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Coffee cup uo? Try the EC

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mervyn, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Credit where credit is due, some of the mods and skins the uofans have made are really nice and they've put a a lot of hard work into them, and have made lots of nice improvements the devs should've done a long time ago.

    However, with some of the mods and advantages to EC and coffee cup style enhancements, is there really much difference between some custom UIs and banned third party programs?

    Should we be locking the client down so it's less customizable and everyone is on a fair playing field?

    Discuss
     
  2. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    pardon my french, but wtf are you talking about? Coffee cup style? I think that there are no customizable advantages that can't be had in one way, shape or form with the UO UOA combo for instance. Care to be a little more descriptive?

    I agree with the first part of your post. Pinco should get a statue at EA. His mod is what makes the EC playable and competitive in PvP. Not superior, but competitive. Great Job!!
     
  3. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    Everyone is on a level playing field. You can find the relevent links to the EC on the UOHerald website and in the EC forum. It is your choice whether to use the EC or not just like it is my choice to refuse to use UOA.
     
  4. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    True story

    But for a new player installing the game, they're not automatically going to go to some random EC mod website and extract pincosui.rar to c/programfiles/screwthisletsplaywow
     
  5. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    :dunce:Why would they want to do that anyway? New players need to be learning how to play, not screwing around with their client.

    You remind me of a kid I was reading posts from in another forum... she was griping about how it wasn't fair that some people had rich friends in some game and could therefore get a head start on stuff, but she and some other people didn't know anyone really rich so they were at a disadvantage... so the devs of this game needed to change stuff so everyone was on a level playing field. Things like not being able to give away your money (whatever currency they were using) because that would be unfair to other people if you did that.

    It's B.S. ....Please stop. :thumbsup:
     
  6. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    You mean the same as the new WoW players who won't go to Curse, download and extract bartender.zip/recount.zip/msbt.zip to C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\Interface\AddOns? Oh wait....

    Client mods aren't a problem for new players. Once they speak to a few people, they're usually suggested by them to improve a shortcoming that they've noticed by themselves. Addons and client mods are pretty much expected by people these days.
     
  7. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I'm not downloaded anything from people I don't know, no matter how nice or how good of a rep they have. That's asking for problems, and I'd like to be more secure with my computer than that.

    I don't like that games are allowing this. I like it even less that they are encouraging this so as to be "in". And I don't like that these games want to do less and let gamers do more at my risk. And truthfully, I don't like it at all that internet geeks demand that they be allowed to geek up the internet and the parts of it I'd like to use too.

    Just my opinion.
     
  8. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    My view, is that, after years of tweaking my interface/,macros, i've the perfect setup, and i feel as though i've a huge advantage over everyone else's setup, and have to spend a long time telling new players what uoassist setting and uomods etc to download, if people had a good default setup in the first place and limited ability to mess it up, i'd have less of an advantage over new players.

    Speaking as a gimp red factioner
     
  9. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    I've been back for a couple of years now, and still haven't bothered to get either uoassist or mods. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have, I've just been too lazy to do it (mods). For what it's worth, I don't feel like you have an advantage over me.

    Speaking as a pvp thief ^.^
     
  10. Delbrie

    Delbrie Lore Keeper
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    Wow that is rather pompus of you. Im willing to bet there are players that feel the same way and could probably school you and your perfect set up every now and then. I would put money on the person who knows how to play his template and the involved strategies over someone who just tweaks to demonstrate how tech svy they are. IMO.
     
  11. covert

    covert Journeyman
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    I think the stability of the EC is plenty enough of a hindrance to anyone attempting to gain advantage by using it.
     
  12. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm sorry but the way I feel is it's out there... the EC is good and meant to have MOD's... it's designed so we can add mods we think are important and good for our game.

    And if someone were talented enough like Pinco to build their own mods' and nice enough the share hey.... far be it from me to complain.

    Now if you chose not to use it that's your choice. That's like saying everyone has to have cable TV..... sure it's nice and it adds a bunch of channels you wouldn't normally get to watch and say that's nice...... but maybe some people don't want all those channels. Doesn't make anyone any better or worse off.... it's everyone's own choice.

    As always the game is what you make it. If you chose not to use what's available that isn't my fault... if that puts you at some sort of disadvantage again that's not my fault. You can argue about it till your blue but the bottom line is ..... it's YOUR choice how you play the game. No one forces anyone to use UOAssist.... or the EC with or without mods. And yes the EC does have advantages over 2d. But it has many disadvantages as well. For one the Circle of Transparency in the EC stinks... that's the nicest I can put that...... it PALES in comparison to the CoT in 2d. Magery is better in some aspects in the 2d client vs the EC.

    But when it comes to macros and changing out weapons, armor and talismans.... the EC wins hands down with or without any Mods.

    Some people play using "gaming" keyboards... and speedpads.... is that some advantage? Yes and no..... of course it makes things somewhat easier..... but again that's a choice made by the player.

    So..... My answer to your question is.... it's a choice free to each and every player... What you do with your choices is up to you.

    However I do not condone cheating using 3rd party apps... that are NOT approved. UOAssist... and UOCartographer... UOAutomap.... that's all good.... but somethings are NOT.
     
  13. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    I still haven't actually crashed on the EC. I am a thief. Deaths to other players... In a month I have died 3 times to SL or Min at yew in 1 night. Once to 2.0 when 4 of them were fielding a star room. Oh and I had a wrestling match with Drakeon and Trammie, both of which I lost, but they don't really count do they?

    I am a naked thief.

    EC roxxors the soxxors IMHO.
     
  14. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    So, does that mean people with gaming computers that are maxed out by todays specs are at an advantage over people running the game on old computers? This may be a streatch, but again people have a choice if they want to upgrade their computer or not---just like they have the choice to use the EC over the CC. Are you going to ban me because I am running 6 core processors?

    Wait, I pay an extra $20.00 a month to Comcast so I can have faster internet--do I have an unfair advantage?

    I could probably go on, but there are so many things that could or could not give someone an "advantage" if they only used it. The thing is, these so called "Advantages" are available to everyone if they choose to use them just like the EC.

    By the way, Thanks Pinco for the Awesome work you do and allowing others in the community to use your MODs!
     
  15. Humph!
    Please to define your "coffee cup" term ...
    IF this: StyleSheet Maker | CoffeeCup Software

    Then
    No, we should not lock down the client ... we're talking about >>individuals interface<< with the client
    THAT should remain as is, and >should< move to ever higher levels
    (individuals ability to customize >their< interfaces)

    The client should remain as locked down >as is< re: fiddeling with the client
    AND should also raise the degree's to which the client is locked down
    via bug reduction and abilities to create/exploit such bugs.

    there is a GREAT difference.

    you may work that out on your own as to HOW there is a possibility of "difference" at all.
     
  16. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    But why are players allowed to flaff about so much with mods and enhancements on the enhanced client, and scripts and non approved third party programs are banned on CC?
     
  17. 4th3ist

    4th3ist Journeyman
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    To the best of my knowledge, scripting programs like the ones that allow people to macro unattended and run infinite loops and complicated pathfinding etc, none of that is supported on the EC.
     
  18. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    EC comes no where close to the 2d scripting programs, They have a very poor feedback loop. So you could setup a macro to fish 100 times, but it can't move the fish anywhere, nor move the character if the fishing spot is fished out etc.

    It is VERY limited, And for good reason.
     
  19. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Yes, welcome into these player's computers, where many of them do their online purchases and credit card use, PayPal, even banking.

    I wonder if Pinko can absolutely guarantee against hacks, even his/her/their own systems? I wonder if EA can?
     
  20. Meat Elemental

    Meat Elemental Journeyman
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    Lol if your that paranoid nothing you do online is 100% safe...
     
  21. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Especially not safe if you're going to download programs from people you don't know.
    And it's not just this guy. It opens up to an entire system where people are encouraged to get these downloads. They'll look around and choose, and what they choose may not be on the up and up. And these companies are encouraging it. This is a time bomb, if it hasn't already happened. And the worst thing is that none of these people are going to talk about it when it does, they have too much invested in the system working. Only if it hits the news will people know, and only if they are awake enough to notice.
     
  22. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Wow, the misinformation runs rampant in this thread I have no idea where to begin.

    1. UI mods are legal and fo rthe most part are either stylistic in nature or informative. There are a FEW scripting things we can do with the UI mods, but even they are VERY limited compared to actual external hack programs for the CC (including UOA).

    We can change some of the ways the UI looks, but we CANNOT change the ingame graphics, so a UI texture package is NOT the same animal as the "Stump hack".

    Most of the extra information in the Enhanced UIs are already available, we just moved the location to somewhere more accessible and/or visible

    2. Everyone has access to the UI mods, they are 100% free, the Exchange is an approved UO fan site and Pinco's site is also 100% safe. The only reason NOT to use the mods is either lack of awareness or choice.

    As long as you get your mods from the Exchange or Pinco's site (or any other UI mod author's site DIRECTLY), you will be fine. All of the code is 100% openly visible, nothing is done via .exe or behind the scenes.
     
  23. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    I guess you never leave your house for fear you may be run over by a car or struck by lightning, or some other random act!

    Thanks Dermott of LS, you said what I wanted to say, but in a much better way!
     
  24. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    I mean no offence, but you are being overly paranoid. I will assume you never used UO:A if you have such concerns so you just run UO basic. So I think you are losing out (whether you play 2D or EC). You can keep your system secure and still download things you know, you just need to be careful about it.
     
  25. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    You have gone from the EC sucks, mages are not playable in the EC, spells casts slower etc from your previous posts to your current view that the EC (with the UI mods it allows) has unfair advantages over the CC.

    You do seem to have a lot of issues with the EC.



    The problem with many posts I see when folks say "Discuss" on this board, is that most of the times there's an agenda behind it. These folks have already made up their minds and "Discuss" is not a true attempt to accept that others may have a different viewpoint, but rather, it's just a veiled attempt to manipulate others under the pretense of discussion.

    I hope that's not what the OP is trying to do.

    Of course, my post here is also an attempt by me to manipulate others (at least into not being manipulated).
     
  26. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    And is going to tugsoft to download UOA for the CC to c/programfiles/iamwaitingfordiablo3 any different?

    I say this because the point from your OP is suggesting that the EC should be less customizable, but take no account of what UOA does.
     
  27. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    I won't say that I don't have an agenda, opinion, bias, whatever you may wwish to call it.

    I will say that I do try and clear up misconceptions and misinformation if and when I can, especially on a topic in which I am directly involved (UI modding in this case).

    Am I pro-EC? Obviously, but can I admit to the faults the EC has? Again, obviously and I have done so quite consistently, so it's not blind "fanboyism", although it does have a specific point of view.
     
  28. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    Funny how this thread derailed from the OP questioning if the EC is providing unfair advantages to a discussion about the safety of downloading from Pinco's website. In my post, the one following the OP, I asked if he cared to explain what advantages he actually was eluding to exactly, and what he meant by "coffee cup". He has chosen not to answer those questions, but I would contend that there are no client specific advantages that would result in an unbalanced playing field. Most of the EC macro capabilities are an attempt to mimic the possibilities of the UO UOA combo. The mods, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, just shuffle things around and make them a bit more available. Personally, I am more pissed off at the classic client defenders, as their "mods" include scripting programs that clearly allow a disadvantage to persist both in PvM and PvP. Apart from their legality, it is a fact of life that a lot of people use those "mods" (without any fear of attracting diseases by downloading them from various websites I might add) to their advantage in various aspect of the game and thereby creating an unbalanced system. So maybe we should just can the old client altogether?

    Not really arguing that, but I think the leading questions by the OP are sort of a anti-EC troll in disguise. The imperative "discuss" is almost even more annoying, particularly followed by instant derailment of his own thread by the OP.

    At any rate, I will continue to download Pinco's updates, as well as things like cartographer. Just use a condom, or virus scanner etc.
     
  29. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    How would a person know? They wouldn't until a keylogger is detected, and it may not be detected at all. This is a major problem, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's not already rampant in the gaming MOD downloads that are all over the place now.
    Thieves sell this info, so connecting to where it came from can be hard.

    You all are taking a big chance. WoW has had problems with keyloggers with accounts hacked. What makes you think keyloggers aren't being used for identity theft? And most people might not ever know where they picked it up from.

    Identity theft from keyloggers is a fact of life. I don't know where you get "paranoid" from.
     
  30. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    There are no executables in any of the UI packages, texture packs, icon packs, enhancement packs or other such downloads from either Pinco's site or the Modder's Exchange, thus there are no keyloggers in any of the packages from either site.

    I state this as a UO Mod writer who has released packages and use packages from BOTH sites.

    As for the leyloggers in WoW, given the fact that WoW has a LOT more lesser computer savvy players than UO does (being much more mainstream, it attracts many people who know just enough to turn on the computer and to run their basic programs (WoW, IE, Email)), most of the keylogging events in WoW are NOT done via the UI Mod packages (I used several when I played WoW, mainly the Cosmos package at the time and Gatherer added in), but through Phishing emails.
     
  31. *adopts polite Pashtun accent*

    Oh my goodness sir ... you must not be aware of the marvelous capabilities of the anti-virus software currently available to scan any and all files downloaded from the internet so as to allay your fears of any possible contamination.

    *Alialeah properly wipes blood from blade*
    [​IMG]
     
  32. Delbrie

    Delbrie Lore Keeper
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    Who cares, let us make up our own minds and play the game the way that gives us the most enjoyment
     
  33. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Do people even bother to research and actually use something before they post any more? lol.
     
  34. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Did you do any research?

    Do you make a habit of sticking your hand on the burner to see if it's hot?

    Indeed.

    But understand, I'm not accusing anyone in particular. I'm saying that this environment is risky. It's not just UO Mods, it's the entire environment. It's not safe. People generally do not have enough security to catch every type of keylogger, or to be 100% safe against hacks in general.

    And if you, dear reader, have not sought out and bought all the available security systems then you are as much at risk as anyone else who ever downloaded a keylogger or other spyware.

    And I think it sucks, but is a sign of the "give-me, give-me" times, that these companies and some players are moving in this direction. It's not a good move. While the gaming industry has been suffering from the lowest common denominator trap, if a newsworthy item of this nature comes out it's only going to make matters worse.
    And they were starting to lose the "geek" tag and move into "mainstream". But there's always that tendency to circle around and go back to your roots.
     
  35. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Reason i didn't respond to your question about what advantages EC has over CC is because there are so many, and so obvious, your question wasn't really worthy of my time, however since you insist:

    The mobiles bars that allow you to automatically bring up the bars of other players, are a huge advantage in pvp, and the "select next mobile" in classic client doesn't compare.

    You can insta change weapon from a choice of unlimited weapons rather than just previous weap on CC (which gets broken if you're disarmed or use a bola)

    Faster movement around corners

    More obvious warning messages about important debuffs.

    Ability to arm both left and right hand instantly after using a bola.

    People are right in that the EC and it's mods are available to everyone, however as yet the FCR issue in EC has not yet been resolved.

    I guess when they fix that we can all migrate to EC, but i still think some of the above features should be available on CC, as there are those out there who prefer the CC graphics.
     
  36. Meat Elemental

    Meat Elemental Journeyman
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    The cc still has some advantages over what ec has, you have the choice of which to use.
    I'm sure if the devs could add stuff to the cc they would, but its a 13 year old program, look at how small tweaks end up breaking other things. I'm sure most cc users like it the way the cc it is now.
     
  37. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    UO Mods != Programs


    Please take your UNINFORMED paranoia elsewhere. You know not of what ye speak. Stop spreading fud.
     
  38. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    File extensions used in UO UI mods:

    .XML (defines uses and placements of UI textures)
    .LUA (UI scripting language)
    .DDS (texture/graphics files)
    .TXT (Modder written readme and credit files)
    .TTF (Added font files)
    .MOD (XML files for Enhancement Mods that are NOT part of the base UI)

    Now I want Trebr to provide us an example of a keylogger that uses any of the above file types to operate.
     
  39. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    What's that got to do with anything? If someone adds on a keylogger, how would most gamers know they got that too?
     
  40. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Trebr, paranoia bad.

    Mods for the EC and NOT executable. They don't "run" as a program. They are a bunch of files that explain to the client what the UI should look like.

    A keylogger is a program that would need to be executed by the OS.

    A EC mod cannot contain a keylogger.
     
  41. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    If you download something from someone, it does not have to be just the Mod.
     
  42. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Sigh.

    Let me break it down further then.

    Mods are put on the sites in zip files, thus when you download it you can SEE what is included before any of it is "active" in the client.

    Mods are NOT programs, nor do they execute programming "code." The client is rather locked down in this respect. A keylogger would require an .EXE (there are NO executables in EC mods)

    The EC simply uses these files to determine how the UI elements are displayed and how the user can interact with them. The mods can ONLY do what is ALREADY available in the client, the modders simply do it better than the Devs.

    Furthermore, most people have a an antivirus/spyware program. If they don't they're morons and pretty much deserve what they get.

    Your paranoia about this issue is unfounded.
     
  43. EX_UO Player

    EX_UO Player Guest

    Sigh.

    Let me break it down further then.

    Well said and very well put.

    You have higher chances of getting a keylogger by swapping files with people you hardly know on icq then you would a site.
     
  44. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Yeah, yeah, it's all perfectly safe out there. There's no cyber crime. People never get tricked into spyware. Never happens. Gotcha.
    But still, even so, remember to not download things from any but trusted sites.
     
  45. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Trebr, seriously...Give the paranoia a rest.

    Nobody is saying that the internet is full of love and moonbeams. We all know its full of hate and porn...

    The EC mods aren't the spawn of satan. They are "safe" by the nature of the type of files they are. They aren't executables.

    As EX_UO_Player said, you are more likely to get hacked from ICQ or emails...or simply surfing the internet.

    Plus, since there is only a handful of EC modders the list of suspects would be very short. But seriously, a decent AV suite will protect you.
     
  46. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Hm ... how can you do something better than the devs if your mod is controlled by what the devs have allowed you to do? ;P just a thought, I know you like to say the devs suck and all, but any mod a player designs has to function based on what is already set in place. It's not like the EC modders are writing code from the ground up, so to speak. I mean, once they allow us to add our own graphics, and content, and it becomes Second Life, let me know.
     
  47. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    The Devs only wrote the underlying code...or rather...bought it. The modders take the functions and actually make them useable. Look at the default EC UI and then take a look at Pinco's.

    You can't possibly miss the differences, improvements, and general awesomeness.
     
  48. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I don't think he's saying that modders are hackers trying to steal your accounts. But it is naive to think someone can put a file up for download under any circumstance... and it will remain 100% safe. That it can't be hacked and re-directed or embedded with a 0-day exploit. It is extremely unlikely, UO isnt a big enough phish, but not impossible.

    And FYI executables don't start out as .exe files. Even the weakest security will block that. They start out as keylogger.anything files and are renamed keylogger.exe, after they are downloaded, by some tiny embedded script presented with the original download or added in later through some other means. And a decent AV suite will definitely help to protect you, but will not render you invulnerable.
     
  49. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    If in the original post, you have suggested that the features should be made available to the CC instead of calling for a nerf to the EC, I would have agreed.
     
  50. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I don't disagree on the awesomeness the modders provide, just saying I don't think you need to trash the devs in order to give the modders props. No, the default EC isn't anywhere near perfect, but the CC is still king and the devs have little reason to improve the EC the way the modders have.

    The only thing that bugs me about some of the modders though is when they put in extraneous clutter, like version numbers you have to push aside and not click on during play. I honestly just delete that code when I find it, heh. Oh, and update checks, I hate that too.