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Britain --- City Jail Campaign

Discussion in 'Governors' Forum' started by Pandora_CoD, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    Hello everyone! I had wanted to run this campaign before, but due to some stuff on Catskills, couldn't get it started before the end of my last term. Thus I am addressing this here and now.

    Yes, we all know Yew has the prison for convicted felons that are doing hard time, and I am not trying to take away from that effort by my suggestion here, but I do believe that a CITY JAIL would be a great addition to the city of Britain. A temporary hold for criminals or suspects that await trial is something that all major cities should have, in my humble opinion, but none more than our CAPITAL CITY.

    So I ask all the Governors of Britain (across all shards) if they would join me in the campaign to add such a feature to our great city.

    What I ask for is your feedback and ideas...

    a) thoughts on the general idea of a city jail,
    b) sample locations of where such an addition would reside,
    c) efforts you are willing to take to bring this up to the King (of each shard).

    I shall start with my answers to these questions...

    a) As stated above, I think the capital city above all should have a city jail. Many other cities have such a structure for example Trinsic has a city jail, so it would not be a huge stretch to add that to our capital city. It certainly would help with more role playing possibilities.

    b) Well my thought on this is to re-use a current building and for me... that building should be the Warrior's Guild (since we have more than 1 building dedicated to the Warrior's Guild) across the west bridge. It just has the look of a jail and the inside could be re-worked to provide jail cells and offices for the RBG as well.

    [​IMG]


    c) I am more than willing to write a full proposal to submit the idea to the King. In my previous term I had mentioned it and our EM Barnaby actually did agree with me about the idea, so I am sure he would support it.


    I thank you all for reading this and I look forward to working together with all the Governors of Britain (in all shards) to see something like this come to fruition some day.


    With respect,

    Pandora de Romanus
     
    #1 Pandora_CoD, Jun 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
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  2. Skunk

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    I'm sorry but the last thing our great capital city needs is a place like this. Leave the felons out of Britain. Instead we should be focusing on building community back up and making this great city the social hub it once was.

    Brother Patrick, Governor of Britain (Origin)
     
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  3. Pandora_CoD

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    Or leave them to run the streets? Like they are now? The community building aspect of it all is hindered by the criminals allowed to be set free for a lack or proper place to hold them. :)
     
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  4. Skunk

    Skunk Sage
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    As a man of the people I will be discussing this with my shards citizens.
     
  5. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    There are a few empty guard towers in Britain that might be better suited to being remodeled into a small municipal jail. (the crumbling NE tower of the Warrior's Guild doesn't say "secure" to me :p)

    I'd suggest the one directly east of the Sweet Dreams Inn, since it has an office-like area that is already built, and a long corridor leading to an empty two-story shell. While this would require a patch to do, I say that it should be done properly. Just add a door into the corridor, add a middle floor in the tower with some stairs going up, then build one decent cell on each floor (cot, table & stool, water pitcher). Make sure that the walls/door are the type that can be talked through.

    [​IMG]

    MAKE THIS A NO PET / NO FLY ZONE!


    The other option is the watch tower (the southeastern most building in Britain), but it is a much smaller space.
     
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  6. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Pandora, with greatest respect, our warriors guild in Britain is a place where warriors are sent to train. It is where on some shards the royal guard meet. It is not a place for evil or lawbreakers. Please reconsider.
    I respect that Yew has always held not only the jail system but also the court where decisions are made.
    I would hope you would consider that as you govern the city.

    What you might want to consider is a holding cell. A place where people charged with crimes can be held before moving them to the jails in Yew.
    Yew is the place for jails, our capital is not.
    May you consider the old barracks in King Brittish's castle as a place where a holding cell could be established? (since the castle itself lay dormant awaiting the True King's return)
    Please consider this.

    Thank you,
    Governor Ouija
     
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  7. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Britain having a city jail/holding cells makes sense.

    I see the prison in Yew, as just that...a prison. Where people go just before trial, and where they stay after conviction. However, since the prison, at least on GL, has the reputation for having a revolving door and easily bribed guards, I'd welcome another place to stash someone that isn't tucked away in a forest. No offense to Willa, but Yew just has way too many issues with criminals...

    When the Royal Guard or Spies bring someone in alive, I'd imagine they'd like to keep them close until the lawyers earn their pay.
     
  8. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    While I agree in concept, the "world" capital is not the place for them. Once a person is "Arrested" they should not be detained in the capital limits. That city is is for official business and high society types, not a place to keep our criminals.
     
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  9. Pandora_CoD

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    This is a GREAT OPTION, Dot. :) I mean I am just looking for suggestions. I liked the Warrior's Guild because we have TWO OF THEM.... seemed redundant. But if folks have other options, let us work together on it. :) I am not opposed to a new location.
     
  10. Pandora_CoD

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    Every city should have a temporary jail, every one. Many cities already have a jail. It is common place even in medieval times to have one. Yew PRISON is where folks go to trial or to serve their convicted sentences; its not meant for temporary holding of the drunken sailor that caused a brawl at the Cat's Eye Tavern, for example. Having a jail INCREASES security, it doesn't diminish it. I have talked this over with many Britain citizens and will continue to do so; most favor it.
     
  11. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    Prison = Long Term (Murderers, etc): Can Serve up to life
    Jails = Short Term (Thieves, etc): Can serve up to several years
     
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  12. Flutter

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    Sorry. There's a certain "theme" to each UO city that I was trying to preserve. That's all. The capital city is full of Nobles, Lords and Ladies mostly. Even if they are found doing naughty things there is always a tendency to "look the other way". It's not Bucs Den, it's the capital. People are simply thrown out if they are not proper.
    But I shall butt out, as my feelings on the matter are somehow offensive.
     
  13. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    Then perhaps it's time for some progressive reform! :p

    I get what you're saying but I don't think it does any harm to have a jail in each loyalty city. If nothing else it opens up more RP storyline possibilities within each city. Let's face it--most of the buildings are completely unused anyway. Trinsic has a jail. Why not other cities?

    And besides, it's pretty crappy of Britain to dump every bar brawler and petty pickpocket on another city. I should think Yew would be getting tired of the constant influx of undesirables from other cities!

    Alternatively, maybe Britain should put their criminals on sewer duty... the Britain sewers are in serious need of decent maintenance and pest control. It's a wonder the whole population isn't dead of plague yet!
     
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  14. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    I'm sorry, but I really don't get how this is even a thing. Aren't there better things you could ask the Devs to build?

    How often would it ever get used? How does it help your community? How many "RP" possibilities are created by creating a Jail which servers no real in game purpose?

    I mean, I get wanting docks built in certain cities, you can justify that with at least SOME kind of game mechanic reason. But a jail?

    Its already established in Fiction that Britain sends its prisoners to the jail in Yew (as do all the other cities under the crown). There has never been a designation throughout the years that the prison in Yew is only for "Long term" prisoners.

    I mean, if you just want a holding cell, cant the guard tower just be used for that? *shrugs*


    Personally, If I was going to be running a player story that involved an increased need for holding cells, it would be shard specific, and run for the length of the story arc. Such as, "A powerful cartel moved into Britain, to combat this we need some new holding cells!" Maybe the EM/Devs help out with a temporary prison for these cartel members. Then you finish the arc by getting that Cartel leader, and boom, the lifespan on your "prison" runs out. End of story arc.
     
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  15. Pandora_CoD

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    So any other ideas for possible locations? I like Dot's idea. There are plenty of other buildings we could look at too. Even in East Britain there some buildings there we could look at too! :)
     
  16. Pandora_CoD

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    So far, I am liking Dot's idea... does any other governor from Britain have ideas on this?
     
  17. York_Siege

    York_Siege Seasoned Veteran

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    Yew's "prison" is also a courthouse. It's name is "court of truth" the prison is in the back. Nujel'm has a jail and a court house in the same room. I do believe there is lore to why there are the only locations. The lore and history section might not be a bad place to start when looking into this.

    Edit: Trinsic and TerMur also have jailhouses.... My mistake
     
    #17 York_Siege, Jul 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  18. TandaBSK

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    I can see where a jail cell would be a nice touch, though having rp'd a Justicar often... courts in rp rarely go as one would expect real players have real lives and contrary to a real summons UO court can't compete with the mortgage company. If we're dealing with an npc part of an EM or larger fiction arc then perhaps the prisoner would stay put. I don't know if a 'game fiction' trial would even draw a crowd unless the evil doers 'mob' was going to raid the court to either kill the person or try to free them. Perry Mason type court stories are hard even for die hard role players to coordinate and pull off.

    If it were a deco remodel to something existing maybe, I don't have a jail in Minoc either, but before I came to power.. they went into which ever player established jail we had or to the Yew Prison, a time or two long ago they were in Trinsic. Or said criminal met with an untimely demise while in custody, escape is another strong runner, we've had I think a couple of public executions over the many years. Perhaps a small public viewing cell to put the criminal on display.
     
  19. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    We do have a whole "dungeon" under the king's castle, and there are even jail cells down there.
     
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  20. Armand de Romanus

    Armand de Romanus Journeyman
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    (here is our IC "final" proposal found here: http://www.royalbritannianguard.com...d-rework-of-castle-british-for-the-city-jail/ )

    After attending several of Gov. Romanus’ Town Halls, it has become clear that our initial request to the Governor for a full Judicial Building that includes not only a jail but a courthouse is too much for citizens to accept at this time. So after giving it much thought and meeting with my comrades, we have submitted the proposal outlined below.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Thom

    Thom Lore Keeper
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    Catskills shard has their answer already. From the log of the council meeting on the 29th of last month.

    [14/07/29][20:56:46] [King Blackthorn]: So, here is what my decision on this is.
    [14/07/29][20:57:00] [King Blackthorn]: I have heard of some of the plans for a jail, and I believe them to be...
    [14/07/29][20:57:07] [King Blackthorn]: perhaps a bit grander than we need.
    [14/07/29][20:57:24] [King Blackthorn]: I have chosen a spot for the construction of a small jail.
    [14/07/29][20:57:29] [King Blackthorn]: With space for a contingent of Guards.
    [14/07/29][20:57:43] [Pandora]: *smiles*
    [14/07/29][20:57:51] [King Blackthorn]: In fact, I have already had the Royal Architects draw up the plans.
    [14/07/29][20:57:51] [Pandora]: *scribbling fast notes*
    [14/07/29][20:58:01] [King Blackthorn]: I only await a list of the proper materials required.
     
  22. Pandora_CoD

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    Actually, was going to say that Thom. But I am not sure other folks in other realms have received word of that. So the above is a transcript of the conversation from a meeting in CATSKILLS about this request... has anyone else heard something similar?

    Oh and thanks Adam for the suggestions, I actually really like your idea. We'll see what the Devs have to say!

    @Kyronix --- any drop hints? :D
     
  23. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Sorry to rez this thread, but I m planning to run for the Siege governor and wanted to chime in on this. I have to disagree with your premise. Just think about old cities such as Rome and London. Both were capitals of those countries and Rome was the capital of the world for some time. Why wouldn't there be a need for jail in Britain?...la
     
  24. Bianca_CoD

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  25. Pandora_CoD

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  26. Pandora_CoD

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    @Kyronix

    Is this something that can be pushed out to the shards as a whole, Kyronix?

    A small tweak request please: could you add in individual jail cells if possible to the courtyard there?

    Thanks,
     
  27. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    The jail is a good example of something added to the library, if Governors on other shards wish to request it they can, we wouldn't world build it though.
     
  28. Pandora_CoD

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    @Kyronix , when would we see the "catalog" (not to be confused with the other discussion on the Library) of Governor Requests that can be selected per term? We would love to see that be something that we can look through and select things that we can run against for our governor terms, so for example this term I would run with a certain goal from the catalog as a delivery promise for my term.
     
  29. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
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    Ideally you will be able to preview them on UO.com when the redesign is complete.
     
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  30. Pandora_CoD

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    Music to our ears. :D
     
  31. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Britian already has a prison / jail / cells. Theres tons of them under castle Blackthorn, which actually makes the most sense for where cells would be in a city with a castle that also serves as a court. Since we already have them there, i would think a jail any further from the castle would be a little out of place.

    Not sure if it was implemented when this post was made, but is worth noting that another jail isnt really needed anymore. I agree it was a good idea before we got the one in the castle.
     
    #31 Smoot, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  32. Pandora_CoD

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    The Dungeon Cells are filled with monsters, not feasible for use in role play situations. Besides "in character" those cells are not jail cells, they are treasure hordes. Not meant to hold prisoners.

    What was already added is small, out of the way and effective.
     
  33. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    they are cells with simple brigands in them as prisoners. not treasure hordes at all. to be fair, i dont see having to kill 1hit kill spawn as interrupting rp. any character RPing a "jailer" type character would have armor / weapon anyway.

    Any prisoner of Blackthorn in current shard lore is brought to those cells by in character EMs. thats where the King holds his prisoners awaiting trial.
     
  34. Pandora_CoD

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    You do not think its interruptive to RP to have to clear out a spawn because you do not RP.
     
  35. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    A good RPer wouldnt have a problem with simple spawn.

    by its nature, a jail is a dangerous place and makes perfect sense to have to deal with something when entering it.

    On a larger scale, the best RP is improvised reacting to what is happening around you and according to your character, thats what RP is. Our characters live in the world, its perfectly normal to have to RP in random, or not so random everyday occurrences like simple spawn. Especially when in a dangerous place like a jail or a cave or out in the woods or something. If your character cant RP handle a mongbat attack, or in this case a brigand, maybe the person just needs to learn how to RP better.
     
  36. Pandora_CoD

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    Again those are not jails, they are not used as jails and its impossible to keep a character there to "keep them in jail".
     
  37. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Maybe we are thinking of different places. Looks like a jail to me.
     
  38. Pandora_CoD

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    Blackthorn's Dungeon.... is a dungeon.
     
  39. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    a dungeon is a jail, especially when it looks like a jail, and are individual cells to hold prisoners. Blackthorn keeps his prisoners in the jail cells underneath his castle. I suppose there could be private / unsanctioned jails / prisons / dungeons / cells, but that is the official one.
     
  40. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    The cells under Blackthorns are full of creatures and such that don't make the area very conducive to events, unless you want constant fighting and disruptions. A municipal jail would be far more preferable.

    I would build it into the map though, like the docks. The guard post I suggested in post #5 is completely unreachable by players and has pleanty of room for at least 4 indoor cells.
     
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  41. Flutter

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    While I'd agree if it were swarmed with really hard monsters, if you go back there you'll find there aren't very many critters back there and what is can easily be lead out of the way or killed. As role players shouldn't we want it to be as realistic as possible? When there were crimes committed or criminals awaiting punishment how many times have we heard "bring him to the dungeon!"
    I mean besides the fact that you are asking a short staffed development team for map changes for your own personal story-lines you are refusing to use what has been given to us that fits perfectly.
    Why is this even still a topic anyway, the devs have given us a jail to the east on the edge of town.