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Clarification - Why were others banned and not me and how do I stay safe?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Trevelyan, Aug 5, 2008.

  1. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    This is the biggest question out of all of this for me, and it really needs to be answered officially - either on stratics or on UO.com as a footnote to the recent notice.

    You see, to me, I think the people who should be banned are those that dupe actively. However, trading in duped items becomes really really iffy - when an item is traded, traded again and traded some more, the real bad guys aren't the ones who get caught.

    So by what criteria (amounts, item types) were people banned? If it was because of what they owned, how can I know what I have isn't illegal? Is it just gold or is it items - is it too many spring cleaning tickets? How do you make sure what you have isn't considered illegal?

    This is really for everybody's benefit, since one or two people i've talked to have seemed a bit worried about doing anything in case they get banned (moving gold around, buying things, selling them).
     
  2. Rosalinda

    Rosalinda Journeyman
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    1. Launder all your checks. Trash all your items.
    or
    2. Leave UO.

    Can't see any other way ANY of us can feel safe, in the absence of any official clarification that I can trust.

    *living on knife-edge atm*
     
  3. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Right now, I can see no way of knowing if anything I bought from vendors, or found at idocs, is legit or not.

    I've had the sense to leave containers of multiple 'rare' items at idocs, but since I don't trust the protestations of EA/Mythic that they are in any way looking properly into the provenence of dupes, I reckon it's a total lottery if an account gets banned or not.

    I can't see it is even safe to lend items to guildmates, to try out skill-modified templates or suits, or even deco items so they can design a house the way they want, because there's no way for me to tell if the items are genuine and much as I'd be upset to have an account banned, I'd be way more bothered if something I passed on caused someone else to get a ban.
     
  4. RoycroftLS

    RoycroftLS Guest

    While giving exact guidelines and limits would help everyone, it would also tell the dupers out there exactly how much they could get away with and not get caught.

    So without an exact guideline and without a direct way to tell if an item is duped or not, what steps can the average player take to protect themselves?

    A little awareness goes a long way. If you have been around long enough to have the leftover funds to spend on high-end items, you should know the general availability and cost of such items. If a dedicated player can only obtain one or two of an item a year, and a vendor has been able to keep the item in stock consistently, that should tell you that something isn't kosher. In general, if an deal seems too good to be true, it usually is.

    Another suggestion would be to diversify one's high-end item purchases. Even the most sensible of shoppers is going to purchase a duped item or two, and the devs have taken that into consideration with their guidelines. But just as a portfolio manager wouldn't put all his funds in a single stock, you shouldn't purchase all your high-end items from the same vendor/person.

    If you follow those guidelines and play normally, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
     
  5. Fortyniner

    Fortyniner Guest

    We are all very concerned about this and the official response has been alarming. They have said we can get banned for possession of illegal items without giving us any information as to how to find out if something is illegal. As you say, we can buy things, or find them in IDOCs, and have know way of telling. Right now I'm interested in buying a Crimson, but there's no way I can feel safe doing that. Over the weekend I burned through eight barbed kits I'd been saving until I reached GM arms lore, because I was worried about being wrongly suspected.

    Jeremy - you have a very concerned community right now, which is begging for clarifications and reassurance. If community relations means anything, it means dealing with this major crisis in the community right now.
     
  6. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    As far as I can figure out, whatever answers Jeremy is able to give will, in the end, boil down to one thing - customers will be asked to trust EA/Mythic to get it right when it comes to bans.

    Sadly, I don't.
     
  7. Rosalinda

    Rosalinda Journeyman
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    Quite. What's been lost here is not only possible offenders, together with many innocent players, and their associates, but - and in one way this is far worse - the confidence of the remaining player-base.

    I am reminded of a situation from my own experience, when the company I was working for suddenly instituted a round of (apparently) random redundancies. No reason was ever known, and all we were told was that would be more. It's no fun trying to work in an atmosphere of distrust and fear, and eventually we were all laid off, a few at a time, but not before many off us were irreparably damaged by the constant anxiety.
     
  8. Rosalinda

    Rosalinda Journeyman
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    I can't see that anything safe right now tbh - they've banned ACCOUNTS, not removed ITEMS.
     
  9. SilentFoxXy

    SilentFoxXy Guest

    Just posted a similar thread, If its still here is it safe to trade.....

    Fully agree.

    I for one spend an hour a day going round 2 x 20 slot runebooks, checking vendors for new deals, attractive offers, bargains, possible resale profit.

    Having just bought 2 hig end arties , I suddenly though 'Ohhh Poooh, am I in the doo doo now??'

    Vendors, Traders, And MOST OF ALL, CUSTOMERS Need to BE SURE THAT THEY WILL NOT LOGIN TO FIND THEMSELVES BANNED FOR BUYING AN ITEM IN GOOD FAITH.

    This needs CLARIFYING, or the main underpinning of this great game, the ability to trade, buy and sell and collect, becomes null and void.
     
  10. Lady Aalia

    Lady Aalia Atlantic's Finest
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    as of right now while the items are still in circulation since those people have stockpiled loads of them i would use caution...

    If its one item you want for yourself you are confident the seller is legit , go for it.

    But i would stay away from buying bulk items that seem to be good deals till this is all taken care of
     
  11. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    It was safe before. Almost every player purchased items from vendors. Only those were banned, who purchased great numbers from dupers. Don't let yourself be influenced by false rumors. It is the typical FUD strategy.
     
  12. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Threads merged, we don't need more panic, we have enough.
     
  13. Azureal

    Azureal Guest

    I havent been concerned at all, until about an hour ago.

    Im now currently sitting at a rather large IDOC. Lots of chests with high item counts. Which will hopefully become mine :) But whats to say those items arent all duped previous to today, and that by taking them, and storing on my account that I wont later be banned simply for owning them?

    Such a massively grey area.

    Annoying more than scary I guess.
     
  14. Soulstomp

    Soulstomp Guest

    i think if ea has the right to ban , but then they also must clarify what all is duped in uo, so players will know and not be banned without knowing what happend , or at least clarify their method of tracking.


    how can you tell if you sell an item you get duped checks , how can you tell if you buy something from a vendor on well known shopplot that items are duped or not, i think the vendor owner often even cant tell , meaning if you buy items to collect or deco or usage on chars , taking lets say over a period of 4 to 5 years , brrr will not every player has a few dupes around by now ?

    i am not in panic , altough i must say i am totaly lost on ea's policy.
    i dont trade bigtime or shard transfer, never sold gold , but yes i do idocs and i buy a few things so now and then , so in general i cannot say if my acount is totaly clear of dupes or save from a ban
     
  15. SilentFoxXy

    SilentFoxXy Guest

    Oops I deleted, then realised it had been merged, so reposted...sorry:)

    Edited to include Vendors/Players, Not just Items...Thanks Rosalinda:)

    With the plethora of bans recently, and all the accompanying fallout, the question is in the title.

    As long as I stay away from Runic Hammers and BRSK,..............

    AM I SAFE TO SPEND BIG GOLD ON HIGH END ARTIES, From apparently REPUTABLE Sources.

    IE:-

    A Large, Veteran Set of vendors selling Crystaline Rings for 15m, and Crimson Cinctures for 15m.

    I bought them, to resell at 16 or 16.5, then started sweating.

    So, Am I SAFE?? Is this vendor/Item CLEAN

    What definately IS NOT SAFE??
     
  16. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    usual the rule 'finders keepers' counts for IDOCS...

    But not these days...it's safer to trash everything you find from an idoc...cause if you keep it...you might be banned.

    I'm telling you...it's unfair.
    people cannot tell if they are in possession of duped items or not..
    Aspecialy if you pick them up from idocs..there's really NO way to tell.
    So it's kinda unfair to then ban people for it...

    We do not have detectors or special abilities to sense...
    Most people then come up with the 'avoid bulk and low prices' crap.

    i'm sorry..what about the items at normal price? and idoc items?

    This really feels like people are running through a hedge maze filled with deadly traps.
     
  17. As a player, a customer and multiple account holder ...
    I played from Dec 1998 to Jun 2003, left then returned May 2004. The ingame "rules" I follow are simple ...

    Buy gold, materials or items from brokers?
    Nope!! Never once.
    Buy resources or items ingame from players?
    Yes, if I have spoken with them here or ingame ... or even hunted alongside them. If they have a track record for fair dealilng.
    Buy resources or items ingame from player vendors?
    Yes if priced within what the current market range is for the items(s). Again, track record/word of mouth is a good thing.
    Gather resources, make own items?
    Ummmm, duh! Yup. I have some crafters and where I fall short I will strike a trade with (example) an Alchemist for a keg of potions in return for some Carpentry or Blacksmithing items they need.
    So you sort of see what pattern of behavior is formed, right? Do I have millions and millions of gold? Heck, no! In fact I have less than 2 mill in the bank, never had more than 5 mil ever and would love to sell my white stuffy horse for the 40 mill I think it's worth.

    Am I likely to find my accounts banned and houses dropped? I don't think so, but there's always the off chance I screwed up somewhere - or my son did (he handles a couple other accounts than I do). <shrug> Time will tell.
     
  18. To borrow your post (hope ya don't mind a little plagerism :D):

    I've played since Dec 2004 and have kept my subscription active to the present day. The ingame "rules" I follow are simple ...

    Buy gold, materials or items from brokers?
    Once. I bought a Soulstone a couple of weeks after SE hit the shelves when I discovered you needed 2 to use them properly. I haven't bought anything from one since then, and have NEVER bought any gold.
    Buy resources or items ingame from players?
    Yes, but only if I know them from in game, or they have good word of mouth from people that I know & trust.
    Buy resources or items ingame from player vendors?
    Yes. I make a couple of small initial purchases, then watch how long they take to restock. If they can replace high end resources with seemingly infinite backstock immediately, then I stop. If they have a track record for fair dealilng and act as a normal player out gathering resources at normal rates, then I'll continue to buy from them.
    Gather resources, make own items?
    Ummmm, duh! Yup. Most of my resources, items, etc are obtained by me, for me. I have no doubt that the things I sell on my vendors or have for my own personal use were obtained 100% legally since I'm the one that did the obtaining.
    Do I have millions and millions of gold? Yes, I currently have close to 250mil in gold in liquid assets, but all of it was from sales of legally obtained items from my vendors.

    Am I likely to find my accounts banned and houses dropped? I doubt it. Every runic I have was obtained through normal game play, along with all but 2 museum/library rewards, which I purchased while Frostwood was still readily available to people, and came from a long time reputable vendor. [/QUOTE]

    Although the pattern is a little different, it's basically the same.
     
  19. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest


    I spend alot of time checking out vendors too for low prices and what not.
    It pains me that since I have been broke and have been shoping for low prices means I was buying duped items

    Fix your game
     
  20. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    I thought this was quite funny tho...
    Europa's number one rare collector is selling out.
    And we're not talking crappy every day rares...but server birth rares.
    if that won't attract dupers from accross every shard...

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Strawberry

    Strawberry Guest

    It's pure looniness that we can't shop for the lowest prices because EA is unwilling to fix their game. Anyway, the dupers always adapt, they'll start charging [market price - 10%] and spreading their goods out over several vendors. How will the EA apologists blame their fellow players then?
     
  22. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    I doubt this will officially be answered!
    They even refused to tell me -and others- what exactly where those "multitude of highlly illegal items" that have been found.
    Just some canned responses.

    Whenever i get a final-response from EA i would update the thread in the europa-forum (see signature please) so you an all check your account for similar things.

    Actually i guess it must have been checks which i stored in my house since i never took part in bulk-trading of rares&runics, neither i did i trade (buy&sell) anything for RL-cash nor did i even crossshard.
    If i was right, and checks are the reason for my ban, than not only buying dud items is risky, but even selling your legal items for gold could be risky, because a player is not able to determine wether or not a check is ok.
     
  23. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    Its just simple common sense Buyer Beware man. Is the price to good? Is he/she offering to many for one person or server to have? is this person a Broker?

    Im sure Mythic would not ban someone for buying a val hammer but someone who bought many val hammers w/o thinking hey why are there so many hammers on this server.

    If your looking at a vendor and it has many very high end items and is always in stock chances are they are either dupes or its a broker possibly selling dupes, Brokers dont care where the items came from ass long as they can bottom feed a profit out of it.
     
  24. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    Yeah hes been "selling" for months and asking pretty high prices. Never really sold much though.
     
  25. Smokey of LS

    Smokey of LS Guest

    yes lady mina... hemi has been sellin his rares for quite a while now lol nothin new, and if you go look in the bags on the counters in the house to the S of that house, he has it all bagged up to look at. again not new news :)
     
  26. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Jeremy answered all this paranoia in another thread.....you guys need to stop freaking out. If you haven't been popped by now, most likely you won't.

    Second, stop buying crap from people, there's more to UO than that.

    Same with idocs, if that's all you have, then I pity you.

    I bought maybe 2 items in the last few months from the shysters in Luna, and at the price I paid, I doubt if it was duped,.....but not being psychic, I'll never know. I also went flat broke, as I do not buy gold and support scripters, low lifes, brokers, whatnot.

    Having untold sums of gold only will tempt you to spend it on crap you normally wouldn't buy if you had to earn all your gold. For the most part anyways.

    My heart goes out to ya Jeremy, for having to deal with all the snivelling and child-like attitudes as of late.

    later:thumbsup:
     
  27. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    1. Take your tin foil hat off.

    2. QUit Cheating (apply as needed)

    3. Actually earn your self some items thru game play
    (No excuses here).
     
  28. Strawberry

    Strawberry Guest

    Do you really not understand that some people are upset on principle? I've never bought a runic sewing kit or hammer, but it bothers me that other people have been banned for simply buying items from a vendor. Their houses were deleted without them being given a chance to defend themselves. It's upsetting to see something unfair happen to someone else. Anyone with respect for justice and a shred of empathy should be upset by what has happened.

    Buying from vendors is part of the game and playing a merchant is a valid playstyle.
     
  29. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
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    See heres the deal.

    I am normally a "ban em' all, let the market sort it out" kinda person. Its just a game after all and there are many others.

    But in addition to the usual 1 post people coming to complain they were unjustly banned and the folks who is a friend of a person being banned, you have very high post count people coming on the boards and saying they don't really understand why their accounts were targeted.

    The official descriptions of reasons in the ban letters, the continued existence of obvious dupe vendors, the limiting of bans to a single account (is EA unsure these people were cheaters?), does not inspire confidence that the issues of cheating and duping have really been addressed in any significant way.

    If you ask if I am more inclined to continue my accounts here today then I was last week, the answer has to be a big NO. If anything it is in fact the opposite.
     
  30. It's been said officially that there should be one valorite hammer spawning per year. So meaning, in order to be 100% safe, don't buy valorite hammers. PERIOD.
     
  31. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    Jeremy gets paid to do her job
    Deal with it...

    All fo the above is totally irrelevant
    I shouldn't have to change my habits every time an exploit is common knowledge. Fix the exploit
     
  32. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    You're sort of missing the point here. Where are the limits drawn at what is legal and what isn't - i'm sure artifacts were pretty duped for some while so how can you tell what is and what isn't a dupe? If somebody legitimately earns gold and buys an item, where does it say "dupe" - theres no warnings anywhere about this.

    I think the people who were banned probably had an excess of exploited items but two of them that I know of I trust when they say they had no idea. Where has it been stated which items specifically were the cause of this?

    The point is still that innocent people were wrongfully banned, when at most the items should have been deleted and not the houses or the players. I don't really think theres going to be an apology, but it would be nice to know more details other than the ambiguous "exploits" and "dupes". And really, although I can see the reason in this, I think the whole not telling anyone thing has the wrong effect in this instance.
     
  33. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    I dont think many are missing the point. The people That Say they have been banned are long time players and there is no excuse for vets to turn a blind eye to exploits(take your pick for there are many).

    IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN BUYER BEWARE, Always!:talktothehand:

    While dev should fix the problems its still not an excuse or good reasoning to think non- action is permission to continue such deviant behavior.

    Playing a merchant has been and is still largely populated by Cheaters, scriptors and dupers(you choose). Should it be this way? NO.. but it is.

    You can wait for action by dev's or practice responsible gaming(you choose).:thumbsup:
     
  34. Zofinur

    Zofinur Guest

    And i fear this has turned additionally to

    Sellers beware!​
     
  35. smip

    smip Slightly Crazed
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    Here is a good rule of thumb to follow.....If it does not seem right it probably is not.. get rid of it. Unless you are REALLY new to the game, then one pretty much knows whats legal or not.
     
  36. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    This has been true ALWAYS as well. Window trades have never been safe from exploit, weight tricks where sellers item drops to ground and on and on.

    There has been warnings from the get- go, people just ignore them.
     
  37. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    He was referring to the fact that you can sell totally legitimate items - say that 120 swords scroll I pulled from barracoon the other day - to someone and be given duped gold. Say I sell that person 3 120's and now have excess of 20 mil in checks from them ... I now have to be careful to "launder" the checks in case they were duped, because I could get banned for having sold totally legitimate items.
     
  38. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Owning a ''Glacial Spell Books'' will get ya banned iam sure!!!

    I used to see a couple of players on Europa parading there glacial spell book at the wbb/ and luna bank.....

    Well !!!! im pretty sure this is an OBVOIUS duped item so i stayed well clear of em ...even though there was one for sale in Luna for ages at about 25m!!

    KInda anyone with one of these iam pretty sure will have been banned!! and lets be frank dont moan about it if u did...it was a plain simple duped item that u aquired by duping or buying knowing full well it was a duped item u were buying!! [end of story]
     
  39. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    I have seen No evidence from the (very few) if ya count the posted ban's, that selling legit items gets you banned.

    The ONLY evidence thus far is banned for having exploited items.
     
  40. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    The apoint was made above about the gold. Sellers beware - thats just ridiculous - how are you supposed to know good gold from bad gold?

    Not buying stuff from other players is like telling people who buy guitars not to touch the strings. Sure you don't have to do it, but it kills the point of even having it. UO is hugely economy based - there is a function for selling things through vendors so surely this whole system was designed around player to player transactions. Without it's player determined economy, UO would have died a long time ago, I guarantee. Its one of the things that has kept UO alive.
     
  41. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    UO has been driven by ambitious merchants for a long time aye, but they where over taken by greedy cheaters Trev.

    The I cant beat them join them way of thinking destroyed the economy(IT IS DESTROYED).

    Yes, IMO you should be concerned where playerXXXX is getting his money and why he is willing to part with mils for your items.

    Its all about players gaming responsibly. If you do so its real easy to pick out the players who aren't.
     
  42. Radun

    Radun Guest

    I couldn't say it better myself
     
  43. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    ..um It was Clarified... By EA Many times you just are not accepting it or your end of responsibility...even if you have to wait for ea and theirs. Don't know your responsibility, learn fast!

    Let me help, SHUuuuuN the Cheaters SHUUUUnnnN. Then Soon Its much easier for uo to right itself.
     
  44. IdoBods

    IdoBods Guest

    I wasn't going to post about these bannings, however, reading some posts cause me concern.
    I've been playing UO for years. I have never used any kind of assist program - not even UOAssist (my reasons being personal.. if I'm going to play the game and progress in it, I will do it on my own).

    I'm a computer dummy - have no clue how to dupe, how to script, heck I looked at the other post with the blatant PvP cheats showing in the screen shots and I had no idea what I was seeing. My point of saying all of this is - I have never and will never cheat/participate in cheats.

    My concerns?
    I am an odd bird - I LOVE filling and turning in bods - for last several years its been smithy bods. I fill 500 at a time (takes me about 3-4 days depending on my schedule) then I go turn them all in at once, getting back bods in return. Turn in takes several hours.

    I then go to my vendor, at my castle and put up almost all the rewards I get, and I sell them dirt cheap. Why cheap you ask? Personal reasons. I think the pixel crack in the game is WAY over priced. Average/few hours a day/week player can hardly afford anything. So I sell everything cheap. *shrugs*

    I KNOW my hammers/PoFs are legit and not dupes. However, am I now going to lose my customers because people are now going to be afraid to buy low priced things because I have them in bulk? Several of my long time customers have contacted and asked if I dupe, I explained I don't/never have/never will, and they say they will continue to buy from me.

    I just find it a sad day when the fear factor will keep people from buying cheap items for fear it might be a dupe, rather then the excitement from finding a vendor spot that doesn't believe in or follow the Luna insanity.

    I would like to see some kind of list of what items are going around as dupes- that would help ease the whole "I can't shop" fear somewhat. It will always be buyer beware.

    My last observation - my guestimation on how many smithy bods I have completed (both small iron, small coloreds, large iron, large coloreds) is somewhere btwn 10- 15k bods, and that might be on the low end, not sure, doesn't really matter. My point is the best I have gotten? 1 +60, 3 +30s, maybe 15 +15s and hundreds of +10s, 4 agies, one verite, lots of bronze, coppers, and literally close to thousands of shadows and dulls. (I had so many dulls at one point and couldn't sell them I was dropping in the smithy shop). Not ONE valorite.