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Can anyone think of 1 good reason to have a 5 or 10 sec delay between bod turn-ins?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Of course the obvious thing that comes to mind is scripting. But as many people have already stated, scripters will simply put a small fix into their scripts and continue on their merry way. It will just be an annoyance for the player manually turning in bods.

    5 or 10 seconds isn't the end of the world, buy why have the extra annoyance for no reason. For the life of me, I can't think of a positive for this change.

    Everyone else that sees it the way I do, keep posting as such. Maybe we can get them to get rid of this before it goes live.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yep, scripter will always be the ones to benefit from making things tougher on the average player. Does anyone actually mine enough now without scripting to keep a vendor in stock? I doubt it.
     
  3. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

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    <blockquote><hr>

    Everyone else that sees it the way I do, keep posting as such. Maybe we can get them to get rid of this before it goes live.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A long time ago... in a galaxy far far away...

    I pondered why changes were made without prior notice and discussion. We get a little blurb on changes in the current (coming down the pipes no turning back now) patch. If we are really lucky there is a little more info but usually no explanation is offered... UNTIL.. there is a huge outcry on Stratics... etc.

    Is it just crazy or selfish of me to expect EA to do the following:

    1. List changes at least 2 weeks prior to a publish.
    2. Include an explanation for the changes.

    The only exceptions I can see would be changes to fix an exploit or bug, which should be implemented ASAP.

    Do the dev's at EA really just come up with all this stuff the week before the patch?

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Not to argue with your general idea, but that change was talked about here in November.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ok, I must have missed it as well. But again, why? Don't see any purpose of making BOD turn-in more annoying and again introduce a feature that will most likely turn more to use scripts for turn-ins?

    I am with the OP and I can't see any positive reason for this change.
     
  6. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

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    <blockquote><hr>

    Not to argue with your general idea, but that change was talked about here in November.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fair enough, but by "talked about here" did you mean you made an announcement about the upcoming change or were the folks on Stratics tossing around ideas?

    You see the difference, right?
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Yep, scripter will always be the ones to benefit from making things tougher on the average player. Does anyone actually mine enough now without scripting to keep a vendor in stock? I doubt it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Connor Graham does and i know he doesnt script.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yes, I agree there was plenty of warning about this change. What there wasn't plenty of though, is people that like this change or think it's a good idea.
     
  9. I agree. It's not going to help the average player, nor the game mechanics so why do it? It is simply something they can do to seem like they are fixing issues related to bod timers when in all actuality all they are doing is making an already noticeable problem worse.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ok thanks for that link.

    But why did it go from 5 seconds (in that linked posting) to 10 seconds on the notes now?
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And for the most part people were against the change. Why push it through anyway. I was pretty excited about the BOD changes and thought about actually doing BODs again (have a whole 18x18 piled up with BODs), but this little detail totally deflated that idea.
     
  12. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    This was talked about quite a bit in Wilki's post about these changes. If you look through that thread, there were many discussions about it. Originally, it was going to be a 10 second delay, but Wilki changed it to 5 seconds after several comments from players. Unfortunately, it appears EA/Mythic went with the 10 second delay.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As near as we can tell, Wilki never actually documented or made the 5 second change. I believe Draconi's planning to tweak it in the next publish.
     
  14. <blockquote><hr>

    Ok thanks for that link.

    But why did it go from 5 seconds (in that linked posting) to 10 seconds on the notes now?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Just a wild guess , but the timer is maybe in place to prevent UO from becoming more item saturated...

    You turn in 1000 Barbed kits bods , take what 3 seconds? =3000 seconds (about an hour)

    BOD buffer timer 10 seconds , with same amount about would take you a few hours or more ( my math show 10 hours, [​IMG] )

    Just my 2 cents
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    you can only hold 500 bod on you person at a time (this maxs out your inventory) plus you are not accounting for all the other items you get while turning in bods (cloth,sandals, power scrolls, mining gloves, shovels, pickaxes, pofs).
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    5 seconds is obviously better than 10 seconds, but still there is no reason for the delay at all. let's make it 0 seconds as it is now. If nobody likes the delay and it doesn't enhance the game in anyway or stop scripting, then why keep going with it?
     
  17. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

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    The post you are referring to was made &gt;&gt;&gt; #7506525 - 11/19/07 06:39 PM

    Today is 02/08/2008.

    I dont want to have to split hairs over this, there should be some connection between a timely official post and the implementation of the changes.

    Also, there seems to be an assumption that everyone reads Stratics. There are many folks that just rely on the information that they are provided with when they start UO. They shouldn't find about changes at the same time they are downloading the patch.

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  18. I know that it was just an example , but you get my point hopefully..
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If that was really a concern, all they had to do is to cap the amount of BODs you can turn in per day.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Typically, the only people that are turning in 1000 bods at once are scriptors, so having it take 3 hours or 10 hours doesn't put less items into the game. They'll just run it while they sleep. However, if the regular player that does actually do that many bods is gonna have to take 10 hours to turn them in, then you bet they're prolly gonna stop doing bods. So, i guess malice would be correct that less items would be entering the game afterall.

    I'm pretty sure that's not the goal though, to make it only possible for scripters to get these items. Especially, since these crafting changes are exciting and are gonna get more people back into crafting again.
     
  21. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

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    <blockquote><hr>

    As near as we can tell, Wilki never actually documented or made the 5 second change. I believe Draconi's planning to tweak it in the next publish.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So all of the screaming that we've been doing about stopping scripters, and THIS is what you listened to? 5 or 6 posters that said, "put a delay on turn ins"? That's how you're going to tackle the War on Scripting? good lord....
     
  22. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Typically, the only people that are turning in 1000 bods at once are scriptors, so having it take 3 hours or 10 hours doesn't put less items into the game. They'll just run it while they sleep. However, if the regular player that does actually do that many bods is gonna have to take 10 hours to turn them in, then you bet they're prolly gonna stop doing bods. So, i guess malice would be correct that less items would be entering the game afterall.

    I'm pretty sure that's not the goal though, to make it only possible for scripters to get these items. Especially, since these crafting changes are exciting and are gonna get more people back into crafting again.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You know what, if the idea is to make certain task so impossible to do normally that only a script would be successful, then I"m all for that. But make it so it's not possible to do it legally, because sure as s**t someone is going to come on and *claim* how they still do it legitamately.

    Put a 10 second timer on it, hell put a 1 minute timer on it. As long as someone at EA will do the math and figure out the max number of possible gains on an item, and then do a simple database investigation, and then get rid of the a$$holes with X number of this or that, that you KNOW could not have been gotten legally. Jesus it's so simple it's stupid...


    Because it doesn't take a Rocket scientist to know that......if you set a time limit on anything, and it's only possible to get exactly 124,682 of "insert item here" in a 23 hr and 50 minute window per day...some people in this game, are going to get 124,682 of "whatever item we're talking about", and they're going to have it in their immediate possession (person/bank box) for at least 10 minutes (hint hint, server up check time). And then you ban them, and every account/credit card associated with them...
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Okay, perhaps a silly suggestion - but what abput an incremental timer for turning in BODs? So the more you turn in in a given timeframe, the longer the wait between each turn in? Wouldn't overly hurt the average player, not as much as a set wait, but would increasingly hurt the scripters who turn in 100+ at a time...

    Say a second for the first ten, then two for the next ten, etc.

    Thoughts?
     
  24. zarobhr

    zarobhr Guest

    why do people think that if your turning in over 100 bods your a scriptor
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think its great.
    Id say 10 sec and limit 100 a day.
    I hope the devs get bold.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've been doing all the bods I could today so I can avoid the coming timer.

    =/

    If I don't get a Bkit large by then ill most likely just sell em all and clean up enough room in my houses to be able to drop one.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Okay, perhaps a silly suggestion - but what abput an incremental timer for turning in BODs? So the more you turn in in a given timeframe, the longer the wait between each turn in? Wouldn't overly hurt the average player, not as much as a set wait, but would increasingly hurt the scripters who turn in 100+ at a time...

    Say a second for the first ten, then two for the next ten, etc.

    Thoughts?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Absolutely BRILLIANT.
    I am serious.
    You deserve a castle.

    BOD
    first 25 1 sec
    2nd 25 3 sec
    3rd 25 6 seconds
    4th 25 12 seconds
    5th 25 24 seconds
    6th 25 48 seconds
    7th 25 and thereafter 1 minute.

    CAN A DEV COMMENT ON THEIR IDEA. This is brilliant.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You might not be a scriptor.
    But you might be.
    There is always that 1% that is hurt that legit do 500 bods I guess.

    And players playing normally my also be showing a flaw in the game. Your not cheating but its not good for the game enviro.

    Now whether thats 100 bods or 250 bods or 500 bods.

    But again I dont know.
     
  29. mmmmm ... howabout ... there's no real need for instant drop 20 filled deeds on a reclaim NPC .. ??

    As is ... can pretty quickly drop and claim 1 for 1 .. in what ... 2 seconds?
    (drop, thankyou reward dispersal, check status, claim ... repeat)

    I mean ... not like ITS PvP where time ticks are critical ... [​IMG] eh ?

    Drop a deed, claim a deed ...
    Just how fast IS that supposed to go ... [​IMG]

    'sides ... even at an unlikely 10sec "cooldown" ... 6 in 6 out ... a minute
    just saying ...
    How many are possible now ? 12 in 12 out ...? ...is it even that HIGH? without a delay being mentioned ...

    I mean ... sure ... if ALL your doing is turning IN bods ... not getting blanks back out ...
    maybe a delay could somehow seem onerious ...

    *shrugs*
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Make it a lot higher than that though, it should be scaled to the current system, like perhaps increments of 100 or 200 would be way better.
     
  31. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Yep, I'm 100% against it. Its an honest player nerf and something the scripters can't wait for.

    Make it harder for honest players to get runics and jack up the prices.
     
  32. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    <blockquote><hr>


    5 seconds is obviously better than 10 seconds, but still there is no reason for the delay at all. let's make it 0 seconds as it is now. If nobody likes the delay and it doesn't enhance the game in anyway or stop scripting, then why keep going with it?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Amen.

    Spend less time adding 'timers' and more time fixing bugs and adding content.

    Thx.
     
  33. OptPrime

    OptPrime Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Typically, the only people that are turning in 1000 bods at once are scriptors

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thats not true.. i spend millions of gold per month on cloth bods from players on my shard and take my time filling them up.. then turn them in all at once... because its easier to see your rewards when done at once, then 15 at a time.

    This idea is bad.. because you figure that it'll limit barbed kits even more to the scripters because they can run clients 24/7, reguardless of the turnin time, because of editing scripts. It will prevent more kits from hitting the market, but it will also be taking away from those of us who legitly do them, rather then the scripters.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    While it may be annoying, I do find it's a good move. 10 sec is not that hard to wait.
    If it can slow down the scripters, it's worth it.
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *smiles* Keep fighting the good fight, Freja. One day they will listen to us.
     
  36. Wait a second ... more details there please ..

    <blockquote><hr>

    Thats not true.. i spend millions of gold per month on cloth bods from players on my shard and take my time filling them up.. then turn them in all at once... because its easier to see your rewards when done at once, then 15 at a time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    However many you turn in ... for whatever rewards ...are you saying its "too much bother"

    to pull the entitled bod after each ?
    skip the chance of pulling a "master LBOD" ... or 1 Key SBOD to fill a LBOD ?

    ...
    more details there please ..
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *chuckles* Some do protest too much.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    *chuckles* Some do protest too much.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    hehe
     
  39. RAEL of LS

    RAEL of LS Guest

    I can live with the 10 sec timer for bods... its not that bad.. really...

    What really needs a timer on it is mining... take it back to how it used to be... a delay between pick strikes... slow down the resource gathering a bit... or even put a random timer with limits... make it so that the delay between strikes is associated with stamina and make stamina diminish the more you mine... then the timer will increase as you go and viola you have a cure for scriptors, too...
    (apply to all resources if ya like...)

    Besides...
    I mean really.... do ya really need to turn in bods at a rate of 10 per 10 seconds? with the timer at 10 secs thats 6 bods per minute... not bad compared to the old standard of 600+ game minutes delay between each bod pull... When I look at it like that the whole timer issue implodes...


    RAEL of LS
     
  40. AncientGeek

    AncientGeek Guest

    What on earth gave you the idea that this would slow down a scripter? That's a silly, illogical conclusion. Worst case scenerio they simply add a delay in the script and use an extra dummy account or two to turn in simultaneously-- though this would probably be unnecessary as I doubt there are many scripters running in a turn-in script 24 hours per day. The bods have to be filled sometime afterall. This will have absolutely zero impact on a script but will make the system needlessly frustrating on the average player.

    Every time they try to make things harder on the scripter they make it far worse for the rest of us.
     
  41. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree SOMETHING should be done, and while "the best answers are ussually the simple ones" I really don't think that translates well to this problem.

    I really think the idea for a daily hardcap, or the incremential timer are much better ideas to fit the problem at hand as to avoid hurting the honest players.
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    What on earth gave you the idea that this would slow down a scripter? That's a silly, illogical conclusion. Worst case scenerio they simply add a delay in the script and use an extra dummy account or two to turn in simultaneously-- though this would probably be unnecessary as I doubt there are many scripters running in a turn-in script 24 hours per day. The bods have to be filled sometime afterall. This will have absolutely zero impact on a script but will make the system needlessly frustrating on the average player.

    Every time they try to make things harder on the scripter they make it far worse for the rest of us.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Ah maybe mathematics.

    If you can turn in 1 bod per second, how many bods can you turn in - 60 seconds?

    Answer 60

    If you can turn in 1 bod every 10 seconds, how many bods can you turn in - in 60 seconds?

    Answer 6

    Maybe slow down is not the right term. It inhibits scripting.

    thats 360 vs what 3600 per hour.
     
  43. AncientGeek

    AncientGeek Guest

    Your math is myopic. It doesn't matter in the slightest to a script how many you can turn in during one minute. It matters whether you can turn in all the bods that you fill in one day. Thus if you have 2000 bods to turn in it will now take 20,000 seconds aka about five and a half hours. What does a script care if it takes five hours or 30 minutes? Anyone running a script to turn in bods will see zero impact as long as they have less than 8000 bods or so per day. If there are those turning in more than that, which I doubt, simply need to use another account to turn them in.

    This will have absolutely zero impact on a script. Meanwhile the person turning in fifty has to stare at the screen and count to ten before clicking again. It's senseless.
     
  44. Sitting there for 5 hours with the npc barking every time you turn one in might get you caught.

    I heard the devs "hate" cheaters.

    Yeh, yeh, but there is always hope.

    OZ
     
  45. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Look the real reasons for having a timer is plain. Now I simply cant do my turn ins on the same account computer as my playing account. It will just take to long furthering my need for another account past being able to actually play the game.

    Great sales tactic for the addicted !
     
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yeah, EA policy seems to be: Make the legit players frustrated and angry while the scritpers just shrug, go afk, and profit. [​IMG]
     
  47. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    <blockquote><hr>


    This will have absolutely zero impact on a script. Meanwhile the person turning in fifty has to stare at the screen and count to ten before clicking again. It's senseless.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly.

    The whole problem with bod scripting is ppl with dozens of temp accts gathering bods on every shard with 6 newbie characters around the clock.

    Log in, get bod, log out..next shard....log in, get bod, log out
    With .1 tailor/smith - you get super crap bod every hr. By the time your script finishes getting them from all 29 shards on 6 chars for like 5 accounts -- its time to start over again.

    This and automated filling is the problem with bod scripting - not the turn in time.

    Again - this change does NOT hurt or slow down a scripter. If they have a timer - then get 2 of their accounts turning them in instead of one account. Big deal. Scripters can play 24x7. I can't.
     
  48. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Yep, scripter will always be the ones to benefit from making things tougher on the average player. Does anyone actually mine enough now without scripting to keep a vendor in stock? I doubt it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Connor Graham does and i know he doesnt script.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    LOL, thanks for the advertising plug. [​IMG]

    I even charge less than the scripters. [​IMG]
     
  49. Guest

    Guest Guest

    They are trying to teach everyone how to script. Make changes to normal game play is very frustrating. Then you'll script like everyone else.