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Can EA UO tell the difference between real and duped?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by wishinandunsure, Aug 29, 2008.

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  1. I am aware that the bannings have happened a few weeks ago and that some of you are kinda tired of the topic. Please just not read this if that is the case. Me, I am still thinking about it and wondering what is going on, because one of my accounts was affected by it.
    I have heard that it is very possible that EA UO cannot really tell if an item is duped. And that most likely my account was banned because I had multiples of items. So, the assumption was made by EA UO that these items must be duped because I had over a certain number. Not because they were duped (because, according to the person that I spoke with, they really are unable to tell the difference) but because I had over a certain number of certain items.
    I bought low to sell high (and therefore had back stock), or I bought to use or use at a later date. That is why I had multiples of an item.
    I am just left wondering what I willing put myself into by playing this game. If something like this happened in real life, EA UO would not have any hard proof to take me to court even. So, was I banned just because I had over a certain number of items? Can EA UO even tell the difference between a duped item and a real item? If they cannot, then that would explain why there is a problem with duped items. If they cannot really identify it, then they cannot get rid of it and their only course of action would be to do what they did (delete items that are all in the same location).
    Me, I think that this action is unfair and unjust (of course, because I was affected directly by it). Even with logic, when applied to real life, this type of action would never have happened because it is all circumstantial evidence, and would not be enough to even go to trial (if EA UO cannot tell the difference between real and duped and are only going on numbers alone).
     
  2. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Sure they can. I doubt however they are going to tell you.

    Right now its beware what you buy.

    Just make sure you click your heels three times and say "its not a dupe, its not a dupe, its not a dupe".
     
  3. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    :violin:I am personally certain that everyone that had the items knew fully what they had, whether they duped them themselves, used dummy accounts to duped items, fenced items for duppers, or bought mass items from dupers.

    Your post was a sad attempt to raise more doubt in the the regular players minds.
     
  4. Hemisphere

    Hemisphere Always Present
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    Considering at least one person was banned for having 300mil in checks that were apparently duped, and another person was banned seemingly for having 60mil of similarly tainted money, do you really believe that everybody KNEW what they had?

    Items change hands for 300m or even more all the time in UO now. I'd like to know how you would go about (for example) selling a Trammel grass castle. Go on, I'd really like to hear.

    (and note that GM's will NEVER oversee a trade to ensure the safety of all parties involved)
     
  5. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
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    Im convinced mine was check as thats the only items i had a lot of in the keep, apart from snake skins and i guess that wouldnt do it. full set of all colours.
    my cash left me strapped for cash in game as i wouldnt take cash from friends so i arranged a deal to sell one item. being worried about getting more duped checks i paged for a gm and got a canned response that had nothing whatsoever to do with my page. paged again and just got a flat refusal. so i didnt know whether to go ahead with the deal or not but the trader was happy enuff to put alot of cash into my vendors (trusting soul) so even if they were duds they would be washed by the vendors.
    To this day i still dont know for sure why i was banned. and what ive been trying to get across is that the next time it could be you. ive been asked why i left all my cash in a keep? my answer is that i felt i would have no reason to worry as i never did anything illegal so what risk could there be?
     
  6. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    Who from EA said anyone was banned for having duped checks?

    I can't imagine many duppers wasting time dupping checks now that they can only be in 1 mil quantites? And what dupper wouldn't be smart enough to clean the gold by redeeding it.
     
  7. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    How do you know this? Even the person who got banned can only speculate as EA most certainly did not tell that person what items they were (or were not) banned for.

    And, I highly doubt that they banned anyone for having checks, duped or not. I will eat my hat in real life if it were so.
     
  8. Hemisphere

    Hemisphere Always Present
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    Sorry, I'd been led to understand that the 300m was the stated reason for banning.

    That said Lucy of Kenton in my experience was wary of dupers/duped stuff/other dodgy nonsense almost to a fault, so that would leave the situation in a far more confusing light.

    I think the first thing a lot of people need to do is acknowledge that EA is very often cackhanded when it comes to these sort of issues - notorious dupers and cheaters tend to have an easy time of things, usually because they make conscious efforts to cover their tracks and protect their interests, and at the same time, innocent or essentially innocent players are permabanned without trial* or warning, because a trigger happy GM saw smoke.

    UO policing = SNAFU :D

    *when I say "trial", I don't mean to say that each player should have an ACTUAL trial, but the UO equivalent would be to NOT have your entire house + contents deleted irretrievably, at least not immediately anyway, because that makes it impossible for a senior member of staff to review the ban.
     
  9. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    Well, it was not the checks. I don't even know if you can really "tell" duped checks considering they get laundered by vendor system? And like someone said, why dupe checks when you can dupe runics, rares, high end artifacts? It made sense the last time because you could have super checks which was not the case this time. Lucy and others got banned most likely because they were in possession of duped items (non checks) - may it be artifacts, or runics, or rares.

    Agree on everything else you said.
     
  10. No they cant tell the difference with any dupe of any kind.

    If they had sep. ids for everything...

    The could do a check in a trade window for duping.

    Put in bag of 50 million into trade window. Check ids of checks to each other. If they match, send out an alarm.

    Sure a duper could dupe and put in checks that they know that dont match ids because they are duping 100 different checks but then you could add in

    A gump would you like to check these checks for duping Y/N
    if you click yes it will compare the ids to other checks in the shard.
    You might have to wait 5 minutes but youd know.


    Plus you can transfer your gold to vendor and ask for checks and that creates a new id.

    EA cant tell a dupe. Or the have no simple mechanism to compare ids on a shard. They care. They dont have the tools.

    They can guess.
     
  11. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
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    that account had no runics on it whatsoever and only about 50 minor artifacts and no rares. set of library statues. only fing in quantity were the checks and snakeskins. im still hoping (probably beyond any chance) that they will just say, 'sorry lucy we made a mistake'. if it werent me but someone else i would give them some credit for doing so.
     
  12. Dude, you crack me UP! THANK YOU! It's people like you with the funny comments that keep me playing this game!
    On the note of my orignal post, I am hoping that someone from EA UO will answer this and tell me the truth. That is my hope, but to comment on communication:
    "What we have here is FAILURE to communicate. So, we get what we got here last week. Which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it."
    So, I am hoping... and as far as buying and reselling, I doubt that I will get back into that agian. And like you said, click my heels three times... for when I need to buy something for crafting or armor.
    And Hanna, IF you are the the Hanna in GL that I previously met and chatted with occassionally, you and I acquired items in a similiar fashion. So, I guess it's just luck that you were not caught in the ban as I was. That is IF you are the same person. If you are not, then it's a case of mistaken idenity, and my apologies.
    Well I am off! Going to go camping with the fam, have some real life good times and forget about UO for a bit.
     
  13. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    You should not pass speculations as facts.
     
  14. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Because we all know that EA has never made mistakes, right?

    Their game isn't buggy, there aren't imbalances.

    They haven't consistently introduced new content to forgo bug fixes.

    Let me know yor favorite dressing so I can send it to you to add some flavor to your hat.
     
  15. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Isn't your comment just as speculative?

    If not, I would love to hear how they track certain things.

    Such as: duped gold gets passed to a player via a trade window. that player puts an item on his vendor for sale that is the same amount of gold. He then passes the duped gold to a second account, to which he then goes and buys the item form the vendor.

    voila laundered gold.
     
  16. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest


    Maybe i can u tell the difference:

    it is real if u can play and sleep without heartbeat
    it is duped if u CANT log in next day
    hehe ;)
     
  17. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest




    LOL, why???
    so that the duper can find saver ways to dig theyre "treasures"
     
  18. Kelline

    Kelline Seasoned Veteran
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    I dont know if ea/uo can tell if items r dubes, but common sense tells me that if they cant, they wont admit it cuz alot more dubin might come about if they did. So they claim will always be that *yes we can tell* regardless of weither they really can.

    I still say that the buyer SHOUL NOT get banned for buying,but the item should be deleted. why should they get punished?

    & before u rant *omg they should know its a dube* how? I dont & even readin stratics, I still dont... granted i wont pay alot for an item, not because i think its dubed but because it a pixel & i refuse to pay alot for a piece of pixel. But thats me. Not everyone reads stratics, so how would they know?
     
  19. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    My point was that he doesn't know either.

    Because if he did know, then that would mean EA knows how and they would be able to stop it. but they cant, so he doesnt know either
     
  20. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest

    I dont know if it matters or works , but when ever I trade stuff for checks , I always turn the checks into gold then back into checks of the same value just to make sure if its "dirty" , I wont be held accountable for others peoples wrong doing. I might be wasting my time , but just incase it works , Im willing to keep wasting my time.
     
  21. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    A safe bet... don't buy any high end runic tools from vendors right now, verite hammers, heartwood saws, heartwood fletcher kits, valorite runic hammers. Rares on Luna vendors are similarly bad investments.

    Before anyone says anything, there is obviously a chance one of the above isn't duped, but if you walk into a Mcdonalds expecting to get a glass of expensive wine and a gourmet meal, you'll be hard pressed to find it.
     
  22. Hemisphere

    Hemisphere Always Present
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    I've never personally kept large amounts of checks if I can help it. If it can't fit in your bank then you have to keep it somewhere.. and "keep" can all too easily be misinterpreted as "hide".

    I'm quite certain that one of the things EA are on the look out for when performing these blanket bans would be large quantities of checks stored in houses.

    The Dubai authorities detained a British man for posession of 0.003g of cannabis at the airport (a small speck stuck to the bottom of his shoe) - some authorities just really like to make a conviction :D
     
  23. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    No?

    Speculation: [SIZE=-1]a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence);

    Correct answer to the question posed by the OP is that no one on this boards can really tell unless they are part of the Ultima Online team. They can provide their opinion based on different things but not give a definitive answer.
    [/SIZE]
     
  24. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    Again, it makes little sense. Most exploiters store their gold on vendors for its easy access. Why would they scan for checks stored in houses? I highly doubt that checks had anything to do with the 150 accounts that got banned.
     
  25. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Thats quite a ridiculous statement indeed!!!..

    utter rubbish..

    loads of players will have easy 3-4-500 million or a lot more made quite legit ingame by playing UO ''normally''...and u cant keep that in your bank..indeed with spare armour, regs, etc, etc in the bank i will poss have 30-40 spare bank slots per char....

    total codswallop...............
     
  26. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest


    At the time of the bannings I had a lil over 100mil in checks locked down at my house so I doubt that is what they were looking for.
     
  27. Thats what we all do.

    What makes it a speculation?
    No evidence, of any kind, that a dupe is a dupe.

    If I missed it. I apologize.
     
  28. Ah do you think it can get any safer for dupers?

    The have a nice little way to make pocket change.

    Open a mess of accounts
    Dupe.
    Spread it out.
    Let the other suckers get banned.
    Come back with the "OH THIS IS FROM AN IDOC"


    Embarrassing.

    Rinse and repeat.
     
  29. I can tell you there is no brimstone and fire in the center of the earth, with a devil carrying a pitchfork.

    I have no hard evidence.
     
  30. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    Tsk, tsk, tsk!
     
  31. Besides
    Im saying they cant identify dupes.
    Im not saying they cant figure out dupers or cheaters.

    Also no one knows what items got them in trouble or how it was determined who got the axe.

    What gets you banned. No ne knows.
    Why you got banned. You only vaguely know.
    Where you banned because you were visually eyeballed or tagged with a program. No one knows.


    If they could identify dupes (lets say) then they cant identify who and when the were created. Which is almost as bad.

    The real question is can I buy those runic verite hammers for 15 million and the valorite runic hammers for 25 million now?

    No one knows. I guess if I buy it and burn it.. sure.
    I guess if I buy them and hold them till I get 10 of each. Im crazy.
     
  32. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    I'll answer that for you, and the answer is "no".

    That's not speculation since I know who's selling them.
     
  33. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    First you need to make the distinction between duplicating an item and fraudulently creating an item.

    IF one duplicates an item, then all the attributes of said item will be identical to the original. YES THIS CAN MOST CERTAINLY BE KNOWN and detected.

    IF they in any sense addressed this issue in any way, in the context of can and how, then SHAME ON THEM. They lose two extremely potent deterrents.

    The NOT knowing how so one can design a prevent to the how.
    The IMPLICIT fear that one must be extremely diligent in what one buys.

    Both of the above are fantastic operational cost saving devices.

    IF an item is Fraudulently Created (AKA FORGED), then it totaly depends on how GOOD the forgery is. If the end item is 100% compliant with UO Item Requirements, then I am quite sure it would be MUCH harder to prove this case. The object itself is NOT the evidence in this case and they would need to ... get their hands dirty to prove it was a forgery. BUT it could be done, it would just be more expensive to prove this case.
     
  34. This is why you get to know the shop that's selling the items before you buy. I happen to have a Heartwood Fletcher's runic, a Yew Fletcher's runic, and a Yew runic saw all for sale on one of my vendors right now. The people that have been buying from me for months now continue to buy from me because they know that I obtain everything I put up for sale by myself, and do so while actually sitting in front of my computer playing the game.
     
  35. Stephanus

    Stephanus Guest

    I recently read the Wintermoore thread which included a story of a GM coming in and deleting items from the museum tower because the GM thought they were illegal because they were rare when they weren't illegal at all. This would lead me to believe that EA doesn't know which items are illegal and which aren't unless they've improved their detection since that time and is simply guessing at this point. I could be wrong though.
     
  36. a slave girl

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    Why isn't it possible that EA/Mythic monitored certain accounts for weeks or even months before they actually began banning people?

    That although the banned parties KNOW that the day before or the day of the bannings they had nothing illegal on their accounts (because maybe they heard rumors that bans might be forthcoming and got rid of it?), maybe they actually or conveniently forgot (or never really knew because they trust their UO "friends) that they DID at one time in recent weeks have or do something illegal?

    Such as aiding friends that may dupe (even if they don't know that that friend dupes) or temporarily storing items for them or even by using their vendor house to launder their (duper) friends gps?


    That knowingly or unknowingly they are/were part of the duping ring at some point:

    1. Obtain a rare or hard to get item, (maybe they sold the filled large val bod to the duper for more than a single val hammer is worth, maybe 200 mill which is of course profiting from duping, surprise, surprise!)

    2. Do the dupe, dupe... (Dupe item),

    3. Transfer dupes to other accounts, (sharing a chest in their house or allowing a guildie to use their house to store items temporarily or just holding a backpack for a couple minutes while the friend changes chars?) If that's dupes your storing or holding surprise! your assisting the duper, so maybe you better look in that bag.

    4. Sell dupes at bank or on vendors, (know who you rent vendors to or suffer the consquences!) how easy is it to avoid this one?

    5. Share the dupes with friends or guildies for free or uber cheap, (if it looks to G O O D to be true then it's probably going to be B A D for your account).

    6. Transfer dupes to other shards to maximize profits,

    7. Launder/store the profits.

    I suspect in the case of the banned lady Tina who said her guild shard hops, that a guildie used her house to store dupes temporarily and that got her banned because she said she usually owned the house that her guild operated out of.


    Personally I perfer to think that this last round of bannings was a sting that required weeks or months of investigation before the guilty parties were identified and summarily "executed".

    Of course it might be wise for all those who know for certain that they are totally innocent to compare notes:

    Who is your worst enemy in UO (if you have or had one) and/or your direct competition ingame, be it at vendoring, at gold selling for cash, at pvping, at e-dating (if that's your thing), or whatever else you spend your time doing in UO, because of course EA hires PLAYERS as staff.

    Players are actually the GMs, the designers, etc.

    Maybe your worst enemy(s) ingame got hired on as staff?

    Nah, I think I'll go with EA/Mythic investigated fully and were totally in the right with these bannings.
     
  37. Conrad

    Conrad Guest

    There is a vendor on Pacific that is titled "ATM" and sells checks for exactly the same sum as the value of the checks being sold. No apparent profit involved.

    Can you say "Luigi's Offshore Savings and Expedient Returns"?

    Bank with LOSER!
     
  38. Sheridan

    Sheridan Guest

    Yeahhh... these threads are always rife with unproven speculations passed off as fact and never fail to segue into bickering, trolling, and accusations. We're not going to go for another ride on this merry-go-round for which there is no end. Sorry, folks.
     
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