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Can someone explain reforging in simple terms

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by Pirate Roberts, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. Pirate Roberts

    Stratics Veteran (LooT)

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    I'm but a lowly pyrate, used to the thrill of plundering and nefarious ways. When it comes to craftung I'm a simpleton.
     
  2. Percivalgoh

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    Whenever somone explains it to you please explain it to me. Clearly a pirate is more suited to understnading the nefarious calculations required for this. The only info I have found is here
     
  3. Lord Thor

    Lord Thor Guest

    Yea same here just came back to the game and trainied imbuing last week. I was just starting to get my head wrapped around it then they drop this on me this week. haha
     
  4. Percivalgoh

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    Right off the bat I made a 150 luck leather tunic which I enhanced to 190 then I tried to make gloves and cap but it only made 100 luck items. I couldn't figure out what settings I had used only that it had one name and used 7 charges on a spined runic. Maybe I was lucky ........wait I didn't have the 190 luck tunic till after.....it's too much for my mind. Guess I will keep plugging away and see if I can figure it out.
     
  5. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Right now, for my own use, I'm not using either power set that creates brittle/cannot be repaired.

    The good properties come from using runics capable of both prefixes, and using both prefixes.

    So far, I've made 2 items - one experimenting with a bronze hammer (to get where I can merge it with 2 others at 100 charges), and one with an agapite hammer.

    The Agapite Hammer one turned out really nice, with Hit Fatigue 40%.
     
  6. Percivalgoh

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    Ok so I think I figuired out the settings I used
    I clicked on
    powerful reforging
    then
    fundamental reforging
    then
    integral reforging
    then grand artifice
    then
    inspired artifice
    then
    exalted artifice
    chose the fortified of fortune name

    I used reforged spined runics trying to make a luck suit
    enhanced with spined the parts I made had.
    leather tunic 190 luck
    leather cap 190 luck
    leather gloves 180 luck

    I burned through a lot of runics (about 10) but hey they are just spined runics which I made from recent BOD I looted. Using these settings the parts can't be repaired or POFed but have 150 to 200 durability.

    Anyway just some info .....someone else can try to figure out if it could be done better
     
  7. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    LMAO ^^^^^ What a great way to end the day! Thx for the "info", I think....

    :thumbsup:
     
  8. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    And then, of course, I scrolled back up and find this ^^^^ . So now I'm really rollin' on the floor with an amazed laughter.... Thanks for the super howto detail..... Hey, you rock Percivalgoh

    :thumbsup:
     
  9. MYUO

    MYUO Guest


    I am trying to make 190 luck armors through reforging+imbuing+enhancing. Without imbuing, the 190 luck armors are too weak to be effective for my chars. The problem is after imbuing, the failure rate for enhancing is so high that I destroy all the items, even with a 120 smith and 60ASH, or a 120 tailor.

    I am wondering if it is possible to use high level runics to reforge 150 luck armors + good mods so I can enhance it straight either using the metal forged tool bought from EA store or bite the bullet and hope one piece makes it.
     
  10. Percivalgoh

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    One of the confusing things about reforging is that if you click once you select click it again and you unselect so pay attention to what is allready selected when you do whatever. Obviously I never made it to test to try it out. I glad you like my sense of humor but seriously I don't know what I am doing
    :dunce:
     
  11. Percivalgoh

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    As far as enhancing goes if I am doing something I really want I use the forged metal tool at $1 a charge or whatever from EA. I bought 6 so far.
     
  12. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    You know more about what you're doing than many I've seen post... and I certainly agree with using the forged metal tool for enhancement... Well worth the investment, IMO...

    :thumbsup:
     
  13. Xexamedes

    Xexamedes Guest

    if I use a barbed runic rather than a spined when crafting 2 selected mods (grand artifice), would I get extra mods beyond the selected ones, or just greater intensities?
     
  14. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I believe the number of powers is as if you used the runic to craft normally.
     
  15. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I have yet to see something I'd want to do through reforging that would make me want to do it instead of just imbuing outright.

    At some point when I have an hour or so free, I'll mess around on TC with it, but when you reforge an item, it is still taking up the intensity of the item, meaning that anything else you imbue will be reduced. Maybe as a way to get around using ingredients, I guess?

    Just need to get on TC to play around.
     
  16. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    The main (perhaps only) advantage to reforging is to make a prefix/suffix item that has properties that only currently come on artifacts and Shame/Wrong loot.

    If you do that without adding in the brittle/cannot be repaired steps, you get something that can then be imbued and enhanced to something better.
     
  17. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    I have done quite a bit testing both on TC and chessy with different levels of runics. Here is my take:
    1) There are chances that runic gives less than the assigned number of mods because of it rolled on the same mod two or more times. I have seen items reforged by valorite hammer only had 2-3 mods. This used to happen in normal runic crafting.

    2) I haven't found a way to use barbed kit or val/ver hammer for adding "armor of fortune".

    3) Enhancing has very high failure rates even with +60ASH.

    4) Reforged items has no "curse" neg but have less intensities than legendary/major artifacts from Shame. The items reforged without brittle/can not repair neg have even lower mod intensities.
     
  18. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Unless it's something I don't care to lose, I don't enhance without a Forged Metal of Artifacts.
     
  19. Ender76

    Ender76 Journeyman
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    You can exceed normal caps on items but the only real use to me is to add "non-imbueable" qualities.

    I would only use reforging for 1) shields, 2) luck armor or 3) casting focus armor. For weapons, I think it's pretty useless unless there's a way of adding splintering weapon (beats me if it exists).
     
  20. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Just a note for everyone who doesn't know, 150 luck enhancing for the +40 luck without the forged thing is a 100% failure rate every time. There is a thread somewhere on stratics showing the math which I don't have the link to but it's 100% fail.
     
  21. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    I enhanced a few metal pieces without the forged metal artifact to 190 luck using 60ASH. For leather pieces, I may have enhanced one or two on TC but all made on Chessy were destroyed!
     
  22. Irulia Darkaith

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    Am I missing something subtle? It won't let me select Fortified of Fortune unless I also choose Sublime to give me a prefix and a suffix. So I chose that, but after I do all the reforging listed above I get fortified leather sleeves of fortune with 100 luck. I can't imbue above 100 luck, so there is no point enhancing to get 140 luck as I already have 150 luck items from Shame. And from what I have read even if you get to 150 luck, there is no way you can successfully enhance beyond that. Seems Test Centre is down right now so I don't want to keep burning real charges to try and achieve this result. Please clarify and tell me what I'm doing wrong.
     
  23. Percivalgoh

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    I used all the selections I menitoned so I am not sure if you can get by with less. To make the three items I made I burned about 10 spined runics the rest of the items had mostly 100 luck. If you have 150 luck items from Shame they can be enhanced to 190 but I would advise you use the forge metal tool. I have some as well but not the head, tunic and gloves. For some reason I was not lucky enough to get the 150 luck on the gloves and burned most of the runic charges on that item. Best I could do is 140 then enhance to 180 on the gloves. I am not sure if you need to select all the settings I selected. Someone else will need to figure that out. I am not sure if 150 is the highest you can get with the fortified of fortune setting.
     
  24. Irulia Darkaith

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    Okay, so I simply misunderstood how reforging worked. I thought it took most of the "luck" out of it (like imbuing) and you were actually consistently making 140-150 luck items. I tried four times and made 100 luck items each time. Now I understand the part about you burning all those spined kits. Guess I was lucky and got most of my 150 luck items out of shame before they nerfed the loot.
     
  25. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Luck 150 items should be near impossible to enhance with more luck for smiths, impossible for other crafts, without using the forged metal tool.

    The following calculations ASSUME that the bonus for skill is applied TO EACH CHECK, not to the final result.

    This difference between these are as follows:
    If applied in each step, this makes some success chances that would normally fail at GM or lower skill have a small chance of success, and increase the chances of all others (as each would have up to a +2% (tailor) or +8% (smith) bonus).
    If applied at the end, it would be as a multiplier, not as an added bonus, and would result in multiplying by zero (0 * 1.08 = 0). This would make enhancing at 140 or higher luck impossible for all skills.

    The TOR & Stratics Calculators appear to reflect the "Each Step" calculation, as do claims of success from TC.


    The formula given for chance to enhance Luck (by itself)

    30 + (current luck/2, truncated) - ((Skill-100)/10, truncated) = failure chance

    So even with 120 smith & +60 ASH, the chance for enhancing a 150 luck smith item is

    30+(150/2)-(80/10) = 30+75-8 = 105-8 = 97% failure chance (3% success) - and that's just for the LUCK check. You still have to factor in the other modifiers that gold gives.

    For a 120 tailor, you have less a 2% Success chance to enhance a 140 luck piece (as you have to factor in the physical resist failure chance), and no chance to enhance a 150 luck piece.

    Carpenters, tinkers and Bowyers* can't luck-enhance items that are 140 luck (0% at 140, 1% at 139 for the luck check, before any other checks for resists or other modified properties that count)

    * There's no information if the ability to craft 120 luck items for ranged attacks included a tweak to success chances for them; it probably did not, since they were still enhance-capable at that level.



    Earlier discussions got a little confused. 3% is so small that, when you factor in the OTHER modifications that gold or makes, it approaches 0.

    Remember that the information given by the Devs said that there were truncation functions in play, but it wasn't said (as far as I know) whether it was only the intermediate steps, or including the final result, that gets truncated. For those not familiar with computer or math terminology, truncating is where you DROP any decimal places, be they .0001 or .9999 (as opposed to rounding, where everything from 0.5 up results in "rounding up" to the next highest non-decimal number).



    For each resist changed, the failure chance = 20%+current resist.
    Lower Requirements introduces a 20% chance of failure if the property is added, (20%+current value) if already present.

    So at 150 Luck, assuming a normal weapon & 180 skill, enhance chance is 3% * 88% (the chance of LR success chance) = 2.64%, and that's only if decimals are left in the final step.
    If the final results are TRUNC-functioned like the success/failure calculations, it's only a 2% chance.

    For Armor, it gets more complicated, as there's a dozen or so different values for metal resists on a NORMAL piece (depending on the item), let alone when working on an exceptional piece with 20 randomly assigned exceptional resists.
    However, 4 resist properties get changed by gold. If you assume 3% per property base for normal human items, 6% for normal gargoyle items, 7% for exceptional human items, 10% for exceptional Gargoyle (with no runic, imbued or reforged resists), you get...

    Normal human armor (assuming 3% resist base for all 4): 2.64% (as weapon) * 85%^4 = 2.64% * 52.2% = 1.378%
    The same piece, with all 4 resists imbued to 18: 2.64% * 70%^4 = 2.64% * 24.01% = 0.634%

    Calculations beyond this for the other metal armors, therefore, aren't even necessary. Either they will be 1%, or 0%, when truncated. Neither is a chance I'd take. If you really must know, if all 4 resists that gold changes, before enhancing, total more than 36, it's probably going to drop final success below 1% and become a 100% failure chance when truncated.


    For Tailor items, enhancing a 140 Luck item also changes the Physical resist.

    2% chance of luck enhance success if 120 Tailor.
    80% if base physical for leather (2; 80%-2%+2%)
    =1.60%
    Truthfully, any realistic value for physical will end up between 1.2% & 1.6% (22% is maximum for non-magical human/elf armor, 28% for runic-crafted, with ALL the exceptional bonus going into physical - which is obscenely unrealistic.) 22% resist = 60% chance of success for the physical enhance alone, or 1.2% when the 140 luck enhance factored in.
     
  26. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    So since we are kinda on the topic of Luck armor here, anyone have any input on the best way to create a base leather piece with just the 150 luck mod? I can't choose "of fortune" with a barbed kit, and doing it with spined seems to never make anything but a 100 luck item. I am not interested in making items that are brittle or cannot be repaired. Any insight on this would be appreciated!
     
  27. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Thank you Basara for the detailed explaination. So for leather, studded or bone armors with 150 luck, the chance to fail for enhancing with spined leather is 30+(150/2)-(120-100)/10=103% or no chance to succeed. This is like having a monster in game that can't be killed except using a cash bought item. That is not right.

    Another question: how comes items crafted by high end runics with a prefix and/or suffix name but there is no added mods on the item - an item with an "empty" name.

    If I understand correctly, when Grand Artifice is selected, the number and intensity of assigned runic properties (e.g. 5 mods with 85-100% intensity) do not apply anymore. That is why I got item crafted by valorite runic hammer with lower than 85% intensities and fewer than 5 mods.
     
  28. Percivalgoh

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    The way I see it the options are 1) go kill a bunch of monsters and hope to get a good luck piece which was much easier a little while ago, 2) craft armor using spined runics till you get lucky and get the peice you want 3) make stuff with high end runics which should be abundantly available to everyone by now till you get pieces you want to imbue/enhance not sure if you can actually get high enough luck pieces that way, All of these will require that you use the metal forge tool 4) buy from another player
     
  29. Irulia Darkaith

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    Couldn't agree more.
     
  30. Celestial Knight

    Celestial Knight Adventurer

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    ok I am also Lord Sir Forge if ye do not remeber the name its okay lol.anyways kits can now be combined up too 100 charges :) more extra lock down space .I used Horned kits and made plenty of 150 luck pieces >Thats all i am gonna say Good luck.
     
  31. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Another gripe about reforging is that no matter how high the durability of the original item is, Structural Reforging will always bring it down to 35 and the following Fortified reforging will raise it to 45. It uses one charge of runic tool and is supposed to do what is advertised: "causes the item to have more magical power, but the item will be Brittle ", not cutting the durability of my original item.
     
  32. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    This is why I refuse to use that branch of reforging - why should I pay MORE charges to get an item that can't be repaired or enhanced? Structural & Fortified should REDUCE the final cost, as they exist to make an item a throw-away piece of gear, not a permanent one.
     
  33. Percivalgoh

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    Is that 150 prior to enhancing or special materials?
     
  34. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    What do you mean by this? Has Shame loot changed again since Publish 73? I know that Publish 73.2 mentioned:
    but nothing regarding luck properties for Shame loot...


    :bored:
     
  35. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    yes
     
  36. Percivalgoh

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    LOL well that's great now I have a reason to fill my horned runic bods
     
  37. Gilmour

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    As i read it you cannot reforge items that is of exotic material or imbued, is this correct?
     
  38. Percivalgoh

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    It seems so. Any kind of magical property and you can't reforge it but.......there may be exceptions......or not
     
  39. Gilmour

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    ok, i was waiting with investigating this till there was more certainty and knowledge surrounding the facts of reforging, just after publish there's usually alot of "i think", and "supposedly" flying around.

    I can see how it can be used to create ever increasing luck suits tho, did anyone break 3k unbuffed yet?

    Thanks for response :)
     
  40. Irulia Darkaith

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    There's a thread on one of the Uhall forum,

    http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/260175-they-nerf-shame-loot-so-peeps-will-re-forge.html


    they're looking into an unintended nerf that was done on Shame loot. And yes, I used to get a lot of 150 luck items and haven't got a single one since that publish.

    Best Luck item

    Arcane Ringmail Gloves of Fortune
    Cannot Be Repaired
    Brittle
    Casting Focus 2%
    Intelligence Bonus 2
    Mana Increase 10
    Mana Regen 3
    Luck 150
    LMC 8%
    LRC 20%
    Mage Armor

    Good luck reforging that! and yeah, brittle & can't be repaired isn't great, but my tamer wears them so they should last a good long time.
     
  41. lit2fly

    lit2fly Guest

    very nice piece of equipment, i think only tamer or bard has the luxury to wear such piece of armor
     
  42. Celestial Knight

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    First make the item normal with tinker made tools away from ur soulforge
    then useing what kit u wish (i used Horned kit with 100 charges)near the soulforge i was able to nitout allmost 87 out of 100 charges of 150 luck items
    then useing forged metal of artifacts and spine leather to get 190 luck>u can also if u wish before you hit it with spine imbue up to weight max then hit it with spine to make a fine suit > luck normal with all 70s,100 lrc,useing the 10th ann statue brings it up to i think 3060 luck on my legendary tamer.
    Hope this helps Good luck
     
  43. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Hey Celestial Knight: I've burned thru 40 charges on my Horned kit and got nothing more than 100 luck. What am I missing?

    :wall:
     
  44. Celestial Knight

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    Hmm
    Lets see if it is skill rated(ok)My skill's>Arms Lore 100,Blacksmith 120,
    Imbuing 120,Item Identif 100,Magery 100,mining 100 and tailor 120.
    Make normal item useing only normal tools away from soulforge >
    move to the soulforge when item is made and set reward tool at Powerfull reforgeing and grand artifice<okay thats it only thing i did to get 150 with useing horned kits.;)