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Cheating the System, one way or another!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Dain, Sep 27, 2009.

?

How big an advantage do you think scripting gives when playing in the field.

  1. OMG It's EPIC massive, it's way unfair; scripters can do so much I can't!

    24 vote(s)
    27.3%
  2. It's unfair! I mean they can't do anything I can't, but they can just do it faster.

    39 vote(s)
    44.3%
  3. Meh, a script can never really be all that much faster then a person with decent macros.

    21 vote(s)
    23.9%
  4. If anything its a disadvantage or slower and scripters suck at UO when their 'programs' stop die!

    4 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. Dain

    Dain Guest

    I have been watching a lot of talk over the years on these forums about the way people manage to cheat and exploit in UO, in specific; bots and in PvP.

    I have always been curious about the general populations view of how other people's certain 'tactics' affect their playstyle.

    So above is a poll which asks you, just how big an advantage do you think "scripters" get in in the field?

    The response seems to be varied.

    Also, just for entertainment purposes (just to give the PvPers a laugh), could you please state any 'hacks' you think exist in UO?

    E.G SDI or Teleport hacks etc.

    Remember, no mentioning names, youtube clips, screenshots or details about anything related to an exploit.

    FLAME FREE ZONE KIDS! (I know, I know.. I'm an optimist)
     
  2. Potgut

    Potgut Seasoned Veteran
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    The question should be, how big of an advantage do "scripters" feel they get in the field?

    If very little advantage, why go through all that trouble?
     
  3. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    oki, we'll let this run, but be careful to keep within the rules.

    There are a heck of a lot less hacks and scripts than accusations of hacks and scripts. There are some people who, when they see someone doing something they don't understand, instead of simply asking 'how did you do that' they make an assumption that the other person is cheating.

    My husband has been accused of using an 'infinite mana' hack while playing his mage in Doom - reality is he has 120 focus and meditation and was casting fireballs.
    He's been accused of using a hack to heal while poisoned and mortalled in the Labyrinth fighting Miasma - character that time was a samurai with 120 bushido.

    Anyone with a reasonable game-knowledge can plainly see there are no hacks involved, but apparently it's easier to assume cheating that to ask for knowledge.

    Myself, I've been asked to make things in bulk. When I reply that, sorry I don't have time to do that, I'm told 'do it while you're sleeping tonight'. There's an assumption that, as a crafter, I use scripts to make my goods. Sorry, but when I sleep my pc is turned off. I *play* the game, you can't play a game if you're not there.
     
  4. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Eh, I've sat in ventrilos PvP and PvM alike. Scripting seems to be massive now a days. I just shrug. I play my way they play the way they want.
     
  5. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I will bite.

    I dont like scripts that play the game for you, but I do not mind simple things that will let you loop a UO assist macro. Illegal or not, I do not see the harm in such a tool that was included in the KR client.

    What it comes down to is...are you physically there? If so, who cares? I say more power to the person who can make one less key click outta things to save themselves from carpal tunnel.

    Damn all those key clicks in the game I say...damn them all!

    BTW...the options are not all that great. A good script writer can write a script that will do things we as people do not have the accuracy to coordination to compete with.

    I have seen pot scripts(explosions on the run that dont miss and always go off at right time), box scripts (script hits box quicker than UOA can process request), bola scripts (scripts that recognize bola and autodismounts to avoid), ect...that are all faster and more accurate than any macro could ever be.

    So my answer is E) Cheating in PVP is ghey. Keep your damn dirty scripts outta fel.
     
  6. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    If remember correctly, scripting in itself wasnt exactly frowned upon.. Scripts afterall are just reoccuring macros. The various programs that use scripts (I've only ever heard of one, but apparently according to this forum theres loads and loads and loads...) are illegal via EA becuase they allow you to 'play' (I use that term loosely) the game while unattended.

    Running a Macro (Classic, Kr or SA) is a simple script, just not a reoccuring one. Unattended Scripting can be a pain in the bum and its any PK'rs game to go out hunting the miners and jacks! The thing that concerns me more are those whom use hacks, bugs and in game mechanics to 'cheat' the system.

    In short my view is that Scripting while attended dosnt really give you any extra bonus other than less chance of RSI and a slight speed increase while clicking (Macros can do that anyway so no difference). Unattended scripting is the problem, its what causes the unbalancing of the markets, gold farming and the like. But worded as the poll is I'ld choose "Meh, a script can never really be all that much faster then a person with decent macros."

    If you were to create a poll about unattended scripting then I'ld say hugely unfair!

    I'll say this though, I dare anyone to say hand on heart that they've never thought about doing it. I've got enough guts to say I have in the past, but the fear.. or knowing that I'll be the one caught has always stopped me.
     
  7. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Dunno man...as I said, in pvp it stinks. So attended scripting in pvp is just as bad if not worse than unattended since it affects the gameplay of others.
     
  8. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    What can you do in PVP scripting that you cant do in Macros?

    Healing, Poisoning, Weapon Skills, Weapon Changes, Spell Casting, dismounting (Dont think you can mount using a macro but I may be wrong) can all be done using macros...

    What difference other than possibly mounting can a script make?

    If your thinking about speed hackers, tree cutting and all the hacks.. thats a hack and not a script as far as I'm aware. Unless again i'm wrong?
     
  9. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Explosion pots...A person can toss multiple pots that explode on you on contact...will follow you around corners, and will allow toggled specs OR spells. (UOA cannot do this, fluctuating ping makes setting delays next to impossible unless you ping 20 or less.)

    Bola Script...I could run a script that would recognize a bola chucker within two screens, and if he targets you the script will auto dismount BEFORE the bola can be thrown. (UOA can dismount, but still requires human interaction)

    Group casting script...There is a script that allows GUILDS to setup all chars involved into one pvp beastie...that auto targets, auto casts, dismounts, debuffs, and owns whatever target selected by the leader. (Dont think this doesnt exist, its been around for almost two years.)

    Those are just three examples of the silliness of scripts in pvp. I didnt mention the autohealers, those are pretty simple to counter IMO.
     
  10. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    You can mount in UOA, honestly uoa macros are faster then any script aside from maybe the heal and cure scripts.

    Alot of shards in the server list actually allow scripting, I bet you didn't know that!

    Well the ones outside the US :p

    I don't care what people do if they script I really dont care. You can't script a crimmy can you?

    Only thing I have problems with is people using over clocking programs, and you know who the people are that are doing it thats the sad part.
    Not only do they skip all over the screen but for me when someone comes running on the screen using a speeder I lock up screen freezes next thing you know i'm dead before I even seen what hit me half the time. That is what needs to be fixed.

    It can't be that hard to put a cap on packets coming in.

    Another is the tree stump hack that lets people walk over gravestones, bagballs, boxes.... You know how much it sucks when your in a faction base and you got the place bag balled from the entrance to the sigils and some stealth theif comes right in walking over your bagballs and you can't chase him cause your not running the hack! That ranks up there with speed hackers to me.
     
  11. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I guess you didnt read my post...:sadface:

    If you did...I can only assume you use this crap to pvp.

    In which case...:next:
     
  12. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    by saying uoa is faster then any script that makes me a scripter?

    I dont get it but w/e I dont care you just wasted your time with your post.
     
  13. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    Must admit I'm not a hard core PVP'r, but I've never seen the dismount scripts or pot scripts in action. It may be that my style of PVP is different to thiers but I can normally always get out if need be.. Hide/invis to get them to go wth? then recall out. Bolas, Pots and all that cant stop me :p even if I do die when I recall out at lest i'm somewhere safe so they get nothing other than a murder count!
     
  14. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    To me, as in my opinion .....

    Scripts and Macros are functionally the same thing, in terms of giving one an advantage.

    PvP is really about NOT making mistakes and capitalizing on your opponents mistakes.

    Not losing at PvP is really about knowing your limitations and being able to accurately assess your chance of surviving.

    Of the above two, one is clearly the player judgment, the other is easily scripted/macroed.

    Me, personally, I don't really see the point in scripting or macroing in PvP. It is the first of many steps down a slippery slope that transforms Person vs Person into Script vs Script, Macro vs Macro, Item vs Item etc.

    Now then, I think people should ask themselves, in a *chuckles* "It is just a game", PvP environment, is it unfair for one person to be using macros that reduces that persons chances to make mistakes and optimizes their timing vs a person that is not using any macros or scripts?

    While the question is inherently rhetorical, it does divide you into one of two groups, those that will "Take every available advantage" vs "Those that prefer it be about the Player/People" OR "I fight mechanically" vs "I am the one fighting not my proxy"

    Unfairness is a vague dual edged sword that cuts in both directions.

    I would think that the best PvP system is the one that does not accept or tolerate mechanical unfairness.

    Is there really a difference if everyone does NOT use macros or scripts vs everyone using the identical macors and scripts (i.e. the game publish's them for you). :pint:
     
  15. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Scripting is more than anything pretty annoying. When you see someone casting flamestrike, eating an apple and heal pot all nearly simutaneously it's pretty unlikely they are doing it all themselves. This has been around for awhile and is the reason I don't play a dp dexxer. Their bar never even goes green and I lose a charge on my weapon. But what gets me insanely mad is the speedhackers. I have been outrun while I was mounted by a person on foot(dismounted). Not only that they were chucking pots and casting miniheals and still caught me! This happens all the time. My conn is not that bad. I never ping above 80 and I'm usually around 40. It's silly on so many levels. I have just resigned to letting them have the champ or area because I really can't compete at that level. Well I could, but it would require cheating which is below my own standards.
     
  16. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    PVP and scripting does not go toghether. You script in PVP you will die to any decent PVP. The reaction times are extremly slow compared to macros cause you see them cast whatever spell and your ready. With scripting you have to actually take the damage of such spell before it even becomes active.

    You need to compesate per momment and situation You must use your macros and your own pvp skills to compete. The scrips will hinder you immensely and the player will lose.

    The things you see like modifying clients walking over stuff are not scrips they are client modifications. The speedhacks are programs but many more are accused than people actually using it.

    The rest that come around once in a blue are exploits.

    Got to remmember to clarify each thing in different categories. A anglo saxon is not a italian and a dominican is not a puerto rican.
     
  17. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    On the contrary....Based on who you framed the issue, you're a realist and you damn well know exactly what kind of reaction this thread will engender. The "pro-scripting" options are phrased as sounding reasonable, the strongest "anti-scripting" option is phrased to sound like a hysterical 11-year old writing on his or her Facebook blog.

    -Galen's player
     
  18. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    So what your saying is they "see" me "casting" infectious strike and drink a cure at the exact moment I hit them? Ummm highly unlikely. But I do agree the people auto-chugging are able to be killed. Some however are not, and those people are the ones that are the most annoying.
     
  19. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    You giving scripts too much credit. The pots that follow you around corners that would be last target. I believe that uoassist and that other program does that better.

    Am looking They had a anti bola script once in 2004 says it doesn't work anymopre because OSI fixed it. The other one stop working during that time as well. So it must of being some sort of code that OSI patched. No new one ever being made if they did it would of being posted sounds like it would of being too useful not to post.

    The group casting can't find but am sure it's around though If a group targets any target anyway that target should be dead regardless.

    And auto healers like I said previous post they are too slow reaction to what a real macro can do.

    I might have to put this as a disclaimer in my posts for now on

    Disclaimer: "Once again am not on any side, I'am just posting the facts as I find them."
     
  20. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Auto-chug are the easiest people to kill next to my poor fellow miners. The players who have like a gaming keyboard,mouse a hot key assigned to each one,macros for every situation, memmorized,reaction of a crazed addicted 78 hour playing monster drink drinking hardcore gaimer are nigh impossible to take on cause there true crazy pros. Most good pvprs show at least some of these charactaristics.
     
  21. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    I guess you're trying to say you're so lightning fast on the heals and cures because you use UOA??? You also seem to know when all these scripts stopped working?? Finally your posting a disclaimer? It's a little like those people who always say I'm not a jerk, but...(they are jerks). Maybe you aren't seeing what I'm seeing on the field. I honestly have no clue what scripts are out there. When I hit someone repeatedly with infectious strike and their bar never even turns green, and I hear them drinking a pot exactly 1 millisecond after I hit them, you cannot say that UOA is faster than that. No one is that fast.
     
  22. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Do not assume. I am not super fast am not a pvp full time or even half time my friends are though.

    And of course I know when these scripts stop working don't you know? I'll tell you exactly when SA came out. Now when someone ask how you know and accused you of being a scripter you can think back that I told you unfortunetly it's really no poijnt to tell them I told you cause they gonna accuse you anyway so it's better to remain oblivious that you know when the scripts stop working. But you do know now.

    Ok do a experiment why don't you cast infection strike and cancel the spell and cast something else at the same time. Besides how long do you wait to drink a pot after some one cast something on you. Do you wait till they actually hit you and a few seconds after or when you see the words over there head do you place your fingure above the hot key and wait till he cast then press the hot key exactly when you get hit.
     
  23. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Infectious strike is a special on a weapon??? What do you mean??? They can't "see" me doing anything. I used to use a butcher knife, kryss, and cleaver. All of them have this special on it. So I am not exactly sure what you are talking about. Unless you can inform me of something I don't know about weapon specials and other players being able to see what I'm doing.
     
  24. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Oopps my mystake I was talking about spells. It's still earlie for me give me a sec and see if I can figure it out. Cause the fact is the scripts aint working now. So are they doing this now while you fight. And what is the exact timing on a cure when you do it. Is it the same person? Different people?

    There is ways to explain it. Do they know your character. After the first time you use it will they expect it again from you. Is the first time you use it do they take longer to cure it but then when you use it again they expect it from you and already ready for it.
     
  25. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Discounting hacks, there are only a few scripts that give a true advantage, such as the bola script Restroom mentions. For the most part, scripts do set actions at set moments. Sometimes they can be quicker that I personally could react, but not particularly faster than someone with excellent reaction time could. Also, scripts can only work within their parameters. They cannot think for you. They might chug a heal pot when a thinking person would have waited, or chug a cure when you wanted to be poisoned to hop the para fields. Overall, they put the people using them at a disadvantage when they are not available, and only a slight advantage over your average person, and only on even ground with a truly skilled person.

    Hacks on the other hand .... while I can honestly say that most speed hackers gain no advantage. Mostly, it brings them up to equal speed as the people who have low pings. However, PACKET PUSHERS cause extreme lag to those around them, and the server does not read their position correctly, making it near impossible to hit them, even if you *think* you are right next to them.

    Last, hacks that allow people to walk over obstacles (bagballs, candleabra) are unfair in the extreme and have a large impact on factions.
     
  26. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    No, thank goodness it doesn't work now but there are entire guilds on my shard that have this exceptional ability. Not 1 or 2 players, an entire guild. Now, are they the kings of this shard, you might ask? The answer is no they aren't, most people refuse to fight them or just leave when they show up. I've actally heard their guildleader saying something to the tune of "why not use scripts? Everyone else uses them, we only use them to be competetive." when in reality they are one of the few groups that use them.
     
  27. Drawde2

    Drawde2 Guest

    Just because one commonly used script program is still down, doesn't mean others are as well. Not to mention custom scripts.
     
  28. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    No...reread what I wrote...you obviously do not get my point. It is not a matter of being faster than UOA...the issues I mention had to do with accuracy and timing. Ping in this game has a direct effect on macro timing with UOA, while the illegal program allows you to get around it.

    I wasted my time? Sorry, but I do not consider educating people on the truths of scripting to be a waste. Maybe you should just go hide back in your hole if you arent going to have an open mind about things. It sure beats the other option, admitting being wrong...
     
  29. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    These are the top two player-generated PvP problems that I wish the developers would focus on fixing or eliminating. The "packet pushers" aren't just ruining things in Fel; they also occasionally pop up in Trammel (e.g., when you do a peerless with a group of strangers or when it's critical that someone beats out a crowd to get somewhere or kill something).

    As someone else already stated, it's incredible that the folks who use these hacks don't seem to understand the reputation they earn by using them to achieve hollow victories. Do they not understand how much damage they do to the whole UO PvP scene by giving themselves such heavy and unfair advantage? Are they oblivious to the fact that when they go crazy with the hacks, people who might have enjoyed competing with them in fair fights either leave their shard to play elsewhere or quit the game entirely in disgust?
     
  30. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    No...I have a pots tosser using UOA. It does not hit everytime due to varying ping times...you are lucky to get one in 5 that hits accurately on a target that is running away. You also CANNOT toggle and use a special when using the UOA macro...with the script you can.

    Bola scripts havent worked since 2004? Wrong, they worked just fine up until the last patch. Throw in the bola exploit for wordless bolas and this script still will unmount its user to avoid being knocked off mount. Don't think so? Just ask others.

    Team targeting script? Yes, it is very lame...and manual targetting has nothing on this script. Why? Those in the loop do not even have to target OR have the oppositions bar. I can get away from a gank just fine, however this script is not something you can run from at all. It is instant, requires no thought from those using it, and relies solely on a script to pvp FOR them.

    Still dont believe it? ...ask about a guy who goes by hex that wrote the explosion tosser (now found in AA guild atlantic...I will not mention chars). Ask guilds that have used the targetting script. (people from the now defunct VIP or LUB...two of the three scripts I mentioned were written by people from these two now defunct guilds.) If you dont want to ask around or even validate my claims, then please do not try to debunk them.

    If the illegal program happens to run again, I will wager my account vs. anyones to show that these do indeed work and are being used. (I know those who have copies of ALL mentioned...so it wouldnt be tough to give you, the devs., and any other non believers a demonstration.
     
  31. Drawde2

    Drawde2 Guest

    Actually, many of them don't care. As long as they have their fun, no one else matters. And then there's the ones where you DO matter. They do what they do specifically to ruin other people's fun, and they need victims for that. Those ones are the entire reason that Fel and Tram exist.
     
  32. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    As I read about the bola thing It used to work but the exploit was closed by EA. Though there might be one that works. You can fool it by using a macro that says the same bola message before actually swinging the bola. That will mess that thing up royaly making it useless.


    The team targeting does exist looks like a few different ones.

    Asking around is something I do but I need to ask around people with facts not people that think it's happening. And you get alot of those people like theres a speeedhack that allows you to do this and that or a script that does that and this and they don't have a shread of proof. I rather look for myself and rely on my own programming knowledge. I ask for second opinions from logical sources. So it looks like I was a little mistaken but I have corrected it by doing some more reasearch.
     
  33. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest


    Tina's Post is still valid. So instead of "actually" at the start of your post you should have said "to add on to what you said"

    Since if the people who use the hacks cuase everyone to quit or leave the shard then they no longer have anyone left to fight or disturb that means no fun for them, no satisfaction.
     
  34. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Yes I can honestly say with hand on heart I have never thought about doing it. that is because I will not download these illegal things on my pc. Even if a dev came here and posted we could all start using these programs that they are now legal to use. I still would not use them to many key loggers and malware out there that could be added in with out anyone knowing. I have 8 years put in, and to much to lose to even chance it.
     
  35. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Thats a bit extrem if the dev said it's ok you really think they will allow you to download it if they knew there could be keyloggers and other stuff. Wait does this mean you didn't or havent downloaded uoassist? Dont mind me but as computers-technology being my job Im kindoff interested for the reason why and that you haven't used uoassist either as that program was illegal untill dev said it was legal.
     
  36. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Don't forget that some of us haven't played long enough to remember those days. By the time I started playing, UOAssist was a UOPro application. I had no idea when I paid to start using it that at one time it was not okay to use it. Didn't learn that little piece of information until I'd been playing a few years and only because someone said something about it here in U.Hall.
     
  37. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Ah I understand now. So assuming they made it legal but you never knew that it was illegal then you would of used it cause you never knew it was illegal. K makes sense.

    Though on a side note you shouldn't worry too much about keygen,malaware and so forth it's not that easy for it to get in your system especialy keyhacks. Just never install something you don't know where it came from. ANd weekly do a virus search plenty of good free programs out there superantispyware is a good one.
     
  38. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    You know, I might vote in this if you hadn't already tipped your own hand as to how you feel about scripting by the choices you gave in your answers.

    To put it succinctly, scripting is cheating. Cheating is bad. It should not be allowed or condoned. And those of you who will respond, "It's only a game," yeah, no **** it's a game. If you were at my house, in person, cheating at a game of Monopoly I'd send your cheating ass home too.

    There's no need to cheat. It's just a sign of laziness.
     
  39. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    *To cue you in, the bola script in question can differentiate between a bola being thrown at you and one that is being hurled. It can also dismount your toon if the bola thrower chucks the magical ^invisa-bola. (^ the invisa-bola is the result of the thrower using an exploit to avoid showing any bola throwing text)

    *this information is meant to inform on a current issue, not to glamorize the use of the illegal macro program

    I appreciate the reply and respect the time you put into becoming well informed. When other people use things considered illegal, I feel it is always best to find out what the heck is supposedly going on.

    If you are ever unsure of something specific, feel free to PM me and I will do my best to help figure it out.
     
  40. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    The only thing that is problematic in this discussion is what is to be considered wrong or bad.
     
  41. jfkeach

    jfkeach Guest

    I dont know, when a red can cast spells while running, or hit you with 3 spells at once, something is wrong with the system. I know that they can have a wep with hit spells, but that means that they have to stop and actually hit you for them to kick off supposedly. When you are maxed out on Resists, have good HPR and mods on your armor, and skills to go with it, and you die within 5 seconds, something is amiss. Melisande cant kill me that fast. Throw into it you have a Pet with you, and it is useless to slow the red down. Yeah, I think there are cheats out there. This same char of mine was a Knight of Justice for a long time, until the scripts got more prolific making it impossible to fight the scripter that seems to abound in felucca. it is why i don't hardly do champ spawns any more. I have seen one red take out 6 blues that are skilled and knew what they were doing.

    When a house placer on Atlantic can pop up a house at an idoc 9 times out of 10, there is a problem. When you see that placer put one up, resize and put up an 18x18 in a spot you had been trying for an hour to put up a 16x16 in less than 10 seconds, you know that there is a script.

    Yes, I have used that non named program in the past. The only use i have ever had for it was to inventory chest contents in my house so I could sort/organize better.

    Do i miss that program? Nah, used it very rarely, and never to cheat the system.

    Are there some features I think Mythic should put into the client? yes. But I can not play the enhanced client becuase it makes me physically ill.

    You want to know how to block scripters? Easy. Tugsoft did it by accident. I cant run programs like UOHomeowner, or UOTamer, or UORudder any more. I am running 64 bit version of Windows 7. Since the patch to UOAssist for the new client, windows will allow you to have focus on the program, but it cant send commands to UO. A focus issue if you will. I dont run client in full screen. But UOAssist is somehow keeping these other programs from working. And it is only since the SA went live. And only on whatever configuration I am running.