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<Catskills> We need some TRUE evil on our shard? Any takers? ;)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Pandora_CoD, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    <Role Playing Post>

    Our shard is plagued with goody two shoes... even I am guilty of it!!! So we decided to make a new truly evil RP guild and seek folks that really enjoy being down right evil!!! We need some creativity and some wicked ability to role play! :stir:

    If this is something that would interest you, let me know via PM! :)
     
  2. Babble

    Babble Guest

    *steals the cookies from all the children*
    :)
     
  3. kulder

    kulder Lore Keeper
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    bah out of the way newb *kicks the children and steals the cookies from the dogs*
     
  4. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    What kind of theme will the guild have(besides being evil)?

    Do you have HL agreements with other RP'ers in Catskills?

    Will there be a GH and will it be based in Fel or Tram?

    Will the other RP'ers play fairly with your guild? IE no stacking the deck against your group and other 'god-mode' tactics.
     
  5. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Seems we are not alone in our dilemma. Seems no one wants to play the bad guy anymore... but then it's a difficult job to be bad without being a JA... and to be a good opponent without being overbearing and insufferable...

    Tough balance. Few like to fight and PvP either if they are always on the losing end. And it's hard to find that delicate balance where evil is evil and not just oppressive. How many times do you lose let go, win and everything before folk just tire of the same old arguments either. If good always wins evil eventually gets bored and quit.... if evil always wins good gets irritated and the game becomes oppressive... finding the fine line is hard.

    Finding folk that can RP evil good is difficult some want the power and PvP but forget about rules.... they want the fights without the reason...

    And also finding RP without drama can be tough too.

    I wish you luck though.
     
  6. Dicimiie

    Dicimiie Guest

    Ultima Online has so many things going for it as far as evil roleplaying goes. Assuming that the roleplaying happens in Felucca, pretty much anything goes. You can roleplay a band of bandits, a group of assassins, a true thieve's guild, pretty much anything you can think of.

    The only thing you have to remember is that while you can die in the game, you never truly die due to that friendly neighborhood healer that will bring you back. This right here seems to be the biggest negative to roleplaying, and it exists in every single MMORPG as far as I know. I call it a negative because with unlimited resurrections, there really is no consequence for any action you take. Death is a great equalizer, but it simply doesn't exist in UO.

    I do miss the times that I roleplayed a character named Fyst, an undead hunter with a rather macabre feel to him. If I still played, I'd certainly join your group. I do miss roleplaying.
     
  7. Babble

    Babble Guest

    It is not easy to play a bad guy. Shunned from society and doomed to be always hated, attacked on sight and ever returning.

    My suggestion would be to make an evil character but give them the chance to be killed unlike the good chars that always return.
    in the age of soulstones and clever macroing/items it should not be that hard.
     
  8. Dicimiie

    Dicimiie Guest

    This isn't necessarily true. The best evil characters are the ones that don't come across as evil. I've done it several times. In WoW, I even created two identical characters... one was what I wanted people to see, and the other was the one I used for all of my dastardly deeds. If done right, nobody ever gets an idea of what's going on, even if you elude to what you're doing. I used to drop hints all the time, but never got caught. It was fun.
     
  9. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Not when a certain group takes enjoyment in running people off of the shard.

    You've been away a while Pandy, it only gets worse.
     
  10. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    UMMM, Hello?!?!

    I'M on Catskills, what more do you need?

    I already installed a moat around Luna and have blockaded all vendors, instituted economic sanctions against the outlying territories, completely shut off spawning to almost every non-alligned guild....

    What the heck else do I have to do?

    Oh, wait, this is RP evil.... shat, I thought this was REAL DEAL evil...

    Carry on.
     
  11. I Play UO

    I Play UO Visitor

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    Our guild can make chars there and ruin PvP if you'd like.
     
  12. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    We do have a common unified ROE with those that play in our RPvP theme, which is based on Order vs. Chaos. Basically, we need more Chaos folks. :)

    To answer Hunter's questions...

    Q. What kind of theme will the guild have(besides being evil)?

    The RPvP theme we play on is called Order vs. Chaos; it has some of the best RP guilds on Catskills on it. The guild lore I'd like to use is based on the "Followers of Mondain", there is some fictional history provided on this in the EA archives (if they ever get those back up).

    Q. Do you have HL agreements with other RP'ers in Catskills?

    For those part of Order vs. Chaos, yes. There are some other RP guilds that did not opt for RPvP, but OvC theme centers around that kind of RP, I call it "conflict RP".

    Q. Will there be a GH and will it be based in Fel or Tram?

    Yes, there will be a GH... it will more than likely be in Trammel. Most of the plots are centered out of Trammel, since basically its against "highlighted" characters.

    Q. Will the other RP'ers play fairly with your guild? IE no stacking the deck against your group and other 'god-mode' tactics.

    We've had no problems thus far, everyone sticks to the common ROE's... certain battle plots call for some modification of the ROE's for that specific storyline --- such as "able to loot a red bag" or "dead means dead, no DR". But before a plot is put to play, we all agree on it. We're not fans of anything "god mode".

    As far as being "outnumbered"... that dependings on the situation. As long as you RP it, it should be fine. Like for example a mugging might see 4 pirates or briggands hold an unexpecting young lady at knife point demanding all the coin in her satchel, etc. etc.

    Our death robe rule is currently you don the robe for 30 mins and you role play out your injuries, which allows further role play to happen --- such as arresting a player and bringing them to jail to be tried, etc. etc.

    We want folks that can be creative and tell a story... and really want the RP to come before the PvP. Hell, you dont even have to be a good PvP'er... as long as you can RP!
     
  13. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    Doubt you could ruin PvP on Catskills more than it has been lately, and its not PvP'ers we need, but RP'ers willing to do some PvP. :p If you think that sounds like fun and something new or different, let me know.
     
  14. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    I love you Lykor, but you dont want to RPvP! Remember I asked you... :p
     
  15. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    Flutter, I am trying to make it better. We've had some good success with OvC this month, its really been a lot of fun to get back into RP'd wars. :p

    I say you make a character and come RP! Take a break from breaking skulls. LOL
     
  16. Pandora_CoD

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    We have no problems in making characters that can be killed off... its rather easy with name/race/gender change deeds. :)
     
  17. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    Reactivate!!! Come play and enjoy what we're doing... we're really getting back into the OLD SCHOOL kinda role play that does KILL OFF characters and allows ppl to re-create themselves!

    Check out our RPvP Theme... we took a very well know, familiar, and loved old system (Order vs. Chaos) and put our own RP twist on it. :)
    Order vs. Chaos | A Catskills Role Playing PvP Theme
     
  18. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    :O *shocked, appalled ... intrigued* lol I have some toons on Cats but I usually just go there when Mesanna makes 30 random rares, sorry :/ .. good luck on evil endeavors though :)
     
  19. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Good luck then :)
     
  20. Stabs you in the back, takes the cookies and poisons them.....hands them back out to the kids!
     
  21. canary

    canary Guest

    It is much, much easier to play 'good' over 'evil'.

    I would challenge your peers on Catskills who already play good to try to make some evil characters.

    TBH, well done 'evil' rp'ers seem to be lacking on most shards. There is a reason for this.
     
  22. Babble

    Babble Guest

    *remembers waiting as assassin 30 minutens on the prey.... then not the prey came in but his grandmother ... well i beat up the grandmother to send the message*

    :p
     
  23. Pandora_CoD

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    That's actually exactly what we're doing, creating our own enemies, I am just asking if others would like to join us. :)
     
  24. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Order Vs Chaos RP FTW!!! Pandy knows what people are looking for :) C'mon you evil wannabe's. Nothing beats a good Order vs Chaos theme.
     
  25. Pandora_CoD

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    Thanks Zos for the support!! And for the bump... ;)
     
  26. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I'd be interested in this. But I'm waiting to see where UO is going. I'd only do it as part of a long term plan.
    Also, a huge drawback is the two client system, where looks and client capabilities vary.
     
  27. Bianca_CoD

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    I too would love to be able to have the same abilities in both clients. Personally, I prefer the classic client, but do enjoy the chat tabs in the enhanced client.

    I still manage to enjoy my time though, regardless of the client discrepancies, whenever I do play. Like everything you must weigh how much something bothers you (such as the clients) vs. how much enjoyment you'd get out of playing.

    This week we got some ship vs. ship battles in Trammel where Order goes up against Chaos... it should be wicked fun! That to me is worth dealing with the lack of abilities the 2D client has.
     
  28. Bianca_CoD

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    The guild we're creating as our "own enemies" as Pand mentions above is going to be based on the Cult of the Fallen. So if you guys just want to put a character in that guild, let us know... we'll have some chats with you in game. Even better would be if a few of you from other shards banded together and created your own guild here on Cats to play with us in. :)
     
  29. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Having had experience playing evil on three different shards over the course of maybe four years of heavy RP, I can tell you that this is usually squarely on the heads of the "good guy" roleplayers.

    Most of them don't want any sort of nuanced or competent evil. They want Cobra Commander. They want someone who'll hatch a plot to BLOW UP THE WORLD MWAHAHA, supply their bored guild of royal knights someone to fight, then lose so they can go back to HQ for frosty chocolate milkshakes.

    God help you if your idea of "roleplaying evil" isn't sitting at whatever bank the RP hangout is, waiting for twice your number of the Holy Knight Militia (or whatever) to show up and RP "we claim this city so let's fight" for 30 seconds, followed by 5 minutes of PVP and 30 minutes of sitting in a deathrobe.

    God help you even more if you win. That's when the crybabying starts. Oh you guys are evil, but some of you have Chivalry on your templates, that's bad RP. Of course half of the Royal Holy Knight Squad are DP dexers or stealth archers or some crap like that, but don't you dare bring that up.

    I can't imagine wanting to sign up for some Evil Punching Bag guild put together by some goody roleplayers who need someone to entertain them.
     
  30. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It does seem that roleplay groups accept some strange things. Necro good guys? Paladin bad guys? And just looking for an excuse to fight is a common thing too. It just seems like roleplayers have been very loose with the rules to get people involved. Not everyone, just generally speaking.
     
  31. Anfalas

    Anfalas Guest

    what he said

    Also a lot of "we didn't schedule tonight to be a time to deal with you, so save your evil for when we give you permission".
     
  32. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I have to agree with Anfalas here. As a former Catskills player and rp'er,I have seen some underhanded tactics by the "good guys" to unlevel the playing field in their favor. 'Warded' houses,which is an abuse of game mechanics for the sake of "winning". Putting on ignore those people that rp in a way you disapprove.Even using an RP forum to strong-arm and mute those that are desenters to the RP "norm". This has happened too many times in Cats RP past. I do hope when I involve myself,again,in the RP in Catskills,I do not see the same type thing again. *crosses fingers*
     
  33. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I have had experiences across 3 shards that is nearly the opposite of this. In fact, now that I think about it, it's literally the opposite of this. (Especially on one shard in particular.)

    I actually had posted something on this yesterday, then deleted it because I feared it would be taken as an attempt to get attention and interfere in another shard's activities, with the way they want to do things.

    (The crux of my post, by the way, was that playing Evil is actually easier. Good, being more restricted in-character by definition, is actually much more interesting from an RP perspective than is Evil. Evil by definition is not as restricted in-character. On a related note, for Evil, the expectations, in-character and out-of-character, are far lower.)

    I see that other posters don't have the same level of concern, and thus a few posts trashing good guys. Which is about as needless as my post was, with the important distinction that I realized I screwed up and deleted my post.

    Too late to resurrect my post now, though. I guess next time I will just post my thoughts and experiences and let those who wish to think ill, think ill. Plainly, they will do it anyway.

    Ironically this is a mirror to the situation I had spoken of in the post I deleted. For some the expectations are low and thus they can get away with just about anything. And, for others, the expectations are not just unrealistically high but skewed. And thus merely doing something is considered getting away with something, and getting away with something is considered getting away with everything.

    So, yeah. Next time I will just post my thoughts and not worry.

    *shrugs*

    -Galen's player
     
  34. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
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    So let me chime in here guys a bit, because I am liking this discussion VERY much. I think more and more people need to be honest and say what they feel. I am very much that way myself.

    First, I am a returning player to my home of Catskills. I had not played in nearly 8 years --- I reactivated once a few years ago and saw I no longer had my prized Halberd of Vanq and immediately deactivated LOL --- so I am not privy to the on-goings of Catskills since 8 years ago. I had to learn, and learn quickly I did.

    My guild was founded on the day that Catskills opened, which was about a month after the grand opening of UO. I and many in my guild had been beta testers and first started (like a lot of ppl on the East coast) on Atlantic and then moved to Catskills. We were the first "vampire" guild to have formed that was strictly just vampires. We also had a very liberal stance on RP --- we would RP together for certain encounters and interactions with others, but we would also do a lot of OOC stuff together. We used to use Yahoo voice chat (today we use Vent) for such hunts and stuff that we did OOC.

    The events and storylines we wrote and executed while in character were almost always centered around territorial wars. We had a very successful city called Vamp's Lair, just east of Britain and we'd consistently get challenges and we'd have large scale RP wars with other guilds such as UDL and CA and SCO (ShadowClan Orcs). We had very simple RoE's back then --- 1) dont ever loot, 2) if you die, you ressed got your stuff and sat out for the entire day --- dead, 3) if you won a territory fight, opposing sides had the right to use your claimed territory as they saw fit until you once again pushed them out of it. And this was the RP we longed to come back to... back then there was a shortage of GOOD guys, so our lore was primarily built on us being that "good guy".

    Upon our return to the game, we could not pick up where we left off, the game had changed so drastically, but we honestly thought "folks must still love to be the bad guys" so we did not deviate too far from our original lore of us being the "good guy". Sadly, that was not the case. Everyone seemed so comfortable doing nothing but tavern sits. I thought, while I love to sit in a tavern, which helps me develop my character, that simply CAN'T BE ALL WE DO!

    Sooo my guildies and I set out on a mission to change that... and many many of the old RP'ers of our shard were not happy about that at all. Change isn't something that is accepted on Catskills that easily. As I see a lot of you saying the same thing. Our RP style was wayyyy different than most others.

    CoD wanted, longed for, the old days where territories were challenged, cities were warred on, and defense and offense were the thought of the day. We wanted simple, yet agreed upon, ROE's that wouldn't change too much the way the folks already liked to play their characters. I realized so many of us are all "grown up now" and have such busy lives that long gone were the days when you would just "bump into" RP --- at least on Catskills. I know other shards are more populous and this is much more feasible.

    So we created Order vs. Chaos and CoD went "Lawful Neutral" --- neutral meaning that we could flip flop from side to side depending on the storyline. It gave us the option to be opportunists, as often vampires are. Other guilds in OvC are the same way and some are strictly one side or the other. We have 5-6 RP guilds that are part of OvC and there are 3-4 RP guilds that are not. So yes, there is a divide. But the 5-6 guilds that are part of OvC are after conflict and an RPvP challenge, while the ones that are not care not for that type of RP.

    I am not going to just give into a group that says "We RP this way and we will not change." That's just not for me or my guildies. Call me the "Rebel of Catskills RP", if you want. But one thing I am is very passionate about RP as a whole within UO --- and I am passionate about Catskills, it has been my home, has brought me so many friendships that I have treasured for years. CoD has played 7 MMO's together, 23 of us remaining together from our original time in UO. They seem to continue to follow me, I think they are stalking me really!!! LOL... So the 5-6 guilds that do enjoy the type of RP that engages in active PvP battles will press forward and hope to take some of you with us!!! And I can promise, that are long as the RoE's we have are kept and respected, you can be as evil as you wanna be in OvC.
     
  35. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Well, that statement is not true for the Catskills community. I meanwhile moved to Europa, but I played on Catskills for 13 years and we kicked them landlubbers' arses more than once. Fights were fair, you never knew who'd win, and lately the "evil" RPers clearly got the upper hand.

    To my opinion, what Catskills is lacking isn't really evil roleplayers, but roleplayers in general.
     
  36. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    I don't know jack about Catskills, but GalenKnighthawke and MalagAste are from Great Lakes. I can tell you exactly why that shard doesn't have any evil RP. Or at least I could have a few years ago. I don't really know what's gone on in the meantime, but things haven't changed much from the sound of it.

    Oh also, if anyone ever wanted to fight out of a "warded house" then it was the opposing guild leader's job to call BS and take his guild home. Let them go roleplay at Fel Yew Gate if they want to housefight.
     
  37. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    fyi:
    [​IMG]


    I took this pic about six minutes ago and uploaded it on my wife's photobucket.
     
  38. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I see nothing wrong with warded houses. Evil's had them too, and in fact I've never once seen a good guy character attack from a warded house in the manner the post you're responding to describes.

    -Galen's player
     
  39. canary

    canary Guest

    Well, other than Atlantic and Europa, most shards are, I have noticed.
     
  40. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I haven't seen anyone attack from a warded house either,but in this case if I had a vamp character that came upon this house and was invited in by the owner. Do I stay IC and stop at the steps as if I hit a brick wall or do I go OOC and enter anyway?
     
  41. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    One could get the idea from this thread that good guy RPers have a monopoly on breaking out-of-character PvP rules, "scripted" storylines, and the like. This is not true, and I can think off-hand of multiple anecdotes that I've been personally involved in, and multitudes more that I've heard of from people I trust, of bad guy RPers doing the same kinds of things.

    Why not relate more detail? Because I'd dredge up old matters more than I have to. Some readers will identify themselves in the story, no matter how generic I make it, and some will think "damn, he hasn't gotten over that," and forget that I'm just making a narrow point: That good guy RPers far from have a monopoly on the "sins" of RP, such as scripted storylines, breaking PvP rules, and other things along those lines.

    I'd hate to see someone unfamiliar with RP read this thread and get that impression.

    -Galen's player
     
  42. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Shot in the dark guess: If the character was invited in IC, hit the brick wall, make an excuse, and leave. Indeed I'm willing to bet many vampires keep a storage of stock excuses for such things.

    If the invite was OOC the other player, I'm guessing, will probably tell you?

    If the whole conversation was OOC, then enter.

    Again that's just my guess as to what to do.

    -Galen's player
     
  43. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    Yes I would naturally make an excuse and leave and say I "forgot something",but the characters that I have seen play on Cats in years past (this is not pointing the finger at any current Catskills rp'er) are "super smart" and if my vamp didn't enter and made an excuse to leave. That character would automatically(magically) discover what my character is. Deus ex Machina,anyone?
     
  44. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    You can't control what other characters can infer.

    For the player to pretend the character knew it outright, in an absolute and undeniable sense, is foolish.

    I fail to see, however, how you can get mad at a player for the character for making the inference. If he thought everyone who didn't enter his house was a vampire, the character would have other problems to deal with. Namely the fact that anyone who just didn't like him would think he was a vampire.

    I actually seem to recall such a rumor spread about Galen once. If I'm remembering that right it's a good guess it was based on some similar incident.

    I remember once, I tried to import what I found was a very, very awesome RP convention from Europa to LS: The use of a hooded robe as a disguise. At the very least, wearing the hooded robe, it was considered that the character was difficult to recognize.

    When I returned to LS from Europa, I put in Galen's profile "hard to recognize when he wears his hooded robe." I figured, surely my fellow RPers would read a profile!

    First person I encountered was a bad guy. "Hello, Galen."

    Good guys don't have a monopoly on the god-moding you describe. No, you didn't say they did. But that was the implication. Or, at least, I thought it was. Was I wrong?

    -Galen's player

    PS: Lest I be accused of sanctifying myself, I'll relate an anecdote about myself, and let you draw your own conclusions: The closest I've come to god-moding, to my own recollection, did involve something a little similar. A character was under a gypsy curse, and I had long-played Galen as having a background with gypsies, so I decided he inferred what was going on, at least in highly general terms. The player who played the character who cast the curse went with it, and we got, I believe it was like 3 or 4 events out of it, and we collaborated on, something like 5 fictional posts? Whether she actually liked it or viewed it as god-moding I guess I'll never know for sure now. Damn I've been doing this for a long time....

    PPS: And, on a semi-related note, I as delighted to see GL following a similar convention to Europa when it came to the hooded robes. And I was even more delighted to introduce that convention to non-RPers at a recent EM event.
     
  45. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I would like to point out that the roleplayers you are carefully not pointing fingers at are not (currently) part of OvC.

    Likewise, the groups who want to roleplay solely for the purpose of PvP (which I'm shocked that nobody mentioned them yet (on any shard)) are not part of OvC.

    Also, if you should participate in the OvC ring, I expect everyone to not ignore you out of participation. If you should feel that you are being ignored/abused, talk to Pandora or myself (in game, ICQ/IM, PM here, etc). Something will be done about it.
     
  46. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    No, but they have a near-monopoly on feeling that...

    A) The other side has no reason to exist if it's not hissing and spitting and supplying conflict for them.

    B) They're entitled to win all the time.
     
  47. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    *tags to last*

    It seems that I have let my temper speak for me the last couple of posts in this thread. For anyone I may have offended or discouraged from giving RP or even RPvP a try,I apologise. For those that remember me from when I played Catskills as my main shard knows I have a long memory and a short fuse.I will digress and will not post in this thread again.
     
  48. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    I don't think Catskills could handle me.


    but cannot wait to see the evil take over the shard!!!
     
  49. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Temper or not, you still raised valid points relative to the discussion.

    And they're something that we have pretty much constantly in mind... or "How can we be more inclusive?"
    (Granted, we aren't perfect there either... but I'll not air that dirty laundry in public)
     
  50. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Wrong again, I am afraid.

    That may be how you have interpreted your own experience, and I cannot reasonably claim to be an expert on your feelings, but to the extent that you raise a point that is subject to empirical verification? I have seen exactly that behavior from evil many-a-time. Yes, I've seen it from good too, but other posters have that part covered. So, I cover the other part.

    I actually have certain ideas on how good vs. evil RP should be handled, if it is handled at all, but these ideas are very idiosyncratic and are not consistent with the shared understandings of most shards.

    So I usually just keep them to myself. I was about to post them last night, then I changed my mind.

    When someone posts things as you have, I have one of two choices. I can allow these statements to stand unchallenged, even though I know they are not true, and thus run the risk of creating the impression that good guy RPers are dishonorable by definition. And, intentionally or not I cannot say, that's the impression I fear many of the posts in this thread have conveyed.

    My other choice would be to respond, and engage the discussion, and by doing so running the risk of creating the equally false impression that RP is by definition a mire of bitter out-of-character conflict and bitter personalities. I have found this to be no more true of RP than of other playstyle in UO.

    It's always a hard choice.

    I wish Catskills luck, and wish to assure anyone reading this who hasn't engaged in RP that it is a rewarding playstyle that adds great depth and meaning to one's in-game experiences, whether you're part of an RP community or not.

    -Galen's player