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Discussion in 'UHall' started by longshanks, Feb 25, 2010.
i don't know about the rest of you but i'm getting claustrophobic down in that cave.
I couldn't agree more!
Why not let the challenge of getting anything stay a challenge?
Is it not?
I mean, is it not simply a matter of luck and accumulated "points"?
I love a challange . BUT spending over 100 hours without getting anything kind of take the edge out of it . Needs some kind of improvement i think . either higher % drop or shorter respawn time .
And ofc now i got tangle . Helps to complain sometimes ...
Then how does the system work?
When people respond like that it always makes me wonder if they somehow feel they developed the system. lol.
That's a loaded question. On the great Uhall if anyone asks for anything to be change they are often labelled a whiner or something to that extent.
The problem I see isn't that people don't want a challenge. I believe the problem to be effort vs reward. Many people are willing to put out an amount of effort they feel warrants the reward they seek. There is a point, and each person is different on this, that the reward is no longer worth the continued effort. Is it the fault of the person for giving up or is the system at fault?
I can't count the number of people I know that completely gave up on DOOM because they never got a drop. Not for lack or trying or commitment. Then there were the people who got something everytime they went.
Another problem is the doom system. It exists and people like it. When another drop is added(or tweaked in this case) people will always compare it to that or to the tokuno system.
Challenge with no reward quickly becomes frustration.
You have the same chance of drop as everyone else on each one. It doesn't matter wether you've done 1000 and someone else has only done 1 on the next one you still will both have the same chance. Which means some people can quite easily never get one, like the original system in Doom, people went years without drops, while other people would get several.
You don't need to have developed it to see how something works.
If it was working like Doom currently does, which is what Hawkeye was questioning, which is what I was replying to, then most people would have one by now and they wouldn't still be 75m+.
But a lot of people will continue to hunt these items under the current system, so they must think the reward warrents the effort they are putting forth. Some do and some don't, should we always bend to the wills of those who do not feel they are getting the reward they deserve, While others are perfectly content with the way things are? A majority of this game is far to easy and they do tend to make things easier.
(I like the current doom system, and do not mind if everything is based on this system...in fact I would even agree to the petitioner that the new drops need to be on that system but my above points still stand )
you "see" how it works yet you say it falsely
it does in fact work on points and luck, it is just not fairly based. All drop systems work the same, they are only more modified or less modified. The drops from SA work the same as the drops from ML, but those too are based on points and luck, they are just not modified in a way that x points guarantee a drop, or perhaps x is so high it really wouldn't matter. What you "see" is not a base argument for how it works when things can work in far different ways than how they seem to work.
Either way you response was vague at best the first time, hence my comment. You simply said "no" sure his question was very simple but you offered no basis for your statement.
Edit: You edited your post....so I will reply to it with you are correct. But my comment was made on your "no" he clearly was asking how is it if not like that and all you said was "no" as I pointed out before this edit there was no basis for your answer originally.
I didn't need a basis for saying no, he asked a very specific question "is it not working like doom?"... no it doesn't work like doom. (if it did I, and most people, would have one by now.)
And as for the first part about saying it falsely, you're trying to credibly say to me that I can't say how something works without having developed it, then go on to say how - you think - it works yourself? I can, however, credibly say that I have done well over 100 Navreys, many Slashers (50ish) & many Medusa (20ish) to an extent that I can see it is not working like Doom. (& thats by no means a lot compared to some people, but its enough)
Doom system? Maybe for Stygain dragon/Medusa, but for Navery and Slasher? No. For them, you don't have to complete a "quest" you just walk in when you want to kill her...
Drop rate increased? Eh... I'm kind of weary of this... if they increase it by too much, everything the "bosses" drop becomes devalued.
But there is a fine line with grinding... and people doing minimal damage getting rewards... Probably best thing we can hope they will do is increasing the damage needed to get looting rights and arty rights for those creatures...
/signed too hehe
I've been there for 5 days now and nodda...At least some half decent loot would be nice, too often I get 150 gold and a arrow and a bolt and some junk.
I am 100% behind a Doom based point system for these four SA bosses that have the new special drops. I would like to see Niporaelm buffed and added as a fifth boss. I would also like all of the items to possibly drop off every boss. Right now there is some sort of unique and shared drop system like the replicas.
I am all for challenge, but I would like to see some sort of certainty of a reward eventually (even if it is a really long time). Right now it is pure luck. Personally, that is why I liked the Treasures of Tokuno system. You got an indication of progression at a decent time interval (receipt of minor artifact). Once you collected enough you got an item of greater value of your choosing by trading those lesser items in. I wish they would have done a minor/major system like that for SA. I would gladly trade in the dozen Standards of Chaos (which I keep getting over and over) for one of the new items.
How is killing maybe 10 creatures to get a little globe thingy considered a Quest?
They way that is typed it makes it sound like it takes a long time to get the 4 required globes/whatever the heck the medusa things are called.
Just want to be clear, you can kill maybe 20 creatures in the spawns to get the 4 reuired items. Definatly not a "Quest"
I sort of like the replica drop system, it gives more incentive to do each boss, or puts harder to obtain items on harder to fight monsters. If it was balanced enough it would be a better system than just having all bosses drop all items since then all you have to do is fight the easiest boss until it drops what you are looking for (in a points driven system it would be to easy basically) of course maybe everything is already to easy to fight, or the rewards are not linked properly but that goes back to it needing to be balanced enough. Just my opinion here, agree with making it a more points driven system tho.
His question was very specific and your answer was wrong, it is luck and points. he said "is it not?" then said "I MEAN is it not just luck and points?" so saying no is only half right.
And I did not give my opinion, I didn't say "I think it works like this" because it has to work like that, yes very simply has to.
Again, my first comment was to the fact that you said "no" when the answer is not just "no" from his first post I had already known what he was asking, notice how I quoted his second post asking how it works then? I didn't quote your post, in fact I didn't really care about your post, it was his need to post a second that I was commenting on, and while yes you are the implied person I am talking about I never said you, I said people because alot think like that and give answers like that. All drop systems are based on points and luck, just maybe not in the way he was thinking. Altho he never asked if its not "working like doom" his specific question was "is not just all points and luck".
I have no desire to argue with you so I will just leave it at this. And I did edit my post stating you are correct that you could go forever and not get one.
i vote for the Doom type of drop system.
You could even make it so that points granted are less, so that there is more of a "challenge".
3 weeks, multiple characters all doing max amounts of damage (not some little drop in farmer).....nada.
I am all for the Doom system.
standing around 5-10 minutes between pops is not a challenge, its just poor game design. I would advocate for either increasing the drop rate or decreasing the delay between fights. The OPs idea would help too, but we'd still be standing around more of the time than fighting, and its hard to see how that meets anyone's definition of challenging.
No it wasn't and no it isn't.
Regardless of wether you post the words 'think', 'know' or, 'pulled out of', it is still just your opinion, and saying I don't know because I'm not a dev, then posting what you 'know', or very simply 'think', just makes you a hypocrite.
Yes it is.
You quoted him asking me a question.
No, they're not, only Doom is.
I guess I shouldn't post that I have gotten 3 tangles so far. I haven't got any other drops but I do seem to lucky at getting tangles. I just use a stop watch and log on my second account every 15mins and help kill it. It right around 900 secs.
That's not the point, point is you have to do something extra. Didn't say it was hard, didn't say it was long, I said it was something extra. That warrants a little something something for the farmers. You see, you can farm a creature that just respawns a LOT faster than you can farm a creature you have to do quests for.
Perhaps someone should think things out before posting, giving all of them doom would just make camping navery that much more common.
It's closer to 15 minutes. My game time is limited, and waiting like such, it passes fast. The only benefit to the current spawn time is, it allows you to get up and take care of a real life issue, if need be.
Im for a Doom style drop. Devaluation has nothing to do with anything, unless you're in this to farm and sell.
I like it like this...
chit chat for 15 minutes... then some pvm by the side of a greater dragon.
... then a 1% of a drop.
(some would say less due to the number of players there divinding the total %)
We get to know alot of people... make new friend...
Thank you devs for creating a ANTI-STRESS room in Ultima Online!
This is truly risk vs reward!
A little higher drop rate would be nice ive been down there almost every day ive killed over 100 now and nadda.... as for the loot i dont even bother looking.
Going on 5 days, all day long, and the only thing I have to show for it are a few spider carapaces, a dozen ichor, a couple of tomes, and 1 FC 1 ring. Something needs to give here, because this really sucks.
Givin that the respawn time for navery is 15 mins you seriously think you can't get the 4 orbs required for the dragon in that time?
I have done my fair share of the fairy dragon spawn outside the dragon and you can easily get 12 to 20 orbs in 15 mins.
Then the advantage is dragon every time, so why don't people do it every time? Hmmm? Could it be Navery's easy to get to? You just sit in her room until she spawns? Because you DON'T have to do a quest? Because she's PROBABLY easier? (haven't done either since they changes to stats so I dunno who's easier). I mean really come on, you're just making this easy for me now.
Yes Navery is easier. But that is not the point of this thread or the point of my last post.
Navrey just needs to spawn faster, it doesn't need a Doom drop system. If they do that they should just add in a feature that items can just randomly pop in your pack. Bank sit for 23 hours and you might get lucky.
Basing it on the doom system makes the drops more predictable and fair, not less challenging.
The virtue drops are also based on points (and Treasures of Tokuno was... and I vaguely remember the Ilshenar drop system being changed as well, but I could be wrong on that one).
All drop systems for any non-standard loot should be based on points and luck... makes things more fair and predictable.
So far I've been in on 123 Navrey's. A few I've solo'd. Yet even with this large of a number, I have yet to see a single thing. This isn't challenging in the least, it's frustrating if anything. That's not the way to program parts of the game. This is the same reason why Doom turned into a ghost town. People killed hundreds upon hundreds of bosses and never got a drop because of the **** poor RNG in UO. Navrey is going to end up the same way.
Yes it is, easier = lower drop rate, I'm not saying it should be as low as it is, but a doom system would make the arties way too common, think long run for once.
The drops absolutely should be on a points system. I have to laugh at the Devs on this. For some time now, they have been trying to make all things in game affordable for everyone and balance out the uo economy. Now they decide to make these new items that seemingly never drop, except for certain people, plus the idea of spending all day at a spawn to kill a handful of monsters is ridiculous. Its nothing but a time sink and by far, way worst than Doom ever was. At least in Doom it kept ya busy going room to room. Way to go guys on creating a good thing and then ruining it. No wonder people quit playin this game