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Discussion in 'UHall' started by THP, Oct 3, 2008.
Well they were bending the rules....
A logical change. Good job by the Dev Teams.
This doesn't mark and end for sampires. It just makes the suits harder to build.
There will just be fewer running around, won't disappear though.
I'll accept your farewell to my sampire, when she stops using vampire form.
The only problem I have with the change (aside from the obvious gloaters), is whether the form will be lost when you cross a server line, even if you are wearing +necro equipment. If that happens, then I disagree with this change.
Otherwise, a good change.
Just put 99 necro on your template? lol? how hard is that.
this probably will happen since on my warrior when he had 20 int and +40 int bonus stuff he lost all his mana when he crosses lines or recalled and had to wait for it to build back with 0 focus and 0 med
Which will come at a cost against the rest of the skill points template.
It doesn't kill certain Sampire templates, only those that required the "workaround" the 720 point cap to work.
I have never seen skillpoints drop crossing a server line, only stats (they drop and then come right back), but that may occur as well with skill points, but since you don't have a meter that refills slowly, its not noticeable.
We'll see, when the change hits Test Center, try it out and send in bug reports if needed.
If you have something with +skills and you cross a server line It drops it real fast, So if you have like 85 Necro and a super cool braclet with 15 Necro and you cross a server line, will it drop!
looks like ill gain some room in my pack lol......no biggie still own the monsters might take 2-3 seconds longer but hey im not complaining cause i can actually see in my pack now..
Twice, for Good Measure.
i was going to put 99 necro on my sampire anyways, after i got use to not using healing. so to me and alot of others this is a very minor setback. all its going to do is make more skilled sampires that you will dislike ever more cause than can solo stuff that most wish they could. but from what i seen the wammy template is the most successful, and this will not hurt them.
I found a perfect change, at the same cost of those skill points. Not i will face each pearless, if i manage, i will let you know
Good change, it was so inconvenient to go to the bank and switch in the stuff that I never bothered anyway. This way I don't feel guilty for not bothering.
99 skill points isnt hard to fit onto a sampire template at all.
It's doesnt fit when you want a WARRIOR + SAMURAI + PALADIN + VAMPIRE FORM with their OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE abilities at near full capacity.
When people are talking about sampires, the template NECRO PALLY Sammy Dexers flashes up as one of the weirdest term in the entire human gaming history.
It's like playing some RPG game and roll a class that's called a "DarkHoly ProtectDestroyer of ChaosOrder". Kinda ********.
Waves the Nerf stick!!!!
Let the haters have their cake I say.
I know most critics had their opinions mainly because they were unable or simply did not possess the skill to play the sampire template. And if you say it was a point and click template, keep that in mind going up against a shimmering by yourself.
I take great satisfaction knowing that I soloed EVERY single peerless in the game (even though some of them just took too much time and not worth doing multiple times). What matters is that it was achieved.
I'll be honest, for those that really enjoyed that template. An addition of necro/ss in lieu of heal/anat is all that is needed. Personally, I was soloing high end bosses BEFORE I used vamp form. I looked at VE as an enabling form.
Since the announcement, I have already altered my samurai and continuing on like there was no change. This time around though, I will keep my tactics and templates to myself and close friends as I believe it was a series of posts I made last year that gave both instant rise and fall to this template.
For those that have enjoyed the template, I am glad that I was able to help enrich your playing experience. The folks on the warrior boards were great and more intuitive than i'll ever be. You guys will always be able to hit me up for any questions.
Please note that at no time in this post did i ever say that the nerf was too much or woe to the sampire. LOL!
Respect for you, BD, Respect!
Thx for your many advice, you have been the master of most of us
Can always try to find jewelry with some skill on, to get more Chiv...
You might want to open a window.
The air of superiority is getting a little stale.
It stinks a bit of hypocrisy too. Might want to light some incense.
Did you invent the Internet too Mr Gore?
now now, lay off the haterade
This was a totally unnecessary remark.
It is well known that Baghdaddy was the person that brought on the age of the Sampire. You can go to the Warrior forum even now and see the sticky that has been present in that forum, and previously the Bushido forum, for several years now.
The thing is ok, i also think if somebody has necro in his template he should able to use the form, others not. But this wont kill Sampires, and why should it? I think thats UO, to create classfree characters, this is the fun .
And iam not angry about ppl who doing solo peerless thats fun, iam only angry about "cheaters", which are duping the things or doing such other illegal stuff.
My first sampire was built after seeing your thread. I've played and seen many variations of it since. My current one too will barely be affected. Though I'm holding off on moving the skill points until it actually goes in. (ya know, in case someone realises)
I have never had a Gimp Sampire that could hold a form without the actual skill, and/or items equipped.
I don't have No or Low Skill Anything that takes advantage of Game Mechanics like that.
Now...what was that about the "Air of Superiority", Connor?
What was that about the Hypocrisy?
What characters do I play, that are Gimp, Exploiting Characters, like a Gimp, Take All/Half/Most of My Actual Skill Off Sampire Template is?
Define the Hypocrisy...Define the "Air of Superiority"...
Show us what you got...
EDIT: I know that the creative and skilled will do just fine. I know that a REAL Sampire will still be effective.
If someone can adapt, and make it work, without resorting to Gimp Tactics, then I say, let them solo anything, on a Sampire, or any other Non-Exploiting Template.
Just not on one that exploits an obviously broken mechanic to do so.
And it WAS broken...that's why it got Fixed.
I don't recall one single instance of you complaining about chaining Travesty with your Tamer standing out of range while the sampire of the group was tanking so your dog could attack without being in any danger itself. I also don't recall a single instance of you saying ANYTHING about the Sampire template at ANY time at all prior to the recent debate.
Yep. I'd say that's hypocrisy.
Uh, that would be the way you've acted since you booted everyone out of your vendor house, which by the way, you still owe me the balance for the Totem of the Void that was traded for a full year's rent, which I only used about half of, yet you still kept the Totem.
Hell, your post is a perfect example of it.
Don't you worry though. All of us sampires will only need a few hours to get things swapped over then we'll be back to business as usual.
I wonder what excuse everyone is going to use now that this one is no longer valid.
"All of us sampires will only need a few hours to get things swapped over then we'll be back to business as usual."
Not even that lol.
I use this too and honestly, I do not find this a game breaking issue that required a fix.
Good thing I'd yet to get a heartwood saw to make that fishing pole or bought any of my midnight bracers
Drats, now what am am going to do with the ossim grimoire? Can't use it on my warrior to brain someone... Can I get a refund and change it back into a token?
Double drats, gotta lower tactics, anat and healing again to unstone my necro... Back to what I was using before.
Slightly lower damage and can't x-heal as well (sampire rarely needs to heal themselves), but I don't need to risk carrying around an extra set of insured arties just to recast.
All in all, this doesn't much change regarding sampires' ability to tank.
Mine's been doing fine with necro/ss but no heal/anat since 2005. Looks like my template just came into fashion.
The problem isn't the idea of a Sampire in general, but using items to gain a temporary boost in points to do something, then dropping back below the ability to do the "something" and retain the benefits (when the "something" is a continuing effect).
If people can pull off an effective Sampire within the confines of actual skill points and items that are CONSTANTLY worn (and not removed), more power to them, they have my respect.
The people relying on the workaround... tough. It's a needed fix to the game.
"using items to gain a temporary boost in points to do something"
Hmm does that include crafters switching talismans around? Or trap boxes/petals for resist?
People could put the points in necro instead of chiv and use chiv items for enemy of one.
"It's a needed fix to the game."
People keep saying that, wish someone'd say why. How much does it really affect anything? It makes several items worth something and useful I don't see why thats a bad thing. They put this stuff in the game that isn't good enough to use how it's (arguably) "intended" and everyone says it's an abuse, it's an abuse because theres a use for it? It's like their saying have these items that don't really fit but don't you dare come up with a way of using them thats not the undisclosed way we want them used.
Ah well whatever, it's not like it affects me.
Difference with crafters: You have to have the items ON to make the item above your skill level (or have a better success rate or whatever). If you take them off, you can NO LONGER make the item as effectively.
For the "crafting" argument to apply, I would have to be able to put on a Talisman to get a 25% (example, number arbitrarily picked) bonus to Exceptional quality, then take the Talisman OFF and STILL BE ABLE to make the item with the 25% bonus.
Since a craft CANNOT do this, it works as intended.
Form spells in effect COULD do this since they could be retained without the items' bonuses.
The bonus is retained in whatever they've crafted.
That's AFTER it's crafted isn't it? It's not in the process of being crafted, it is DONE.
You're comparing apples and dunebuggies.
Being in a form is a continuing process. Creating an item is not.
A crafter can no longer create the item in question if they take off the items giving the ability to make the item in the first place.
Same thing in that if I decide to have a crafter work their way to GM+, I can put a maker's mark on an item. If I later decide to drop that crafting skill, the mark doesn't come off the item because it has already been completed.
Another way to make your argument equivalent would be to say that if Player B buys said item from Player A who is a crafter, Player B would need the crafting skill to make the item in order to retain the benefits of the item. Doesn't work that way.
Well i havent done all the reading yet but it sounds like Im geting hit pretty hard here. As a pally tamer I crammed in 35 points of necro for the vamp form. While soloing greater dragons they tend to be mean runners near the end and the vamp form was the only thing keeping me in the fight. One bite when he starts running and then an AI usualy bumped me to near full health. Now hes going to run all damm day! Maybe im a discord tammer after all
It isn't Hypocrisy.
I don't DO Travesty on a Tamer, with a Sampire tanking. That would defeat the purpose of staying back, anyway. Plus, I can count on one hand the times I have even taken a Tamer into Travesty. It is usually done by a Tamer, but not a Sampire, at the same time.
But you wouldn't know that, now would ya?
Nope...not Hypocrisy...just you being Uninformed...and Bitter, I might add.
Sorry for the oversight, truly. Or, I can certainly give you back the half years fees on the vendor you didn't think would be able to keep afloat, because of what the fees would be.
I believe it would be about 600K that I would owe you, based on the amoutn I was going to charge you, based on the pricing of the Totems, at that time. PM me and I can arrange to give you the gold back. Not sure why you waited until now to bring it up...because I was acting "Superior" for not wanting to listen to you telling how much you made every single day on the vendor you didn't think could cover it's own fees?
By the way...what in the world does me being happy about a Gimp Template no longer being viable have to do with this discussion, Mr. Bitter? How does me being happy about people no longer being able to exploit an obviously broken game mechanic have to do with our personal dealings, anyway?
About as much as how much the fact that YOU also exploited the "I will haul a Beetle full of Arrows, Bolts and Bandages down to Nix, and make a million and a half GP a day doing it, because I CAN, and run from NPC to NPC after every publish, buying their low priced items all up, and running the prices way up, while I do so!!" bit, I suppose.
Yes...I bet them fixing that exploit stung you a little, too.
Get over it. They will hopefully fix these exploits, as fast as they can.
I wish they would work as fast to fix the cheating that goes on, but who knows.
They do have to start somewhere, yes?
I am sure that the people, like you, that complained so loudly that a complete Template and Spell is no longer of any worth, will indeed be completely invalidated in that thought by creative people that find ways to use game mechanics the right way, likely yourselves included.
Just adapt and move on.
It's what will need to be done, if moving on is an option.
And whatever you killed with the jewelry and items on as a Sampire stays dead, and you keep the loot.
Working as intended, I'd say.
Yes thats correct, now apply it to vamp form. They put the items on cast it and take the items off because their no longer casting vamp form. (it's DONE)
Death discontinues the process. Nothing discontinues the undeserved exceptional bonus on a weapon.
... & a necro can no longer cast vamp form when they take their items off.
Thats abundantly obvious but in complete contradiction to the argument that when you take off the necro items you SHOULD drop out of form.
Thats not my argument.
Exactly. Though thats more of a secondary effect.
I still want to see tamer pets exploding out of the stable when they take their jewels off and their stable slots decrease.
I second that!
That would only apply to the ppl who have not already adapted to the fore seen changes coming. It doesnt hurt too much to add 100 or 110 or 120 Necro to the equation. We will still be running around and not have to worry about buying any of the other items that most once needed. Should hurt the vendor market nicely now. You screamed for it and now its coming, be prepared to reap what you sowed.
You have to continue to wear items (or have the requisite skill) that allow you to craft at a higher level to craft at that higher level. You will soon have to continue to wear items (or have the requisite skill) in order to maintain vamp form.
MAINTAIN is the key word. Not only do you have to cast the form, you have to maintain the form. Lowering the skill below the base to maintain the form will kick you out of it. You have to maintain the existence of the form, you do NOT maintain the existence of a crafted item (aside from repairing which is another "unless you have the skill, your success at reapiring will be hampered" issue).
Yes, the skill drop/replacement of server lines needs to be fixed for this (no argument there).
As for vendor markets, it will only hurt those who base their entire market on selling +skill items.
Won't happen - simply because stables can now be overloaded by logging out while dead (though the pets' control slots stay filled - and you cna get them back by logging out then back in, while alive). There's still the matter of the server lines and the skill dips that occur there.
Now, I wouldn't mind seeing it where if you were over your slots, you couldn't pull your pets OUT (though you could choose pets to directly release wild from the stable, most likely to get guard whacked), until you had the right skill level, or were down to the right slots.
So, if you jeweled up to 3x120 to get max slots, filled them all, then were at 3x110 without the jewelry, you'd have to have the jewelry on to get anything out of the stable (let alone put anything in).
Would put a serious hurt on a tamer that loses his bonus gear - but not the punishment you want to inflict. As I pointed out in another thread -
Trying to equate sampires to tamers, vis a vis equipment use, isn't like comparing apples to apples, or even apples to oranges - it's like comparing coconuts to watermelons. Unlike the Sampire, the Tamer can't use their "bonus" abilities with the skill bonuses permanently off. They can't order a top-end pet around, or it will go wild. They can't add things to the stable slots they would have fully jeweled, without the jewels, etc. Equipment based sampires get ALL the benefits of their use of the jewelry, at NO penalty after its removal. There is zero comparison possible.
And, just a reminder - most of the NON-TAMERS (like myself) have been wanting MORE stable slots anyway - and any we got would probably be added to the tamers as well.
Well this is how I look at it. In uo the main thing is that you can beat the system is some way. Thats the motto. When too many players are using this or that way they nerf it and IN FACT bring in a new one. Its just a matter of finding and exploiting it early.
If ya just look through the games history there has ALWAYS been some way of beating the average joe and IMHO its the main reason people stay here.
I hate this change but i AM looking forward to finding my new way of over the top-ing my char/template/housing/hoarding ect...
The next thing in the contest is to ask:
Are all your chars 6X legendary and 7X gms
Do you really enjoy the sandbox of UO and use different lvls of skills to achieve a variety to complement your play style.
Its my opinion that if you are of the 1st choice go play a non sandbox game and leave the sandbox games to the half witted +
I was there with you when you did it, so yeah, you have done it.
I'm not bitter at all. I'm a bit miffed they did exactly what they said they weren't going to do, right on the heels of them saying they weren't going to do it, without any warning at all. Other than that, I've already taken steps to reworking things so I'll be right back to doing what I was before.
As I said, I wonder what everyone's excuse is going to be next. This one is no longer valid.
Being happy and lording over it are 2 different things. Maybe you should go back and reread what you wrote, because on this end of it, it's a lot more than just you being happy about it.
Here's a hint:
/signed /signed /signed /signed
Which is what I said in the first place, only you shouldn't HAVE to maintain the form because all necro forms are toggles, you're not continually casting vamp form the way you're comparing it to continually crafting something with extra chance.