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Can Someone Explain How the lands are connected?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Apr 30, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I get the shards.

    But on atlantic...
    Where is Fel relative to Tram?
    Where is Tokuno and Malas Related to the Map of Brit?
    And t2a is where?

    I take it they arent on the same globe?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    T2A is underground, but.. how to put this...

    Picture a gemstone like the one in the old UO intro. each one has hundreds of facets around its sides. Each world in UO would be divided up like that.. each land its own seperate realm with sharply defined edges, seperated from the others. You can't walk directly between them.. but using Britannian magic you can simply slip through the center of the gem. Make sense?

    Each one would think it was the one true globe.. and if the inhabitants were to somehow leave, they would see their world as the one they're looking down at from above.. sort of like multiple dimensions or just being out of phase with the others. Remember, until the facet gates were discovered, nobody even knew the others existed.

    To expand things a bit, some of the facets aren't seperate lands, but copies of the other lands that evolved differently.. Illshenar was Tram/Fel originally, as an example, and Trammel and Felucca themselves are obvious examples. Tokuno and Malas, however, were seperate lands divided in the breaking of Mondain's gem. For this you'd need another example. Take the gem again and lay it flat on a table; imagine it has four seperate realms at cardinal direction points (N,S,E,W). Scattered in the facets around each of these points are copies of the cardinal points. Obviously though, this leaves two faces that wouldn't have lands connected to them.. possibly these would end up being a collision of sorts? A land that was half and half, possibly? Or even 4 quarters? This could account for Illshenar. And the back and front would be lit differently, explaining the "bright and cheery protected by light" Tram (Fel is the true cardinal facet, so on that line of thinking there could be more copies out there that are even darker than Fel is now).
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks
    Ill read this a few hundred times to absorb it.
    Then Ill probably have questions.

    I take the shard idea is the shattering of the gem the made little gems with facets.

    TY
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Exactly. Each "Shard" is a Shard of the Gem. Each "Facet" is a Facet on the Shards. If you want it to be even more confusing, each "Shard" somehow has copies of all of the other gem Shards in it. For that, just think of the Futurama episode where there are all the boxes to alternate realities.. if one reality destroyed the box for another, the boxed reality itself would be destroyed (this much is confirmed in the backstory for Siege Perilous, actually).

    Also, you'll have to read my post again anyway, I added more to it a few times there.. lol. Changed this one once or twice, too. I do edits a lot, is just how my mind works. :p

    Just edited the first one again, even. The final paragraph got cut off somehow.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So using the lore.
    We accept we can travel through gates.
    And end up in reflections of the land we left or into total new lands (so to speak) the perhaps evolved geographically in a different way.

    We (minus a transfer token) really cant visit other shards, only our interconnected GEM model of our world (our shard).

    So in theory all these rule sets are actually ok. Some places would allow killing, some would have insurance, some could have a combo of both, some could be full PvP, some could be partial PvP, some could be whatever. Correct?

    Each time we use a moongate, there would be new rules... a new world.

    That is the game logic.

    SO why do we all argue about rulesets. In theory there wouldnt be just one? Its like endless to what the Devs can do. Its like looking into a mirror with a mirror behind you. You see an infinity of reflections. That is what UO is?

    Cool. So we could end up with Tramluca or Felammel. One of these lands could have no insurance and stealing and be like the old days. And no one could argue with me because it actually already exists in the game lore.

    Hmm.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Where is Narnia, Oz and Hogwarts in relation to the USA?
     
  7. So.....













    The world really IS flat..... [​IMG]
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Felucia is Hell
    T2A is the Ghetto
    Tokuno is Asia
    Malas is Europe

    They are all connected together in a wide marketing plan to get subscriptions from all over the world. [​IMG]
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Crysta explaination is more fun. Though the wit is appreciated.
     
  10. That's pretty good, Crysta. But I've always thought that Fel and Tram were a different situation. Trammel was literally created by Nystul under Lord British's direction. If you look at the story that I think is still in the archives here, when he cast the magic, the whole of the lands had an image that ascended up into the sky. What exactly that means is up to interpretation, and I dearly wish this kind of thing played a much more prominent role in UO today. But my thought is that a new image, a new reflection, was created....somewhere.
     
  11. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    It's much easier if you simple consider each facet to be a different dimension, which essentially that IS what they are. Story wise Felucca is the original Britannia, Trammel is a safe dimension Lord British made of the original lands. Ilshenar is a twisted, distorted version of Britannia. Tokuno is the only one that was never properly explained, as the SE Manual only said "Lands from the east" But I just lump it into the whole alternate dimension thing for convenience.
     
  12. Garaba

    Garaba Guest

    Alright let me dig into this rusty filing cabinet of a brain of mine.

    Felucca is the original facet where most of the ultimas take place. It is in a configuration similar to what the world looked like after the destruction of the gem.

    Trammel was created to be a copy Felucca free of Minax's influence. It is a place of refuge and safety, relatively speaking of course.

    Lost lands- And underground area land, think "journey to the center of the earth." Because it is a direct part of Felucca it also exists in trammel.

    Ilshenar- This is a twisted form of what Felucca could of been. Created by them gem, it however has a way diverted history then our world. The current theory is that Zog never existed in Ilshenar's past. Because of that Armageddon was never cast. This theory is popular due to this being the birthplace of the Zog Cabal (aka FoA). The existence of Ilshenar also greatly changed the histories of the shards. Becoming a haven for Exodus, and bringing us the FoA. Changing the events of Ultima 2, 3 and 4. Of course this is allot of conjecture on my part due to the limited information we have about ilshenar.

    Malas- Most likely this is the "Lands of the Dark Unknown" lost after the destruction of the gem of immortality. How it came to be 'lost' where it is now is unknown.

    Tokuno- Most definitely the "Lands of the Feudal Lords" another land lost after the destruction of the gem. The greatest evidence that Tokuno existed before the events of Ultima 1 is the fact the Britannia craftsmen can create a katana, they had to learn it from somewhere.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So.....
    The world really IS flat..... [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually, the best argument that i've see is that it's Toroidal(sp?). That's a donut shape. It's the only way you could sail off the north end of the map and end up in the south, and east side to the west. :p


    As for Trammel.. Nystul used magic yes, and i'm sure he THINKS he created it.. but I somehow can't see the gem suddenly sprouting a new facet. Instead, it's my assertion that Nystul's magic merely LOCATED the new Facet (wether he realized this fact or no), not outright brought it into being.

    Also, I should add for the Lost Lands that the best idea i've seen as to the identity of the area is that it's the sunken continent of Ambrosia, which was destroyed by meteorites in ancient times. This would also explain why the terrain there is so damned uneven.
     
  14. HUMM...and I was naieve enough to think they were on an IBM Blade Center interconnected with a multimode fibre network to the central office.....*wanders off mumbling to self*......
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And who lit its sky?
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Heck if I know. Lets just say "A Wizard did it.".
     
  17. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Felucca is the original facet where most of the ultimas take place. It is in a configuration similar to what the world looked like after the destruction of the gem.

    Trammel was created to be a copy Felucca free of Minax's influence. It is a place of refuge and safety, relatively speaking of course.

    [/ QUOTE ]Don't forget, Trammel and Felucca are oppoisite sides of the "planet" named after which of the two sosarian moons lights it's night sky. Hence "moonstones". When Minax took over Felucca, people escaped to the other side of the world, Trammel. At least that's how I read the stories and explanations behind it.
     
  18. Leanan Sidhe

    Leanan Sidhe Guest

    Great post....I love history...
    And have a couple little questions... please
    Aren't the lost lands from an expedition? *pulls up stool* I wanna hear more....
    I seem to remember a story about discovering a new land...?
    And how does Ish become a "twisted" version of Fel? Does this explain the different "towns / establishments" there?
     
  19. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Great post....I love history...
    And have a couple little questions... please
    Aren't the lost lands from an expedition? *pulls up stool* I wanna hear more....
    I seem to remember a story about discovering a new land...?
    And how does Ish become a "twisted" version of Fel? Does this explain the different "towns / establishments" there?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If you've ever read the backstory for Ilshenar [Which is not on the UO website anymore...], Ilshenar was another dimension of Britannia where someone tried to cast Armageddon, the spell failed and distorted the world.. A new civilization arose making the cities of Mistas, Lakeshire and the ruined one by the chaos shrine [forget the name now] Eventually that civilization fell away and the three towns were empty ruins of a lost time.
    That was the state of Ilshenar when it first opened to UO Players. In that time the Meer and Juka appeared on the scene, Lakeshire was reoccupied by the Meer and Central Ilshenar Opened.
     
  20. Leanan Sidhe

    Leanan Sidhe Guest

    Thank you Dol'Gorath -
    I haven't really looked up Ish's history, but after reading this post I did find some great history after searching for Zog Cabal...
    I never realized that blackrock had been around before, at least in UO history...
    *starts reading again*
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So.....

    If you are playing 2d I would say "Yes!"
    *lol* a joke.. weak I know.











    The world really IS flat..... [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  23. easypeasy ...

    The Ultima Online "universe" is a four dimensional space (not the classic "fourth"d of "time" ...a technical fourth as its at 90o to the first 3 cartesian references of x, y, z )
    Veiwed from a parallel(our reality) 3 dimensional space via a 2D representation(monitor)

    The 2d represntation by the monitor is the key to understanding the actual geometry of the Ultima Online "universe" . It (the monitor) provides a selective "polorization" OF the four dimensional space ... that "appears" flat. Thats why the little ingame "radar map" doesn't "spin" when your avatar turns ... "North" is always upper right hand corner of the monitor ... and running "straight up" the monitor, is actually North west &gt;in the game&lt; ...got it? gooood [​IMG]

    Now ... for a simple "proof" ... try and construct a "working" physical representation of one single area ... the Solen Hives ... [​IMG]

    I'll leave you to your own devices.
     
  24. Leanan Sidhe

    Leanan Sidhe Guest

    Thanks Crysta!
    Now I have something much more interesting to read then my work reports!
    [​IMG]
     
  25. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    The lands aren't really connected by lore anymore.. Its all messed up and makes no sense.. kinda like my math homework.

    Tram and Fel are MOONS of Britannia.. So why can we only go to Tram and Fel, and not Britannia?? (Well, we used to live on Britannia before the days of T2A.. and w/ AoS, all of a sudden, theres Tram and Fel.. no more "Britannia")

    T2A (Lost Lands) Not sure on these... there are paths to the Lost Lands all over "Tram" and "Fel" and the Lost Lands are enclosed by mountains..

    Malas is a big floating continent in the sky..

    Tokuno is a chain of islands.. (would make more sense if you could sail there, and not use the Moongate)

    Ilshenar is kinda like T2A, can only get there via Moongate.. and it truely is a weird place.. robotic Blackthorns and mechanical creatures and all.. *throws up all over Blackthorns Revenge CD*

    Heartwood is a big tree village that can only be reached via teleporter.. not climbing.

    So in conclusion:

    I really would like to go back to Britannia, Im tired of being stuck on the Moons..

    I really wish Tram and Fel weren't carbon copies of eachother.. (throw in a dash of salt, some minced foilage, and call them COMPLETELY different worlds right?? If you can make Haven and Ocllo different, DO IT WITH THE REST OF THE MAP.)

    I really wish EA didn't buy Origin. (haha yea.. SMART move.. lets make a bid to buy Rockstar right before GTA4 releases.. Are you serious EA? NO ONE in their right mind would sell Rockstar before a GTA game releases)

    One plus One equals Negative Fun!
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    From what I can make out, T2A tends to jive closest with the Serpent Isle (though with a bit of change to the cities themselves, so maybe Serpent Isle long before the dissidents found it).
     
  27. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>


    Tram and Fel are MOONS of Britannia.. So why can we only go to Tram and Fel, and not Britannia?? (Well, we used to live on Britannia before the days of T2A.. and w/ AoS, all of a sudden, theres Tram and Fel.. no more "Britannia")

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's still Britannia. It's just that Britannia has a mirrored version now, instead of saying "Britannia" (which can mean either world) they've been nick-named Trammel or Felucca.

    A lot of the times when people mention Britannia they are referring to Tram or both.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Tokuno is a chain of islands.. (would make more sense if you could sail there, and not use the Moongate)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not really, because we've already explored Britannia. Given that there are gargoyles, the "otherside of the world" is where the Gargoyle's come from. The other lands of ancient Sosaria vanished.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Ilshenar is kinda like T2A, can only get there via Moongate.. and it truely is a weird place.. robotic Blackthorns and mechanical creatures and all.. *throws up all over Blackthorns Revenge CD*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What's weird about it? In Ultima III: Exodus, Exodus "itself" was a very strange and mechanical-like creature/thing.

    Also those creatures are not native to Ilshenar, Blackthorn took them there with him.

    <blockquote><hr>


    I really would like to go back to Britannia, Im tired of being stuck on the Moons..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We aren't physically on the moons, it's just a nickname.

    <blockquote><hr>


    I really wish Tram and Fel weren't carbon copies of eachother.. (throw in a dash of salt, some minced foilage, and call them COMPLETELY different worlds right?? If you can make Haven and Ocllo different, DO IT WITH THE REST OF THE MAP.)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's not meant to be different. It was to allow people the same content with a different PVP mechanic.

    [qupte]
    I really wish EA didn't buy Origin. (haha yea.. SMART move.. lets make a bid to buy Rockstar right before GTA4 releases.. Are you serious EA? NO ONE in their right mind would sell Rockstar before a GTA game releases)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    EA bought out Origin a long time before Ultima Online. If it weren't for EA, UO wouldn't exist. Richard Garriott and his team were spending money out of their own pocket just to convince EA it was viable, luckily they did.
     
  28. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    I meant "Lore" not the "actuality" reason the lands were added/way they are. [​IMG]

    Nicknamed Tram and Fel? Those have always been the names of the Moons of Britannia, since the days of using a spyglass to travel via moongate (Thus there should be THREE areas of land. Tram, Fel, and Britannia, in the "classic" world)

    Oh and how can you peer through a spyglass and see Fel if your already standing on it?

    Whats weird about MACHINES in a medieval setting? Ill leave that one to you..

    If were not physically on the moons, then where are we? Were not on Britannia, because then it would be an option in the moongate menu..

    Tram and Fel ARE supposed to be different, as was intended in the relase of AoS. But you know how it is, remove the leaves and call them different places.
     
  29. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Governor Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    Apparently, you don't know that if you look through a spyglass or the telescope at Moonglow, you can SEE Trammel &amp; Felucca (the moons).

    Quit being intentionally obtuse.....
     
  30. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    Each "Shard" is a shard of the gem of immortality that was shattered by the stranger.

    The Lost Lands were found during the early years, the entrances broken open by the failed attempts of the FOA to cast Armageddon. The origin of the FoA was never really discerned, though we have hints.

    Felucca is/was a "facet" of each of these shards. Nystul and Lord British found that the facet Trammel was un-populated, and forged links to the new lands, initially through moonstones and eventually through moongates. It has been speculated that Trammel was a mirror copy of Felucca at the moment in time that the moongate was first opened, perhaps in the same way the Shadow/Timelords recently opened up a moment in time in Moonglow.

    Of course, one of the reasons they looked for the facet was for Lord British to give his people a way to escape Minax and the destructive factions that developed to cut Britannia into pieces. (One might suggest he was running from them, as many have.)

    Once they had found this property of the shards, they commenced looking for other facets, the first of which was Ilshenar. Ilshenar's origin is still up for debate, but evidence would suggest that perhaps the FoA came to Felucca FROM Ilshenar -- where it appears Armageddon may have been partially cast at some far past time. It is likely that in this facet Lord British was killed during those battles and thus the entire land fell to ruin.

    Next found was Malas. This facet was even more different than the others, seemingly the result if Armageddon had actually been cast. Filled with Necromancers and Paladins, it opened a new chapter in the shards. Eventually it was linked into the moongate network as well as Ilshenar.

    Finally, the Tokuno Islands were rediscovered -- in Trammel. The Feluccans never searched for the Islands in their facet, or perhaps the people there don't wish to involve themselves in the political squabbles of the factions and thus keep themselves hidden. The peoples of Tokuno have a distinct civilization and their own abilities and powers, and the Empress ensures they stay that way.

    Oops, I suppose I shouldn't forget the elves. They were rediscovered fairly recently, with various entrances to their hidden realm appearing through Britannia. The World Tree seems interconnected with Trammel AND Felucca, leading us to believe that there are elves also in Malas and Ilshenar.

    With Lord British moving on to other worlds and Lord Blackthorn effectively dead, there has been no real governance for many years. As a consequence, the world has been slowly dissolving from the inside as people have no real leaders to look to in order to take them forward.

    One begins to wonder if another Stranger will appear to help us pick a path?
     
  31. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>


    Nicknamed Tram and Fel? Those have always been the names of the Moons of Britannia, since the days of using a spyglass to travel via moongate (Thus there should be THREE areas of land. Tram, Fel, and Britannia, in the "classic" world)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes they ahve been the names of the moons. THey were used to name the two "worlds" of Britannia to differentiate them.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Oh and how can you peer through a spyglass and see Fel if your already standing on it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    When you're peering at Felucca through a spyglass, you are looking at the moon, not the Felucca facet of Britannia.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Whats weird about MACHINES in a medieval setting? Ill leave that one to you..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nothing is weird. Our own medieval history was full of fancy technology (including machines).

    Remember, the "techno" elements introduced in Lord Blackthorn's Revenge were created by both Richard Garriott and Starr Long. There is nothing "non-Ultima" about them. Just like the Meer were from Britannia's past, the Juka and techno elements are its future.

    <blockquote><hr>


    If were not physically on the moons, then where are we? Were not on Britannia, because then it would be an option in the moongate menu..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We aren't on the moons. We are IN Britannia. Britannia has a parralel Britannia where there is no murdering amongst its peoples and no factions trying to control its cities.

    It could easily be listed as Britannia in the moongate menu, then it'd have two "sub" Britannias. Do you wish to travel to the Britannia where murder is ripe, or the Britannia where there is no murder?

    <blockquote><hr>


    Tram and Fel ARE supposed to be different, as was intended in the relase of AoS. But you know how it is, remove the leaves and call them different places.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hence why Tram and Fel was a good short term solution to murdering, but not a very logical or well planned long-term solution.