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Classic Client vs Kingdom Reborn

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Nimuaq, Jul 28, 2012.

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  1. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    Many of us don't remember the Kingdom Reborn artwork, so I just wanted to share this without any comment:

    classic vs kingdom reborn 2.png
     
    #1 Nimuaq, Jul 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  2. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Good riddance.

    The only client I miss is the Third Dawn client. Pre-AOS.
     
  3. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Kingdom Reborn all the way. The best looking client hands down. Yes it needed work and had stability issues but anyone with half a brain can look at the differences in quality and see which one is ...I won't even say better...I'll use the term higher resolution.

    Kingdom Reborn was a step in the right direction. It's a disgrace the short sited Dev Team allowed the client to be sabotaged by the 2d Jurassics.

    I'll take Kingdom Reborn client over anything we have right now without a second thought.
     
    #3 Madrid, Jul 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
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  4. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    OK Madrid ...

    :bdh:

    Pretty <> FUN

    That's a fact.... I'd rather have CONTENT & a working game system than a "pretty" game missing those aspects. If it was a perfect world we'd get High Res AND Content / Bug Fixes / Reasons to PvP etc, but it's not a perfect world. I've been playing this game for as long as you & it sure ISN'T the graphics that made it such a blast. Diablo 3 is High-Res as you put it & definately fun to look at but ultimately I'm back to playing UO again bc "pretty" by itself just don't cut it... The only thing I find amusing is how vehemently you share your opinion on the High-Res aspect? Honestly do you think it will make a difference? I'm not trying to be Rude with this post, but it just rubbed me the wrong way a bit so sorry if you take offense.
     
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  5. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Of the given examples, I say the KR crate and dresser are better, the rest, the CC version is better. Based on clarity & quality.

    Definition: :rolleyes:2d Jurassics:rolleyes: - Those who stick with the older client because they are not convinced by the newer clients sales pitch's smoke & mirrors that it's New! Improved! Etc! Etc! Etc! They base their choice on quailty, performance, and appearance.

    Given that most players still use the CC, the EC makes for strike three on trying new clients. Hopefully somebody higher up the chain of command at EA decides to just convert the CC to the Dev's favorite programming language and just update the CC with the new features being switchable. Do this and put the time wasted on updating two clients into making the game more usable by new players.
     
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  6. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
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    I actually wonder how true that statement is now. From my experiences with those I talk to it seems it would be close to 50/50 on what client people are using. No way to tell, just personal opinion, the day they cancel the EC I will definitely be gone for good, as I suspect most EC users would be. Certainly the majority of 'new' or returning players I have spoken to are starting fresh with the EC so *shrugs* who knows.
     
  7. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    What I would like to know is why are they working on the enhance client into another 2d client, when they know that the players from the 2d client wont switch over.
    Make the enhance client with 3d or KR images, and stop wasting time making it a 2d looking client. We already have a 2d client. Make the enhanced client the way it should be new to bring in new players.
     
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  8. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Thought I'd throw in my comparisons:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not playing now anymore anyway, but the day they can the EC I quit paying.

    The classic client takes up less than a quarter of my screen and just feels sluggish as hell, with nearly no functionality at all compared to the EC.
     
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  10. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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  11. Kingdom Reborn, like Third Dawn, was an ambitious but rewarding step in the right direction. It's just a shame no-one has ever had the courage to go all the way...
     
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  12. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I suspect the problem wasn't courage. It was more likely what they saw in the records the game system gives them.

    They are going to have to come up with something at least nearly as good as the CC with the popular EC UI features available to ever get most players to use the same UI. I suspect everyone willing to downgrade to the EC to get the extra features has done so. If they will make a fourth attempt at making a UI to surpass or at least match the CC is something only time will tell.
     
  13. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Oy vey.

    The EC far surpasses the CC's UI (what little of one it has) in sheer functionality. You can't, or don't want to, see this because you'd rather enjoy a nostalgic 800x600 postage stamp with mid-90's sprites.
     
    #13 Martyna Zmuir, Jul 28, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
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  14. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Actually since I run my widescreen LCD monitor set at 1360 x 768 to avoid smaller than phonebook size text on my screen, the game window fits it very nicely with extra room to the right to overlap two clients if desired. :)

    I only require game graphics to be clean and look good. Sprites are fine if they meet those two requirements. Even D3 type **Wow!!** graphics are only impressive at first, then I get lost in the game content and the graphics become background to the content and are not really significant unless they are noticibly flawed somehow.

    The EC does surpass the CC in functionality, no arguement, that and being able to adjust the game screen view size are it's two strong points. Sadly overall it's not a good UI in spite of it's features.
     
  15. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I posted these back in September:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I think Stratics maybe resizing them down, but you get the idea.
     
  16. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I wish somebody would release a version of the CC UI for the EC for those that would switch if they had the CC UI.
     
  17. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I love the Gwenno grave and the shutters on the marble wall/window. I also love the loom.
    I worked so hard promoting that client. I was so sad when they gave up on it.
     
  18. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    Look, it's real easy to point to specific examples where KR's artwork looks better. It should look better; it was designed a decade later afterall. But there's more a game client than its artwork, and the animation, useability and UI of the KR client just sucked. Period. That's why no-one used it.

    Yes, some of the artwork was nice. No that didn't make it an effective or viable game client overall.
     
    #18 Spiritless, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    If: The EC does surpass the CC in functionality

    And: it's not a good UI in spite of it's features.

    Then: What does that make the CC UI?

    Perhaps your use of the term "UI" in your posts in this thread, the 2 clients thread, and the short lived (but well answered) UI thread is a bit off compared to everyone else's.
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Zym Dragon did a Legacy UI for the KR client when it was out and a Legacy 2 for EC, but the KR version was more "true" than the EC version. He also recreated the UO font from scratch now in most if not all player made UIs, so kudos goes to him for his efforts.

    Not wanting to step on his toes too much, I went a bit of a different route in the EC and did a Third Dawn UI theme that works with Pinco's UI. I have no plans on attempting a 2d UI theme though for various reasons.
     
  21. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    UO has the content, so let's not plod down this road too far. Vets might think things are stale, but for a newb UO is quickly overwhelming with its layered levels of content and mini-games (even conflicting and counterintuitive content!). Thus, we can turn some attention to the graphics.

    Let's get one thing clear: Mid-90's graphics aren't going to bring in floods of new players. If it were going to, it would have happened already. It didn't.

    The EC's world and item graphics ARE the CC's graphics sloppily resized 1.5 times. EC mobs were downgraded from the high-res KR versions due to the ludicrous claim they made video cards "smoke."

    Were all KR graphics superior? NO. Item graphics looked like they had been made from play dough by preschoolers and then sat on. Most of the environment art (housing tiles, plants, etc) were far superior to what we have today. I know some didn't appreciate the thicker walls, but apparently they think houses should look like they are made of cardboard (wooden walls in the CC are laughably thin).

    Several EC/KR mobs were changed a bit too much from their CC counterparts (Hiryu being a prime example), but overall they more detailed. If they would be re-released in high-res, they'd look far batter.

    The EC UI is what you make of it.

    Hotbars are just the CC's icons neatly arranged in user sizeable rows. Use Pinco's and "size" literally takes on a new dimension.

    If you don't like the paper dolls, use the CC version which is built into the client. Don't like the gridded backpack? Use the CC backpack which is built into the client. If you have Pinco's, you can merge the two styles.

    If Mythic had two brain cells to rub together, they'd either hire Pinco or buy the UI to include it's features into the default UI. (Hopefully, this would include Pinco's icons, as the default icons look like a tragic circus tent explosion.)
     
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  22. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    The KR version of the Moonglow telescope was just gorgeous.
     
    #22 Martyna Zmuir, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Really I don't think most of it is much better. Its arguable. On the other hand that treasure chest looks terrible.

    There were many other pieces of item art that were flat out horrific. There was also the problem that things just did't have boarders like the old art does, so stuff just kinda melted together a little. And the lighting effects made everything look glossy as well.

    I think KR was a good idea. I think they just needed to keep working on the art.
     
  24. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    I guess you can cherry pick 5 decents bits of art, but on the whole 99.9% of KR art was amatuerish compared to most graphics in most games today. Enchanced graphics. LMAO. Yet another EPIC art failure because a beautician is a beautician, not a plastic surgeon.

    I doubt anything significant will happen graphics wise now because all money is going into Ultima4Ever not UO.
     
  25. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    KR joins a long list of projects gone unfinished because the whiners scream loudest. Proficiencies. The Factions Overhaul. Some people would rather see UO go under than see it change.

    Yeah it had it's problems. It was unplayable in it's current state. The character artwork needed alot of work. (People care much more about character appearance and individualization than we have options.) And items such as clothing needed to be made consistent with their 2D and RL counterparts. (The Jin-Baori morphed into a vest. The Soul Seeker shrank to the size of a large machete. Not sure if these issues have been solved in the EC.) KR was released unfinished. And games that are released unfinished fail.

    But let's face it. It's not just about prettier graphics and new subscribers. There is a lot that - content-wise - the new engine could render that would cripple 2D.
     
    #25 WarderDragon, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
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  26. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    There are pluses and minuses to all the clients, you just have to decide which ones you can live with I guess.
    For example, I'd never have used that fountain as an example of the good art in KR, I think it looks horrible and the angle is all wrong.
    I didn't like the way everything blended together with no definition, that I couldn't see where the heck my character was under all that lush mush of vegetation. I didn't like that some of my char's possessions in their houses became totally unrecognisable. Newer artwork, yes, higher definition, yes but better drawn? Not always, not by a long way. I also didn't like the fixed, unmoveable icon bars - something that I think is much better handled in EC. I still don't like that my avatar in game is not as clearly defined, no musculature, but I did make the switch to EC - with Pinco's.
    I love that I can resize each individual gump. I love that I can have my backpack, but with an invisible grid keeping everything 'tidy'
    For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, here's a piccie.
    bags.jpg

    In short: I abandoned CC mostly because my graphics card didn't like being off the default resolution - But before I could I had to work out what it was about EC that caused me nausea and headaches. I never managed that with KR and couldn't use it for long, I did try, because I felt I should make an effort to move with the times. On the whole I prefer EC to KR. I by far prefer EC + Pinco's and wish that some of his most used features - like scaleable gumps and the pictured back packs, could be included in the default ui. Because the main problem with using a player produced UI is, if that player stops playing the ui is likely to stop being supported. Which doesn't help when future publishes change various ingame systems.
     
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  27. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    What people should try and understand is how the technologies are coming together and what the capabilities are going to be as they come together with the advances in hardware worlds that are more detailed than our own are now possible.

    It is very difficult to comprehend a world that has more detail than our own. Try to imagine looking around the room you're sitting in and adding detail to it.

    For example: Look at Assassin's Creed and the movement or GTA 5 and the world detail or transportation such as, TrainZ, then imagine all of these types of games coming together to form a new world where each brings something to that world.

    Another example: Scanning our world or objects and even people are just visual and map building. It doesn't even touch the detail of what possibilities there will be in the future. For example: The complete anatomy of a human being or a completely imagined anatomy of an animal that does not exist. The way water moves and how the stars themselves affect our universe for whatever reason the necessity of these systems becomes understood as we realize the lack of detail in the creation of our ideas.

    The way a horse moves and breathes, the way the earth turns and its' oceans change. The understanding of how human behavior can be mapped and even future events predicted. Not by the understanding but by simply being able to see it. A weather man looking down on the planet merely changes his perspective and to see a rain cloud moving can be much of an advantage compared to someone who must wait for the sky to first darken.

    So, when you look at UO and where it stands in this race and time doesn't really say that it is behind, just that change is growing more and more necessary to reach the same capabilities that worlds will become. This is the whole point of UO as a world it should be first a world so any advancement to the land or the trees or any object is a step in the right direction. Trying to redefine things will only work if there is room for growth and change.

    Every new world takes time to get used to and over time as we learn these new places they will become smaller, even our world and our universe will shrink and the need to look within and further out will continue to grow. We should also think about game play and look at it in a realistic way. There are some issues that still need to be taken care of such as, Factions and The Virtue System, Farming, a larger world for new housing. Yet here we are talking about old graphics vs. new graphics.

    I just read in the newspaper the ability of a human being and its' eye sight is only a small part. The mind takes everything it sees and changes it. Our ability to watch a movie is because we reason and put the pictures together and create motion. It's the same thing in video games, your mind is adjusting and changing so that it can comprehend the new world. It should be expected that there are changes and a time period of adjustment just as one might walk from the dark into the light. If you test playing any of these other games, you will find that you are placed into the world as a virtual being.

    It is very important that we make these adjustments so that we can experience what these systems have to offer, even if it means a generation must over come their ability to connect so that future generations can experience more. Just looking at the differences in the detail shows you that there is a constant change as from those graphics come even better graphics.
     
  28. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    You don't need good graphics to bring in a flood of new players. See Minecraft, or Realm of the Mad God (made up almost entirely of 8x8 pixel sprites). In my opinion, Ultima Online is failing because of problems with usability, accessibility and marketing.

    This. Some art from KR was good, but as a whole, the screen looked blurry and many items had wrong scale, wrong perspective, and wrong definition which made them blur in with everything else. It was very hard to see which items could be picked up and which were part of the floor. Many of the item graphics were totally unrecognizable. On their own, it looks good, but all together, it looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    KR made me quit UO for several years. I didn't want to go back to 2D, and I just couldn't use KR (I tried for several months).

    In my opinion, Pre-AOS 3D > Post-AOS 3D > EC > 2D > KR
     
    #29 Shakkara, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
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  29. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    This would be a very good thing. New Players who download the default Enhanced Client are getting a basic poorly done UI. Adding Pinco's work to it would improve the New Player Experience dramatically. The UI is a big part of whether a game is enjoyable or not and that thing that comes with the Enhanced Client download doesn't even rate up to being called bad.
     
  30. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Don't kid yourself, EA has more enough money to support Ultima Forever and both UO clients. UO lost devs and other resources before Ultima Forever even though it was profitable.

    UO right now is making several million in profit. Even just an extra million plugged back into UO would mean nearly a dozen devs and/or contractors.

    No game is responsible for UO being in the state it is. EA is responsible for UO being in the state it is.

    The good news is, UO can't lose too many more devs, otherwise they'd have to shut it down.
     
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  31. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    When is EA going to make Madden 2014 with Minecraft graphics? Why didn't Blizzard make Diablo 3 with 8x8 pixel sprites? Graphics do matter depending on the game, and graphics are one of the most frequent criticisms you find of UO outside of Stratics. Too many of us can't take a look at UO from the perspective of an outsider.

    EA could solve this by offering one client with a toggle for CC graphics and UI or high resolution graphics and UI.
    Usability could be fixed with work on the UI. That's what Pinco did - for a lot of us, the EC would not be usable if it weren't for Pinco. Accessibility....You have to make people aware that UO is actually still around and you have to give them graphics for modern resolutions, not 1024x768 CRT displays.

    As for marketing, if EA got serious about reviving UO, they wouldn't need to do marketing. Just look at how the media fell all over themselves covering Ultima Forever.

    For those who think that nobody cares about Ultima.... | Stratics Forums
     
  32. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    I have to agree that Pincos really made a big difference.. at least for me.
    I'm also one of those that like my old looking backpacks and stuff, but with grid layout.
     
  33. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I disagree. You're not going to attract the mainstream gamer with 8x8 pixel graphics no, but the mainstream gamer will not play a sandbox game like UO, period. Simplified, they go "LOL no levels this sux ballz" and quit. These people go for the games with either the prettiest 3D graphics or the simplest gameplay, so that'd be things like Guild Wars 2 and WoW and Farmville-crap, respectively. Games with which UO simply is never going to compete, cause we have a completely different genre. A genre that could attract the hordes of Mad God and Minecraft players, for example.
     
  34. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    EVE Online is doing better today than it was when it started nearly 10 years ago (over 400,000 subscribers these days), and at times this year it has had more people logged in at one time than UO has subscribers. While UO is a huge sandbox compared to WOW, EVE Online is the sandbox that UO used to be or wanted to be. As a matter of fact, the EVE Online creators looked to 1990s UO for inspiration on PvP.

    EVE Online didn't freeze their graphics in 2003. They've went through a few graphics upgrades. They prove that a completely sandbox game can thrive better in 2012 than it did in 2003.

    Which is ironic since UO has lost a lot of its sandbox feel, what with the itemization of Diablo, and things like item insurance.

    Since 2003, EVE Online has steadily grown, while starting around 2004/2005, UO has steadily declined. Clearly UO's current model is not working. Marketing is not an issue, since the media will care if something is done. Accessibility - UO has a two-week trial (that should just drop the limit but that's for another thread). At the end of the day, no matter how you frame it, people are just not coming into UO.
     
    #35 Woodsman, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2012
  35. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    And people don't play EVE because of the graphics, people play EVE because of the gameplay. In fact there was quite an uproar when CCP made the shiny new graphics compulsory, as quite a few people don't want shiny graphics, they want to run as many clients as possible. There was an uproar when CCP introduced shiny stations, because loading the fancypants station interior made it take longer to dock and undock.

    And as you admit, UO has MANY MANY gameplay issues, which is exactly what I have been saying. Hell, take EVE's famous learning cliff picture, UO is probably worse to learn than EVE. And I've played both. In fact, I worked for CCP for a while. But, as I have been saying before, sandbox games are a niche market. EVE is a niche game, not a mainstream game, and CCP knows this quite well. You won't get the Madden players in your example to play EVE, just as you won't get them to play UO. But you can get UO players to play EVE (quite a few migrated) and vice versa (which doesn't happen much as UO has too many issues).

    There are many niches where UO can get players from. But I tell you, graphics is not the top priority for these people. Sure, there are people you may attract with fancy graphics, but I fear that no matter what is done, it will never be enough for these people, as these people often expect 3rd person over the shoulder MMOs with full lighting and shading. I would personally LOVE to have Ultima Online with Titan Quest graphics - but unless the fundamental problems of the game are fixed, I don't think it will do much good.

    And just a little insider thing, CCP didn't just look at UO for inspiration for PVP. The whole scalable Incursion stuff was inspired by UO's Ork Fort. Ultima Online, Best Online, was on the opening slide of the internal pitch.
     
  36. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    What fundamental problems? Name them...

    The only major problems with Ultima Online are the low resolution graphics and the piss poor New Player Experience.

    "UO needs content". "UO needs to fix gameplay issues". If BS was snow I'd be in blizzard. Both of those are Red Herrings.

    What Ultima Online needs without question is high resolution graphics something on par with Titan Quest.

    No MMORPG is bug proof and all MMORPGs have gameplay issues it's the nature of the beast.

    When I log in to UO there is absolutely nothing that occurs where I say "This has to get fixed right away!"
     
    #37 Madrid, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  37. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    New Player Experience: Does UO even have a new player tutorial? I remember my first day playing...having the tutorial teach me to walk, attack, talk to npcs and quest givers. In Haven, starting off witrh some quests for some dude in a castle. Did it for several characters. When I was done with the tutorial, was I an expert? by no means...but I could get by enough at that point to learn in the world for myself.

    Now: It's like hey kid...look at this over here...(EA pushes kid into the deep and of the pool (and walks away ) (oh, and if its the EC w.o Pincos UI, then EA also attached a lead weight to your ankles).
     
    #38 LordDrago, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  38. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    If you start a brand new char using the EC there is a 5min very-mini tutorial that is really quite substandard when compared to what Old Haven and the ML & SE template-specific NPEs offered.

    (This is NOT a call to "return" New Haven to Ocllo, btw. Ocllo has no place (history) in Trammel.)
     
  39. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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  40. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Classic Client: old and it's a miracle that you don't need dosbox to run it :D
    Kingdom Reborn: probably the original models of the items were nice, but the transposition used a wrong angle. That could be easily fixed if they used 3d models instead of the 2d art.

    IMHO:
    Kingdom Reborn/Enhanced Client could be a nice client if they start to use 3d instead of 2d art and stopmotion mobiles.
    Classic client is worthless, just available because they are too cheap to seriously improve EC and trash it for good :D
    In short CC is NOT the future and neither EC in the current state, UO will be the best MMO around if only it has a decent client to play with... Unfortunately in the latest years they are gone in the opposite direction and the game is sinking :(
     
  41. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    While I disagree with a bunch of things you have said, I loved the Third Dawn client so much and really miss it, even if the KR one had better trees and things (but environment art and weather/ambient effects are big thing for immersion for me). But I joined UO with the release of Third Dawn so that might be why. =P
     
  42. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    While I do agree with Petra on the difference giving people real illness feelings and the look of the "still shots" are great.
    Dont get me wrong if you can stand the look moving all the pwoer for you. I and many cant handle the 3d in its liquid flow.
    Now I do agree that the 2d can be more "Enhanced" The clairity and graphics can be upgraded to a better look over all and not get players ill.
    In another thread some of the more knowlageable players in this field gave prime examples of what could be done.
    Perhaps the Dev could look into this....
     
  43. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    The devs are aware of them. Remember, the Ultima Franchise Producer was a 3D artist on Camelot and Warhammer.

    And Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Rift, Dark Age of Camelot, and Warhammer Online all use the same engine that the EC does.

    The problem at this point is EA. UO makes millions in profit. The reason why things are the way they are is EA. If EA can spend millions on a new Ultima game, it can spend a few million fixing up an Ultima game that is currently running and generating millions in revenue.
     
  44. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    You're right Graphics do matter, that is the "First Impression" that people get and we all probably have heard the saying about First Impressions being the most important. Graphics sell the game, not content. Content holds players, it's Graphics and usability that get them in the door.
     
    Lord Frodo, LordDrago, Madrid and 2 others like this.
  45. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Just a reminder.

    Between things going on behind the scenes, and the July 2007 Town Hall in Columbus, OH, here's what apparently happened to KR (stuff heard later contradicts, but given the choice I'll go with the persons I talked to in 2007, as they were talking about the events of recent weeks, compared to the later sources trying to remember events of 3-5 years prior)

    1. Art quality was good, and getting better. The engine, though, was having issues, and needed a lot more work.
    2. EA Japan committed to having a Box shelf presence by the end of 2Q 2007 for KR - and didn't ask EA in the US if that was going to happen before making that financial commitment.
    3. Rather than lose face and go back on their announcement (and all the ad & reserved shelf space, etc.) EA Japan forced the issue, and KR went into beta when it should have been in pre-Alpha, and release before it should have left closed Beta.
    4. As the game progressed, it became harder and harder to "fix" KR's existing problems while modding it to new changes.
    5. after a point, it became easier just to hit the "reset" button, and build a new version of KR, from the ground up. When one of the primary complaints about KR turned out to be the graphics' effects on game speed, the KR mk II client switched to using mostly the CC designs, and evolved into the EC client we know by the time of its release.

    Other than the graphics, the EC is what KR was intended to be. The difference might be analogous to comparing a plain-looking full-term healthy baby (EC) to its older, premature, sibling that was prettier but very sickly, and died from complications from its premature birth.
     
  46. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    That's some good background information, Basara. I'd heard hints before for why KR was released before it was ready, but never anything that clear. A question, though: Wasn't the Stygian Abyss/EC client still considered to be in beta, though, when we started using it in 2009? Has EA ever made any kind of official or semi-official announcement that they now consider it to be out of its beta?
     
  47. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    There were many things in the KR client that were superior... yes the banana trees were nice... The Housing menu was by FAR superior...

    However,.... Note the foxglove plant above... looks like SMEG. Does NOT look anything like a foxglove. Secondly treasure chests looked similar to old swayback mules... having stacks and stacks of them as many of us do it looked like someone had come into your house with a baseball bat and had at it. Was HORRIBLE... And what in my opinion looks like a polished mahogany wood very rich and opulent in the EC and 2d which was some of the Japanese style wall tiles.... in KR looked more like crap I took out of an old barn... so my Theatre which had looked rich and opulent looked more like it had gone into a serious state of disrepair and had been abandoned some 10 to 20 years ago and then someone broke in and beat things around with a baseball bat. Which I must say did NOT make me happy... top that off with the clipping issues of the tops of walls and doors sticking thru the floors and I was VERY displeased.

    Now we still have 100's and 100's of clipping issues I wish they could resolve. I'm so tired of having things sticking up and all... Wish someone in the graphics department cared.


    As for the pushing things out early to me I think that's bad practice.
     
  48. Damon Blackblade

    Damon Blackblade Journeyman
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    Call me silly, but I think the client would have been significantly more successful if they had done one simple change...

    UO always had a clearly defined 'border' between objects and background. They got rid of that and everything just kind of blended together. That 'border' on nearly everything in UO, from my own line of in-depth questioning of players, is what was really missing.
     
  49. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Sadly I agree with this... I still remember how my lovely theatre went from looking like a beautiful brick and polished mahogany building to looking like a sloppy laid brick with old barn board building... I hated it! Also hated the old nag style treasure chests.... chest went from looking lovely all stacked neatly to looking like some beat up trunk with a sway back like an old nag... And don't even get me started on the fuzzy, blurry look the client had hurt my eyes..... and what was a lovely garden turned to a pile of twigs with a few tiny leaves... looked like it was eatten by hordes of locusts..... some may have liked the plants in the EC but I thought most of them especially my lovely ferns looked like twigs...

    No what UO needs is proper support... It needs a functional database, website, and billing system before ANY promotion can be made... I'm fed up with hearing how people can't pay for their clients, have been forced into buying stupid game time codes, can't buy things from the stupid origin store without redoing the code format before being able to use it.... Tired of hearing how many DAYS it takes to get a GM or assistance with issues in-game..... Especially issues that if not given and IMMEDIATE response become totally ruined without one..... like bags of things falling under your house.... if this isn't resolved in the first hour or two than well..... it quickly becomes a NON issue.... not because it was resolved but because the person lost valuable items... and I'm fed up with the craptastic attitude of UO/EA that stuff like that can't be replaced...... or if you page a GM to fix your item and they destroy it....... can't replace it...... NOT a good way to keep customers or do business.

    THAT is what is "Killing" UO. And the inability to get any real help in getting old accounts restarted.... no one can come back to the game if they don't still have their 10 years ago email address, CC# and bank account... And getting customer support is a JOKE. One that isn't very funny and leaves the most bitter taste in your mouth. Until those issues are resolved not only will UO continue to fail but so will EA. And EA will remain the WORST company in the US. Period.
     
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