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Can anybody give me one good reason for this stupidity?.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Bobar, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I tend to train all my pets even the ones on chars with no Animal Lore etc. So I duly take my new turkey out and begin training. Well they aint the mightiest pet in the stable and sure enough it gets killed. Off I go to the local vet and what do I get 'That creatures spirit lacks cohesion try again in a few minutes' and sure enough I have to wait and wait and wait and after about 8 MINUTES I finally get a res. WHY? why do I have to wait twiddling my thumbs for that long? I can see no rhyme nor reason for it, am I missing something?. As far as I can see its simply a ridiculous imposition for no reason at all.
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    The reason for the 'stupidity' was the insistence that the role of tamers not be diminished and that rez by vet should be the last resort. Your first port of call is supposed to be a player. Don't blame the devs for this one. Players instigated it.
     
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  3. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Thanks for the reply and I can see the strength of the original argument, unfortunately the days when players were numerous enough to support it is long gone. When Brit bank was thriving all manner of trades were to be found there and a res easy to find. I think it is time for a rethink on this particular aspect of play. To wait that long every time my weak pet gets killed is unsupportable at the present time. To try to find a vet would possibly take even longer if no friends or guildies are online at many times of the day.
     
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  4. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    It never has worked as intended. Remember this is new from SA. Brit bank had already given way to Luna, most tamers there are AFK and some of the ones that aren't will merely tell you to take the pet to the stable. Sometimes a plea for help in general chat will meet with a response.
     
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  5. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Insta rez from the NPC vet would be a bad crutch for tamers wanting to be vetless in their template. Vet is a traditional skill in the tamer template. Why reward those breaking tradition with a quick pet rez?
     
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  6. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Actually the penalty for the vet-less tamer is in the price.
     
  7. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    Not 100% sure you mean what I think you mean :) But while both my main tamers do have vet, I barely ever use it. Casting greater healing from a short distance off does just as well, and is far safer.
     
    #7 Vor, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    no, sorry, that's not what I meant. The cost of getting a pet rezed by NPC varies based on the type of pet and taming required to own it. It costs considerably more to get a greater dragon ressurected than Bobar's ghostly turkey.
     
  9. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    Ahh, sorry. I didn't know it cost to have them NPC rezzed. I thought you meant price as in giving up your vet skill! :)

    I've never actually had to use the NPC vet, since I've got tamers on both accounts.
     
  10. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    It does serve a purpose though. It's one more additional way to waste players limited playtime so they will be more inclined to go elsewhere to spend that playtime. Takes more than just endless grinds to do that you know. They've got some really dedicated players to deal with.
     
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  11. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    That's a new one for me. I didn't know it costs to have your pet's resurrected by an NPC because, to own pets like a Greater Dragon, and to be a strong Tamer, isn't a HIGH VET SKILL required? If not, then going with TAMING SKILL and LORE is enough? Thus the NPC Vet fills in for being the VET SKILL? hahah .. I've only been a tamer since Day 1 of UO and now I am learning all this?

    As far as others without Vet Skills needing to have their pets resurrected, I have alawys thought it should be the duty of all Tamers with high vet skills, to resurrect pets that have died no matter who owns them. But it seems, as Bobar points out, and especially on Sonoma, there are very few Tamers to be found any longer hanging around the banks ready to help. Those that are there, are often AFK. So ... what is a reasonable solution? A compromise? Reduce waiting Time and/or charge higher NPC prices?

    As a full fledged Tamer, I solo fight Paragon Greater Dragons and heavy dangerous montster spawns with a Greater Dragon using bandages, casting bless/greater heal/cure and recalling when things go wrong, to ressurect the dragon, then back we go to continue the fight immediately :fight:

    A real Tamer doesn't have to depend on NPC's for resurrecting their pets. Trying to use NPC's for resurrection seems to be a weak way to achieve anything. I can't see not letting the NPC's resurrect their pets for them almost immediately. It seriously isn't going to achieve much for the Tamer without enough Veterinarian Skills. Some players, like the craftsman, would enjoy no delay by NCP resurrections too.
     
    #11 Jade of Sonoma, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  12. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    IMO the timer for a NPC res should be done away with. If you are in a fight that can be recalled away from if your pet dies and come back to finish the fight, more power to you. The fact that most PvM tamers are mages and so many of the new mobs have some sort of AOE it has really religated the use of vet to just being able to res. My tamer has 120 vet and I rarely need to use it just for heals. The only real advantage in PvM to having vet is being able to res a pet inside an encounter that can not be easily returned to if you leave like a peerless. In truth, even that can be overcome with the res pot made from Medussa blood or the res spell from spellweaving.
     
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  13. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    True enough there was a cost to resurrect my turkey, 100gp I paid and obviously I have no quibble with that. I have a tamer with all 120 skills but he is of no use to me when another of my characters has a dead pet. Most of my characters with other templates have one or 2 pets and no animal skills at all. Pets like dogs, squirrels, ferrets and vollems from crystals as well as rabbits from long ago (the rare ones).
    As I said in my original post I like to train them all and it seems I must endure this wait whenever one dies. Finding a vet to res pets is no longer the reasonable task it once was, the reason for the delay is now obsolete and it is time to remove it. It has always been possible to have weak pets and pets from crystals were introduced so I feel it is time to update the game to recognise not everyone has time to spare waiting for an unwanted and now unneeded delay time to expire.

    At the moment a player with a pet needing a res by NPC has a triple penalty to pay - the first is cost (for low pets this is negligible) - the second is that the pet loses 2 points off each skill - the 3rd is this seemingly endless wait for the NP{C to condescend to res your pet.

    How to make the game real fun to play!!!!!!
     
    #13 Bobar, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
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  14. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    With the current population and the lands so spread out it is hard to get a Pet Rez anywhere in UO. NPCs are already charging a fee for thier service so there should be no timer for a Pet Rez.
     
  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Thank God I have so many tamers and thankfully I can always rez my own pet on my shard... it's when I go somewhere else I tend to have trouble.
     
  16. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    That is a good argument against!

    I think if you want to be a Tamer one should chose to have all three skills and magery. Yet, to be fair, there should be some compromise for lesser pets to be rezzed without being charged NPC Fees, such as those pets owned by resource harvesters like a miner or lumberjack, so their beetle could be rezzed immediately allowing the craftsplayer to get back to work in time to salvage lost resourses.

    If you want to hunt dangerous locations, casting greater heal would not be enough while fighting a seriously heavy monster spawn. When hunting for Paragon Chests, for example, this would often be the case so you would need to be able to cast greater heal/cure/strength/ frequently, while also healing with aides in order for your pet to survive. It's usually a small problem to get close to your pet to heal it with spells and aides. Call your pet to your side, which will drag the monster(s) with its. Cast invis on self and wait until all monsters are focused on your pet. Get close slowly, prepared to invis. Once in position to heal with aides, the Tamer needs to save mana, prepared to invis self in case any new spawn approaching hasn't focused on your pet. If things get too tight, the Tamer needs to recall with pet following. Tamer can then heal their pet and self and return to finish the fight from another direction. Carry enough bandages and meat for long battles.

    There's another number of things I have yet to learn about in Merus's post. hahah!!
    I don't even know where to start with the res pot made from Medussa blood or res spell from spellweaving. Thanks for all that information, Merus. Other Tamers will probably understand and learn to use those methods fast, much faster than me, that's for sure.

    FUN!
     
    #16 Jade of Sonoma, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  17. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    Now add 12 more minutes to that, and you are in the same shoes as faction players.

    With the pace of RL, and even UO, today waiting 8 minutes, 20 minutes, or what ever the time maybe sure is frustrating, isn't it?
     
  18. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I thought this was UO and players were free to build their templates how they wanted. I play a gargish disco tamer with magery and 120 vet, and I can tell you I can fight most anything with my GD and never use vet and survive just fine. IMO adding penalties for not having a skill that you almost never need to use is rather pointless. If folks like to heal with aids, thats great! If folks like the extra stable slots you get having the extra 120 skill pints in vet, awsome! Forcing players into a rare but pointless wait because their normal play style does not require vet seems outdated to me. Let them pay the stable NPC the fee and move on.
     
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  19. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    I just have to; "One good reason" ;) There..I gave one to you.
     
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  20. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    I rarely go looking for someone to rez my pet like swampy, but go to my house log out/in and log in my tamer on another account. Rez my pet, log the tamer out, and then go back to whatever I was doing. The whole pet interaction in our game needs to be looked at by the developers. I would be fine if tamers could craft a resurrection scroll that has a certain number of uses and freely tradable or sellable by players.

    This is the same kind of thing that happens with my crafter. As my armor is worn I log my crafter in and repair it. I don't really have the interaction with other players by choice. When UO first came out I didn't have multiple accounts and had friends continuously logged in and high population locations so there were lots of interaction with other players.

    In this case it is what it is...I have three active accounts since ML came out. Developers cannot force interaction or even greatly compel it without causing inconveniences. I'm not certain that was any developers reasoning as stated above, but if it were it likely wouldn't work.

    -Lorax
     
  21. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    If you want to train a pet with a char who can't rez it, you have 2 options really. Either you only train it on safe creatures that won't kill it, whatever happens, or have vet soulstoned and ready to go if you have an accident. Actually you also have the third option of skilling up that character with vet/lore while you train a new pet, at least while it's weakest. There comes a point when you want the benefits from a skill, so you probably should just soulstone it over. With instant soulstoning, we have the freedom to switch templates specifically for what we're going to do that day. So I don't think the NPC vets need changing at all. Players have other options long before a pet dies, and hey, at least pets can be resurrected. Once upon a time we had to tame fresh pets or buy them. It's funny how quick we take the conveniences in UO for granted ;)

    A pet that dies regularly isn't going to train up very efficiently. So I'd train little pets on gentle stuff, especially passive creatures like deathwatch beetles and gaman. Then there is no danger of a pet death in the first place. The Hunter's Guide has a very nifty search option to let you search by skill so you can choose the safer foes to train on. If need be, stay on an easier creature for a bit longer than you should for optimal gains, if it means the pet is safe from a tougher opponent. If you still have problems, have a macro to recall out if things go pear-shaped. Or train the pet vs another pet you can command to stop should the new one start to struggle. But your best option is to be overly careful if you find yourself impatient around the NPC vet. Even though most of my pet trainers have vet, I still act over cautious. I'd even employ a tank pet if I was training something really weak so there truly was no chance it would die. Ensure the tank pet is being targeted by the spawn then tell it to stop. Let your weaker pet attack the spawn while you calmly throw the odd bandage on your tank.

    The timer is not too long - when we had tamers all around able to rez a pet, it still often took a few minutes just finding one. If a guildie came out, that often took about as long. I consider it a good reminder to stand up, stretch and make a cuppa if you've been playing for a while, a lot of players don't take nearly as many breaks as they should while things are busy. So I see timers like that as quite beneficial even if you're cursing at them.

    A few gold coins and a timer is easy to replace with vet on a soulstone. If it bothered me waiting, I'd train a spare vet. Think there was a pet rez potion in the online UO shop too lol.

    Wenchy
     
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  22. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    I've not done paragon chests for years so can't say about that :)

    But primarily casting just greater heal/cure (I don't care about blessing pets. I never had) does me fine against Navrey night-eyes, multiple diseased blood elementals, two unbound energy vortex etc. I've even found it possible to duel client with my bard tamer, and have my mage tamer keep both GDs up with just Greater Healing, which throwing out discords etc as needed from the second account. I have 190ish mana, 120 med, 40% LMC, 100%, crazy high SDI and around 23 MR on the tamer mages suit, so conserving mana isn't an issue when casting low mana using spells like cure and greater heal.

    Biggest problem I face with high spawn areas is a lack of time to loot. But that's due to the way I heal pets. It's due to annoying instant respawn :)

    I use my mystic dexxer for things like Medussa, so I can't say how this tactic fairs on other peerless.

    As I said, I have vet. I just don't use it 99% of the time.
     
    #22 Vor, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
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  23. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I'll be the antagonist here and suggest that what's good for npc pet rez should also be good for player rez. Solo hunting and can't get a rez from another player? Find an npc to rez you and will cost based on your skill points. :popcorn:
     
    #23 Hunters' Moon, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I think the term you were looking for is 'devil's advocate'. I guess I could live with wandering healers making a charge, on top of insurance costs that is. However the high rez fees from an NPC vet only applies to tamers who decide to manage without the skill themselves.
     
  25. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    What of the non-tamer fighters out there that play without working up the sacrafice virtue? It's part of the game as well. Self rez should be more of a benefit than just saving yourself from having to run four screens away for a healer.
     
  26. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    It is. You also don't have to run/fight all the way back to your body to rescue all your consumables that aren't insurable. There can be quite a difference between rezing with just your insured items and rezing with everything you had with you.
     
  27. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    What I found so annoying was having to waste a tenth of a couple hour chance to play every time my packer decided to throw itself into the jaws of a monster you would think it would have the sense to run from. Anyone who rides an actual horse instead of using an ethereal runs into the same problem after losing a fight, the horse is killed as well, writing off another tenth of that couple hours of playtime you've managed to come up with between work & family. Try that tough monster and lose three times a quarter of your couple hours playtime is shot waiting out that pet rezzer NPC timer. Lose six times and half your couple hour playtime is shot waiting. Sitting and waiting tends to be boring, I'd often pop into another game and get playing it instead.
     
  28. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I have read many of these posts with interest. My understanding of UO is that everybody makes their characters to suit the way they want to play. There seems to be a body of opinion here that everybody should play in the same way as the majority (or else). If I like to train nothing pets for fun I should be able to do so without restriction caused by my character not having a particular skill other than not having the abilities of that skill, as long as it is possible to do so.. If any player wishes to have a tamer without the Vet skill why shouldnt they?. Where is it laid down that Tamers MUST have Vet?. My tamer has Vet but that is my choice I see no reason to penalise someones tamer that does not. I think that if they do not have Vet they do not receive the full complement of stable slots altho I am not sure of this.

    Weak tameable pets exist and indeed others have been introduced, the latest being the turkey. It is recognised therefore that players will tame and keep them. They are tameable by anyone with no taming skill. Is it required therefore that one MUST have a tamer to keep them?. No it is not. If ordinary characters do not have taming skill, in the same context, should there not be a delay each time you want to tame one? yet there is not so why is there still a delay if you need one ressed?

    The original reason it was introduced may well have been somewhat valid at that time, it certainly has no validity in todays UO it is just an unecessary nuisance.
     
  29. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    :scholar: Elixir of rebirth????

    You don't need vet and can res your pet all by yourself
     
  30. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Actually, I've always found it to be a pain in the rear. My tamer happens to be on the same account as my miner and my warrior, so anytime my beetle or my swampy dies I have the same wait as you have just discovered is so onerous. My tamer can't help and I've rarely found help from others.

    It is not 'laid down' that tamers must have vet - but there are downsides to not having it. Just as there are downsides to a warrior not having healing or a mage not having meditation. Having said that, there's no reason that a change to this couldn't be asked for as part of the pet revamp that's on the team's agenda.
     
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  31. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    Just throwing it out there... maybe some sort of change so that the timer is done away with but more times you have a pet rezzed by the NPC the more it costs, till you get the total reset by having a player rez the pet? Would it work? No idea. Is it a stupid idea? Most likely.
     
    #31 Vor, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  32. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    Vor - you are one incredible multi-tasking maniac! - - hahaha It makes me wonder what you would do with another computer and more accounts - :rolleyes2: - train your toes to multi-task on keyboards and hot keys? -- - hahahaha .. carry on! Enjoy - .:popcorn:

    Oops - do I see another edited editing mistake? - of course, Yes!
    "Call your pet to your side, which will drag the monster(s) with its. it. Correction made.

    Forgot to add in my posts that many times I am in areas where recalling out of a dangerous situation with a Pet is not an option (eg: collecting Paragon Greater Dragon Chests) so I have to run off screen fast to where I can cast invis on self and/or use my pet summoning ball to remove pet from dangerous situations, making it possible to return and complete the battle from another direction.


     
    #32 Jade of Sonoma, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  33. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Bobar in many of my travels I have stopped to answer the cry for a pet rez... Like what Petra said in the begining call out ask for a rez... many will answer you maybe even me!
    As for the lazy vet npc's..... hun I can honestly see the need for the timer as many would forgo the skill of training vet to just pay for it and be done with it for the chance to add another skill usefull for pvp or hunting. I know many a tamer now who relys on others to rez or that npc to dot he job for them... its sad. And it means I get yelled for alot more...
    Now if only I could remember what I was doing before I got called to rez that silly packie........... thinking it was a dragon......
     
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  34. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    How often is Medusa Blood available to make the Elixir? Pretty rare right? Have her drop a stack of 1000 and it may work out right.

    -Lorax