I had been told that a Red's karma cannot go above neutral, I've never been sure about this one way or the other but it seemed to make sense. It's clear that you never see 'glorious' and so-on on a red's paperdoll but there's more to it than just that. I worked a red's karma on liches and lich lords. He worked his way up, and it went like this. At first, both liches and lich lords gave the "you gain a lot of karma" type of message. Then at some point, I noticed that Liches were not giving any karma-related message at all (hadn't been paying attention to that point, really). And then after a bit, Lich Lords were only giving him "some" karma. At this karma level, his Divine Fury lasts for 21 seconds with 75 chiv. He had started out at 18 seconds when he had some unpleasent karma level that was screwing up his Remove Curse. I have a blue with 70 chivalry and he's Glorious Lord, and he's seeing 20 second Divine Fury times. In light of that, it sure looks like I've raised my Red's karma plenty high (I think it's Karma that affects the Divine Fury times). So now I'm confused. If he were capped at neutral karma, should Lich Lords ever move to giving him just 'some' karma? Could he be gaining karma above neutral but the paperdoll title is just skipped on reds? Maybe the thing people have told me about reds' karma being capped just a bunch of confusion caused by the fact that a Red's paperdoll will perhaps mask any high karma titles?