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Can we make an all Tram shard?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Kotan, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    There is an all fel shard the way they like it. Can there be an all tram shard without a fel.

    Rules:
    *1 char slot (if you got 7th char slot, maybe 2)
    *no Xfers
     
  2. Just stay in tram? Whats the difference?
     
  3. Hemisphere

    Hemisphere Always Present
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    Champ spawns and factions
     
  4. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    hmm... it's obvious: all the stuff they get in fel; and not having to deal with (some) lame PvPers (not saying they are all lame)
     
  5. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    and people thought some of my ideas are bad.

    Go play a free shard they have candy land shards like what you want.
     
  6. Intoxication

    Intoxication Guest

    how would you be able to wear faction stuff if you can't kill people for points to gain rank and how would you defend a sigils if you can't stop people from taking them?

    sounds dumb to me. I vote NO
     
  7. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    I would play this shard.
     
  8. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    Just quit UO please.
     
  9. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    Yeah, I believe a lot of people would. Siege is not for everyone; and neither would this shard - but a significant amount of people would play this shard and Siege still.

    ---------------------
    And to the free shard poster: you aren't supposed to be able to use the client to play a free shard.
     
  10. Lunaticus

    Lunaticus Guest

    I'm a born and bred Trammie, but even I wouldn't go for this shard. Although I can't seem to keep from getting ganked just about every time I go to Fel, I still wouldn't want to play a shard without it.
     
  11. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    My main concern is that adding another special-rules shard creates more QA overhead (assuming you'd like powerscrolls and any future systems added to Fel).

    I'm an all-Tram player, but I would have a hard time deciding whether to move to an all-Tram shard. I like the dynamic of having certain specialized lands with locked-in natives.

    I don't think that it would bring any greater peace to the community to seperate the shards - we would still argue over design descisions that helped the playablity of one but disrupted the other. There would still be elitism on both sides.

    I can't think of anything ingame that would drive me to an all-Tram shard ... most of the frustration I feel from time to time comes from reading U.Hall.
     
  12. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Actually you hit upon some good points, OP. Though some of them were accidental.

    Let me make a rearrangement of your idea for a new ruleset shard (to go alongside Siege, Mugen, etc.)

    (And btw... shame on those of you trolling this thread with things like "Just go quit" or whatever... this game already supports multiple rulesets and someone proposing a new one to stand on its own like siege with a different ruleset is nothing you have any business getting nasty about. If you didn't like it you wouldn't have to go play on it. In short, get a life and stop treating this game like a real life achievement substitute separating the hardcore from the candylanders.)

    1. All items available in Tram or areas with Tram rulesets. (i.e. no PvP guilds controlling who is "allowed" to access certain champs, or certain drops, thus forcing PvMers to either BECOME PvP'ers, roll PvP toons, leech off PvP guilds, or else pay through the nose for relatively common items which are kept in artificial shortage.)

    To be honest I think this is common sense. The current system is just a hamfisted poorly conceived way to try to make the communities interact/depend on each other. I see every benefit to PvP'ers and zero to PvM'ers in needing items from Fel to complete your character.

    2. Two character slots on the shard. Reason I say two? Well, with just one, the few who play on the shard will have multiple accounts, and only having one will force most people to have a relatively pure combat character of some sort. I'd like to see a diversity of abilities and craftsmen, and a real need for player-provided skills. When everyone has a GM Smith, GM Miner, GM Carpenter, GM Tinker, GM Alchemist such as is common on the production shards right now, no one really needs anyone else except to trade arties. Having one combat main and perhaps limit the second character slot to 400 skill points total... so that you can't simply GM 7 different trade skills on him/her.

    I'd play on such a shard.
     
  13. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    How is "knowing that it's there" and depending on them for items to complete your character (at an extensively inflated price) to your benefit?
     
  14. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Not again! :bored:

    Suggestion: Don't go to Felucca, and there you have an all Trammel Shard.
     
  15. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Sure if you don't mind buying gold online or saving money for a year to afford the things you need to complete your toons. Other than that there's a "complete Tram game experience" to be had.

    *Rolls eyes*
     
  16. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    I don't see why not. As long as they close one of the other shards. Too many shards already.

    I always said they should have split the facets up from the beginning. People should never have been able to move back and forth to Trammel and Felucca.

    Oh yeah, and any other ideas that side-line transfer tokens, soul stones, gender change, and name change tokens, I'm for.

    :spider:
     
  17. BardMal

    BardMal Guest

    Interesting idea, might build a good community in such a rule set. Probably be a few bad eggs come there to grief people when worldly frustrations overwhelm them, but over the years I think a good, strong community base could develop.

    Perhaps another idea would be a shard with perma death for characters with murderer status; and perma red for over 7 murder counts. With a char/account cap of one or two, and a timer on recreate after a perma death.

    Currently, there are no "real" repercussions for anti social behavior, like there once was at least a semblance of with stat loss.

    Myself, I'm so tired of the cheaters and many of the weak egos that populate Felluca, I refuse to go there anymore, which deprives me of a facet of game play which I once enjoyed very much.
     
  18. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    i also dont see the problem, i would say we have to much trammel shards ;). what should this be for an advantage to have a trammel only shard?
     
  19. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    If you politely ignore the game's economy and powerscroll-dependent content, then yes, you're right.
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ....

    How about instead the devs focus on repairing and rebalancing the existing Trammel facets so that they provide a decent level of PvM challenge for all skill levels (based of course on which facet and/or dungeon you visit), rebalanced PvM combat and as much as possible a rebalanced economy (which means that some of the ease of acquiring wealth needs to be limited as well as new methods of "sinking" that wealth) instead?

    Asking for a Tram-only shard as already seen will do nothing but continue the flame wars. It'd be interesting to see, but I'd rather focus on things that could possibly considered by the devs to happen over pie in the sky ideas.
     
  21. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    The only thing they really need to do is not make content and drops that are necessary for completion of characters/builds in Trammel be Felucca-only drops. Very simple.

    They haven't done that, either in a misguided attempt to try to make the communities "stay interactive", but more likely in my suspicion, as a pander to Fel-only players who, like in any MMO, whine that PvP isn't supported as a playstyle and is 'pointless.' So they were given essentially control of things that all players ultimately need, to the great boon of some of the worst scum guilds on each shard and gold-buying sites, and to the detriment of everyone else.
     
  22. rwek

    rwek Guest

    These special shards in every gave I have every played die off pretty fast.



    Seige is dead. And most special rule servers in DAOC/EQ etc are dead.


    spend developer time elsewhere where its most appreciated.
     
  23. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    Ya right, how long have people been asking for a pre:uor shard?

    Goodluck with this one but it will never happen. Im taking it your po'd cause you cant get powerscrolls and dont seem to think its fair?:scholar:
     
  24. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    Log on siege the population is like 100, with 20 active players. On a daily basis you can find maybe 10-15 people actually playing the game if you spend a few hours looking for them. And 5 out of the 10-15 will be either in their homes or at the bank afk.


    Your idea is horrible.
     
  25. Gandie

    Gandie Guest

    Fel shard the way "we" like it?

    I want a fel shard with normal rules, or one without item mods, not one in between with blessed items and other crap.
     
  26. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    False; you don't.
    ----------------------
    And to another post; all my characters I want to 120 are 120. Either I or my guild have gotten them, or I've bought them. But I think it's unfair to force people to a PvP world when they don't want to.
     
  27. Kayne.

    Kayne. Journeyman
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    So -


    People have been asking for a pre aos shard for a long time.

    Devs have stated MANY times.

    ITS
    NOT
    HAPPENING

    The code has just changed so much.

    You would think people would get the hint. For any type of specialized shard.
    Its Not happening.

    People have been asking for...what 7 years?

    Its not happening.

    Hellokittyonline.com

    thesimsonline.com
     
  28. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Um okay I guess Draconi saying two weeks ago that he loved the idea doesn't count.
     
  29. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Siege has a whole set of baggage as to why it doesn't have widespread appeal; it was never a super popular ruleset even when it was brand new.

    After witnessing what happened after Trammel was created... you can't argue a Trammel shard would have an equivalent lack of widespread appeal.
     
  30. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    While I play the majority of my UO time in Tram, I've got to say this is the most rediculous idea I've ever seen. Felucca rulesets are intended to be greater challenges, and consequently greater rewards. Having a shard with only Tram ruleset will remove the vast majority of the challenge. Eventually, the few folks would become very bored with it. I don't see a great feeling of accomplishment coming from being able to develop everything quickly and with ease.

    Besides, I just can't fathom how someone can call themselves a gamer of any kind when all they want to do is play in a nerfed carebear land.
     
  31. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    lol.

    No. Stay in trammel, if your afraid of PK's don't go to fel. If you want the items in fel, then take a risk.

    Where is the risk vs reward in a trammel shard?
     
  32. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    Not all games force you to attempt to PvP like UO does. Yes, they force you to get scrolls - sometimes you HAVE to go above 100. If you say you don't; you just showed your lack of game knowledge.

    It's not that I am afraid to go to fel; but sometimes I'd like to play and do stuff I like in a less stressful environment.
     
  33. HD2300

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    I predict that this is going to happen sooner rather than later. Maybe even in 8 days time.
     
  34. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    a) No, it doesn't make the game more challenging. I do not find it fun to Gank and Get Ganked with my paid time in a videogame. Thus, I refuse to do it. Why I should be forced to EITHER do that OR buy gold online to advance my character in PvM is a question everyone has failed to answer. Having those two choices doesn't make the game more challenging, it makes it less fun and more expensive.

    As I have said, many times, if something critical to PvP dropped ONLY in Trammel, at a champ spawn where anyone with a murder count could not enter, the wailing and whining would shatter glass for miles around every Felucca player's house.

    b) You pretty much give away your prejudiced opinion on this topic by throwing around terms like "carebear." That is pretty much only a term of contempt used by PvP players who, I might point out, are NEVER shy, in any game I play, to whine and demand things to support THEIR playstyle, but start making derisive remarks about "nerfy carebear land" when PvM'ers equally would like their playstyle to be supported without having to convert to being PvP'ers.
     
  35. Wakiza

    Wakiza Guest

    Seige was heavily populated pre-aos.. not really sure where you are getting your facts. It only died off when costly items became more important then skill.

    K.
     
  36. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    It has lost population only in proportion to how EVERY shard has lost population. There are fewer UO players period, and of UO players, always only a minority fraction were SP* players.

    I never said SP never had more players... I said it never had widespread appeal. A majority of UO players have never touched SP. Do you care to dispute that, or are you just intentionally misrepresenting my point?

    To say "Siege has few people now" and "Trammel only shard would not have people" is apples and chicken breasts, frankly.
     
  37. Wakiza

    Wakiza Guest

    Why would you have to buy gold online?? Are you saying there is no money to be made in Trammel? The one thing you can't get in trammel is driving you nuts.
     
  38. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Ah, now I see you are just a troll, misrepresenting points on purpose.

    By all means, try to build a character when 120 scrolls cost 16, 24, 32 million gold or more apiece, and you may need more than one 120 scroll (in fact you almost assuredly will) in order to optimize even a PvM only character. Half the people who claim to be making that much per day just by artie farming are lying. The other half probably already got all their 120 scrolls, bought gold and/or are unemployed and IDOC all day. As to the rest of us...

    IMHO power scrolls are a craptastic addition to the game. They should never have been added, least of all in exclusive drops that only one facet would control. However, they are here, and pretending like "stay in Trammel and u got no probs, carebear" is an acceptable solution for a complete PvM playstyle is being intellectually dishonest.

    By the way.... your logic.... is flawed.
     
  39. Wakiza

    Wakiza Guest

    I'm not trolling or misrepresenting anything. I'm trying to understand why you are trying to tell us you have to buy gold with RL cash, just so you can buy powerscrolls. There are a ton of ways to make money in trammel.

    16, 24, 32 million? Exaggarration i hope. Who are you buying from? The highest priced powerscroll tends to be magery @ around 15 mil. Most others are 5 mil range or less.
     
  40. I have no problem with the devs putting up an all Tram shard.

    I wouldn't play on it...but I have no problem with it. It does not affect me.
     
  41. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    A Tram only shard wouldn't have Champ Spawns (except in Ilsh), Power Scrolls, or Factions. Those are all part of the Felucca ruleset.
     
  42. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
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    Re: Can we make an all Tram shard?

    Sure we could, and would I play there? ............ In a shot. I wouldn't even care about extra lag.

    I would love to play on a shard that was not corrupted by a false economy and without the need to deal with a lot (not all) of the pvp mentality players. You only have to note the 'tone' of this style of player when referring to those who prefer the Trammel ruleset and playstyle as 'trammies' 'carebears' and all the other type of language used to denigrate those who do not wish to partake in pvp.

    My ideal Trammel shard would include:


    * Absolutely NO Transfers, you wish to play it, create a character and play. The ability to transfer shards with multiple items is the total cause of butchered economies and greed, makes the 'cheats' who script farm and 'deliver' their gold/items to whatever shard, easy as, promotes the farming of powerscrolls and other 'rare' items from the smaller to larger shards. Stops the loss of rare items from events, thus devaluing the 'history' of a shard for those who only do it for the xtransfer value. There was absolutely NO NEED to allow shard transfers. You want to 'play' a different shard, create your chars and play.

    * No Felucca, but with those aspects of Felucca missing from Trammel put into Trammel, ie the champ spawns into Lost Lands trammel, dungeon Khaldun etc Other than a few game aspects Felucca does not need to 'exist'. One world would be great.

    * 2 characters per account. So you have a choice of a crafter/combat, or play two crafters or two combat eg tamer and thief, mage and paladin etc. The fact that everyone couldn't have one of 'everything' would encourage player to player trade of all types of items and bring back a community that depended on 'others' if they wanted 'everything' in game. I don't believe 1 character per account is enough as it basically rules out 50% of game content depending on which template you elect to play and would so limit game play experience on a personal enjoyment level. So while everyone 'could' technically have a crafter, there is still room for a variety of 'crafter' types as not all crafting/gathering skills will fit on one template. ie tailor, smith, carpenter (incl masonry), tinker, miner, lumberjack, inscriber, fletcher, alchemist (inc glassblowing), arms lore (for improved crafting), fishing, cartographer, lockpicking etc. Especially if a 'recall' type skill is needed to get around as most crafters devote at least 40-50 points to for ease of gameplay.

    Unfortunately on our existing shards, 'soul stones' have basically made it so every character can have any skill, any time, assuming that they have trained it up once and have the soulstones, however a shard created now would only allow one soulstone per account as a 1st yr vet reward, account bound, which would pretty much eliminate this. The impact of previous soulstone and soul stone fragment issues as exist on the current shards would be non existant.

    WHY

    Firstly it would take UO back to being a 'community' as it was intended, and get rid of this 'us' and 'them' mentality between pvm and pvp playstyles.

    Secondly, we currently have seige (pvp) and the other shards (pvm/pvp mixed) there is no shard that has the seige type transfer rules that is without the pvp content.

    It would be fantastic to be able to start on a shard that wasn't full of highly inflated prices due to cheats, pvp playstyle monopolies, xtransfered items creating imbalance and making overinflated 'rare' prices.

    I wouldn't care if it was dble resources or not, as whichever would be 'equal' to all players, and those who work hard gathering would be rewarded and it would not depend on 'where' you do it.

    It would be great to play on a shard where risk v reward was equal to all players. ie, If I do a peerless with 3 people the 'risk' is greater than doing it with 6 people, but the reward is split 3 ways rather than 6 etc.

    If I wanted to play 'factions' and allow some 'player v player' content into my game then I could. But it would be by choice, not a pvp playstyle forced on me by limiting some 'items' to a facet where pvp combat is the only option if you want those items.

    This fallacy that having felucca is 'risk v reward' has always made me laugh. The so called 'risk' is so one sided against the pvm'er needing to compete against a seasoned pvp'er that the idea is ludicrous. It has and always will be minimal risk to the pvp player as opposed to much higher risk for those not interested in that playstyle. And I say 'not interested' not 'not capable' as there is a subtle difference. A pvp player is geared up to play that style, generally has all combat spells in macros and specific combinations which are only designed for ONE thing, totally different to the required 'set up' for pvm players with different settings/requirements in their macro/template/item choices etc. It is like putting a person in a rollerskating rink who has spent years skating each and every day with a person who skates once a year and saying the 'risk' of a fall is equal. LMAO.

    As for the continuous chants of 'risk v reward' by the pvp set who think that 'if us trammies' want powerscrolls, dble resources etc we should face the 'risk' of being pk'd and robbed from, well my question is 'who said?' If I want all my 'risk' to be against pvm monsters why not? ......... Who 'said' you only have "proper" risk with pvp? NO ONE. It is just an existing game mechanic. The ONLY reason you hear this so often from the pvp 'set' is because they know that the risk to them against those who do not pvp is minimal. So the so called 'risk' is only on one side of the equation and on that basis their ability to control some of the aspects of the game eg powerscrolls, their ability to get 'fame', 'item drop rates' and resources at double the trammel rate is much 'easier' for them when they don't have to 'compete' with the majority, as the majority prefer NOT to bother with the pvp playstyle. The fact that they have their 'compliment' of 'blues' so that they can then 'sell' these easier obtained rewards in the Trammel ruleset is the thing that causes the imbalance. IMO if you have one 'red' char on your account, NONE of your chars should be able to enter Trammel. See all the cries you would get then. Where is the 'risk' when you all play 'blues' as well as 'reds' pfft. The real 'risk' would then be ok, play a 'red' and get those 'extra' benefits for being in fel, but lose the ability to play in Trammel.

    You don't hear of many (any?) trammel pvm'ers speedhacking and using third party programs to chug pots, cut all trees to stumps, using item and blessed item 'bugs', using insta targetting and casting while running 'cheats'. 90% of the complaints on this board are due to these so called 'elite' pvp players and guilds and the use of these cheats. Sheesh, you even have the 'honest' pvp players complaining about what 'seems' to be the majority of pvp use of these illegal programs. How many times do we read 'if you can't beat them join them' put up by these players. In all my time reading these boards I don't think I have ever once seen someone complaining about a pvm'er using third party programs to speedhack against a demon or dragon, nor to use them to chug pots, heal with aids etc etc

    Lastly, I would be able to play on a shard where the dev's didn't reward this type of player by continually trying to 'force' me into a pvp playstyle just to give them additional thrills in a one sided battle. I am so sick of the dev's putting content and items at greater 'drop rates' or 'fel only' into an area that means if you want to 'compete' you have to go there or 'miss out' or 'get less' for your time and energy.

    I bet it would be really interesting to see how well a trammel only shard would be received. I for one would love it and to have the chance to play UO on a shard free of xtransfers and all the above unbalanced corrupted systems would be heaven.
     
  43. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I would play an all Trammel shard. :)
     
  44. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    oh come on ppl this is the idea that would allow them to close down 80% of the shards since all the trammies would move to this new candyland and all the fellies with a backbone would fianally go to siege and best of all The populations would be big on both!! I would have a cha on it but i do also have one on siege and mugen so it could be good.

    but on the other side of the coin to many vets with all sorts of crap cluttering countless homes on shards that see little activity would Raise hell if they ever did try to close a shard.

    I say delete it all and start fresh just have a good excuse ready to deny they did it on purpose!!
     
  45. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Why should someone make an all-Trammel-shard, when it is much easier to move the powerscrolls to Trammel altogether?

    It is the powerscroll-monopoly you're talking about, not the fact that there's a Felucca on the same shard. It would be stupid to create a new shard and split the community once again, when the problem is only the monopoly of PK guilds on powerscrolls.

    I am convinced that splitting the world into Trammel and Felucca was one of the biggest mistakes in UO. Taking out the risk of being murdered destroyed an important feature of this game. They should have thought of other ways to solve the rampant PKing.

    P.S.: I do not go to Felucca (because of out-of-control cheating), but I NEVER would leave my shard.
     
  46. Dianera

    Dianera Guest

    Well said MissEcho. I'd play on an all Tram shard if it was offered and never look back.
     
  47. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    yes indeed, MissEcho put a very good post together. It's well worth reading, even though it's a bit long :)
     
  48. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Yep, luckily you don't have to farm champ spawns for ages to get the right scrolls for you chars. Champions everytime drop 20:s and you get to choose which ones you want.

    C'mon, you make the money in tram for the right scrolls a lot faster then you get the right scrolls by making champs...
     
  49. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I can't even begin to tell you how much I disagree with you on this point.

    Game after game from the dawn of MUDs has proven that unrestricted PKing in a non-PvP game will always decay into griefing and game destruction. And yet somehow this lesson keeps having to be relearned over and over.
     
  50. I agree with this 100%.