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[Blacksmithing] can someone for the life of me explain this?

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by [JD], Jul 23, 2010.

  1. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    how are people claiming to get "30-35" fire resist on exceptional runic red dragon armor?

    out of literally 1700 red dragon scales these are the BEST sleeves i was able to smith. used ancient hammer+dc hammer on garg smith, 111 smith:

    exceptional
    phys 4
    fire 29
    poison 7
    energy 5
    dur 90

    NOTICE no cold. i am assuming that means cold 0%? which should be a good thing... i can imbue cold 18 on these.

    note: also tried shadow and bronze runic. NOTHING crafted over 29 fire resist. how do you break the 30+ barrier?!

    help ;o my sampire thanks you
     
  2. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I would suspect they are making them with regular scales and enhancing after. Any idea what the base resists are for normal and for red?
     
  3. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    base resists are 3-3-3-3-3, dont remember where i saw that, or what scale you would craft with to get base.

    red drag scales are 0-10-(-3)-0-0

    so when crafting a red dragon armor piece it would be 3-13-0-3-3, plus 20 pts for gm arms lore

    im not sure if enhancing would be able to top 29. im envisioning creating a piece, maybe imbuing fire to 19, but then enhance still only goes to 29...

    anyone done this and knows?
     
  4. Percivalgoh

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    I don't think you can enhance dragon scale armor. If you can do it what is the process?
     
  5. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    All dragon scales are special materials. There is no base material.

    -Lorax
     
  6. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    OK, how this type of resist occurs....

    Runic Bonus for Exceptional, at GM Arms lore: 11 (14 on Siege Perilous & Mugen)
    Max Fire Resist from Runic: 15
    Base Fire resist for red scale dragon armor: 13

    This means that if one gets a combined amount of 17-26 of the Exceptional / Runic property combined, it will be 30+

    Valorite runic is a base 85% minimum for runic properties. This gives 13 resist in fire, if the property is rolled.

    That means, of course, that a Valorite runic-made red dragon armor piece will have 26, 27 or 28 Fire resist BEFORE one adds in any bonus to fire resist from exceptional quality. Scale the bottom end of that range down appropriately, for lesser runics, but retaining the 28 resist max.

    Assuming that the bonus falls 2/2/2/2/2 (and 1 more in one of the 5 resists), and AVERAGE fire resist for a Red Dragon Armor piece with Fire resist as a runic property will be 29.

    Theoretically, if all of the exceptional bonus fell in Fire Resist (not bloody likely), and max fire resist was rolled, it could be as much as 39% fire resist (42% on SP/Mugen). For a non-runic piece, the average would be 17, with a theoretical (all 20 EX points in fire) being 33 (36% on SP/Mugen).
     
  7. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Potential 39 fire resist is crazy basara, thank you for the break down. I'm still trying to understand this runic stuff.

    So you mentioned valorite runic can craft it, but can other less expensive/rare hammers craft it at 30+ fire? If so which ones? And in using a lower hammer (if possible) does it make it harder for the rng to give me the results I need?
     
  8. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    ANY runic hammer can craft it at 30% or more fire - you just got to get lucky with the runic intensity AND have a lot of the Exceptional bonus go into Fire Resist.

    For example, a runic hammer with a minimum intensity of 50% can give 8%-15% resist bonus as a property averaging 11.5%, and therefore you'd get a minmum of 21%, and expect 24 or 25 as an average, if Fire Resist was a property - before adding in the exceptional random bonuses. It would still have the potential for being 28 from the runic property, and the same theoretical max of 39; only the minimum of the potential range would change.
     
  9. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    do they all have different intensities? is there a list of the intensities somewhere? and what does the 50% mean?

    i like the dc because its cheap, plus i dont need to worry too much about other mods messing up the armor piece. but if a higher intensity hammer would be better, giving more chance and amount of fire resist, that might be worth considering. the extra mods i might get might be in the useful dept too.

    thanks- just dipping my toes in the runic system
     
  10. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30375

    There is a some statistical chance of getting 40% on items with a dull copper, but sometimes you also get 100%. With the higher runic the window moves past the lower probabilities so for a valorite the minimum is 85%. I doubt that each chance is of equal probability unless the developers figured something out to improve the random number generator function.

    My opinion is the dull copper would be better because anything less than close to maximum percentage chance you will unravel or sell anyway. I'm unsure whether the likelyhood of the chance between 40 and 85% compared with 50 hits would be better compared with the 85-100% at 15 hits. You have a task though to get all the basic blacksmithy chances to fall on the fire plus a runic to land on the fire resist. If you use a valorite hammer then you have five chances with one hit to land on fire, but you still are plagued by the arms lore and exceptional bonus chances with only 15 hits per hammer. This is a tall order.

    My opinion is based on gut feel relative to 50 hits versus 15 hits and a little experience crossing my fingers and moving to various spaces or locations while crafting. However 5 chances times 15 hits is 75 chances to land on fire, while the dull copper only has 50. So my opinion probably isn't supported by the math. Pricewise though you could burn hundreds of DC hammers for the value of the valorite.

    -Lorax
     
  11. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    ok the puzzle pieces are starting to fit together better now, but i still dont have a completed picture

    i went on test and tested using dc, copper, shadow, and verite runic hammers

    using verite runic hammer and 1000 red dragon scales i was able to get 2 pieces of 32 fire resist red dragon armor.

    using shadow and around 1200 scales i got 1 piece of 32 fire resist dragon armor.

    using 5000+ dull copper i never exceeded 29 fire resist. thunderz also performed a similar test and also never got above 29 on dull copper.

    i tested using copper hammer and 1000ish scales and oddly enough did not get any higher than 29 either.

    so if the way it works is that the gm arms lore resist pts, plus the runic bonuses are all focused on fire, bad RNG rolls are probably responsible for no higher than 29 being on the copper runic hammer.

    yet - the dull copper hammer says it can have 1 or 2 mods..... more RNG badness? so bad that out of 10,000 scales we didn't get a single one? given that shadow runics are around the same price.... i'd go shadow over dull copper trying to craft these.

    also, what struck me as most odd are the #s i'm seeing. i only got 29 or 32. never a 30, 31, or higher than 32.
     
  12. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Fun experiment. So Bronze would give the most chances per hammer at 105 well maybe gold if you always get four properties since that would give 120. The difficult part for me is understanding where the probability distribution function is centered or what it looks like to make a good guess on whether you would need a hammer with a narrower range and higher from the low 40%.

    From your data it sounds like the dull copper hammer may have a center that is too low like maybe the mean is 70% 0.5(100-40)+40. Then if you can shift it up with a different hammer like gold maybe that mean is 80%.

    I guess the best hammer would be the one that is most likely to give the highest number of applied fire resist property success chances with the highest mean pdf. Maybe the bronze or gold hammer is the right choice pricewise and my first guess was way wrong.

    -Lorax
     
  13. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Theres actually an old bug with runic intensities ... and I suppose it hasnt been fixed yet. *g*
    The intensity roll on an item is always made of 1-100%. If the rolled value would give an itensity below the minimum of the used runic the minimum is apllied. If you head for max intensity on a single property, your chance is not different between using a valo or dc runic.
    Another problem with using higher runics could become unwanted properties. Imagine your pain, if you hit max fire resists and get 2 or 3 properties that are of no use to you.
     
  14. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    You don't exactly need Dragon Armor for high Fire Resist. I recently made my Necro/Swordsman a Bone Armor Set that is just godly. First, i made exceptional Barbed Bone Armor pieces with my craftsman that has GM Armslore. Then i imbued LMC 8%/LRC 20%/MR 1 and Resists onto each piece. I then crafted a Shadow Ruby Bracelet and Shadow Ruby Ring, and imbued both with 15% HCI/15% DCI/1 FC/3 FCR.
    Combined with a Jackal's Collar and a Wooden Shield with 13% HCI/13% DCI/FC 1/HPR 2/40 Luck, his entire suit gives him 45% HCI/45% DCI/40% LMC/100% LRC/3 FC/6 FCR and the Resists are 70/70/68/70/75, even in Vampire Form.
     
  15. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    The new Bane warriors wear normal dragon scale armor. Sure would have been nice for the developers to allow them to be enhanced.

    -Lorax
     
  16. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    As another aside, I was making spined armor pieces to fill BODs/train a BOD runner a couple nights ago.

    So, those exceptional pieces would have 15 total resists, +20 more from GM arms lore (normal), +5 specifically added to Physical from the material.

    One would expect, on average, that you'd get +9 physical, over and above the base for the armor (2) for an average of 11 - yet I got a LOT of 8 physical resist pieces (only 1 of 20 points into physical) - several times more than what one would expect from a "fair" distribution, from about two hundred exceptional items - and only three items in the 20-22 range (which would be 13-15 from the exceptional bonus falling into physical). Of course, there were a lot of 7 resist "normal" items, but I'd not kept track of them (since, without the Ex/lore bonus, they were all identical to each other). I don't THINK that I got any with 0 in physical for an exceptional piece, though.
     
  17. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    I'm still collecting data, but I don't think the distribution is fair between any given resist intensity percentage. It looks like it is starting to take on a bell, but still way to early to tell as I have only put 250 items crafted into the spreadsheet. It kind of looks like the median could center on between 70-80, but it also has a double hump right now. One note is that the first day I did this it had a rectangle window, but after multiple days the shape has changed.

    I'll post my procedure in the crafter data chest when I finish as well as probability of each property. I am doing shadow hammer first then I will do bronze, agapite, and valorite. I will see how each hammers distribution varies.

    If anyone wants to help let me know and I will post the procedure early before the data is complete and then update with the data.

    -Lorax
     

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