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Combat points...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by chad, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. chad

    chad Sage
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    Bring back human JOAT attributing to it. This game is becoming extremely one dimensional. At least open up template variety.
     
  2. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Huh?

    Hope you arent talking about pvp because it has not changed one bit since the JOAT change. I see the exact same templates/variety as before.

    Which by the way really only amounted to 5 less mana after all was said and done.

    5 mana opens up template variety? Please.

    I believe the change was a good thing as it made pvp a bit less item based and it made pvmers have to think a bit when making a template. No instant god-made with chain specials because of a meaningless mana bonus.
    As it is right now on a sampire with only average gear and 30 lmc you can continually chain approx 12 ignores on a vortex. Are you kidding me?
     
  3. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    joat doesnt need to be changed.. if anything joat need to not apply to certain skills at all.. such as tracking.. but

    more skills do need to be added to the list of skills that apply to the lower mana cost..
    like chiv, healing, anatomy.
     
  4. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    yes lets make the only reason to play a human the fact he can hold like 25 more potions..
     
  5. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I don't understand exactly what the OP means by JoAT being changed, but the variety in templates has been thinning for a very long time, mostly for pvp... however pvm is affected as well.

    IMHO, Template variety is what's killing this game most, atleast for the players that Only enjoy/ed PvP (including myself, though pvm is actually getting better now, so I'm somewhat occupied with that atm)

    the Most effective templates IMO for both Pvm & Pvp...

    Sampire/Wammie = PVM literally solo 99% of UO
    Crafter/Imbuer = supporting pvm/pvp - imbued items are OP as hell
    Mystic/Mage = PVP - Purge, Healstone, Spellplague, & Prot/Stoneform.
    DP/Mage or dexer = Pvp - DP is OP as hell right now
    Thrower = Pvp - Hardest hits, Ranged, Best wep-specs & Fastest attacks

    Although, with Shame being Re-vamped, Bards & Tamers are more effective.
    I definitely do like the (Corrupted life leech) ability on some of the mobs added to the game in the last year or so (Starting with High Seas), as this ability doesn't Nerf sampires directly, it allows sampires to be effective in their own unique way (killing EVERYTHING Else) but as these mobs become more common this will balance out. That said I think the Dungeon-Revamps are a major success. so as far as PvM goes, There is and will continue to be better variety on templates for pvm, and there has become a reason to pvm again with the new loot changes & whetstones enhance weapons for both Pvp & Pvm (Amazing job here), and most of us can't wait till the other dungeons get re-vamped as well. =]
     
  6. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    I rather just go a different route and put Chivalry and Necro on the list of skills that lower the mana cost. They are almost the same as Bush and Ninja and since the change to Chiv it should for sure be put on the list.

    Or just put tactics on the list.
     
  7. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    nerf throwing, nerf dexers, boost necromancy.
     
  8. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    right cause a human char with sudo 20 pts in tracking should be able to track someone with 100 hiding and 120 stealth 2 screens away??

    maybe if they wont change that they should change tracking from a pass or fail skill to a skill thats scaled by skill vs skill and bump it up to 120.

    that way someone with 120 stealth can only be tracked by someone with 120 tracking.
     
  9. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    You can be in 3 different forms and humans do fail tracking alot. If you get tracked by humans that much you are playing a stealther wrong

    *I can't believe I just had to defend joat tracking to a stealther*
     
  10. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    While I do agree somewhat with what you say.... the tracker in my opinion should be within 20 points in skill to the stealther.... so you would need GM tracking to track someone with 120 skill...


    NEVER should 20 JOAT tracking EVER track someone with 120 stealthing. OR at the very least they should have only a 0.001% chance...

    Same with detect. You need to have GM detect to reveal a 120 stealther. Not 20 JOAT.

    But we all know that Tracking/Detect/Hiding and Stealth have been borked for years.
     
  11. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Honestly... the player base isn't big enough to have a dedicated "tracker mage" or something in your guild to take down stealthers.
     
  12. chad

    chad Sage
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    I am referring to PvP and it's not just 5 mana. Most special moves cost 12 mana at 40 lmc and 300 combat points. At 200 combat points they cost 17. At 100 they cost 22. You do a second special after your first one, your mana cost is potentially 12+24/17+34/22+44 respectively.

    PvM is the least affected by whether or not JOAT attributes to combat points, so I have no idea what you're getting at. I've run the same template for years (before and after JOAT change) and there hasn't been a thing in game I haven't been able to solo if I so chose. PvM isn't hard, don't pretend like it ever was or will be.

    Less item based? How so? That makes no sense to me.
     
  13. chad

    chad Sage
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    That's a fine suggestion Aaron. I'm not insinuating that my solution is the end all be all, but IMHO there needs to be a change to combat points so that it's easier to achieve. My initial suggestion is that they once again allow the passive 20 combat points in each skill from being human to apply to the combat point total. If skills such as healing or chiv were added to the list, that could work as a solution as well.
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Then you should learn to deal with them. But it isn't fair to the stealther to put 220 points of skill into a character to have it rendered useless by JOAT.

    That to me is 100% BS.

    I finally got so fed up with that I took the 220 points off and put something else on which in my opinion totally ruined the RP nature of my character but I felt I had no choice. Given that I was constantly revealed or tracked by folk with ZERO real skill it was too irritating and depressing to keep the points wrapped up in something that was that easy to undo.

    And if you can't have a good tracker mage tough. Any guild that does a spawn should have one. Same with folk defending sigils... it's just par for the course... but of course no one wants to "waste" the 100 points to put tracking on their mage .... that's the REAL beef.
     
  15. chad

    chad Sage
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    Beforehand, simply being a human and having 120 weapon skill allowed for you to achieve 300 combat points and thus the reduced mana cost, which is completely and utterly necessary in PvP. Removing JOAT's ability to attribute to the combat points, forces players to pick up 180 additional skill points in a restricted skill set. Doing so reduces the template variety because a significant amount of your template has to be dedicated to achieving the 300 cap. There are only so many skills that flow well together on that list. An increase in skills to the list or the return of JOAT seem like the only viable solutions at this point.
     
  16. Erigo

    Erigo Adventurer

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    Well there is one that i know of on Legends. Won't say the characters name though. :) (No, it is not one of mine)
     
  17. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I was referring to pvp AND pvm & you illustrated my point very clearly. The difference between 300 and 200 is only 5 mana. 100 does not even factor in as why the hell should anyone get a decent bonus for only 100 skill points? 17+34 works very well.
    You want to idiot-proof a template so that it can chain specials and never run out of mana? Thats sad. They put a timer on specials for a reason. Not so that it can be circumvented by having a certain set of basic skills.

    You say this in the name of template variety but that is a joke. You just want instant godmode on whatever template you are running.

    I personally dont care about pvm but it was also affected. Sampires cannot run low mana/low lmc suits and still endlessly chain specials like before. I think this is a good thing though its still kinda sad how many specials you can still chain on a sampy :(
    The fact that pvm has always been mindlessly easy & your old template does well means nothing.
     
  18. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Thats a terrible argument. Something is quite obviously wrong when a stealther with 220 points of skill invested is exposed by nothing other then type of race. Its seriously ridiculous and your counter is subscription numbers? Thats insulting.
    Damn near every average size pvp guild has multiple mystics/archers/throwers/melee dismounters but it cant have 1 or 2 real trackers if it has issue with stealthers? Huh?
     
  19. chad

    chad Sage
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    Haha. No wonder you do so poorly in PvP. You think that it's acceptable to have less than the max lmc. You're completely biased as well. Of course 100 factors in. All the tank mages get shafted on mana because of this. PvM wasn't affected by the JOAT change, but tank mages and people wanting to play anything other than the 5 available cookie cutter templates were.
     
  20. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Yes it is part of my argument. A stealther is a pain in the ass to kill as it is, i don't care if they devote 600 points to the template, it is a very powerful template in regards to not dying. Not every guild runs around with huge numbers, and if a guild is already outnumbered, having some dedicated tracker makes things that much worse. You rarely pick up something on human tracking, its a shot in the dark when you do. throw in the fact that there are 3 different possibilities in human/animal/monster and it actually does make it a shot in the dark. If anything, if you have tracking/detect you should never fail and have the option to track all char types.
     
  21. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Back to the main point though. maybe they should just add tactics into this mix and fix everything. Every dexer type would already be hitting the 200 skill, and any extra skill would get them to 300 probably?
     
  22. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    if they add tactics they might as well do away with the whole system.. as you said tactics is needed and every dexer has it..

    they should add chiv and healing for sure as those are skills that not everyone ueses..

    this would let you make a pure pally and have 300..
    swords
    chiv
    healing
    tactics
    anatomy
    resist


    right now you gotta have bushido and parry to get 300..
     
  23. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    Someone with a brain posting on UHAUL......say it AIN'T SO! Have a pint on me sir!:pint::ten:
     
  24. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You have serious reading and comprehension issues & you contradicted yourself so badly I laughed out loud when I read it.

    You want to stack up your easily obtained uber items for max lmc then get more mana thrown in for free by the devs so you can play a tankmage?
    Thats just pathetic that you feel you cant play a tankmage right now because of 5 less stackable mana.

    I dont know who you are ingame but its quite clear that you can do nothing other then chain specials on your weapons characters.

    You quite obviously played an overpowered godmode character for a short time and now believe its your god-given right to always be able to insta-kill. Its called the Virem complex if you didnt already know. Once you cant kill anyone in 3 seconds you resort to begging the Devs for nerfs.

    The rest of the UO world adapted quite easily and plays alot more then 5 templates son. PM me and ill help you out.
     
  25. chad

    chad Sage
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    I haven't contradicted myself once. You on the other hand are just confused in regards to PvP. Who's to say I haven't adapted? I'm regarded as one of the top, if not the top player in game. I could post videos of killing you 1v3 while I'm on foot. Or perhaps it's your son. Regardless, the inability to PvP runs in the family. Just another reason you should be ignored.
     
  26. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Wow, you have an especially bad case of the Virem complex :)

    You now have the worst symptom which is claiming your personal pvp greatness whenever you dont have a valid reply to being called out on your Dev begging. Beg the Devs to nerf whatever poses a problem to your godmode template.

    True story, look it up.
     
  27. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Since when is a tank mage god mode? its not actually THAT good, its just a fun template to play that is hurting.

    I mean.. chad can kinda turn any temp into god mode... but still. lol
     
  28. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    this thread doesnt have to turn into a pvp pissing match.
    there is NO reason chiv isnt on the list..
    it is a spell casting dexxer support skill, just like ninjitsu and bushido..