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City/Town Loyalty

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Xanthril of LA, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Xanthril of LA

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    Has there been any explanation for why the new loyalty system does not show your points like it does for gargoyle, ophidian, bane, meer, and juka? Seems like knowing the points would be worthwhile. Plus, I read something about town loyalty decreasing over time. That isn't true for the race loyalties. Why the differences?
     
  2. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    In the same vein, do you get loyalty for killing invaders? I have to kill them outside the city limits, as my mystic uses RC. I get no loyalty for that. Is there a way to tell from what city the invaders are coming from? Why do people from one city invade another anyway? If angry protestors get angry enough to become murderers, why are they leaving their own towns to murder in another city? Seems conditions in their own city have heightened their protest to angry rioter status but not enough to push them to the next level.

    This whole scenario is confusing, especially as the OP points out, you don't even know your own status. Perhaps the devs are trying to goad us into becoming protestors ourselves.
     
  3. Dragonater

    Dragonater Journeyman

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    One guess as to why people from one city invade another to murder instead of in their own city is that they're not going to murder, per se, but, as their title implies, to Raid and Plunder. Apparently food and money are running out in their town so they have to leave to find food. And if that means killing, so be it, Survival of the Fittest.
     
  4. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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  5. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    You do know your own status, just not the point value of it. In the CC, left click on your self and bring up the loyalty rating menu like you would to see fame/karma. At the bottom left of that, there is a City Loyalty button you click to see that menu.
     
  6. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Pretty soon the only ones in these cities that are going to remain happy...
    all the Smithies & Tailor's cause they make decent gold from our bribes!
     
  7. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    In trying to determine if I am gaining status by killing murderers, I would have to spend an awful lot of time killing them. Considering that it may take 100 killings to get to adored, seems a waste of time that would/could be avoided if the small bump in loyalty was seen up front.
     
  8. Xanthril of LA

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    But why the difference between race and town loyalty with respect to seeing the point value? When bumps are smaller, it is nice to see that it is still adding up. On the same note, race loyalty does not decay. Why the difference between it and town loyalty, if there is in fact decay for town loyalty?

    Another thought, it would be nice to gain compassion as you are helping the protesters out of their plight. In the alternative, perhaps humility, but compassion seems the more appropriate virtue to gain. Of course, we have a way to gain it already.
     
  9. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Oh, yeah, it appears you do, I get a message when I have to kill a raider that says I do anyway. However, it is widely speculated you gain more loyalty for turning them in. Don't know if you gain more that way for a fact tho, which is why I kinda wish they would have made it a numerical value as well.
     
  10. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I was thinking this myself. Make it happen! plzz =]

    !! I didn't see the whole "loyalty decaying over time" thing... :sad2:
     
  11. SinDee

    SinDee Seasoned Veteran
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    Ok I just want to make sure I have this right. So is there decay for city loyalty over time?
     
  12. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    I know my character has been getting up to Adored Level almost nightly just to log on the next day to see ive dropped back to respected. I then do about 5 rioters/raiders and im back to adored. in another thread someone else mentioned they are experiencing the same thing.
    Also the guard captains say the jails are overflowing so arrested raiders should be taken back to their home town. I assume thats a poorly worded line of information from them since you dont know where the raiders are coming from and when you arrest them and can turn them into the raided city's guard. I think the guard captain might just mean to say arrest the raiders bring them to me and we will take them to their hometown.
     
  13. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    Anyone have an idea how many points towards loyalty do you get for the each of the following actions

    Putting Out Fires =
    Picking Up Garbage =
    Giving Gold =
    Giving Food =
    Giving Clothes =
    Arresting Rioters =
    Killing Raiders =
    Arresting Raiders =
    Killing Rioters = how many points lost?

    Do loyalty points double in Felucca?

    How many points equals each rank?

    Mesanna says there are 25 levels of Loyalty, does this count the negative loyalty, or 25 levels/rank of positive loyalty?

    How do you purposely get negative loyalty, and will there be any benefit for it?

    Will loyalty decrease if you don't actively raise it daily like the virtue system?
     
  14. angelus aconitum

    angelus aconitum Journeyman
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    I think it's good not to know everything.
    All this points bull started with aos and everyone now wants numbers for everything.
    Just try and look what seems to be best for you and do it.
    It's ok if you post the messages you get from doing things.
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Any link to the post (if this is said in a post) where this is said ?

    Also, 25 ?? From what I have read so far I have been able to count I think 9 levels.

    Positive
    Commended
    Esteemed
    Respected
    Adored

    Negative
    Distrusted
    Doubted
    Disfavored
    Detested
    Reviled

    There is some 16 more ??
     
  16. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    Im guessing its 12 levels of Positive 12 levels of negative and 1 neutral.
     
  17. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Venerated comes after adored...

    I agree the system is completely intransparant once again.

    The current progress should be shown as numerical value, and the progress to next level.

    [​IMG]

    This is easy to understand and user friendly.

    [​IMG]

    This is complicated, but transparant.

    [​IMG]

    This is untransparant and not user-friendly.
     
  18. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    There sure is, I got 2 characters to Adored in 2 different towns on Sunday. Monday morning they were both back to respected, got them to Adored again and this morning back to respected. This seems to be one hell of a decay rate and feels like I'm taking one step forward and 2 steps back.

    This does not inspire me to try for Venerated.

    What the O/P is asking for, a running total like other loyalties seems to be too obviously required for us to be asking for but once again we are mushrooms.
     
  19. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    im wondering if maybe the decay is set for later. Perhaps later on we get new ways to gain loyalty that give alot of loyalty and it makes the decay minor at that point. Basically saying the decay isnt scaled to how we gain loyalty at the moment but actually for a further stage in the event.
     
  20. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    I spoke directly with Mesanna this past Sunday at a very small gathering of 6 players for an award ceremony event on Drachenfels. She was so vague about this Rebellion in Britainnia event, but said there are 25 levels of loyalty, and to have the loyalty of the city would be very special. She asked us what does it mean to have a very loyal friend? She also said that she purposely didn't want gaining high loyalty to be easy because the rewards were so great. Finally she said the arc of events will conclude at the end of September. I imagine there will be a script for arresting angry rioters, if there isn't one already, and the scripter's will reap all the rewards as per their usual modus operandi.
     
  21. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    This was in the other city loyalty thread...


    Seeing as how that is 25 different ones I hope it is right. I would hate to think it is 12 loyal 1 unknown 12 disloyal. Especially when it seems the levels increase by a x 5 type deal. Not sure about a script for it, that would be a pain for someone to create. Not putting it past them but I will be carrying some bagballs around with me just in case :D lol
     
  22. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    ah I hadnt seen that one, tiered like fame/karma is. still wouldnt mind seeing what the decay rate might be. i stopped right after i hit adored last nite and today I got back up from respected after about 3 rioters so not too bad, course dont know how many fires i put out too hard to say what thats worth.
     
  23. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Just in case some that care about their city loyalty do not see my post in the New Healing Looting Rights thread..... ya need to see it so.. as posted there:

     
  24. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    took a toon that's not been in town, went to vesper, stamped out a dozen fires, cleared 6-7 garbage, 1 arrest - 'unknown' loyalty - this normal? ran around 10 more mins, no rioters, no fires, no raiders, squat - that normal too?

    if so, then next, i'm going to the hardware store, buy some oil-based paint, come back, paint a board and just watch it dry, fun?
     
  25. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah, when it's like that you have to look for angry protestors (blues) and feed them food or drop gold on them. 1000g or 25 loaves of bread etc will change them from a protester back to a normal citizen. The rioters will show up sooner or later. Just keep feeding the angry folks until then.
     
  26. Nails Warstein

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    I am now venerated with New Magincia on one of my characters. Has anyone bothered to continue trying to see if there is a level beyond venerated? If so, please let me know, so I can keep working on it. For now I am working other cities with other characters. Thanks in advance.
     
  27. Nails Warstein

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    I didn't do anything with my venerated character, just logged in, and I am now adored again. Been working for an hour to see if I can get it back up to venerated, 50 arrests later, I am still adored. Wish I knew if I just kept at it, I might reach a level that does not decay. This is a really strange event, wish we could get some more information of any kind.
     
  28. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Wow, that sux. Knew there was some decay, but thought it was a slight amount.
     
  29. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Well I've done this for awhile now and I have gotten 7 characters up to Adored. One in Brit, one in Jhelom... etc.

    Now that was last week this week it took me about an hour to bring 5 of them back up to Adored... So the decay wasn't THAT horrible.

    However if it decays much faster at Venerated I'm not sure I want to waste all my effort getting that title in all of the cities.


    I'll also say this and the DEV's can either choose to say yes I'm right or no I'm wrong... but it seems to me that turning in a rioter is like the "cream" of the crop for points. I haven't done any arresting of raiders so I can't really say what that's worth.

    Then it occurs to me that feeding protesters seems about as worthy in the field of points as killing a ogre is to gaining fame.

    That said cleaning up garbage and putting out fires seems to rank right up there with killing a mongbat...


    So I have this to say to the DEV's... certainly this was an interesting idea.... but honestly if I'm going to give myself carpal tunnel for all that FREAKING clicking.... It best be worth wasting my time and the injury.

    I'm sooo done with the clickies let the dang towns burn.

    To me it seems the feeding of the protesters is like 1/100th of turning in a rioter... and cleaning up is like 1/1000th... so why bother?

    I mean it's not like I'm going to get any special reward for taking the time to stop the fire and clean the mess in any bit of time ... now if the cleaning and fire putting out was worth more the problem you would then have would be that NO ONE would arrest the rioter and everyone would just follow them about putting out the fire and clearing the trash...

    But if I knew that I got say tripple the points of one rioter if I arrested the rioter and cleared his mess than I'd get if I just arrested him.... now THEN we would be talking. If you could do that it would certainly make it worth my time to stop and clean up before I turned him over.

    Just saying that's my opinion.
     
  30. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    How does the city loyality work? Is there a way to fight in Britain and also help my favorite city Moonglow or what if i get attacked by a horde of raiders run away? Or is it possible to collect loyality for all cities?
     
  31. 1 city only.

    As you gain in one the other will drop unless they are at neutral
     
  32. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    According to Shakkara, turning in 4 rioters is enough for commended, 20 for respected and 100 for adored. I helped 16 protestors to achieve commended and 80 for respected. Based on that, the loyalty points you get from returning an angry rioter is four times more than helping a blue protestor, so feeding a protestor should be 1/4th of turning a rioter.

    Also, arresting raiders will give you exactly the same amount of loyalty as arresting rioters.

    You can only have a "pure" positive loyalty rating towards one city. Pure Positive loyalty ratings are: Commended, Respected, Adored and Venerated. As an example, if you're Respected in once city and help another city after, your loyalty rating will sooner or later become "Esteemed".

    This is a little puzzling though, killing rioters is allowed by the system and you get negative loyalty by doing so. However, you still need to kill a lot of rioters to get to the lowest loyalty ratings. Also, this action does not seem to have any effect on your positive loyalty for other cities while it has for the other way around.

    So, will those who worked hard enough to get to the negative loyalty ratings like reviled or despised be acknowledged after the event? In other words, if you will be rewarded for helping the city in its rough times, will you be rewarded for worsening the situation and helping the riot spread?
     
  33. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    When you say you did nothing, do you mean you were logged in and didn't do anything associated with this event or that you didn't even log in with that character?
     
  34. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    Same.

    My Tamer/mage lost loyalty quickly, going from 'venerated' to 'adored' and now I am trying to get back up to 'venerated' again after working for more than two hours. (Scara Brae)

    This loss of loyalty status took place over night while I was experimenting with a question:

    Question:
    What happens if you work in other cities with different characters, but ALL from the same account? - - as per below:

    Used another strong character (bard/mage) on the same account, in BRITAIN. His loyalty to Britain is now 'adored'. I am working on achieving 'venerated' status but . .

    My first character on that account meanwhile has already lost loyalty to Scara Brae, after spending hours to achieve 'venerated' status. She is now only 'adored' and I've been working for over two hours trying to bring her loyalty status back up to venerated.

    I am scared to look at what is happening to my other character who has just achieved 'adored' status in Britian. :eyes:

    Answer to my question:
    What on UO earth is this all about ....?????

    Loyalty LOSS is far too fast, takes too much time to regain, and now I discover it is rediculously obvious that far too much time is required to keep ONE character's loyalty refreshed, let alone try have various characters loyal to separate cities and keep their loyalty status refreshed too. :wall:

    (solo think tank) - - :popcorn:

    Decision:
    This loyalty quest is :coco: and can best best be described as a Train to nowhere .. to be jumped off before it even starts - - or at least, before it transports its passengers into the realm of insanty.

    Umm.. Question: Why do we need to have loyalty to any city in the first place?

    :next:
     
  35. SinDee

    SinDee Seasoned Veteran
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    Makes you wonder if its just easyer to farm fire's and trash from roiters to gain points at a steady rate.


    Which is kind of sad if its true.
     
  36. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I'm still gathering info for uoguide but I *think* it goes like this:

    Arresting Angry Rioters → 100 points towards positive loyalty
    Helping Angry Protestors → 25 points towards positive loyalty
    Putting out fires → 2 points towards positive loyalty
    Killing Angry Rioters → 400 points towards negative loyalty

    So you should put out 200 fires to reach "Commended" while arresting only 4 rioters takes you to the same loyalty. Killing only a single rioter will make you "Disfavored" and 5 will make you "Detested" ((?) : educated guess):

    Level 1 ("Commended"↔"Disfavored") : 400 points
    Level 2 ("Respected"↔"Detested") : 2,000 points
    Level 3 ("Adored"↔"Reviled") : 10,000 points
    Level 4 ("Venerated"↔"Abhorred(?)") : 50,000(?) points

    Do not bother with the fires. I didn't test the garbage yet, but I guess it is the same as putting out fires.

    I consider "Commended", "Respected", "Adored" and "Venerated" as "pure" positive ratings while "Disfavored", "Detested", "Reviled" and "Abhorred" (not sure about the last one) as "pure" negative ratings. If you both helped the city and killed rioters, you get mixed ratings like "Despised", "Disliked", "Doubted" and "Esteemed".

    I'm still not sure how killing a rioter affects your positive loyalty or helping the city affects your negative loyalty.
     
  37. Nails Warstein

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    I logged my character out venerated, posted on stratics that I am now venerated on him, I didn't play on this account for 36 hours, then logged in to discover that I am adored about 36 hours later, posted on stratics that this happened. Thus I didn't log in and do anything for 36 hours. Hope that clarifies it for you. Will this clarity bring prosperity?
     
  38. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I estimate that the loyalty decay is about 5% per day.

    So if you're adored, you need to bring in 5 protestors every day to maintain that level, and at venerated 25.
     
  39. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Holy smokes!!!! I hope not! I have other things to do in the game than work on this every day!

    Wow.... that would certainly stink. I may as well give up then. I only have a few days a week to really do much of this. So folk who only have a day or two a week may as well forget participation in this event...

    That's a lot of decay. Kinda overboard if you ask me.
     
  40. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    But i can fight at all, in theory i can fight in britain now and fight in moonglow more to get more.
     
  41. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Hello Fellow Mushrooms,

    As far as I can establish the answer to your question is NO. A further question might well be, why not?.

    Just reading this thread illustrates the annoyance this lack of information engenders. Once again we see this vast difference between what we the players would like and what we have thrust upon us, This lack of information is made worse by the apparently excessive speed of loyalty decay, about which, once again, we know nothing.

    I too detest spending time raising loyalty one day to see it has degraded again the next. I sympathise with anyone who has even less time to waste and has to waste it in pointless endeavour. I personally will now do less until I have some idea of what I am supposed to be doing it for and if this means I will eventually miss out because I never get to Venerated, sobeit.
     
  42. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    It sure does :), I am now logging in every day and arresting a few more rioters even at venerated. Thanks
     
  43. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    That is something I can't understand but it does make me ask another question:

    It seems that when your character's loyalty reaches 'venerated' status, a RAIDER shows up in the city somewhere.

    Therefore, is it possible that feeding the unhappy rioters, giving them gold until they are happy again, and arresting angry rioters might be what then triggers the creation of spawns of RAIDERS that come into the cities?
    Or, are the raiders a separate programmed seige that has nothing to do with loyalty ?
     
  44. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Seperate.
     
  45. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I've arrested well over 1500 protesters, but no new title in sight. Then again with the decay, I need to arrest for almost an hour just to break even.

    I also did some testing on test server.

    It seems that cities only start to hate you if you do stuff for a city with a loyalty higher than it is.

    For example, I had had city A at respected and some extra, and could work city B to respected without affecting city A. Then I could work city C to commended without anything happening to A and B.

    Then I worked some more for B, but suddenly A dropped to Esteemed and C dropped to Doubted. I could juggle it around somewhat, but soon was cought in a negative spiral where I couldn't get out of and no matter what I did, the overall loyalty went down. So yeah, for a short time you can actually be positive with everyone, but due to the decay you'll be unable to keep it that way indefinately. It also explains why people doing raiders don't seem to get any hits to their standings with other towns... They will, when it catches up. So don't do it.

    The 5x5 grid of loyalty titles someone else proposed as theory seems pretty plausable to me, especially with the way the titles are structured in the cliloc files.
     
  46. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    Can you tell me then if you think there are any titles higher than Venerated, based on what you know?

     
  47. andartshome

    andartshome Journeyman
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    i have never noticed any decay in loyalty

    1 ihave never got involved in anyother city
    2 i log out in the city im loyal to

    so either i have just been to high to notice any decay or loging in the city might help
    l have been idle for three days after reaching addored when i logged on i was still addored

    also i have just changed from addored to revered maybe a title between addored and venerated but i have noticed 2 other titles not mentioned by many on the way to addored
     
  48. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    These are the titles as found in the client files:

    Unknown
    Commended
    Doubted
    Disfavored
    Respected
    Esteemed
    Distrusted
    Disliked
    Detested
    Adored
    Admired
    Honored
    Disgraced
    Loathed
    Despised
    Reviled
    Venerated
    Revered
    Exalted
    Lauded
    Denigrated
    Scorned
    Shunned
    Vilified

    I personally know that it goes:

    Unknown Commended Respected Adored Venerated
    ...????.... Doubted____Esteemed ...????... ...????....

    With Doubted and Esteemed being reached from Commended and Respected when you **** off your town by working for other towns.

    As for the titles in the list, the only ones that have the potential to be than Venerated just going by the sound, are Revered and Exalted. And the poster above just spoke that he reached Revered from Adored, which might make it seem unlikely that it is beyond Venerated.

    I still believe the 5x5 theory makes the most sense, in which case there simply is no room for a higher title than venerated. At least not on this axis.

    Another system that could work is not on a 5x5 grid, but on a 4x6 grid with unknown being seperated from it. In which case there would either be two more titles after Venerated, or possibly titles 'above' venerated for which we need to do something to affect the other axis.
     
  49. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    So you've had admired and revered, which none of us had so far.

    Did you do anything special? Such as killing protestors or working for multiple towns?
     
  50. andartshome

    andartshome Journeyman
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    i have never done any thing in any town other than the one im in i have allways logged off in the town and ihave just changed from addored to reverd and been logged off for about 2 hours ill see tomorrow if i drop back to addored as i had only just changed

    i killed about 3 protestors by mistake in early days