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Cash Out News

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. Nice to know, thanks for posting this! [​IMG]
     
  2. Yea it was so hard to ask any questions in that place. It seems like it changed ever since the merges and free accounts.

    I'm also going to be posting the highlights from the meeting on the Herald tomorrow.


    -Sean Kendrick (aka Xander Hill [​IMG])
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is great to hear, and I hope will calm the fears of those that have said they doubt if cash out will *ever* make it in the game. That two month mark is past the 'magic deadline' of knowing the fate of TSO/EAL, which is what I remember thinking to myself would probably have to pass before cash out was enabled, on top of the bugs that Parizad spoke of, so this pretty much makes sense and was to be expected, IMO.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    what i would like to know is specifically what will the cash out feature give us.

    Knowing EA, an assumption i come up with is you get game time for your money. but this could be different. I saw no info on the EAL site, so has anything even been said?
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Cash out = You sell your simoleans to EA for real life money. I don't believe an exchange rate has been set.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    okay i figured thats what it was gonna be, but ea in the past has been greedy (if any of you own an ea game for the 360 or ps3 you know what i mean)

    but anyways thanks for the quick reply. i appreciate it
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The only thing that would sense for the cash out feature is when the player decides to stop playing the game all together and in some form get his/hers money back. Other than that....totally useless.
     
  8. Mystic Kitty

    Mystic Kitty Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The only thing that would sense for the cash out feature is when the player decides to stop playing the game all together and in some form get his/hers money back. Other than that....totally useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Or someone could make enough money pizzaing to pay for their subscription. [​IMG]
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The only thing that would sense for the cash out feature is when the player decides to stop playing the game all together and in some form get his/hers money back. Other than that....totally useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Or someone could make enough money pizzaing to pay for their subscription. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would not count on cash out being anywhere near equal to the 989 simolean to $1 USD currently to buy simoleans, so given the current payouts, one would have to work pretty hard to earn $10 USD per month using the cash out feature. Not meaning to rain on parades, but just don't want to create false hopes that this is a real possibility. Looking at it from EA's standpoint it would be silly for them to do this, since it would eat away the profits they SO badly need from TSO/EAL for the next few months to pull it out of the red. *Maybe* in the distance future, but I once heard a saying that fits here.......those who count their chickens before they hatch might wind up with scrambled eggs. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    cash out being anywhere near equal to the 989 simolean to $1 USD

    It will have to be close enough to prevent arbitrage from being practiced. How much will people give up in safety to gain a better exchange rate from a stranger?

    A question for anyone - What is the current cash-out rate offered by strangers?
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would doubt that the difference between buy and sell values would be any more than about 25%. There are 2 reasons why, the 1st being as just said in the above post. There are at least a few well established websites with what would already be quite a large customer base from previous years. These people would still have enough trust from people in the game to do a fair amount of business and would only build it further with time. The larger the transaction, the more likely these guys would get the business because the more the customer would gain from the difference in prices between them and EA
    To large a difference in the buy and sell values leaves it open for EA to be undercut by these guys without any need to make any simoleans themselves.
    The other reason is the custom content production that EA is so determine to get moving would suffer, the more difference between the 2 values, the harder it would be for outside developers to make a decent return on their work. EA knows that they can't be to greedy here, Lee has mentioned, fair be it a while back now, that 15% would be fair.
    The other thing I have to add here is that I do not believe for 1 second that a bug is holding up the release of buybacks for 2 months.
     
  12. Ya. I would say it is more of a design problem than a bug: How to design a cash-out system that doesn't simply allow people to play at EA's expense (instead of the other way round [​IMG]. I haven't come up with anything that does not gut the job and job object payouts, but if I think of something, I'll let y'all know.

    CherryBomb
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Pardon my ignorance.

    What is "arbitrage"?
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The other thing I have to add here is that I do not believe for 1 second that a bug is holding up the release of buybacks for 2 months.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Nor do I.
    More likely it is exactly what they said originally - to try to forestall the automatic generation of simoleons by bots. And since that is a tough nut to crack....
    It is also why they have the payouts set so low - to try to slow them down or even discourage them.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thank you fo posting this [​IMG]
     
  16. <blockquote><hr>

    Pardon my ignorance.

    What is "arbitrage"?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    It is making a profit from the price differences of two separate markets. You buy in one and sell in the other and make a risk free profit. Try Googling it.
     
  17. I'm almost sure the system will closely resemble the Linden Exchange used by SL where the buy/sell rates fluctuate depending on the amount of ingame money available. It's the only logical way to handle it.

    BTW CherryBomb, I think I know you from IH. I was Arwen Undomiel. [​IMG]
     
  18. Mystic Kitty

    Mystic Kitty Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The only thing that would sense for the cash out feature is when the player decides to stop playing the game all together and in some form get his/hers money back. Other than that....totally useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Or someone could make enough money pizzaing to pay for their subscription. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would not count on cash out being anywhere near equal to the 989 simolean to $1 USD currently to buy simoleans, so given the current payouts, one would have to work pretty hard to earn $10 USD per month using the cash out feature. Not meaning to rain on parades, but just don't want to create false hopes that this is a real possibility. Looking at it from EA's standpoint it would be silly for them to do this, since it would eat away the profits they SO badly need from TSO/EAL for the next few months to pull it out of the red. *Maybe* in the distance future, but I once heard a saying that fits here.......those who count their chickens before they hatch might wind up with scrambled eggs. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is a possibilty! I know ea rates will likely be much different than what other players buy for, but i would rather sell to another trusted player anyways... I say this IS possible because I have already done it. Ok put it this way.. I can make enough money pizzaing in a week (no, not pizzaing all day either..) to pay for my account every month. No i dont use bots, and yes i just used one sim. [​IMG]
     
  19. vapd3317

    vapd3317 Guest

    exactly Kitty.... using the ATM and spending 1 USD for less than 1000 Simoleons, means a 10 dollar USD purchase gets you what...approximately 9890 simoleons? Not even that based on previous threads I've seen.

    And people dont think that someone would sell them 20,000 simoleons for 10 bucks in rl money? More than twice the simoleons at the same price. ALOT of people have been and will continue to be playing for free. Those that built a reputation of selling them in the past will still have the customer base they had when everyone had millions. To assume otherwise is a mistake.

    So, maybe by the dropping of payouts, EA hopes to limit the player to player sales because it is harder to make money. Botters possibly aren't a big issue, because even a player that follows all rules in game, can make 5K to 10K each day if able to invest the time. Even at current payout rates.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The other thing I have to add here is that I do not believe for 1 second that a bug is holding up the release of buybacks for 2 months.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Nor do I.
    More likely it is exactly what they said originally - to try to forestall the automatic generation of simoleons by bots. And since that is a tough nut to crack....
    It is also why they have the payouts set so low - to try to slow them down or even discourage them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Just to let people know what EA has to face here.
    For them to be able to introduce the buybacks, the capabilities of producing simoleans in game have to be reduced to a very low level. So low in fact that a normal player will find it imposable to make any where near enough to play the game. With payouts even where they are now it is still possible to produce enough simoleans manually to justify your time if the buyback was set at set $1 per 800 simoleans. It would involve multiple accounts and some mad clicking of the mouse but can be done.
    Worse than that, I myself have the knowledge to be able to set my system up without any specifically developed botting software to do that automatically. If no prevention measures were in place I could set this system I am on now to run 24/7 running say 25 sims doing money objects, greening and all, completely un attended. Even with the payouts the way they are now this system would generate over 200k a day. If all 25 sims were maxed in a skill it would then take me about a day to get it going. Not only do I have the knowledge to do that but many others in this game do as well.
    Further to that it is no where near as hard to develop these bot programs as most of would think. Counter measures in a specifically designed bot program can easily be made to counter almost any detection systems EA employ.
    If you take all this into consideration EA without taking full and successful measures to prevent automated generation of simoleans, would have to lower the payouts to less than 5 simoleans per money object. That's with a sim with maxed skills. Even if they do prevent automated generation they would still have to lower payouts to less than 20 to make it not worth some teenage wiz kids time to sit at his computer and make about $5 an hour.
    Then if are were to look at thinsg really seriously, we have to consider places like China, there people are willing to work and will for as little as $1 an hour.
    So if you take all this into consideration you can see why I keep saying that payouts will continue to drop, and that there is at least a chance they may do away with money lots all together.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    exactly Kitty.... using the ATM and spending 1 USD for less than 1000 Simoleons, means a 10 dollar USD purchase gets you what...approximately 9890 simoleons? Not even that based on previous threads I've seen.

    And people dont think that someone would sell them 20,000 simoleons for 10 bucks in rl money? More than twice the simoleons at the same price. ALOT of people have been and will continue to be playing for free. Those that built a reputation of selling them in the past will still have the customer base they had when everyone had millions. To assume otherwise is a mistake.

    So, maybe by the dropping of payouts, EA hopes to limit the player to player sales because it is harder to make money. Botters possibly aren't a big issue, because even a player that follows all rules in game, can make 5K to 10K each day if able to invest the time. Even at current payout rates.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You have to understand too that there will be some players for whom the issue is not the reputation of said 3rd party vendor......it is the idea that if they are offering those $20k simoleans for $10, with all of us knowing how difficult money is to make in EAL and TC3, chances are pretty good that they are using a 3rd party body to obtain those simoleans, and I don't care if EA sells 1% of the simoleans for the same amount of money that those botters do, IF I was gonna spend RL money for in-game currency (which I have no intention of doing) EA'd get my money before a botter ever will since they are part of the reason that it is so difficult for the average sim to earn simoleans now, and there's no way that those sims can prove that they are *not* using a 3rd party bot, therefore I'd rather err on the side of not being part of the problem, myself, and I know that I am not alone in that thinking, though admitedly I do know I am most likely part of the minority that just want as much as they can get per RL $ that they spend.
     
  22. This is arbitrage in action, Donavan:

    I log in to EALand, where EA is selling simoleon for $10 for 10,000, and buying them for $1 for 10,000. I meet someone on his way to an ATM to sell 10,000 simoleons and say "Wait, wait! I'll give you TWO dollars for those." A rational person would sell to me instead of EA. Now, I turn around and meet someone on his way to an ATM to buy simoleons, and I offer to sell him 10,000 of them for $5 instead of $10. Again, a rational person would buy from me instead of EA. Now I have two satisfied customers, and $3 in my pocket.

    In this case, no customer with good market information would ever sell 10,000 simoleons to EA for $1. As long as the supply of simoleons generated in-game is high enough (and I assure you that right now it is), no customer with good market information would buy from EA, either.

    CherryBomb
     
  23. vapd3317

    vapd3317 Guest

    But it's really NOT that difficult to make money. Honestly, I do the job tracks and don't visit money houses, and in just a few hours of play made almost 3K. I simply don't understand how it is so hard to get ahead out here, but my sim makes a profit every day. It's really HOW you play that matters. I will go to work, go HOME to green so I don't feel obligated to tip anyone, then log that sim out until the next shift.

    True, I don't have the expenses of hosting, but that is a choice that others make which causes them to worry about feeding visitors or doing things for themselves.

    So maybe that will help you see how some of us have and do make money without the use of botting. But to think that the sellers must be using bots, may apply to some, but most definitely not to all.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    But it's really NOT that difficult to make money. Honestly, I do the job tracks and don't visit money houses, and in just a few hours of play made almost 3K. I simply don't understand how it is so hard to get ahead out here, but my sim makes a profit every day. It's really HOW you play that matters. I will go to work, go HOME to green so I don't feel obligated to tip anyone, then log that sim out until the next shift.

    True, I don't have the expenses of hosting, but that is a choice that others make which causes them to worry about feeding visitors or doing things for themselves.

    So maybe that will help you see how some of us have and do make money without the use of botting. But to think that the sellers must be using bots, may apply to some, but most definitely not to all.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, I just began the waitress job today on one sim, and that sim does not have max charm yet, but I did seem to make more on the job track today than I had at jamming (with much higher cooking than I have charm *and* max number of people jamming) yesterday, though I questioned myself as to whether or not this was psychological, since hands DOWN the job track is more fun to me, even having to deal with those who have never done the waitress job...if they refuse to listen, you just mute them and they do not follow you to work again, problem solved. I guess I am going to have to put pen to paper tomorrow and figure out whether or not one IS more profitable than the other, or if it is just a boredom factor, and also the nauseating drones of the sims lamenting the low payouts.....I notice that just does not happen with the job tracks, even though I only obtained one promotion today (from level 1 to level 2, did *maybe* 8 shifts since I did 2 extra after the promotion cuz I'd never seen that diner) and still only came out of the day with like $1100 simoleans. I'm hoping that as I get more proficient, and as I obtain charm points and promos that the pay scale will rise, and maybe I too within a couple weeks can make $3k a day after amnesty comes around and I can comfortably get at least 10.99 charm on top of my 8.00 creativity (sims are TICKLED to be serenaded!) and high cooking, ultimately 20.99 though with jamming on the back burner that priority *might* go down.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    In this case, no customer with good market information would ever sell 10,000 simoleons to EA for $1. As long as the supply of simoleons generated in-game is high enough (and I assure you that right now it is), no customer with good market information would buy from EA, either.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    For this reason and the reasons BiteMe gave are why I don't think EA buy back will work unless the faucets are set to a minimal drip, if not turned off completely as I said months ago. If all you play is the "money game" (like me currently) in EAL you can obtain and horde simoleans easily. If you're not spending simoleans, they add up fast.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *ttl*

    OK so we know there are 3rd party vendors, always has been. But lets look at it from a business standpoint. EA has waged battle aganst scammers and botters, whos to say blackmarket simolean sellers arent next on the list? Most businesses will go after anyone trying to rip them off. Much like Dali's story about her friend chasing people down to check their clothing tags. (I think that was Dali anyway) Companies do not like to lose revenue, at least none I ever worked for did. Blackmarket sales are nothing short of ripping off EA, its as simple as that.

    I hope people will play honestly but we all know they dont, if you ask me EA should prosecute to the full extent of the law. Lets remember that EA can see each and every transaction that happens within game, so sell 10k in simoleans and its flagged when you do the trade.

    I wont be risking my acct on this one either, but I would laugh heartily if one of you admitted sellers got busted, cuz well you know better then to steal or you should. For heavens sake what are you teaching your children!
     
  27. When trading 10k, how do you know it's not one friend giving to another. This cannot be proven one way or the other if someone is selling simoleans since the rl money is through different means than EA.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    They dont have to prove a thing to close your acct and ban you from the game.
     
  29. Then they will be banning many people that give others simoleans? Don't you think that will cause some legal problem by banning for no good reason. I know I have given some to my roomie thru another sim that is not a roomie. So in your senerio, I will be banned because I was being nice to another sim. Not so sure that would be good for business.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ahhh but you see you have allready admitted to doing this and we all know the devs read the boards. [​IMG]
     
  31. Yes, I do,,,,but not on a constant basis,,and many times I give money away.

    You are missing the point. How about OTHER that give money away,,,you cant ban people on just suspicion, or all the bots would be gone.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    They can do whatever they want. If you want to risk it thats your business. No matter what anyone says I see people who buy and sell from someone other then EA as a thief. The same as if you steal a pack of gum from the corner store, embezzle millions from your job or knock an old lady on the head for her purse. Stealing is stealing and thats what is.
     
  33. Ok, this is the last i'm posting to this. I am NOT stealing. The simoleans are mine by working, MINE. Now if I was using a bot, thats a totally different story. I am selling what is mine.

    What do you want? Everyone to be banned except for mods and pom pom girls?

    Just because we dont play the game the way you want us to play, you want us out? Talk about control freaks. I sure hope newbies are reading these boards and see how others react when you dont play the game their way.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No, simoleans and all in game items are the property of EA, you do not own them. Maybe you should have a look at the ToS.