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Clean Up the Gauntlet 2011

Discussion in 'UHall' started by G.v.P, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Long before the tireless hours of peerless runs and mini-spawn farming, scoundrels and all-around no-goodniks scampered about the dark halls of the Gauntlet, a semi-formal portion of Doom where folks could strike it rich or check-out for a few months in an attempt at some real art. But where has it gone, man? The bat country is no more. No longer do the red-eyed dwellers offer skull sacrifices for jewelry, or a nice hat. But is imbuing the end of mass hysteria or can the Gauntlet rekindle the imagination, like an Interred Grizzle oozing acid just a floor above?

    On a quick count, the Gauntlet currently features 33 artifacts. At least six could be removed, updated, or possibly retired:

    -Axe of Heavens (480% intensity; can imbue better mods)
    -Bone Crusher (no SSI, Hit Spell, or Mana Leech)
    -Helm of Insight (non-medable, poor resists)
    -Holy Knight's Breastplate (non-medable, poor resists)
    -The Berserker's Maul (no Hit Spell, or Mana Leech)
    -The Dragon Slayer (no SSI, Hit Spell, or Mana Leech)

    Fourteen (42%) of the artifacts are still desirable, depending on your playstyle:

    -Arcane Shield
    -Armor of Fortune
    -Bracelet of Health
    -Hat of the Magi
    -Hunter's Headdress
    -Jackal's Collar
    -Leggings of Bane
    -Ornament of the Magician
    -Ring of the Vile
    -Shadow Dancer Leggings
    -Spirit of the Totem
    -Staff of the Magi
    -The Dryad Bow
    -Aegis

    Should EA consolidate the artifacts so the more viable are acquired easier or add new ones to get people back to the Gauntlet? Can new items work, despite imbuing? Would reintroducing old items, such as the Defiler of Virtue or the Petrified Matriarch's Tongue, hurt nostalgia, or would bringing back no-spawn items be an easy, coded-and-ready way to provide "new" content? If so, anyone have an old no-spawn item they'd like to see on the Gauntlet artifact list (or even some unconventional ideas, like a Dread Warhorse entrapped crystal)?

    I miss the days when the Gauntlet featured the best "stuff," and the "guaranteed" artifact system is the most user-friendly drop system in the game. Shame the mini-spawns didn't use something similar.
     
  2. J.B.

    J.B. Journeyman
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    I'm In! I like to do the gauntlet time to time and an incentive would bring me back more often.
     
  3. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    The argument for refresh can be made for just about all of UO. Doom, The Classic Dungeons, Ilshenar and the Peerless dungies can all use a little love.
     
  4. Guardian KX

    Guardian KX Lore Keeper

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    I want to argue your selection on one item... The Helm of Insight. That helm rocks and it was the first doom arti I ever got and was basically forced to use. After about one day of using it I decided it even rocked on a mage template. I just seems to me it gives back WAYYYY more mana faster than it should, and 23 extra mana itself is awesome.

    And as far as running a 25 dex hybrid mace template... Nothing beats the berzerkers maul.

    I can tell by your review that you are WAYYY to used to hit spells and leechs and not enough on skills. You'd never make it on Siege P.

    GL on yur clean-up quest tho:lick:
     
  5. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    I would argue against removing Dragon Slayer. The added DI helps when tangling with GD or the like.
     
  6. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Just re-enable imbuing on all artifacts.

    Alternatively, adding old, no longer spawning items to Doom would be a fantastic idea. The Conjurer's Garb and Trinket and Grimoire, Dread Warhorse in a crystal would be interesting.
     
  7. heheheheh ... dis-able the trash barrel mod for point turn in ...

    Locate the turn-in "bin" at one end of Doom ...
    Locate the rewards "boss" at the other ...
    turn up the general spawner OF Doom ...

    NOW ... clean-up doom

    *dust hands*

    Clean Up the Gauntlet 2011 :talktothehand: indeed
    nice presentation BUT ... you just wanting to BUFF the few rewards up
    "make them" more "useful" for Your perception ...

    You got the idea from Potter ... didn'tcha?

    [​IMG]

    Enter, stranger, but take heed
    Of what awaits the sin of greed
    For those who take, but do not earn,
    Must pay most dearly in their turn.
    So if you seek beneath our floors
    A treasure that was never yours,
    Thief, you have been warned, beware
    Of finding more than treasure there."
    —Inscription on the doors of Gringotts :danceb:
     
  8. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    I really miss the doom gauntlet days!

    Met a lot of people in there. Made some good friendships.

    What a blast is all I can say for Doom in it's glory days.

    Wtt all my stuff for Doom revamp so people go back.

    New or revamped bosses, same or new items just upgraded for modern times.

    :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:
     
  9. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    I believe the original plan was to replace all artifacts (stealable and drops) from time to time to keep the market from becoming oversaturated with specific ones like it is now. It would be a bit late to stop that problem, but its about time to replace them all anyway.
     
  10. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    This! I have long proposed adding the Conjurer's line of items (and maybe add a sash, boots, earrings, apron, and gargish equivalents) to Doom. I'd also like to see a Trinket with Demon Slayer too.
     
  11. Shiznit Bo'Bourbon

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    I think they should come up with all new sets of paragon and Doom artifacts, then retire most of the existing ones.
     
  12. sayler04

    sayler04 Guest

    Never did doom, but I'd like to try it sometime soon. I think having some of the more rare imbuing ingredients dropping in doom might up the population somewhat.

    This also might be a good place for the wings idea that someone proposed for a vet reward. Basically a wearable set of wings that allows humans and elves to fly. For balance, maybe they could add some sort of tamable, also at doom, that gargoyles could ride.
     
  13. if they add new items, they need to make it a bit more challenging. as it is, doom can be soloed by most players.
     
  14. Shiznit Bo'Bourbon

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    It can be soloed by a certain segment of hardcore veterans.
     
  15. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    If a revamped doom is a hit, then the few who could wont have the ability to so anymore as they will be competing with 10+ others at all times.
     
  16. UO-OU

    UO-OU Adventurer
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    I definitely agree they need to revamp the gauntlet and bring some excitement back into it. There's only a few artifacts that only still are desired but the rest have been out classed as time has gone by. My suggestion would be is to keep the current the drops as they are and not have devs create new artifacts that they "think" that we want. Instead, they can approach it in different way.

    1. give us the the ability to imbue them again for customization purposes or

    2. enhance or "upgrade" subpar artifacts that would give them a brittle property - this could entail using the base artifact (Holy Knight's Breastplate, Bonecrusher, etc.) as a regent and combining with other unused items (ie Stygian Dragon Head, Slasher Claw, Corrupted Tree, Mangled Dreadhorn's Head). Combining these items would produce a higher end revision of the item itself - kinda like the faction artifacts.

    This would still keep the original artifact in place but also create an option to upgrade it later if the player chooses to.
     
  17. Eddie123

    Eddie123 Adventurer
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    just make them drop new arties with faction mods..
     
  18. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah, most people is a massive overstatement.
     
  19. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    When it came out, the Helm of Insight was amazing. Then better items came out, like the Rune Beetle Carapace (which might as well replace it if not for the Faction item). As it is now with imbuing I can't justify ever using a Helm of Insight again, unless, as you state, I'm forced to use it (ie nothing else is available). It definitely had it's day in the sun, but now it's just a glare in the rearview mirror of the UO cosmos.

    Not sure if you're serious...you're acting like Siege doesn't have imbuing, or AOS, lol...also, what exactly do you think a "hybrid" is in UO? It's like you've moved the Gauntlet back to 1997-99, when tank mages were viable. Hybrid mace template, lol. Have you played UO since AOS? Even back when the Gauntlet first came out macers were complaining they got the short end of the arty stick ;P.

    By highlighting the maul I'm not saying they should add HLD / HML etc and make it a super weapon, just saying no one in their right mind would use it over modern options (you can get 50 SSI through other items, don't need it all on the weapon anymore).

    I think if the Dragon Slayer had 25 SSI and maybe 100% cold damage it would be a lot better (I understand why the devs don't want to slap HML on arties), but right now I'd rather use the Dragon's End, which has better base speed and better weapon specials. Still, if you have access to an imbuer, neither artifact is worth using. The DI can easily be adjusted with jewelry and a talisman, as well as certain armor artifacts. I agree the concept of a dragon-killing lance is cool, just that the lance is an awful PvM weapon in general (weapon specials, dismount in particular) and just was never that practical.
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Fail. We're talking about the Gauntlet, an arty system which rewards you based on points earned. :loser:

    Nice attempt at a troll. I think the only thing you accomplished was you let everyone know you're a Harry Potter fan, heh. Have fun perving, and don't worry, Halloween will be here soon enough.
     
  21. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Agree. The Gauntlet rewards players based on a point system.

    We all have to remember that UO is a game. It is fun to earn things for your "work" in game. The Gauntlet is fun for me in that regard. The Gauntlet would not be nearly as fun if there was nothing to earn. But that's just my opinion.
     
  22. pgib

    pgib Guest

    They could introduce a turn-in system like the tokuno one. Doom artifacts become "minors" and we get some kind of collector npc that gathers X minors for one "major".

    Btw, is there any way to know what the devs are working on, some kind of future plan or a developer's blog?
     
  23. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    I for one am glad that doom isn't as important as it once was anymore. Doom was the most boring and repetitive thing ever. Even chaining Barracoons is more fun.
     
  24. pfffft! and WHERE is the "clean up"?

    you're just wanting to buff up (not cleaning type buffing) some slots on some arties ...

    typical buff/nerf viewpoint ...

    Hey! knock yaself out .. it'sa good thing that a PvP God is willing to widen their horizon's to PvM and crafting ...
    there's also house design and deco and Role Playing to round your CV out with ... :lol:

    just emphasizing ... not much "clean up" in your "idea" ... :danceb:
    (and I was just "guessing" where you got your "inspiration" :lol: )
     
  25. Making the Doom fun and rewarding again would do no harm. Imbuing means everyone that wants nice equipment can have it. I guess my point is, why not?
     
  26. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Clean up refers to how the majority of the current Gauntlet artifacts are considered "trash," literally, which will be collected at the turn-in once it is activated.

    Just want to clear something up, my username is G.v.P because those are my real life initials. Some people think it means God versus Player or something PvP related, but it's just a shortened version of my name. :)
     
  27. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    you arent kidding.

    doom artifacts went to crap post imbuing.

    they all need beefed up.
     
  28. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I don't think everyone has the same reasoning. To me, an artifact should be the most powerful and you should not be able to craft it. The level a person can craft to is 500.

    The problem with allowing people to imbue, is saying, let's make crappy artifacts because in order to imbue something, it has to be under 500.

    If they allowed it to be imbued up to 600, it would make sense but again that takes away from it being an artifact because it's more like finding a used weapon and refurbishing it.

    If the artifacts don't have randomized properties, it will only be a matter of time before Doom becomes stagnant again and Doom will become a system that needs to be annually updated, which means players will only play for a short time before Doom is empty once again.

    Adding alot of new things to Doom would be a good start but it would not complete the system.

    Artifacts should also have more abilities where partical affects can be added making them not only functional but fun to use.
     
  29. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    So your middle name doesn't begin with a capital letter? That's odd.

    I give this thread 9/10. It not only presents an issue but a solution and leaves it open for discussion/debate/reflection. If all new content isn't in the works why not revamp existing content and give the players some more endgame dungeon crawling.
     
  30. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    this :thumbsup:
     
  31. if they give us new loot in the gauntlet, please increase the challenge it provides. as it stands, the gauntlet is pretty much soloable by most players. if new loot is being dropped, the dark fathers should have new abilities that make it hard for small groups to complete.
     
  32. and: His last name IS : P

    :talktothehand: pfffft!

    it is only another Minor adjustment/variation on an older larger argument ...

    Loot tables and spawner points

    From mongbats and sparrow feathers UP TO the newest latest greatest addition being discussed (Charybdis)

    Whats the LOOT is the usual first question and
    HOW to work the spawning of the carrier OF the loot follows (usually) in the same breath/paragraph
    THEN its over to how to make it more/less available to "protect" its rarity or make affordable to noobs (all)
    THEN the PvPers jump on the crafters and PvMers as to leave well enough alone (>you< don't PvP ergo: YOU don't know nothing ...)
    THEN (during throughout all parts and points) Its the Devs fault for Not knowing better
    OR giving it sooner
    OR coming up with some brbrbrillIanT! "idea" so that the issue wasn't raised in the first place
    OR having an EM directed Story line to entertain the posters so that the idle issue doesn't come up ...

    It IS an issue born of idle time ...

    A few slots on 6? arti's ... is all he's asking for ... right?
    solution is right there in the crafting aspect ... turn on embuing OR
    improve imbuing OR
    Improve resource acquisition methods (to imbue with) OR
    instead of nibbling around the edges >like< 6 arti's in doom
    Crafting revamp needs a looky see LIKE Loot table and spawner points
    "normalize"(scale)crafting materials against each other (cloth leather metal scale "essences etc ...")
    from aspirant tailor smithy alchemist scholar to Legendary (above Gmaster) Jack of ALL trades ...
    the more ya know the more ya can do ...
    :thumbsup: Clean up that mess and OP's 6?arti's ARE HANDLED right?

    Clean up Doom IS a >spawner point< topic (NOT simply fixed by: 6?arti's ) ... RIGHT?
    No? okay ... 6?arti's >cleans up doom<? if so /signed

    :scholar: i don thin soo ... ... :danceb: don matter teach! its just an idle minded thang. :danceb: thang ... bang shangalang gaga ding a dang
     
  33. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    ^

    :next:

    I would actually prefer to see all new (more difficult) bosses put in with an option for Doom Fel. But I'd say at least do this.
     
  34. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    We've gone over this already. Most players can't solo Doom.

    And most shards are so low in population that after an initial surge in activity, it will die down and then be near impossible to get groups together and impossible to get the artifacts.

    What difference does it make to you anyway? Go get a group together if you want to play in a group.
     
  35. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    When doom first came out I dont think anyone could solo it.

    There was no gdragons, mysticism, spellweaving, ninjitsu etc etc

    Gear wasnt as good as it is today. All the library, museum, ML, SA arties etc etc along with new skills n pets made doom bosses soloable to a very small segment of the community.

    Also just because some servers have a lower population then others doesnt mean that the higher population servers should get cornholed with no revised content.

    If they did small revisions in doom, leave the rooms and rotation system, put in new bosses per room, switch coding to drop new arties into bags etc etc
    then we got a hit on our hands for a whole year practically while the devs can make new content etc.

    You wouldn't need to "find a group" btw. Just like before, so many people will be there 23/7 that its all against monsters!

    This is just win/win honestly.
     
  36. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I vote for you as the new producer, right now.

    On topic, we all know that many parts of the game require a refresh. Any kind of really. Before that other parts need to be finished (i was kinda shocked when i found that we have imbuing resources with no know use: i mean, sa came out quite some time ago).

    We got a revision on t-hunting and it looks another virtue will see the light (which looks like a miracle to old players) so maybe something else will be done. I'm not holding my breath though.
     
  37. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    G.v.P is written for aesthetic appeal and for cadence. If you say G-V-P, the rhythm should be stressed, unstressed, stressed, which is best written with a lower case V. That's the rhyme and reason. :)
     
  38. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I think you guys raise a pretty interesting debate. I've only ever solo'd the Gauntlet with a Mystic mage, and it took such a long time that I wasn't really compelled to farm, I just wanted to see if I could do it. I know certain dexxers and bards can also get the job done.

    I think the teleport change was a good change. People can still limit Dark Fathers by positioning them against a wall, but for the most part, you can't lure champions into favorable positions now. Besides, the process of taking a Dark Father down takes a pretty long time even if you can solo, unless you have an old double slayer Demon bow and honor or something. I won't vote entirely against Gauntlet champion changes, especially since Shadow Knights were always fairly laughable, but I don't know if making the Gauntlet harder would encourage people to participate.
     
  39. i just don't think a boss that's nearly 10 years old should remain the same strength if it's dropping newer items. the only way to keep said newer items valuable is to make them hard to obtain.

    i see two ways of doing that, making them a very low drop rate, or make the process more challenging. i'd personally prefer a more challenging boss with better loot over the same doom gauntlet with a low drop rate.

    on a side note, i think it would help to add SOT drops as well, maybe even the replicas from champs in the Felucca Doom.
     
  40. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    the sampire template has been around as long as doom has, only difference is it wasnt exposed fully as quickly, doom/bone gathering was being done not far long after AOS was released. it didnt look like a solo effort due to overabundance of chars in the rooms :)
     
  41. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Remember when Tyball's Shadow first came out? His "shroud" drop had a cool color, two viable mods (INT 5, HPI 3), and it was easy to get on mostly any character. People farmed Tyball's Shadow so the devs had to buff it because noobs needed a way to get into the Abyss.

    I never killed Tyball for the quest, I always did the UNORUS quest, since it was so much easier. I assume most people do the UNORUS quest now, because hardly anyone went to Tyball's Shadow after the buff. Of course, demand also went down once the Conjurer's Robe (MR 2 DCI 5) came out, which made the Shroud of the Condemned looked pretty worthless.

    To use a previous example I posted, who, in all seriousness, ever used the The Dragon Slayer over other, non-artifact dragon slayer (or reptile slayer) weapons? The "dragon slayer" mod didn't even do triple damage back when the arty came out. In other words, some of the Gauntlet artifacts were never viable. I really don't see why the Gauntlet monsters should be made more difficult if the non-viable items are taken out or replaced by items which are closer in value to the viable artifacts. I look at it as reward balance. People still go to the Gauntlet to this day to get stuff like an AOF or an orny.

    After you balance the rewards, I think it's fair to adjust the champs based on how they all compare to one another, then go from there. For example, the Dark Father is fairly unique, and if you did solo the Dark Father he would take a long time to solo simply because he has a lot of HP. The Dark Father "room" is usually the road block, or the point in which people quit. However, Shadow Knights have far less hit points than any other champ in the Gauntlet, and their stealth ability has no real purpose because they don't have any special moves while in stealth mode. The Shadow Knights could definitely use a boost of some sort. After that, perhaps the Fleshrender could be looked at, since all a Fleshrender does is melee damage.

    There's only one Doom. But Khaldun could surely be revitalized in some way.

    From what I know, the sampire template first originated on Asian shards, then the idea spread around. Imbuing, of course, has made it very easy to replicate sampires.

    A well played wammy, sampire, or mystic dexxer with magic resist and potions can definitely solo the Gauntlet, but it's pretty difficult to stand toe-to-toe with a Dark Father once a Lich Lord and a Rotting Corpse are wailing on you (not going to to go into those people who used to use bone cutting scripts). Even if you can solo the Dark Fathers, you're using resources. Eventually you have to stop and repair your armor and restock your items.

    While the dexxer is always limited due to repairs, a mystic mage and a bard have much higher repair thresholds. As it is right now, all a mystic mage has to do is drop rising colossus and sit back. Some of the champs insta-dispel summons, for example the Fleshrender. However, everything eventually goes down since the colossus does Armor Ignore. It's a very OP spell. A bard, of course, is the most viable when doing Dark Fathers, then much less viable when doing rooms. It sure is painful to utilize earth elementals in a post-colossus world.

    The Bone Daemon, who drops the gold skull which gets you into the Gauntlet in the first place, does more than twice the base damage as any Gauntlet champion. It's hard for sampires and the like to tackle, and most of them are killed by bards, tamers, or mystics. Still, once again, a dexxer has to use resources and repair, while a mage does not. I believe the process of getting 1,000 bones, defeating the Bone Daemon, and running the gauntlet requires enough work for any dexxer template to be rewarded an artifact. If you put in the work, why not get a reward? On the other hand, a mystic mage, and a bard, to an extent (instruments break too), could stay and solo the gauntlet forever. Sampires are no longer the most viable PvM option if you want to stay in the Gauntlet for an extended period of time.

    Regardless, there is an easy way the devs could change the Gauntlet to make it more difficult for form changing dexxers. Simply have it so every champion can "purge magic," which would kick people out of form and remove buffs. Suddenly, dexxers can't solo as easy. Still, that leaves the problem of mystic mages. It would be nice if all the champs had a better version of insta-dispel. I would also like it because of all the noobs who use EVs on Impalers (Impalers have 100% energy resist so there's absolutely no point in using EVs except, I guess, to slow the Impalers down). Honestly, a better form of insta-dispel seems more important to me than a sampire/dexxer nerf, but I think a lot of people overlook how OP mystic mages are in terms of PvM efficiency.

    Anyway, champ balance and reward balance are two different things. I agree the champs should be looked at, especially the Shadow Knights, but I do not feel the champs need to be made more difficult to "stop dexxers," because they are constantly using resources to stay in the Gauntlet. For example, an AOF sells for around 6-7 mil, while The Dragon Slayer sells for 250k. If you assume the drop rate for every item is the same, the AOF is twenty four times more valuable than The Dragon Slayer. If there were serious concerns as far as Gauntlet farming goes, the AOF would sell for a lot less. I mean, honestly, DCI is so easy to get now, and you can imbue 20 LRC, 8 LMC, and 2 MR on a chest piece which has over 50 total resists. If not for imbuing and the over abundance of DCI items we have now, I think the AOF would still sell for around 15 mil; for the AOF to still have a 6-7 mil price tag tells me the Gauntlet has not been over farmed but rather the AOF is viable while some of the other artifacts, like The Dragon Slayer, isn't viable (and never really was).
     
  42. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

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    I don't want the devs to break the Gantlet... just add a new loot table to make things different. Leave the bosses alone as they are still a decent challenge. One thing I think would be very cool, is to re-enable imbuing on the Doom Artifact 11 drops and give Artifact 11 drops a max imbuing weight of 550.

    -OBSIDIAN-