1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Can we get rid of item insurance?

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Goodmann, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    There is no penalty these days for getting killed. 5k of GOLD? Put some challenge back into this game and take away item insurance OR make it to where it cost 50k-100k (50k for fel/100k for tram) when you die. Maybe allow One Bless item like Seige.
     
  2. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2001
    Messages:
    17,282
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    *Freja get some :popcorn:and watch where this thread goes*
     
    G.v.P likes this.
  3. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    I want to see what people think about this but yeah prob will need some butter for that popcorn
     
  4. BigEv

    BigEv Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    119
    Lol ya i think Goodman pickin a fight thread........Gettum!

    I mean really Goodman in tram? 100k penalty? Sure new players will love that. Only way to hang is buy uo gold form those noname sites or untrusted people In game scammin then and thats no way to play unless Ea want to sell gold.....lol
    Ps. Not everyone uo rich like us Goodman ;) 100k death very high for most regular players.
     
    #4 BigEv, Aug 19, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  5. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    If you don't like insurance, then turn it off for yourself, and the same goes for Mervyn. Most everyone is fine with it.

    As to your proposal of a ten-fold increase, that would suit you, wouldn't it: get a couple of res kills, then stealth away for the night.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  6. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2001
    Messages:
    17,282
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Or come and play with us on Siege :)
     
    DungHook, dupapa, Lord Frodo and 3 others like this.
  7. Leira of Asrai

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    51
    They increased insurance costs for high end crafted gear and artifacts.
    They introduced uber stat loot that is un-insurable (cursed) and un repairable.

    The risk to new/poor players is lower than for players with high-end gear.
    I like the Tramm system as is...

    I also play on Seige with no complaints having no insurance; I just don't keep high end gear.

    UO made good decisions with the current changes to the insurance system. It's not broken, so don't try fixing it.
     
  8. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    831
    No offense to Siege...but if the shard rules of Siege appealed to the majority of the playerbase, there would be more players on Siege than on Atlantic or any other US shard. There isn't...so...yeah, this thread won't really go anywhere.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, what's wrong with PvP isn't a lack of loot, it's a lack of a fun system. I'm going to miss faction base fights but the last time I saw a stronghold full of people was over five years ago. PvP for loot isn't PvP, it's PKing, and PvP for items (like faction items) isn't much better. PvP at its best is a competitive sport. If anything, in my opinion, people who PvP should have less insurance cost, and more incentive to risk death. A good story can help, too.

    The new Virtue/Vice system is coming in flawed as well. Removing base fights is a bad move in my opinion. Fighting over shrines is less fun than Champ Spawns and adds too many new zones to fight. In fact, it'll be even more tedious than Factions, since you could at least assume to fight at a base even if you couldn't cover every town 24/7. I hope the devs will take their time and develop a simple system that will be low risk and fun.
     
    DungHook and MalagAste like this.
  9. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    372
    I am PRO item insurance. Hence why i don't play Siege
     
  10. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    372
    If you are in a position in the field where it is possible for someone to reskill you, then you know yourself that you shouldn't be ressing there. If you're going to be a blue whack a mole, then expect to be whacked repeatedly.

    I and the rest of my guild are in factions, we are very careful about where we get ressed, I don't think we've ever been reskilled by an orange. Yeah sure we've been reskilled by non oranges, but we allow that to happen because we understand that the loss of 5k is nothing to us. As i'm sure do you when you allow yourself to be reskilled by ressing in the field and not going to a safer location.

    If item insurance did indeed cost everyone over a mill, you'll find not many people get reskilled as people won't allow themselves to be.
     
  11. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    It's a very insulting assumption on your end that I res right in the middle of things, and since currently I fight NO oranges at all, out the window goes both parts of "we are very careful." And when I'm ressed, it doesn't take into account any stealth archers looking for an easy res kill. You know, something you're familiar with.

    Making a death cost 50K or 100K, as hard as the following may be to imagine, would make the current state of gankfests even worse. Upon death, people would start using their other accounts to gate themselves to a safe house.
     
  12. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    I tried when it first opened, but I hate rebuilding characters, and I have even more houses now (some grandfathered) that I couldn't duplicate.
     
  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    5,450
    FYI if there wasn't item insurance and if the insurance cost over a Mill you'd find that UO would quickly become more of a ghost town that it is... Just saying. You want to see folk flock away more in this game?

    Most folk who play want to hunt and gather and build their uber hunter/gatherer for stuff so they can sell crap on their vendors and make gold. They don't give one **** about PvP... I hate to break it to you but a vast majority of players wouldn't set foot in Fel.... and they like their insurance and "carebear" lifestyle..... it's when you try to "force" them to Fel rules they quit and leave. So yes by all means keep making dumb suggestions.....

    If you want more of a challenge for yourself then don't insure your crap... convince your friends to do so too and you'll soon find yourself the main target of every PK from miles around because they will see you with dollar signs..... Thinking of all the free stuff they can get from you and sell on their vendors...

    If the challenge is what your looking for then go to Siege... all that is already in place and it's loads of fun. But don't try to ruin things for other folk who would otherwise leave. Don't need any more excuses for folk to quit... there are more than enough already.
     
    DungHook, Lord Frodo and Skunk like this.
  14. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    372
    Hmm, so the mass account re-activations lately have been for the kings collection items? and not for the mere suggestion of pvp updates?

    I don't know about other shards but Europa was massively lagged out from the harrower popped last night.

    Trammel has had it's pixel candy and no more amount is going to get more players.

    When i say 'we' i meant the guild i am in of factioners, and there are orange stealth archers, we are just careful to not be reskilled by them. And yes sometimes that means getting guildmates to gate me to a safe house.

    I don't really know what you mean by gank, if you're finding you're constantly outnumbered by opposing players then try joining a guild of similar interests. I hear there are some nice role playing dictatorship red guilds on Europa.

    You talk of gank, there is nothing wrong with ganking, if you want to duel someone, goto the duel arena. There is tactics and skill involved in ganking another player whilst being ganked yourself. In the guild I'm in, when we recruit players who have played alone for a long time, it takes a long time to get them to work as a team player, it's a whole new skillset. People whine at me and say I don't lvl anymore and how I used to be the best mage on the shard and how I now just gank, but I don't kill people lvl anymore not because I can't, but because my templates and suits are all designed around teamplay. If i was a duelist i'd have an inscribe wrestle mage with 18 casting focus. My chars are barely self sufficient, that is to say I can just about defend myself in a lvl however I am designed for teamplay and that is the way that pvp has evolved. This is not a solo game, it's online for a reason.

    People think that when they are attacking me and i'm not fighting back very well it's because I suck, I'm normally busy assisting my gm with tactical plans on whom we're going to "gank" next (despite being outnumbered ourselves).

    So no there's nothing wrong with having to get a guildmate to gate you to a safehouse, it's what guildmates are for. Stop playing as many individuals and learn to co-operate.

    The whole concept of one player being able to solo a Champ has destroyed teamplay in UO and we as gankers are doing our best to bring back co-operation, community, and care for thy neighbour.
     
  15. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    So you must have received hard numbers from a secret source within EA accounting whose identity you cannot divulge, huh. Otherwise how would you know?

    As I said, I don't fight any oranges at all.

    "Gankfest" means that the vast majority of opponents are so cowardly that the only way they'll fight me isn't even 2v1, but at minimum 3v1 and 4v1.

    That's pretty funny. You're very good at absurd stand-up comedy.

    And you keep proving my point exactly about why it's already a gankfest, and that heavy insurance costs will only make it worse.

    I don't demand duels every time, but it's pathetic when the only opponents I ever see could never fight me 1v1. Or as an old-time Sonoma wannabe once said, "I could kill you 1v1, I just choose to gank you." Yeah, well, he could kill Tree at crossroads and gank with the best of them, and post fake screenshots on Stratics.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  16. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    14,717
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Oh, is it that time of the week already?
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  17. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    If you ever tried fighting/pvping 1 vs 1 you would understand that it is not about the gold or the looting of gear. It is about knowing who bested who in a fair fight.
    Insurance or the lack of insurance has no bearing at all on this.
    You obviously do not understand this and most likely are not interested in fair fights. To you a fight is nothing more then a means to trash talk and thump your chest after you gank.

    I truly feel sorry for you Goodman
     
  18. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    265
    IBTL :postcount:

    I would like no insurance if suits didn't take months and billions of gold to make, but since they made it so complicated it is a necessary evil now :(
     
    #18 Orgional Farimir, Aug 19, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    There is no good argument for removing item insurance.

    It would force players to face a permanent diminishment of effectiveness upon death, thereby encouraging more-cowardly play.
    • "Surely that would promote teamwork!"! No, it would not, because teamwork is risky unless your team is zerg-level large (see below). Teamwork by definition means risking yourself on someone else's behalf. I'd suspect such a move would actually diminish teamwork.
    • "What do you mean "permanent" you Trammie noob! Everything can be replaced these days." No, it really can't. First of all in case you've missed it, loot is back as a viable means of getting stuff and I don't have the impression that literally everything available on loot is available from either Reforging or Imbuing or both. Lots of things but not all. Certainly not from certain artifacts, such as the popular Rune Beetle Carapace and the popular Mace and Shield Reading Glasses.
    • "Too poor to afford your stuff, you Trammie noob?" Whether or not I'm too poor to afford to replace my stuff is infinitely less-relevant than the fact that some people are. Remember all of those other threads complaining about runaway inflation and the game's ruined economy? You notice them in between the posts that argue the economy is ruined because stuff is too cheap.
    Indeed the only players it would favor, curiously, are those in the larger, PvP-oriented, predatory guilds. Those guilds could pool resources to replace stuff more-easily and, perhaps even more tellingly, in effect insure that no corpses of theirs are looted when they die in the field. Sooner or later they wouldn't have their own stuff alone, they would have yours too.
    • "Galen you're such a ****ing Trammie. This is just teamwork! Risk vs. reward!" Save that there's effectively no risk if your guild is large enough and the only means you have of not losing your stuff is that no one loots you. Of course, based on how I've seen such guilds work in the past some members will be protected in this manner and some will not.
    It's simply not fun; based on what others have said about other games, they on average have less of a death penalty than we do, on average. Many of them are more successful than we are or at least appear so.
    • "Galen I have you on ignore, you suck, you're a Trammie, go back to Barney-land." This is an argument from your own preferences, which by definition I can't challenge, so all I can say is for you to go **** yourself or go play Siege which already has no insurance and is a self-selected group.
    I could go on and on about the various ways this is a terrible idea and responding to the standard arguments I've heard in the past when this ******** "issue" has come up, but the truth is that I'm ****ing tired. Of a lot of things.

    -Galen's player
     
  20. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    LOL
     
  21. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Bringing back the 3rd Dawn dancing and adding the Teabag Monkey Stomp will have higher fanfare with PVPers then getting rid of insurance.
     
  22. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2001
    Messages:
    17,282
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    Bring back dancing could be really cool, may even be useful in PvP :p A PK see a victim, he/she starts dancing. The PK get interrupted and maybe forget e was going to kill the dancer or at least get a little softer :p
     
  23. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,750
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    a very simple and easy change to thing, that could actually be implemented is get rid of insurance cost all together. replace it with stat loss. nothing crazy, but enough to make you not want to die over and over. i think 5 points overall stat loss would be sufficient. it doesnt take that much time to raise back up, but would be enough to deter multiple deaths. and free so new players will appreciate that.

    on a side note, i can see the devs prefering a complicated insurance change with 30 different options and levels rather than something simple like this.
     
  24. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    14,717
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Are you trying to get someone to murder you here or what?
     
    Smoot, Lord Frodo and Snakeman like this.
  25. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Taylor dear the children are fighting.........
    The instigator knew he was starting a fight too..... bed with no supper I see in his future. * pears in crystal ball*
     
  26. dupapa

    dupapa Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    49
  27. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,961
    Likes Received:
    165
    And it isn't even April 1st yet..... good joke

    So you die at a Spawn a couple of times (easy to do) down 10 now, loss of connection or internet Svc & a minor monster comes up & kills you another 5, or one of our lovely EM blood bath events they put on with the famous 1 hit insta kill monsters they so like to put in, so you die once there, are you going to stick around & die multiple times knowing 1 hit kills are abundant to be GM or less after being 120...?? now you have to gain all them multiple 5's you have lost back.... I think not
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  28. The Mule

    The Mule Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    87
    Dear PVPers,

    I don't like to PVP. Stop trying to force it on me. Stop complaining about how trambears should be hindered, limited, penalized etc... when we don't play your style.

    Thanks.
     
    The Zog historian likes this.
  29. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
    Professional Governor Stratics Veteran King'sYewHighlanders

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,018
    Likes Received:
    2,351
    Silly idea. Hands off.
     
  30. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,750
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    yes i think this would be fine. say at an EM event, you die once your already "out" for getting a drop. so even if you died lets say 3 more times your character would still be playable. stats go up with normal gameplay, so its not like your going to have to take time out of your game to get your stats back up. you die in fel in pvp, same thing. this would just prevent multiple death within a very short time period. Like at a spawn, i might die 2 or 3 times while im soloing it. but the character is still playable. I think thats the point of this thread, that there should be a reason not to die. and insurance is not longer viable reason.
     
  31. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,750
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    Another similar idea (no this is getting complicated so the devs might like it :p) would be you are "allowed" 1 death every 10 minuts with no penalty. each death insurance cost multiplies by 3. So if your first death cost lests say 10k gold, the second withing ten mins would be 30k, the third 90k. and so on. 10 mins would have to pass without death for costs to return to normal.

    Now i dont like this, id much rather see a deterrent that has nothing to do with gold, because of the huge disparity between new player and established player gold amounts.

    Somthing like faction stat loss might be good, but not near that amount. something where the character still has to be playable, but to the point where you dont want to die again would be perfect. like maybe a 1-5 percent reduction instead of 20.
     
  32. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Lol.

    This cesspool of a thread started for no other reason then to whine has finally been moved to its proper location.

    Thank you :)
     
  33. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    It is easy to forget that some players simply love the insurance. It is also easy to forget that not every player is rich and that there is indeed such a thing as new players. Don't like insurance and feel that it decreases the risk? Turn it off. Or, quite simply, play Siege. I know that saying "play Siege" is a bit overused as a response to people complaining about insurance, but it is honestly the best idea to propose. Insurance will never be deactivated on the production shards just as it will never be activated on Siege/Mugen.
     
    Skunk likes this.
  34. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2001
    Messages:
    17,282
    Likes Received:
    3,231
    I believe alot love insurance because they are getting use to have it. In Trammel, I have hard with seeing the need for Item Insurance as it would bring back alot team work if they removed it.
    Now players go solo and if they die, the only lose is some momey and stackables. Without insurance, they would more likely go with a friend or two and help each others getting the stuff back from loting monsters.
    I believe that would bring back some joy to the game and make the game more exciting.
    Maybe only allow items with imbuing weight of max 300 to be imbued, that way, young and poor could insure some medy stuff like a 5x 70 LRC suit with MR but if maxed out, they would take the risk for losing it.

    Same in Fel, want a killing suit, you can't insure i.

    Now I only play Siege and I can easy sell maxed out imbued stuff and are filling orders too. The one who can affort the upper gear can also affort the risk for losing it.
    I also sell alot cheap suits, some only with LRC, somewith LRC and MR and alot with 5x70, LRC100, MR6. However suits with 5x70, LRC100, MR6, LMC40 sell faster than I can get time to stock them and I'm sure I could sell suits better than that too.

    If players have some bad days, with lose of a few good suits, they will just run in lesser gear until they again can affort better stuff.

    We had a few years, where the upper imbued was to expensive and that made alot PvP'ers give up as if you want to PvP, you need good gear or you need to be safe in numbers and afew players too, it did not work to well. As our numbers grow now with the new house rules, an option to use mystic token, it will be more balanced on Siege as more players also mean more craftrs and resource gathers. We had always seen some resource prices drop a little, special for leather and clothes. When this new players get stronger, I hope we will see more relic, essences and other imbuing resources get cheaper too.

    I don't think we have any free stall vendor slots left on Siege and new shops grow up. If Siege keep growing, it will changes alot on Siege and add more fun. It start to remind more and more about old days, where blue would group up to be safe vs the PK's, andnothing make the day as when a group of blue farmers success killing the PK's who attacked them.

    In Trammel,