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Can we fix VvV?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Cutter, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    I know there are more pressing matters, but Is there any reason the town-buff stones need to be located on the Tram. facet?

    I know I'm not the only one who would like to see reds make a return, and this will only happen if they have access to town buffs. I feel like I'm beating on a dead horse here, but I think perhaps making VvV TOTALLY fel-based would help bring more people to Fel, and back into PvP.

    Making royal forged pardons a one-time deal would also help IMO. Allow returning players who are perma-red to do it ONCE, and only once. Regular pardons should also be limited...perhaps 1 per seven days or so.

    If this is not do-able, there should be SOME incentive to playing a red. Perhaps a special buff, or bring back 'Punkte' in some way shape or form, along with a leader board like factions had, only for murder counts.

    I saw a post on a thread a while back that as soon as one steps foot into FEL they become orange, VvV or not - this could also help keep bluebies from temporarily going orange with intent on interfering with fights...

    I realize it's the holidays, and there are other things to sort out first, but I think this should be addressd.
     
  2. Jovi

    Jovi Adventurer

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    I would do more Fel if there are more boss monsters there that drop legendary lol... it's so hard to find good legendary.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  3. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    The town buffs have nothing to do with VvV, they are part of the governor/town loyalty system. Kyronix has already said they were thinking about adding them to VvV somehow as well, but you shouldn't hold your breath. You can get the same buffs from fish pies if you really need/want them.
     
  4. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    24 hrs > seconds, or god forbid if you're full from apples or w/e.

    There must be a way to incoroprate/consolidate the VvV system with the town loyalty system. I was not aware they were not tied together TBH.

    There's gotta be some way to make this happen though, and I am guessing plenty would be in favor - pvpers and non-pvper's alike!

    It simply isn't fair that a red can't get that 24 hour FC buff!
     
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  5. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Pies are good for 5 mins, no cool downs. Pepta's Satiety Cure (requiring 2 tribal berries and 1 fresh ginger), from Pepta the Royal Taste Tester in Castle Britannia, will eliminate being full.

    This is why Kyronix was amenable to the idea of the buffs in Fel... Though they've had years to implement something and haven't. o.0
     
  6. Obsidian

    Obsidian Crazed Zealot
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    I think the one-time use of a royal forged pardon is a great idea. It gives a chance to remove red status for a returning player, but keeps the element of murderers in the game. After all, we need some way to get Justice.
     
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  7. Lord Gandalf

    Lord Gandalf Babbling Loonie
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    Why complicating things, when the simplest solution is by adding the town buffs to fel towns? No need to make a plan B for this & i miss being red again
     
  8. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Why not add the Governor system for Fel towns too, I personly find, every npc town should be able to choose a Governor, that include Luna, Umbra, Cove, Ter Mur etc to rebuild the community around the NPC towns.
    I also believe the Governor should be able to choose a set of 3 town buff as he may have different kind of Citizen, mages, warriors, crafters etc
    Second allow the Governor to raise or lower taxes to draw more Citizens or get more money for the town.
    If Citizen in a town, you should get a little lower prices in your town and governor should be able to increase taxes for visitors. That could cound for bribing too.
     
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  9. Coco_Zamis_DF

    Coco_Zamis_DF Seasoned Veteran
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    I think the Bonus of VVV Items is enough compared to town buff if you stay red. There should be a Penalty to be a murderer.
    Btw. I haven't Seen reds for a Long time. So thoose nonreds dudes can get a Town buff.
    The problem which I see is going orange when fighting out of the active vvv town if you have not joined vvv.
     
  10. Lord Gandalf

    Lord Gandalf Babbling Loonie
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    1. Every pvper has access to vvv items, not just reds.
    2. I dont see why you want to add a penalty to players who wish to flag on blues.
    3. You haven't seen reds because the buffs are only provided in tram, but that doesnt mean that players dont want to go red.
    4. The "turning orange bug" was addressed many times in forums, you ain't getting any credits for placing this argument here
     
  11. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    Turning orange for flagging a player in VVV was about the best mechanic they could have added to the system.

    No more knob heads griefing and players having to go red or eat pardons to defend against a group of blues while trying to let one orange get enough damage to put you in stats.

    This IS actually working as intended.
     
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  12. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    That makes sense, but it works both ways. I've seen VvV guilds raid blues, and just take all the counts they want (regularly) knowing they can just eat a few pardons later.

    They've made it too easy to go from red to blue to red back to blue, etc. Most people don't play red because they feel there is no reason to with their town buff in tramell, and no way to get said buff as a red.

    The turning orange thing is another matter entirely, and one that has never even bothered me, but I feel (and think i'm not the only one) strongly about the VvV stones being available to reds. Can you imagine if reds hadn't been able to join factions back in the day?
     
  13. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Except it doesn't always flag someone orange if they attack a vvv player, which is stupid.
     
  14. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    It have nothing to do with the Buff being in Trammel. On Siege, where reds can go to governor towns and I believe they can be a citizen off a town too, we still have very few reds. There are a lot other disadvantages from being red, like not being able to use the virtue
     
  15. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    I think it does the majority of the time dependant on criminal status also.

    If you go grey while orange you should be freely attack able without flagging/turning orange.
     
  16. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    This wouldn't be a flaw with the flagging mechanic.


    Arguably, the blue vs an orange has the advantage because they turn orange and don't appear to take any counts If they attack.

    On the other hand, VVV players will take counts for attacking a blue.

    If we are worried about not having reds I'm sure we could have them start giving counts to non VVV blues for attacking VVV players.
     
  17. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    I agree reds need a town bonus. The FC1 bonus makes a big difference in a suit. It's quite sad to see barely any reds now.
     
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  18. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    What bonus? The only item anyone uses from VvV is the crimson - yay, a few extra stats that anyone can get, blue or red.
    The penalties to being a murderer are plentiful meanwhile: can't go to tram; can't use virtues; can't effectively use chivalry; can't be involved in champ killing (if you want max scrolls), and the list goes on.

    Why should blues be able to get such an important buff like fc +1 (and the other town buffs) but reds can't?
     
  19. Turles (UHOH)

    Turles (UHOH) Adventurer

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    cause they hate reds sir it is pretty simple to see.
     
  20. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Because obviously you are an evil murderer and you obviously don't need any extra help to protect yourself from evil PKs...
     
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  21. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    The problem is that most PKs these days are blue. They just kill whoever they like, then they just eat pardons. So penalizing just reds seems a bit off to me.
     
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  22. Obsidian

    Obsidian Crazed Zealot
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    If they make the royal forged pardon a one time use per character this would solve this work-around. Then the aggressor has a choice to be red or not attack the blue. As it stands today, there is no deterrent to going red as it can be undone relatively easily.
     
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  23. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    Exactly. There also needs to be some benefit to being red though, or at very least, access to the standard things like Town Buffs that everyone else gets.
     
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  24. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
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    There is NO non-consensual pvp in UO anymore. By playing in Fel you have voluntarily entered into the pvp arena. Everyone should be orange in Fel and murder counts should just go away.
     
  25. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    Agreed there is no reason to be red. Town buff stones should also be in fel and maybe reds should be immune to statloss or something if VVV.
     
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  26. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    Ridiculous. PKing is an integral part of UO and always has been. This stupid VvV system (and royal pardons) simply made everyone go blue out of what boils down to cowardice.

    THANK YOU.

    No. Reds don't want special treatment, just FAIR treatment, and access to the same fixtures of PvP that everyone else gets.
     
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  27. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    Interesting idea actually. I'd be sad to lose my thousands of long-term counts, but that is seriously intriguing. There could also be a ranking system similar to the kills/deaths feature on test.
     
  28. n00bPvper

    n00bPvper Adventurer

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    things like that: no goal system(vvv) and reds extinction is why u see so many ppl on the freeshards and leaving OSI...
     
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  29. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
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    Pvp should have a much better, immersive system than we have now... something with rankings and meaningful rewards.... but the idea that we need any sort of penalty (murder counts that restrict access to other content) for participating in pvp on the pvp facet is long outdated IMO.
     
  30. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    OMG LMFAO If PKing was such an integral part then Tram Rule Set would have never happened and all shards would be like SP. You do understand why UO was forced to create TRAM.
     
  31. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    Being blue in Fel is an issue with the current VvV status. We have blues at spawns casting EFields and walls to be annoying. Without going red they are still an issue. I say if you enter a Fel Dungeon you should automatically be under VvV rule set. When you leave if you did not flag you turn back blue again. No orange till death timer


    ....
     
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  32. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    And for gods sake bring back show score punkte and have kills count outside towns. The counter in guild menu is broken.


    ....
     
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  33. elster

    elster Journeyman

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    It is an integral part. If it wasn't, then there would be no fel, and you wouldn't be able to attack blues at all. Just because there are other integral parts that lead to tram, doesn't mean that this also isn't one.
     
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  34. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Please explain how limiting pardons will increase the number of reds... Surely it will just turn the weiner boys into bigger weiners. Also, the red issue has little to do with VvV, i think you can still get the town buffs without joining VvV no?
     
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  35. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    It won't! It was dumb to even add into the game tbh. It should of been a $4.99 account bound purchase to avoid or at least discourage duping. Instead..it's so pathetically easy to remove kill counts and avoid the downsides or being a "murderer" in UO at least on that one character, have disappeared..just like any notable distinguishable noriety system of yesteryear. They are systematically phasing out what made fel fun tbh..eventually you won't even be able to notice the difference between fel and Tram, minus the foliage.


    ....
     
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  36. Lord Gandalf

    Lord Gandalf Babbling Loonie
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    Who said PKs are evil? And why do you want them to be debuffed/nerfed for killing innocent players sitting in the wrong facet.
    Do you even remember the 1st message you get for visiting fel? You just take it at ur own risk...

    The DEVs have built u all u ever dreamed of in trammel, you got all the good loot, buffs, unique dungeons, kindergartens and parks! So please stop accusing me of stealing your lolly pop when i ask for a Town buff.

    Last question: Am i considered to be an evil murderer when i kill blues running mining/lumberjack or auto-attack scripts in fel lands & dungeons? Or scripters running detecting hidding at fel moongates?
     
    #36 Lord Gandalf, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  37. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm all for people in Fel getting a town buff... I've NEVER said anything against it.

    The only thing I'm against is allowing Fel PvP in Tram.

    If you ask me really I think they ought to do away with the whole red business in the first place since it really doesn't have any meaning anymore... before when all the land was open PvP it had meaning and folk steered clear of reds knowing they were killers... but now when you go to fel you know what you are doing... so I see no reason for "red"... but that's me.

    I've often thought that maybe they ought to have you chose Chaos or Virtue when entering Fel... and you just keep that till you leave... one side green the other orange... but that's me.
     
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  38. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    PvP was the integral part of UO, PKing was the children going beserk that EA told UO to fix it NOW because all the people leaving.
     
  39. Obsidian

    Obsidian Crazed Zealot
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    I don't think we can take away red status when power scrolls are still Fel only. PS are a necessary part of the game for all characters to advance. There will always be some blues in Fel that do not want to PvP but have no choice if they wish to advance their characters.
     
  40. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
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    So why should players who choose to come to Fel to get powerscrolls be able to punish players who want to pvp on the pvp facet? When you come to Fel for it's only real reward you should accept the risk.
     
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  41. Obsidian

    Obsidian Crazed Zealot
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    Likewise, there should continue to be a detriment to those who wish to attack innocents. This is an integral part of this game and has been since the beginning.

    I'm not opposed to giving Reds a way to earn town buffs, but I think there should continue to be Reds and Blues in UO.
     
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  42. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    The first step they need to take is making power scrolls Shard Bound. That should of been done as soon as shard transfer became a thing. They dropped that ball.


    ....
     
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  43. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
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    It is IMPOSSIBLE to attack an innocent in UO. Coming to Fel is consenting to PVP. If you don't consent, stay out of Fel.
     
  44. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    That would fix nothing as people will just sell them where they get them and Xfer Gold to Atl or they will just take Atl Gold for them when they sell them. Either way the GOLD is going to Atl.
     
  45. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    What they do when selling or with the gold is irrelevant. It would stop the non stop farming of dead shards to kill what's left of the economy of active ones.


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  46. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    No it will not. They will farm the dead shards and people will just take their char over there and eat them then go back to Atl or what ever shard they want. How do you think most people are getting the Masteries, they sure ain't paying over inflated Atl prices.
     
  47. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
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    Only if they have shard shields, which of course not everybody does.
     
  48. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    So that's realllllly where this debate is going? Lol. Well I'll tell you what. If people want to waste two xfers to save a few mil. Go right ahead.


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  49. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Clueless as always.
     
  50. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    And you would be surprised who many accounts have them.