town sigil if they are in a faction, but can kill ANY faction member stealing ANY sigil, allied or not. (gotta have some kinda rewards right?) But the thief can then defend without a murder count. 5. Two new types of horses will be made available one for chaos one for order. Order: Pure White Chaos: Pure Black 6. Guild dyes will be available for their guild members. These would work just like dyes do now, except only on their own gear, which must be 'altered' to "guild item" status. This status can never be reverted, so if you choose to dye armor or robe ect and lose your guild status, your item will poof... Colors: Chaos: Pure Black and Blaze Order: Pure White and Invul Blue? (is that the cool looking neon type blue?) 7. Guild members allied bases now count as a house and you can safely log off inside them. (normal log out combat rules apply). Also, LB and Blackthorn castles act in the same manner. 8. Bring back moonstones as a form of purchase, this will just work like they did before except not expire or be used up when they are used. Merely will switch you to the opposite facet that you are currently in. Blessed. (a fun toy) 9. Fellow Guild Member will highlight BLUE and NOT GREEN! You are not supposed to kill your fellow Order/Chaos members at all, ever! They should be able to trust you! Enemy guild members will highlight Orange. So sorry no same guild member killing. Reds will highlight blue or purple (so you know they are red). And a list of other purchasable "Guild Artifacts" similar to the faction ones now, but different arties used. I dont know which off hand or how to even scale power on them. But with the tight rules each Guild has to live by, I can see this being an incentive to stay in your Guild. And NO having them only work in Fel is as stupid as the faction arties bs now. I am in a fel guild, I play in Fel a lot, but I also play in tram, I dont wanna be swapping out my suit all the darn time. Thoughts? Ideas? And please do not focus all your thoughts and idea around items! Although of this whole post, I am sure more than 50% of the Fel players only saw "new arties" and how they could exploit the system. So save me having to read through all that. If you dont like something or think something should be changed or tweaked, POST AN ALTERNATIVE! Not just a no, that is neither constructive nor helpful. And there are many who like the old Order/Chaos and there was perks for being a member and staying a member, so you need good rewards because these people will have severe limitations on the battlefield.