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Cal_Mythic and the Excel file...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Jul 30, 2010.

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  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Ok, from your post in another thread we got to know that the anti-cheat detection is up and running (good !!) and that all the data about the accounts being played in UO, with their unique ID numbers, and how they are being played, is in a nice Excel file for further evaluation and decision making about what to do with the problem of cheating in Ultima Online.

    Now, without knowing the magnitude of the problem, it is hard to even imagine what solutions you guys will come up with the problem.

    it goes without saying though, I would imagine, that the first reaction about cheating in the game with scripts, hacks and so forth should deem the banning of the account violating the rules as well as accounts linked to it (i.e. benefitting from such violations like getting the stuff obtained from scripting etc....).

    Now, clearly if the accounts in violation are a small number, dealing with the problem would come easier than if a vast majority of the accounts have been and are cheating when playing the game.

    Still, something clearly needs to be done, I would imagine.

    So, even if the problem is of a wide spread magnitute, still, I think, the accounts abusing it the most should be kicked out from the game, cheating stopped for good and then the problem remains of what to do with those (the largest number I suppose) who have been cheating although not so extensively.

    Well, the reason for this post is about a suggestion.

    If you guys find it hard to ban all those accounts (probably the largest number) who have been cheating though not extensively, my suggestions about how to handle could be something like this :

    # 1
    Besides the usual warning and temporary bans to let the user know that what they did was not acceptable, as a sort of punishment perhaps you could strip the account of some in game items be them gold, artifacts, whatever. The number of the items stripped might depend on the amount of cheating estimated and what the account is thought to have gained from the cheating.

    # 2
    Another possibility, if banning or punishing a too much large number of accounts is not advisable (but the accounts found cheating the most or gaining the most through cheating as well as the connected other accounts benefitting from this will still, I think, need to be kicked out from the game), since I think it still is important that you guys send a signal out that you do not want nor can tolerate cheating in your game, that for this one time you will "pass over" for those accounts who have not too much abused of it (supposedly the largest number) but that you still find it right and proper to then praise those accounts which you have found did not cheat and did not benefit from cheating in the game.

    What I am trying to say, is that if you decide it too difficult or a problem to issue punishments over cheating in UO because the magnitude of the problem is too high, please do consider, to send out a clear and inequivocable message out there that cheating is not right, that you will then prize -as an alternate measure- those accounts who you found did not cheat (this, supposing they are a minority of the active accounts...). Of course, they have to be accounts in no way connected to accounts that have been found cheating. What I am trying to say, is that a player can have more than an account. One account might be used to cheat (a disposable account that can be risked) and the other account(s) are not used for cheating but they still gain from cheating like the scripting and such, for example. Prizing the non cheating account of the same player who has been cheating on some other account would not be fair, of course. So, some carefullness would be needed in pin pointing which accounts deserve the special prize, really.

    Now, what could be the prizes to honorable and "by-the-rules" playing ?

    You could offer special, cool items which are tied to the account and not transferable to other accounts, period. Or you could offer a choice of a number of tokens still tied to the account, anything important enough which could make the players who suffered playing the same game where others were cheating to gain an unfair advantage, not at a loss for having played according to the rules.

    It is just an idea, I am curious as to see what you guys will in the end come up with.

    Have a nice work.
     
  2. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    LOL, as shown here many times, lots of people cheat in the ways that they cannot detect. Like using illegal search sites to gain advantages and ruin the economy for lesser vendors.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, does that perhaps mean that there is no other alternative but seeing those who cheated benefit from it and those who did not cheat just suffer from the inbalance without any possible compensation to them ?

    I mean, I need to conclude that doing the wrong thing pays off ?

    If so, this is rather not educative, to my opinion.........
     
  4. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I, for one, require no 'reward' for obeying the rules I agreed to obey when I made my account.
    Nor do I feel the need to instruct EA on how to run their business. I am content to let those people who have all the facts, and not just all the speculation, make the required decisions based on those facts.
     
  5. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Clearly this is a decision for the dev team alone, but I assume they will go with a deterrent strategy so as not to lose many accounts. The effects of the known measures are already very visible in game.
     
  6. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Until EA gives Ultima an internal vendor search system, such sites will remain popular. The majority of users won't waste their time in the wilds looking through crappy named vendors that aren't stocked.

    Vendors were great pre-Ren, when there weren't many places to sell stuff and you could get by as a merchant while selling stuff directly to other users at Brit Bank. By now, every modern game out there has such a better merchant system, and UO's Luna-fueled market, full of fake rares and ALL CAPS VENDOR NAMES, doesn't encourage progress.

    Some shop owners are better than others, such as the ones whom indicate wares by placing tables with items in front of each vendor, but the majority of shops require vendor look spam and a little luck, for those still chasing the "White Unicorn" of savings on their way through the wilds (or IDOC hunting, whichever the case).
     
  7. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    If I were a dev, with the excel sheet, and all that, I'd make it really simple.

    Illegal third party script detected
    First Offense: 7 day suspension
    Second Offense: 30 day suspension
    Third Offense: Stephen Stasburg'd, you're out. Perma ban.

    Duping
    First Offense: There's not going to be a second. Perma ban.

    The thing I'm most interested in though is how many Trammel-only people use scripts.
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    First, suggesting some ideas is noting like instructing. It is merely giving out suggestions.

    Of course the decision is theirs, it goes without saying.

    Yes, obeying the rules should grant no reward. It is as it should be.

    But then, so should also be for those accounts which did not follow the rules (i.e. going against the rules should not pay off).....

    Now, this said, if there will be accounts which went against the rules and yet, no consequences will be for them, whatever the reasons and the logic for letting it go, this will not be fair towards those who paid a price over the years that they choose to play the game following the rules and play at a handicap.

    What I am trying to say, is that it should either work both ways or no ways.

    So, accounts which went by the rules should receive no benefit (even though their game play suffered from those who played not following the rules...) as long as those accounts who did not follow the rules will suffer something from that.

    If some accounts which still did not follow the rules will be left untouched well, then I personally think that this would not be fair towards those who instead played following the rules evven though it made their game play less enjoyable.

    This is why I was suggesting some sort of compensation.

    As I said, merely a suggestion, nothing more and nothing else.
     
  9. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    hmm, I can't say I agree with you on compensation. But the UK government has the power to confiscate goods and cash gotten through illegal means. I can see a case for EA doing the virtual equivelant.
    What would be nice, though probably not possible, would be if those ill-gotten goods could be made available to general players through the towns' npc merchants.
     
  10. popps

    popps Always Present
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    What about the hacks ? The speed hacks, and those which allow to pass through static objects which, In Felucca, might be quite an advantage ?
     
  11. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    :thumbup1:

    Perfectly stated. The "reward" we get for obeying the rules is getting to play. The "reward" for not obeying the rules is to get banned and not allowed to play. That's all we need.

    No one should have to reward anyone for obeying the rules we agree to play by.
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Ok, that for the theory.......

    What about then the reality check ?

    What about the argument I often hear that if too many accounts were found using cheats it would be a hard decision to use the ban hammer on all of them ?

    Betweem what should be done and what can reasonably be done sometimes there can be a big difference.

    In those cases where the action cannot follow the theory what would be the best way to proceed, if I may ask for ideas ?
     
  13. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    They can be detected, will be detected and i hope the users have there original files.

    Otherwise...rule 1 applies.
     
  14. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    The second people starting disappearing from Yew gate for speeding or client mods...pretty quickly the message will spread and people will stop.

    My approach would be simple, you announce its going live on monday. Through the week you remove the speeders and dupers.

    The message will spread like wildfire...old players return, then you simply do what was stated before.

    3 strikes and out system.
     
  15. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    There is not only cheating but then supporting the action. I go looking for Dull Copper lets say. Vendor 1 has tons of ingots and the DC bag has deeds of 60k 10k 5k 1k for 15gp per ingot but vendor 2 has smattering of few ingot types and 3 deeds of 1k DC at 20gp per ingot. I buy from vendor 2. And the whole house for vendor 1 goes into my avoid book.

    Now if the place gets banned or and account gets a perma.......... Putting those goods on a public NPC is just a bad ideal. Ill gotten goods just need the pixel vannishing act.

    There should be no slaps on the wrist. Your either playing the game or your not. Simple as if your left had is not mashing hotkeys and your right is not wearing out a mouse pad, YOUR NOT PLAYING THE GAME. Perma ban.

    There are many ways players reconize cheats without fancy tools. Being part of the scripter police I used to give 5 sec block times when a cheater would show up to mine a location. Or in my page that would cover the standard wait for GM actions. I would give the exact time a player would recall into a location. Move my packy or storage box at that time, and tada, like magic an account would show up for a well deserved ban.
     
  16. I am pretty good with Excel, but something about using Excel to data mine an Oracle data base just makes my skin crawl. It can be done of course, but wouldn't Crystal Reports (which I've used) or the data mining module (which I know nothing about) for Oracle be better?
     
  17. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I think which ban is always a bad thing,... there are more evil thing to do instead of push people to go play into free shards....

    for example: I suggest an npc named as "Vendetta" that randomly appear near the bad guy and istant-kill him. Then he stole everything the non-blessed/insured item in his backpack.
    This NPC can strike everywhere and in every moment.
    The "Vendetta" attacks rate is based on the punishment level:
    From 30 to 70 minutes (for low punishment)
    To 1 to 5 minutes (for heavy punishment)

    and there are many other bad joke that can be done for avoid the ban:
    - When you get an artifact it will became cursed
    - When you get a PS/Stat scroll will be automatically dropped on the ground and became a scroll with the text: "<name> is a cheater and do not earn this item"
    - When you give the last hit for kill a player you die instead of him
    - Get 100 kills instead of 1 when you kill a player
    - Istant kill when you log out
    - Auto-remove insurance before death
    - Randomly polymorph your character in a donkey

    All this not time based, but on the number of punishment received. In this manner cannot be avoided and will be priceless for the others to see your powerfull enemy dismounted and polymorphed into a donkey during the battle :D
     
  18. HEH... I kind of like these three... especially the Donkey!

    Anyone caught using a script/hack will have all equipped items cursed, and contents of the backpack fall to the ground. That would be discouraging.
     
  19. True that nobody diserves a reward for playing by the rules. But everyone that played by the rules diserves compensation for the lack of action EA had over the years against the players breaking the rules.

    Some examples of how affected honest players have been over the years:

    How many thousands of champ spawns have been crashed by hudge guilds who would never had ANY clue that your little guild was doing a champ spawn, if they didnt use a third party program to automate the scouting of all the altars by using "ghost cams"? Scrolls in the cheaters pockets while you go back in luna to buy that same scrolls on the vendor of the cheats.

    Or let's say the player "Joe mining scriptboy" and dozens of players like him accumulate billions in gold while sleeping at night. Then they can afford all items at double price. They pay that price, market adjusts and it's now the regular price, wich "Joe playfair" now needs to pay if he wants that item.

    Then there is "Joe I place a House in 1/1000 of a second with my uber script" who makes a living out of the castle he places and sells for $1000-$2000 real world cash.

    I think you get the idea, I could go on and on about how much the cheaters have hurt the honest players and even more on how much EA has hurt theses players by their lack of action.

    I have been in vent with a guildmate that was at the most 16 years old and bragging about the trip he payed himself with the profit (thousands of $) he made out of duping.

    I dont even think that EA can adequatly compensate the legit players that have stayed with them thru thoses years of rampant cheating and greifing.

    Thats my two cents :sad4:
     
  20. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    If outright banning accounts for chesting would close to many accounts then try a lesser penalty that won't permanently lose players. Remove all gold and fancy pixel crack items from all accounts linked by name, address, and payment method to the cheating account. Many will leave in anger but will probably eventually return to start over. This game is a rare Good Time that can't be found elsewhere. It will be more of a Good Time once cheating is cut back dramatically.

    Another bit of advice would be to let Players get involved in restraining cheating. Making a cheaters life difficult by interfering with his automated bot characters ability to perform it's scripted actions should draw no penalty. A character with a Player controling it would get around the interference making it clear it's not an illegal script running. Yes, it carries potential for griefing abuse, but it would be the far lesser of two evils.

    Or try this one. Instead of banning accounts for cheating, have the penalty be that their account characters are banished to fel for so many days of active play with all contents of their houses, ships, and bankboxes in a cluster of small cells in fel that are somewhat accessible by thieves meaning items, possible favorite ones, will be lost during their 'prison sentence. Consider it one more way of getting prey into fel for the Pkers & Thieves. The cheaters who have gained due to their cheating ways, will stand to lose due to getting caught at their cheating ways.

    Put a tracking flag on items owned by cheating accounts and record where the items wind up, on the same or other accounts. Any account in possession of a *lot* of flagged items is probably a storehouse or fence for ill-gotten gains and gets penalized.

    There are many ways short of banning to penalize cheaters. Ways that will only draw screams, cries, whines, and perhaps some temporary account closings to 'punish' EA for ruining the cheaters fun. Any who close thier accounts for more than three months after being caught cheating, their houses IDOC and all contents of their bank boxes are dumped into the pile of discarded stuff that turns up in the abyss.

    Make the non-ban penalties bad enough, the cheating will pretty much stop. The few die-hards left can just be outright banned.
     
  21. Cal_Mythic

    Cal_Mythic Guest

    And let's leave the size of my Excel file out of this ;)
     
  22. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Yeah, like players returned when they banned a bunch of duper sellers...oh wait, they didn't.
     
  23. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    You are so right, popps. Just today, a police officer gave me a lollipop because I didn’t speed. Last week, the IRS called to thank me for paying my taxes on time. McDonald’s once gave me an extra special toy because I didn’t rob them. Although I didn’t do so well on my last exam, my school gave me an “A” because I didn’t cheat.

    Wake up, people! This is the way the real world works!

    /reality check
     
  24. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Its that small? *bah-da-bum-dishhhh*

    hehehe

    Hope also you're keeping in mind that some people have also (my girlfriend included), been allowing others to use their accounts for specialized chars if they're not around and no one really knows if the other person has been using minor scripts like heal scripts in PvM or autolooters. Sure you could take a hard stance against anything, but considering its been de-facto allowed for nearly 13 years and the inequality between the CC and EC, it really isn't in anyones interest (apart from a few rabid posters, half of which don't play and won't play), to do that.

    Also remember that it still affects legit players too, as some play together, hunt together, are in guilds together, make events together. Heck 2 events I am participate in on Europa I know the organizers use cheats to help.

    So hopefully you'll make the right choices and not make any fatal mistakes for players and UO.
     
  25. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    "Loaning" your character out does not make you any less responsible for the actions taken by that character, in my opinion.
     
  26. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I use Excel with Oracle data almost daily. Altho the XLS is typically the result of a pull from some other product (TOAD usually), it ends up many times in an Access or VB environment for more research.

    It's a very good vehicle for research when doing that research on production environments may have an adverse impact. My latest fun project is backfilling over several million data rows with information that was optional then, but is mandatory now by procedure. Excel FTW on this one.
     
  27. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Wait a minnit ... I got a car license frame freebie because I made a suggestion to a US auto-maker. Free stuff does happen.
     
  28. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    exactly what this man said !

    some people come up with a lot of lame excuses to cheat don't they ? :gee:
     
  29. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Okay - I hate to admit this but in one instance popps has something right IMO. If outright banhammer is not really feasible for the miscreants, how about 'x' hours jail time for all characters and simple deletion of 'y' amount of possessions that appear to be gotten by illicit means?

    When said characters are released from stir, they suffer 10% loss of skills, 20% statloss. They can recover that by playing the game. If they then decide that they do not wish to play UO any more, they will leave. If they seriously love the game, they will learn and stay to enrich the community. <shrug>

    As for the size of your ... ummm, tool. It ain't alway quantity, but quality. The results will show how "good" it is. <snicker>
     
  30. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    I found a way to make my excel file 12 inches thick...... I fold it in half.... lol
     
  31. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    So, do you jail the owner of a car, if someone loaning it runs over someone else?

    Sure, I can follow your logic, but given that this has been de-facto allowed, in not enforced or checked in the entire existance of UO, its hardly fair to expect people to have any idea if anyone else are using these or even really take much notice of it.
     
  32. Cal_Mythic

    Cal_Mythic Guest

    Exactly ... it's a fine between justice and fairness and ... perception of both.

    We discuss methods of action from zany to subtle and invisible to the general population. It's the difference between putting someone on a rack in front of the town a la Puritan New England ... v. something clandestine where players the next day will just notice someone gone ...

    You get the point. It's important to know, though, that we are still actively on this item.

    in addition to publishes, backend hardware updates and golf lessons in Tahiti ...

    Okay they are Wii golf lessons ... :)
     
  33. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    How the heck was that an excuse to cheat?

    Please stop this rabid myopic crusade crap that is only going to destroy UO as it is.

    And what are you, another alt account? Funny how so many of the rabid anti crowd have stated that they'd be fine with UO being destroyed over this.
     
  34. Cal_Mythic

    Cal_Mythic Guest

    I should so not even respond to this but I can't stop laughing.
     
  35. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    Sorry I couldn't help myself.
     
  36. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Hehehe, always room for some Wii golf.

    I am glad to see all of these updates. I just want you to be aware of that these aren't just mindless evil people living selfcontained...they are other players friends, family, co-workers and even heroes.

    Take <name edited out by request> for instance, a RL friend of mine, we served together shortly. He's a hero to many, having served in ex-Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq, having earned several distinctions and medals. He has been diagnosed with PTSD and cognative disorder. He cannot focus on too many things or repetitve actions anymore. He uses the program the shall not be named to keep track of things, help him with training and keeping track of minor things like keeping bandages up when fighting PvM. Much the same another guildmate does, who has skizofrenia and cannot focus either.

    While I don't say this for you to go 180 on things, I say this to present to you, that these are real people and the UO team shares an equal responsibility for allowing this to become so widespread for the entire existance of UO. Not to mention, even more so for making the EC vs CC UI so unbalanced in capabilities that many feels forced to "upgrade" their UI options through cheating to be able to keep the CC experience.

    I don't personally do that, but I certainly play less and less, because I don't want the EC, I want the game I fell in love with and I'll play it even on my Watercooled 980X,2x480GTXHC,12Gb RAM, C300 SSD, 3x24 inch monitors, despite so many better graphical MMOs out there. UO is what I love.

    I would really also hate to lose so many I know, either directly or indirectly through them quitting because their friends are gone...that would really be some of the final nails in the coffin for me and the game, as I really would have almost no one left to play with and that would make it a sad sad game.
     
  37. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    You know I think I really like this one. <g>

    If the numbers saying that 35% to 40% of UO Players are cheaters are right and all of them got dumped into fel for a hundred hours of active play with all their gold & pixel crack, EA might see a massive income from a rush of returning PKers & Thieves who sign back up to enjoy the preyfest. <laugh!>
     
  38. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    no you would not be put in jail (unless you willingly loaned it to someone with out a license or under the influence) but you are legally and financially responsible for any and all damage and or tickets such as parking etc. the auto gets while in use by any driver you loan the vehicle to . so in other words YOUR RESPONSIBLE its YOUR choice to loan it out NOT EAs :gun:
     
  39. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    You aren't here. Only parking tickets and speeding.

    The point being is that people really haven't been all that careful with it, as nothing has been enforced for nearly 13 years and as such, making them into some sort of evil monsters all of a sudden is crazy to the max.
     
  40. Serafi

    Serafi Babbling Loonie
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    Reading this thread and others, and Cal`s responses I am not fully convinced this data will be used in any other way than a slight slap on the wrist.

    Has it really come so far that we are to acknowledge and legitimize the use of that other program because there are so many "understandable" situations that "require" it? Are the collective we so concerned of the total users using it that we are afraid UO will die if they are banned?

    Eh? So this is what so many years of neglect does. A slow and invisible corruption of the playerbase.

    I would go for the puritan New England approach. You lot (aka EA/Mythic) need to make that statement. "We did Y to X number of accounts"
     
  41. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    The problem with this degree of punishment, to me, revolves around the use of the "program that shall not be named" for mundane things like skill training, looting, sorting items to unravel, etc. Personally, I don't give a crap if players use a script to train their skills or a pets skill, or to loot a corpse. If you disagree, that's fine, I'm not here to argue this point. Skill gain in this game is pathetic, and many (most?) folks just want to play the higher end content, not work skills. Same with looting...you have a million ophidian corpses around you and you need to find the CBR and loot all the gold before they go public or disappear. Right.rolleyes:

    So those folks that have trained skills in the last few months lose all their stuff? Bah. If you have accounts running 23/7 with EUO running, I understand a ban. But short bursts of it for training and they get banned too? You'll lose MANY players. Not a scare tactic, just fact. I have NO problem with 3 day bans (or similar..maybe 7) for first offense, next time caught is longer, and third time is permanent, but seriously, just a mass banning of anyone who has used them is bull****.

    Oh, and while we're working diligently on cheat detection, can we also improve some systems that would make a trammy use them? Say skill training, looting, potion/keg making, etc? Please?
     
  42. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    This strategy is amusing, but it targets the wrong group of players. Who speedhacks, barrier hacks, pot hacks, etc., in PvM? It's the PvPers (i.e., already fel residents) who are most often accused of cheating.
     
  43. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    Spoken like someone with a small tool lol.:thumbup1:
     
  44. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    As it is? You mean a Cheater's Paradise? Can't ruin the fun of cheaters now can we? <starts to feel he's being absolutely mean and heartless>

    That just wouldn't be fair to the poor, little, harmless, innocent, sweet, loving, caring, huggable, cheaters... <wipe the tears from his eyes>

    Ah yes! The old UO will be destroyed over this line of bull.

    Amazing how removing the greatest fault this game has will destroy it.

    Of course, if you've read these boards for 10 years, you know that changing Anything that someone finds fun will destroy UO... <yawns at hearing the tired old line... again...>
     
  45. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Actually, and I think this is true in many situations, neglecting an issue for too long makes the problem eventually so hard to deal with that what would have been the best dealing way sometimes ain't an option any longer......

    That is why it is better not to neglect important issues for too long.....

    Don't they say about one's own health that prevention is much better than curing ?

    Anyways, as in regards to Ultima Online only those privy of how bad the situation is can think of what the best possible ways to deal with it are.

    Personally, I wish that a clear and loud signal is sent out to players that Ultima Online is not and cannot be any longer the game of rampant cheating.

    What to do with the accounts found in violation and the ill-gotten items well, I hope the Devs judgement will be the right one and most of all, fair towards ALL players, including those who never cheated AND, because of this, suffered dearly playing with a gross handicap.
     
  46. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Personnally I could care less about fel. What is done to deal with cheating there isn't a concern of mine. I rarely go there.

    EA could always punish Cheaters in fel by locking them out of fel for a number of hours of active play, with their bankbox contents placed in the 'cells or whatever' in fel and exposed to the Thieves. The Cheater would be in a no PvP area without any access to anything he wasn't carrying on him for a set period of active play. He goes back after his sentence to see what his fellow players have left for him. That would be a decent penalty.
     
  47. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    A lot of people play in both facets. These players want to see cheating addressed globally.

    Amusing, as I said, but a poor solution.
     
  48. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    <laugh> Then throw the blues into fel, the reds into Tram, and put their bankbox contents into the cells for the Thieves to enjoy.

    I'm sure the Devs can come up with a suitable punishment. :)

    A game I played for about 20 years had a great penalty for crimes. Your character was placed in stocks in front of the town bank and would be periodically asked a question by a GM to make sure the player was there playing his character and not afk. A few hours of serious boredom for anyone not a serious roleplayer I imagine. :)
     
  49. They should only delete any items determined to be obtained via cheats under the new detection system. A lot of people have a lot of resources etc... just because we've been playing for so many years, you can't punish us for obtaining these items fairly because of the shattered in-game economy. You also can't prove somebody obtained their excessive store of items via cheating unless there is data to support that conclusion.

    Short of shutting down the program that shall not be named, cheating will never be stopped completely. The people developing it have far fewer obstacles than the people trying to develop the anti-cheat measures in UO. They don't have to be concerned with profit, nor do they have to be concerned with corporate policy or quality assurance. They just figure out what they need to do to get around something and they do so.

    We also need to be concerned with (and I'm sure this is the delay) false positives. Any anti-cheat system implemented must be absolutely sure they aren't banning players who aren't using those programs. This is so complicated because of the way the programs work.

    All these things considered, how do you administer the punishment? I think the first thing they should attack is scripting related to online businesses. I"m not at all against the online sale of in-game items because wherever there is a consumer there will be a producer, but I am against those who use illegal means to operate their business. They should not only include detection of the illegal procedures to obtain items/resources, but also track those items in-game to determine the complete supply line. You obviously know there's an issue if accounts are constantly created and receiving billions of gold in a short period of time...especially if that gold is coming from related sources. These people should be banned permanently.

    Cheats to advance progress in the game I'm divided on. Speedhacking needs to be stopped as a balance to PvP...I'd rather see some type of server control that prevents it from happening than detection mechanisms that result in bans. Attempting to speedhack should result in a 3-day ban if you're a repeat offender, but it should never work in the first place. I personally find these people funny anyways...they're just bad PvPers who need some mechanism to give them an upper hand.

    Finally, those who script to work skills. I have no problems with this *IF* it is attended. If you are attended and you script your magery more power to you...you won't have carpel tunnel and I will. The problem comes in when you use that script to benefit yourself outside of skilling. This is the toughest to deal with because it's the toughest to track. If a suitable tracking mechanism were implemented, I'd like this to be considered a minor infraction the first time, an intermediate infraction the second time, and a severe infraction the third time.

    Anyone banned for any of these things should be stripped of anything gained, and it should be deposited in my personal bank account for further inspection. :pint:
     
  50. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I certainly agree with this. I imagine all the repetition I've done in games over the years training things that can't be trained via just playing is part of why I have my current problems.

    I had a GM arrive to check on me one time and with all the container windows I had open I didn't see him and didn't react until the computer screen suddenly changed to a jail area. That got my attention.

    It's amazing how far into a coma-like state you can drift after a couple hours of just pushing the same UOA macro key every few minutes. :)
     
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