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Character defense needs to be skill based.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by puni666, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    How about making our defensive ability skill based instead of being base on if you're wearing a weapon or not.

    Keep Wrestling defense the way it is
    Keep Eval/Anat defense the way it is
    Weapon skill defense would be altered to this.
    (Any Weapon Skill) + (Tactics) /2 = Your base defense ability (armed with a weapon or not).

    To prevent parry characters from becoming over powered you change disarm to not only disarm a weapon, but any equipped shield as well.

    Wrestling will still be the only thing that will allow you to use unarmed special moves and won't cost you another 120 skill points to have effective defense.

    This will make characters want to put more skill points in tactics also rather then just skimming by with 90 for primary and secondary special moves.

    I think it would attract more attention to people being interested in playing tank mages again also.

    The only downer is that Mage Weapon players will still feel the original effect of being hit every time while disarmed. Mainly because they're using their skill points that they save from wearing the weapon for defense to become a more offensive character.
     
  2. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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  3. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Didn't we already do this subject in the spellcaster forums a few weeks ago?

    I believe this Idea was shot down because it required tactics which is a given on most PvP dexers.

    Another is that this would effect all PvM characters. Not everyone uses tactics.

    Also as you mentioned this would nerf those with mage weapons. Every mage template, Necro mage, Mystic Mage, etc.

    We have enough Tactic skills requirement as it is thanks to Guildmule and Jeremy Dalmar which wrecked more templates than a derailed train.
     
  4. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    weap skills are for weapons, unless mages got changed to magery/eval= defense. then would be a definite no
     
  5. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Mages use wrestling which doesn't require tactics for a 120 defense skill.
     
  6. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Mage weapon welders get the benefit of a free 120 skill points though for free defense. That's why they would not get a benefit like this.

    And pvmer's might just have to do things in a group since this is a mmorpg. Or change up the template.

    And another thing about the dexers all having tactics. Sure they have it but how many do you know use a scrolled out 120 tactics dexer besides archers?
    A lot run with just 90 which with this calculation would put them at a 105 base defense. This would eliminate or reduce the effectiveness of a lot of the "gimp templates". And MASSIVELY reduce the amount of people that rely on chain disarm as a pvp tactic.
     
  7. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Currently, the base defense of characters is skill based, your weapon skill is your defense. What you're really asking is "nerf DCI for mage weapon."
     
  8. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    They do? Are you sure? You are proposing that everyone always have the same chance to defend, if they have a weapon or not, correct? Hardly a point to disarming aside from not being hit. Also an awful lot of mages do not use wrestling, as it takes up 120 skill points that could be used else where, hence why so many have mage weapons, point is mute.
     
  9. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Just give up guys, he has been preaching this stuff in 3 threads already. He just wants to nerf every template out there but dexers and spouting something about tank mages.

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=187845
    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=165729&highlight=tactics
    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=187971&highlight=tactics





    Here is a clue Puni666. Tank mages suck without precast special & spell combo which you cannot do anymore, and that nerf implementation was a players idea.

    If someone wants to play a tank they can already.

    No one likes this Idea, It is one sided as hell, if not anti mage in nature.
     
  10. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    That doesn't make any sense. How is this asking for a DCI nerf on mage weapons? And yes it's based on having a weapon equipped to have a base defensive chance. So are you saying any trained warrior MUST have a weapon in their hand to defend themselves?
     
  11. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I'm not looking to nerf every template out there. I'm looking for a valid fix for having 0% chance to defend yourself while being chain disarmed. Disarm should ONLY remove your ability do deal damage with a weapon. NOT make you able to be hit by anything that's headed your way for the duration of disarm.
     
  12. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Points not mute because the fact they're making a defensive trade for offensive ability.
     
  13. Venus_AUPK

    Venus_AUPK Guest

    So if a mage ran 120 wep and 120 tactics, they would have the same base defense armed or disarmed? (bleed wrestle mage any one?) making EI / Anat kind of pointless unless you need 20 more skill points.....

    I actually don't mind this idea for balancing disarm and having a penalty for people who run SC - 20 MW
     
  14. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    and ur giving up what for this super powered defense?
     
  15. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    Valid fix? if u wish to have a defense unarmed add wrestling ,like u suggest for mages
     
  16. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    exactly it is a weap skill,and ur not a trained warrior but a trained swordsman,fencer,ect. just because u get a title of warrior does not mean ur proficient in everything. its a skill based not a class based game
     
  17. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    20 points can be kinda useful on a necro mage temp if you don't want to use specials and don't want to worry about being disarmed.
     
  18. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I thought weapon defense was for parry/bushido characters. Or am I wrong?
     
  19. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    u are wrong, weaps =attack/defense, parry/bushido r enhacement skills for weaps. think not? then take ur char out with parry/bushido and no weap skill and see how often u get hit.
     
  20. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I know that I'll get hit 60% of the time, I'm not stupid. Are you a person that thinks disarm isn't a major problem? Or rather a person that relies on it quite often?
     
  21. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Who says a dexer or tank should sacrifice anything to have at least 50% defense against other DEXER/tank attacks while disarms considering the amount of skill points they would have invested in their template for this?
     
  22. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Honestly... this idea doesn't have any merit in relation to realism parrying/deflecting with a weapon is quite distinct from parrying with hands.

    Whether it does in UO or not...? *shrugs*
     
  23. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    And exactly how is it a "major" problem, other than for your char that is

    Actually i am a "person" who uses mage weaps
     
  24. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    wep skill =attack/defense, tactics =damage, why should they get unarmed defense without investing more points?
     
  25. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Not just my character. Any character in general that can be chain disarmed and run down by 3 archers with 100% chance to hit the chain disarmed character. It seems silly that holding a weapon is the only thing that lets you dodge attacks.
     
  26. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    hmm your complaint seems more related to getting ganked,on this matter i suppose they could allow the honor virtue to be used. target player(in fel)and u wouldn't take damage(or anything else)or be able to damge any one else for the duration(shorter duration than for mobs). would this not solve your complaint?
    would probally also be useful in peep interfering with 1v1,now that i think about it


    Edit: of course getting the devs to do this would be another matter
     
  27. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    You're not even trying to understand the point of what I'm saying. There's no point talking to a brick wall. It was just 1 example.
     
  28. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    You're asking for a complete revamp of a 12 year old battle system that's only received minor tweaks here and there.

    What have we learned from asking for these?

    Oh it's not gonna happen because it takes a **** load of time to do, and not really worth the effort.

    If you're trained in swords, you know how to defend yourself with a sword. If you have no weapon, you're not gonna be able to do much but parry (if you have a sheild) which is a different check than defense chance. You not having skill in what you have means you don't know how to use it.
     
  29. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Shields were disarmable at one point and it sucked ass big time.
     
  30. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    "Keep Wrestling defense the way it is." Mages +1

    "Keep Eval/Anat defense the way it is." Mages +1

    "(Any Weapon Skill) + (Tactics) /2 = Your base defense ability." Weapon Templates -1

    "To prevent Parry characters from becoming over powered you change disarm to not only disarm a weapon, but any equipped shield as well." Disarm Spammers(Tank Mages and Melee characters alike) +1

    "Wrestling will still be the only thing that will allow you to use unarmed special moves and won't cost you another 120 skill points to have effective defense." Mages +1

    "This will make characters want to put more skill points in tactics also rather then just skimming by with 90 for primary and secondary special moves."

    - They could raise the requirements to 100 and 120 Tactics for the special moves without hindering Mage+Melee/Ranged(strange for me to be defending this class! -.-') templates and Melee/Ranged templates so much.

    "I think it would attract more attention to people being interested in playing tank mages again also."

    - Mage templates are already more than popular. There may be the "Flavour Of The Week" but mages are rocking steady, as they almost always have been.

    "The only downer is that Mage Weapon players will still feel the original effect of being hit every time while disarmed."

    - You are implying that's not making sense to you and you believe when a weapon-based mage template gets disarmed should not be hit every time as a balancing factor for enjoying quite a lot of advantages for the skill points invested in the template?

    "Mainly because they're using their skill points that they save from wearing the weapon for defense to become a more offensive character."

    - Aren't you forgetting to explain how other templates get extra room for more skills to be fair to all?

    My final thought is that if you're pushing for this, I should propose in all seriousness that all special moves and abilities which are not true spells should use STR for DMG(150 STR = 100% of their current damage calculated prior to DI through items, any less reduces the damage), DEX for specials' Hit Chance(150 DEX = 45% calculated prior to HCI through items) and Stamina instead of Mana(with Lower Stamina Cost items appearing and timers on Refresh, mages can have a Mana Pot if that goes in), along with all weapon skills including Archery and Throwing becoming one and also being based on DEX/STR, Tactics merging with Anatomy(these two giving Defense Chance calculated prior to the one applied through items) and Focus(ability to perform specials then based on DEX/STR as well for base requirements), Parry merging with Resisting Spells, Meditation and Bushido(and based on DEX+STR Vs Target's DEX+STR may have 100% chance to block specials) and finally Hiding merging with Stealth, Poisoning and Ninjitsu.
    Oh and while at it, Taste ID + Alchemy should lower the timers on potions and increase their potency(I think the last part is already in effect) respectively, while Item ID should be the skill that decides how potent items you can use(20-40 should only allow NPC vendor items and brigand loot for example >.>).

    Then we could talk about your suggestions and in fact mine make more sense balance-wise! rolleyes:
     
  31. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Having a weapon skill is merely avoidance. To defend with the weapon is parry/bushido.