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Can stealing be fixed so that it doesn't try to take insured items?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by HP_Zoro_HP, Apr 21, 2013.

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  1. HP_Zoro_HP

    HP_Zoro_HP Seasoned Veteran

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    Have not tested it with blessed items but with insured items for some reason it attempts to take them and i'm not sure why tbh since there's no chance regardless of skill to steal an insured or blessed item? I'm refering to when you click the stealing skill and then click a player or their life bar (to random steal). Why it tries to randomly steal insured items though I don't know.
     
    #1 HP_Zoro_HP, Apr 21, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  2. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Totally agree
     
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  3. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    It would be cool if you could steal insured items.
     
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  4. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Agreed.

    Also Stealing Range should also be increased by 1 tile (2 tile range) some of the newly added refinements spawn in containers you can't get close enough to reach them, thus it's not steal-able.
     
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  5. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    There needs to be a stealing expansion make it worth having in fel again..for stealing from players maybe steal gold per steal or a successful steal gets a replica with 50/50 durability with brittle ..that'd be cool haha

    Insured items in pack give 2x gold per steal so if worth 600 you steal 1200 gold from their bank
     
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  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yes, absolutely yes.
     
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  7. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    No NO no , there is an option its called target stealing, Take the time to actually ark your target with snooping as stealing is supposed to be. If you steal a wallet an its empty, serves you right LoL. If you blind steal that is the chance you take, no adjustment needed. And to Cazador - sorry but your idea about replicas is a joke I hope that is what the haha is for if not then I am laughing at you not with you.
     
  8. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    You must be stealing then at random , run up use steal macro and try for something, best way get snooping , stealth up open backpack, walk few tiles away, set uoa macro's for the items you want, then stealth back up hit macro take item , run hide, rinse and repeat..Works awesome that way.. I have not tested it for powerscrolls but later today I will try to set macro up for item type for them .
     
  9. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Snoop the person, use item ID on the item you want to steal, then run off some where you cant be seen. Come running back and hit the steal macro and just when you get next to your target person hit the Target last Item macro so you steal the item when running past. I always get away when its done that way, by the time the target person has noticed either the message saying i stole from them or they notice its gone from there back pack im a good 10 tiles away, Smoke bomb and gone...
     
  10. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    i read this as ''could we get this fixed caused it keeps screwing up my script''.

    sorry for being a cynic.
     
  11. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    People run thief scripts? To steal all 10 bandages..? HACKERS!
     
  12. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    That sounds like it could be abused way too easily... If scripted - it could be as bad as duping gold.
     
  13. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Replicas was more of a joke..the gold I was saying you steal from one to you..one loses gold one gains maybe at a 5% house fee if anything it'll take gold out of this extremely inflated economy because of the dupers..insurance needs a good looking at too..way to cheap in today's economy
     
  14. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Sorry - the way I read your post - it looked like you had it set up to where one player with two account stealing the gold back and forth could endlessly increase it. I'm all for major gold-sinks.
     
  15. HP_Zoro_HP

    HP_Zoro_HP Seasoned Veteran

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    im simply just saying I mean since stealing worked years ago before all of this insured crap into place stealing randomly wasnt that bad. Now when you steal randomly it wants to take insured items and it shoudln't be that way. It should ignore all insured items... Ive never had it try to take an item thats blessed. Ive just been noticing that it tries to take insured items. That should have been fixed when the "Insurance" system was put into place. A thief shoudln't be forced to having snooping just for stealing to work correctly... Thats almost like saying "In order to patch up the problem with a bandaid you must have snooping". If players were forced to snoop before steal then "random stealing" woudln't work at all now would it?
     
    #15 HP_Zoro_HP, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  16. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Snooping is like tactics for warriors, or eval int for mages: you need the second skill.
     
  17. HP_Zoro_HP

    HP_Zoro_HP Seasoned Veteran

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    that may be true Zog but doesn't justify the fact that when you attempt to random steal it tries to steal an insured item but not a blessd item? I mean if that's really how they want it to be then it should work both ways, not half ass it.
     
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  18. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    In all the time that I've spent being a fairly well accomplished thief, I think I can count on one hand how many times I've tried to steal a random object. The few times that I had done it was simply to be an annoyance.

    A skilled thief stalks their prey and decides which to steal from and what to steal. They don't walk through a crowd trying to grab whatever random item they can get their hands on.
     
  19. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Listen to Gb: why are you so gung-ho about an easy steal? Invest the other 100 points and pick your targets carefully.

    My most memorable theft was when I picked a fight with someone at a bank. I gated us to a sealed cave, I think below Bucs, but I can't confirm since the rune's long since hasn't worked. I even graciously flagged by summoning a creature and killing it. That was unnecessary since I was in the thieves' guild, but you see, he didn't realize I was a thief. What he also didn't realize was that I'd snooped him and kept his bandages as Last Target.

    BTW, I don't go by "Zog," since that's the name of a guild whose, ahem, adventures I chronicle.
     
  20. HP_Zoro_HP

    HP_Zoro_HP Seasoned Veteran

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    I guess its personal preference... I don't think it should be required to have snooping for it to work "correctly". If random stealing isn't how a thief is supposed to steal then remove the random stealing all together? I mean it comes down to personal preference and playstyle... 100 Skill points is a lot to invest and that's why I don't have it because i'd rather use those points to invest into something else.
     
  21. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    It is working correctly you are trying to steal ANY itme in the bag, how do you konw it isnt also a missed target like a blesses item, you dont. You want ot be a thief use the skill snooping and target an item, if not you risk targeting an insured / blessed item. That s the risk YOU chose to take.
     
  22. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I thin snooping should as eval is to Magery , but with that said random stealing insured items is also stupid I've always hated that..remember not everyone plays a stealth thief, some of us actually have pvp thieves that steal to win :)

    To make another point about the extra 100 skill you only need 90 get the burglars bandana shadow dancer legg and work in 30 steal on jewls and then you only need 60 steal 90 snoop 150 skill points for a whole class..is well worth it if played correctly

    Another point on random stealing, unless I'm wrong but if you attempt to steal potions that weight too much to steal, you cannot steal them and with the increase of potion weights kind of forces people to random steal since you just fail when targeted and don't steal "some of them"...unless I'm mistaken
     
  23. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    He knows it's not blessed because he said he tested it.
    Random stealing can be fun.
    I don't understand why folks are so up in arms because someone wants to random steal. Why does everyone care so much.
     
  24. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Since we are on stealing how about anti stealing - say a GM poisoner and a GM tinker can place a "Trapped" item (Weapon, Gold, Potion) that when grabbed in the bag sets of the trap like a Sting from a Box Jelly Fish - EXTREMELY DEADLY so that the thief falls dead in 5 steps. then you can random steal anything you want, BoS Insutred Items, Death Blow wala - want to avoid it learn how to snoop my bag and get the item you want.
     
  25. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    I dont care if he random steals i just want him to take the risk he is and deal with it, random stealing fails every so often because he tries and grab an item he cannot take - AS IT SHOULD BE. no need to cater to him because he doesn't want to use snooping.
     
  26. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Biggest effin' forum troll award goes to.......


    Drumroll please....


    Do I have to say?
     
  27. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Personally I prefer snooping, and I always will regardless. However, I have always thought it weird that items which cannot be stolen somehow figure into the whole "random" selection.
    Don't see why there is so much drama against this idea...at least from one person.
     
    #27 Viper09, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  28. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Did you know that with human skill you can sometimes get the snoop on the first try?
    Is this an anti-stealing thread now?

    I agree with the OP. Insured items should be treated as blessed items/runebooks etc when a random steal is attempted.
     
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  29. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    So, you want the 'random steal' to target something that is stealable instantly??? Its like saying i buy a lottery ticket - and it has to be a winning ticket.
     
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  30. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    I agree to DISAGREE - all items in bag are looked at and a RANDOM steal tryies for one of them - sorry working as intended no need to fix something not broken, or even looked at - GET SNOOPING

     
  31. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I would go back and forth with you about it but we aren't going to agree no matter what the other says.
    I will say this, stealing was created before insurance existed, so we don't know if this is intended or not, most of us just put up with it. You seem to be getting worked up over something rather trivial. I don't think it actually is intended, I think that no one ever brought it up before. Stealing isn't a playstyle like crafting or taming. Not everyone has a thief. If they did perhaps it would have come up a lot sooner. Now that it has, I agree, it should be looked at.
    Another reason it really hasn't come up is that most people don't have a bag full of insured items, so it's not like it happens very often. Most insured items are worn or equipped.
     
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  32. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    He wants random steal to only target things that are able to be stolen. He's not asking anything unreasonable, he doesn't want the ability to steal insured items.

    To the thread in general:
    I don't understand why this guy is getting so much grief. Target stealing insures you are going to get something worthwhile stolen (if you have it in your bag). Random stealing means he might get something relatively worthless. Wouldn't you rather have someone stealing from you randomly rather than choosing only your good ****?
     
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  33. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    You actually make the point for us. By definition, whatever a thief would be able to random steal would almost always be valuable non-insurables like bandages, potions, and petals. Or do you think we should go back to the old, old days when people carried a lot of bowls and other junk in their backpacks? It would help deter snooping, depending on which items were shown in front, which actually helped promote random stealing at the bank.

    Right now, a mere 100-120 points in stealing has a high chance with failing, and that's fine with me. Or, let me cast damage spells again without Eval.
     
  34. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    But we aren't talking about failing. We are talking about the game mechanics attempting to steal something that is insured.
    And I guess "valuable" is relative. Most folks I know don't consider bandages, potions or petals valuable.
     
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  35. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    If you have real skill GM snoop GM steal you should have a higher chance at getting non insured/blessed items if not all the time..remember, again when we steal we aren't stealing the whole stack most of the time only a portion of it
     
  36. Pignasty

    Pignasty Journeyman
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    I have to say, I agree with the consensus here. I think the OP has every right to steal in whatever way is fun for him, but afaik, random stealing targets anything at all in the pack, insured, blessed, too heavy, whatever. To make a change that allows a random steal to ignore those failure factors pretty heavily devalues Snooping as a skill. Snooping's ONLY value is to allow a discerning thief to choose what he'll target. Building failsafes into a random steal, while it wouldn't entirely negate the value of those skill points some of us spend in Snooping, would come pretty close.

    To continue the Eval/Magery analogy, it would be as if you made magery do full damage without Eval, while only keeping the active use of Eval to "snoop" another player's INT/mana as a reason to have it.

    And really, whichever side of the debate you're on, if you're in it for the value, you're missing most of the point.
     
  37. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    "Failing" means a lack of success. It means that the attempt to steal something FAILED because the item is insured.

    Of course it's a relative term. Try telling a non-chiv dexxer that his bandages aren't valuable, or a mage's refresh potions. If you're able to steal only what isn't blessed or insured, a few tries is bound to get something critical.
     
  38. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Before insurance, guess what... if it wasn't too heavy etc, thieves could random steal it. It still wasn't a guaranteed success ;) They still hit the problem of items being too heavy, being in containers, traps and the most important one - they didn't automatically get the most valuable item, just a random pick. If Mr Thiefy wanted something specific they had to snoop from then steal that item with a targeted steal. A lot of PvPers walk around with the most insane amount of crap in their backpacks. If you want to thwart random steals just make lots of piles of bandies and potions. Then the chances are the thief gets those and not the good stuff. Thieves *might* hit jackpot on the first go, but if they don't, you know the thief is around and you need to thief proof yourself quickly. You have the chance of killing the rogue before his timer lets him try again and you won't get a count from him even if he's blue.

    Consider that in stealing from other players, thieves are going to flag all the time. Even if you made this change so thieves got a random steal on uninsured stuff, they still run the risk of flagging for something worthless. Then finding the mark and his guildies all chasing them over a bandage. I've been that thief lmao. You'll miss the element of surprise for nothing. It is much better to sneak up, snoop and target something specific. A random thief is still going to need serious luck to equal a targeted thief.

    Even if you did get a PS at a champ, without looking it could be a 110 macing. You might miss the 120 taming one beside it. The most exciting thing I got on a random steal was a pillow. At Yew gate. I nearly died laughing nevermind being chased by the mark lol. Honestly, it's not the pot of gold some of you think it is. This is really just setting random steal up the way it used to work before insurance. Insurance is still going to work, bags of sending still works. Thief proofing and common sense work wonders too. Though I'm wondering how few Fel players do that nowadays heh.

    Wenchy
     
  39. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    My point here, is that if 'random stealing' auto targets stealable items - on champ spawns, thief just have to hit macro and target a player and he will for sure get a scroll that just dropped. I cant see any fairness in that. Then he should use his snoop skill and stealth up to player set it as last target and use his stealing ability and hit last target!

    Game mechanisme made it this way, and stealing aint worth much with all blessed and insured items. But it should not be made so that random stealing auto targets stealable items.
     
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  40. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    There are no facts to justify.

    You are attempting to randomly steal something.

    It makes perfect sense that you may attempt to steal a insured item.

    If someone blindly tries to steal one of those biker style wallets that attach to your belt with a chain guess what happens? They dont get it.
    Same principle.

    Why in the world would anyone try to steal something without checking it out first?

    Get Snooping and stop whining about nonsense maybe?
     
  41. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Thieving has been around since day 1 and is a part of UO history but lets not forget that it is a scumbag profession that is the definition of pure griefing.

    The Thief with nothing to lose targets the victim with everything to lose. That is pure griefing.

    At least back in the day the decent Thieves had a little skill and used macros along with Snooping to try and get a specific item.
    Todays thieves are too lazy and inept to actually steal easily obtained and valuable items like powerscrolls/sots at spawns.

    That is your proof that todays Thieves are nothing more then pure griefers only wanting to harrass people. If they were Thieving to make a living they would be stealing the powerscrolls and sots at spawns. But they dont. They just run around the gate without snooping.

    And we are supposed to feel bad for them now because they sometimes blindly try to take an insured item because they were too ignorant or lazy to train Snooping? Thats very funny.

    So I guess maybe this is just an anti stupid Thief thread.
     
  42. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    How would random stealing at a champ spawn ensure a power scroll? It's called "random" steal for a reason, because it is random. For all the thief knows, he/she could get band-aids, regs, gold, pots, random loot from monsters that the players looted, etc...
     
    #42 Viper09, Apr 24, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
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  43. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Changing the dynamic of stealing "IS" long overdue..

    Random stealing can be changed to target non insured/blessed items as long as you have the required skills

    Random steal chart
    100stealing
    0 snooping - 5% of 100% chance at non random steal all the way to
    120 stealing
    100 snooping - 95% chance at non insured random steal

    Thieves need love in general..stealing exceptional armor and food from barrels doesn't cut it anymore

    Doom is so not worth it

    Refinements have brought a little life back to the class but that's just for a few months or so..

    Maybe it's just wishful thinking on reviving a dead class in felucca who knows
     
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  44. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    While multiple piles is an old trick (and I talked about people in the old days doing that to deter thieves), I don't know anyone who PvPs with a backpack full of "junk." Are you talking about bandages? Potions? Scrolls? Junk weapons? Bowls, like in the old days?

    It's also rather hard to go after a thief in the later stages of a spawn, especially if you're being raided.

    Goldberg's point stands that, in UO and real life, there's a risk of blindly grabbing something that is secured. Considering that thieves don't have to risk much in the first place, is it too much to ask that they use another 100 skill points to get something good? Automatically ignoring non-insurables makes it far too easy to stealth up and random steal.
     
  45. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    When I first started playing, there were three types of thieves:

    1. Exploiters who used an infamous cheat program to snoop from across the screen, and multi-steal. When I was new, I actually believed one that he snooped from so far away because he had GM snooping.

    2. Bank thieves who didn't cheat, almost always random stealing, and relying on partners to loot their bodies.

    3. PvP thieves who took advantage of the bug by which they stayed blue after stealing outside town. I got noto PKd my first week this way. A bystander saw that I was gray for attacking someone else, who he didn't know was a thief.

    I'm not sure if it got any better with the vast majority of thieves. :) No disagreement from me on the rest, especially about lazy thieves...
     
  46. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    For what's invested, it's still too high a probability of getting something good. It's back to the days of bank thieves who lost little for being so annoying at minimum, and sometimes would grab something good.
     
  47. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    To me - the system is fine as is... it adds a little realism.

    If you snoop someone's pack and see that they have the items uninsured and you target that item - it's a clean targeted steal.

    If you just randomly reach into a pack and grab something - then you might get an item - or you might grab the item that's chained down (insured) on the inside of the pack - it's the difference between looking and targeting vs. just taking a chance to see if/what you can get.
     
  48. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Random is random by definition, isn't it?
    Also - in the old days stealing and/or PKing were not griefing by definition, they were part of the game. HOW they were done could make them griefing, or not.
     
  49. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Please tell me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that if..

    Ex
    Victim-has 42 GHeal potions
    Thief- I was those
    Thief- attempts to steal (too heavy to steal)
    Victim-lawl!
    Now with random stealing you can steal a portion of the potions if targeted but with snooping target stealing you do not steal a portion ff the potions, you just fail..

    Am I wrong? Because I really don't remember, it's been awhile since I had a pvp thief
     
  50. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

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    I think there should be a greater chance of getting caught, but not to fail completely. Someone above mentioned a chained wallet. If I grab a wallet chained to a huge guy on a Harley I am going to get caught and probably beaten up. LOL
    I'd be more on the side of making random stealing making you automatically turn grey to everyone around you than having the game mechanics try to steal something that cannot be stolen.
     
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