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Carefully on tiptoe stealing...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Prince Caspian, Sep 14, 2009.

  1. As I've posted several times before, I enjoy skulking around Felucca with my Ninja, seeing what kind of mischief I can get in...

    In a PATENTLY boneheaded move (one of the worst ones ever in my UO career), I managed to eighty-six my grandmaster hiding skill on my Ninja by botching a soulstone transfer. So I then had 85 Stealth and 0 Hiding. Neat, eh?

    It took me a long time, but I'm back up to 94 Hiding. But my Stealth has never increased a single digit. This despite stealthing around for hundreds of hours. I've tried toggling karma lock, fiddling with the Skill Up/Down/Lock icon and so forth. But nothing. I'm stuck at 85, same as at generation (this was an advanced character).

    Here's the theories I have:

    A - The character is in an odd state because he has 85 in a skill which required a prerequisite skill, which was at 0.

    B - My attire is preventing the advancement... I'm wearing a chainmail shirt, samurai helm and leggings of embers.

    Any other ideas?
     
  2. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    You should at least get 0.1 gain each day through the Guaranteed Gaining System on a successful stealthing attempt, no matter what kind of armor you wear.
    Did you mark the skill as rising?
     
  3. Yeah, that was my reasoning as well. After all, every day with Oroku, the second I hit the hide macro, I usually get the Hiding increase. However, when I stealth ("You begin to move quietly"), nothing.

    And I am sure the skill is set to gain. Checked it in SA and 2d clients. And I have the points available (hence the hiding gain).

    At this point I'm thinking maybe I should lock every single skill except Stealth (85.0) and Mining (0.0), and then set Stealth down and mining up, and whittle my Stealth down to 84 and see if that kicks it back into gain mode...
     
  4. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I could be wrong, but I think it's UO's system of graduated best gains. I think you are wearing too much to gain stealth with (or not enough if it's mage armor), and need to wear some studded or ringmail armor.
     
  5. GM studded armor with no helm or anything on your head.
    Stealth around at the bank or some such location as to have folks have a chance of "detecting" you.
    If you need a place for this action, try luna bank.
    Yeah I know its tramms, but sometimes ya just gotta say wth!!
    At 95, then add gm closed helm to get to 100 stealth and beyond if needed.
     
  6. Ru TnT

    Ru TnT Seasoned Veteran
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    is your chainmail tunic mage armor? if it is, you might want to try mixing a piece or two of non-mage armor into your suit to get a gain.
     
  7. jaraxlebaenrae

    jaraxlebaenrae Journeyman
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    Dont you get the GGS off the first skill you use thats set to raise? If so lock hiding then hide and start to stealth and you should get the gain.
     
  8. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    Are you logging in hidden? Sounds like your GGS is going to hiding not stealth if you aren't.
     
  9. Hm... there's an idea. I havent tried logging in hidden.

    But still -- I've gotten both GGS gains in Necromancy AND Spirit Speak when casting one spell with my Necro....
     
  10. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    The problem as i see it is that you are not in the armour range to gain.

    From the armour you stated you will have 110% success(theoretically) stealth rate.

    75 in all mage armour is 100% stealth, so if you only wear medeable armour you will very rarely gain.

    You need to do as the above poster stated, use full NON MEDEABLE studded armour with no helm. You should then gain, at the moment its like a 115mage trying to gain of magic arrow!
     
  11. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Stealth is one of the more funny skills (gain-wise). It still needs the old requirements for gaining. (Mainly increased stealth difficulty for wearing armour that gave dex-penaltys before AOS.)
     
  12. Thanks for the input guys! It leads me to a pretty straightforward plan of action.... tonight I'm gonna strip Oroku down to robes and then try to Stealth around. If the equipment is the issue (sounds like it is), I should get at least a .1 bump after a few minutes or so.
     
  13. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I have a character with GM hiding on an account that finally hit its four year anniversary, giving enough room to add another 5.0 in stealthing. With jewels on, her stealthing is at 86.0; without jewels, it's 78. When I want her to work on stealthing or at least get a stealthing GGS, I put her in the following combination of armor: Baseinet (looted piece), studded gorget (looted), studded hiro sode (looted), and studded leggings (another piece of loot). She's also still carrying her normal Boomstick and a verite bronze shield with spell channeling, as well as sandals and a pair of Transparent Heart earrings. No cloak or outer layer of clothing. She also still has her stealthing jewelry on.

    I just log her in hidden and have her walk a few steps and she generally gets a stealthing GGS right away.
     
  14. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I'm not quite following your logic here.
    People are theorising that you're wearing stuff that's too easy to stealth in, so you're not getting a skill check.
    Removing all your items isn't going to make it harder.

    Try putting on a single non-medable piece, even a pair of studded gloves without the [mage armour] property. and you should see gains, because there is a chance to fail, and therefore a skill check.

    Also, if you go to the Ter Mur place, and do the Mystic's quest with the "knowledge" reward, the Crystal Ball of Knowledge you get will help you get better gains
     
  15. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Agreed completely except on too points.

    1) im not theorising :p I know thats the reason he isnt gaining...having trained about 3thieves.

    2) at 85 with 1 piece of non mage armour there is no chance of failure. Its based on the weight of the non medeable armour against the skill and number of steps (as far as i know). So unless that one piece weighs over 9stones it will be success, then its every 8 steps until the next check.
     
  16. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Are you entirely sure on that one?
    It's been a while since I trained a stealther (and hopefully it'll be even longer until I have to do so again), but using the skill tutor statuette and verifying my gains, I seem to recall only needing to wear a single piece.

    I didn't look into it exhaustively, but the overal weight of things didn't seem to make a difference.
    I know it used to, but I figured it was something that was dumbed down, probably around AoS, to be more mechanically simplistic.
     
  17. Sarsmi

    Sarsmi Grand Poobah
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    Go buy some plate arms and put those on in lieu of your normal arms, then get a successful stealth check and you'll get a gain from your GGS. I've trained up many stealthers. :thumbsup:

    BTW for GGS you can get a GGS gain off of every skill you have that you successfully use and has not had a gain within it's GGS time range. So if you are training many characters on many shards a good method is to write down who/what and then log them in and get their .1 in every skill you are trying to train up then move to the next char etc. This method it may take 2 years to GM skills, but by golly you'll have GM chars on all the shards!
     
  18. As an update.... I tried stripping all armor, and stealthing. No difference.

    So I paged. And for the first time in like 5 years, I actually had a positive experiene paging for GM help...

    So text appears at the base of the screen from GM Soulrais, greeting me and telling me that he's having a look at my skills. We try several things, including turning every single skill except Stealth downward, but still nothing works.

    Finally after about 15 minutes of trying various things, he suggested that I submit a bug, which I did.

    Something new I will try tonight is to soulstone the stealth, and then soak it back in and see if that helps...
     
  19. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Why are you ignoring the help here? Those of us who know are telling you that you need to wear some non-meditate armor. You are at a 100% success right now with anything that allows you to meditate, so you are getting no skill check. This is how stealth works. From this point on, to gain, you need to practice stealthing while wearing increasing amounts of heavier, non mage, armor. Studded or heavier.
     
  20. Um, I tried that. Leather arms and gorget only. No gain. Plus, no clothes at all and no GGS.
     
  21. kill yourself, No really i have had issues with skills "locking" per say. I kill myself and it kinda resets the system.
     
  22. Yeah, I've noticed sometimes that does set things right. However, being my Felucca Stealther/Thief, as you can imagine, Oroku has taken plenty of dirtnaps in his time, and it still didn't reset.

    I think I have an actual bug here... and I get the feeling it may have had something to do with the GGS being prevented by my 0 Hiding skill back in the day.

    Anyhow, I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming that it is in fact a system problem due to these factors:
    1 - Per the GGS gain system, I should gain a .1 each day in a non-capped skill that I am using after a short period of time.
    2 - I was not wearing any armor whatsoever, so its not an equipment issue.
    3 - My other skills (Hiding, for instance) gain regularly by the GGS.
    4 - I have like 90 total points pointed downward in the Skills page.
     
  23. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Leather is meddable...
    Wearing less would make it easier. You don't want it easier to get gains, you want it harder.

    edit: Studded, or plate.
    Anything without the mage armour property.

    If you try meditating, and it doesn't give the "regenerative forces cannot penetrate your armour" then you're going to get 100% success above 80 (or 75?), which will not get you a GGS gain. There needs to be a chance of failure.
     
  24. Ken of Napa

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    Like everyone is saying, what you're doing now is TOOO easy to stealth in. What I do is wear npc bought platemail arms, then when I stop gaining with that I add npc bought chainmail. Then you can add npc bought plate helm.

    By doing it this way you actually get a skill check. If you keep stealthing with leather armour or no clothes you will never get a skill check.

    Hope this helps ;)
     
  25. Guys,

    Oroku wears platemail leggings, chainmail shirt and a samurai helm.

    I successfully stealth with him ALL the time.

    GGS should have kicked in, correct? It sure has for Hiding. Regardless of med or not to med, the fact remains I have successfully stealthed with a load of heavy armor. Please explain how I am exempt from a GGS bump.
     
  26. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    If you successfully stealth with him all the time, without fail, then no, because of the aforementioned "no chance to fail".
    If you fail sometimes (non-med at 90 skill should probably be about 25% of checks), then you should get GGS, and chances to gain with every check.
     
  27. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    Leggings of Embers and Ancient Samurai Helm are medable no? Try putting on some NPC bought alternatives without the Mage Armour property and see if that helps.
     
  28. Ok folks, when I log on tonight, I'll go buy a regular ol' platemail arms and chainmail tunic from an NPC vendor, put them on Oroku, and try to stealth with just those on.

    Call me a pessimist, but I don't think this is gonna make any difference.

    If it does, I'll log on and take on The Shredder of Veils solo with a Shepherd Crook.
     
  29. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I want to watch!
     
  30. Oh I'll get pictures.
     
  31. I went to Luna. Picked up a set of platemail arms. Stripped Oroku to the underroos, slapped on the platemail arms, hid... and stealthed... and what do I see...

    Your skill in Stealth has raised .1. It is now 85.1.
    Your skill in Blacksmithy has dropped .1. It is now 16.4.


    :O

    Also, imagine my surprise when for the first time since I can remember when I was FAILING stealth checks...

    Kimmy and Co... you guys were right. Apparently, the chainmail (Keeonen's), the platemail legs (embers) and the helmet (ancient samurai helm) are ALL Mage Armor. As someone posted, it was like trying to get Legendary Mage by just casting Magic Arrow... at a point it won't increase if its too easy, GGS or not.

    So now I gotta fight the Slasher tonight with a shepherd crook. Oh boy.
     
  32. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I eagerly await those screenies :D

    Also, I'm glad you got it sorted :)
     
  33. Noobish Noob

    Noobish Noob Guest

    Kind of sad that the GM didn't understand the basic game mechanics and explain this all to you in the first place. Would have saved you a ton of time and hassle. Probably plays WoW instead.
     
  34. To be frank, that's why I was so skeptical this would actually work. If the GM didn't think of it -- ostensibly someone who is an expert at the game -- what does that say? I mean this seems pretty elementary (tho granted I didn't figure it out on my lonesome either...)