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Compassion?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Thrand Graywolf, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. What's the point in going back to Compassion being only available to people who can gate?

    Having escorts in New Haven meant anyone could get Compassion, and it also brought more vets to New Haven. Many times new players would ask questions of a vet standing there waiting for the five minute timer to expire...now there's really no point for a lot of people to go to New Haven.
     
  2. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    Compassion is still pretty easy to build, just go to Skara, and look for an escort bound for Yew, Skara, Jhelm, Vesper, Moonglow, or Minoc, as these are all a short walk from the moongate.
     
  3. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    For that matter, you can gain compassion doing the lissbet quest over and over in Ilshenar - no gating needed there and its a short walk
     
  4. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Oh dear, yeah I didn't notice that change.

    *sighs*

    This team is sure strange.....One step up, two back. Two up, one back. Three up, one back.

    Fix stuff! Yay! New content! Woot! Fix something no one thought was broken! What?

    Fix stuff no one thought was broken! What?

    Screw up old stuff in the process of trying to fix something? Hey!

    New content! Woot!

    Fix stuff! Bug Fixes! Awesome!

    Fix something nobody thought was broken! What?

    I like the direction overall. I like this time, I'm having fun.

    But damn if it isn't a rough, rough, strange, long, and winding road.

    -Galen's player
     
  5. And just how does a new player learn of Compassion points when a Vet cannot show him how to do it and let them see for themselves how the dots color in and such?

    C'mon Devs! This REALLY is a step backward. Holy moly! At least newcomers can farm easy gold to help them on their way. Would make more sense to drop the loot, retain the dadgum points.
     
  6. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    It's fairly easy to walk NPCs between Jhelom, Skara Brae, Moonglow, Trinsic, Yew, and West Britain. It's not too much more difficult to go from Minoc, Vesper, or East Britain.

    I do it all the time.
     
  7. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    When was the last time you actually saw a new player, not a returning vet, or just a new account for an old player.
     
  8. Honestly? I have seen more than a few [young] tags in the last month. 8 months ago my son was one. I last saw him about 30 minutes ago! rolleyes:
     
  9. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    Strange indeed. I new originally you couldn't gain in the Old Haven with the Compassion points after seeker. Then I noticed people gaining it in New Haven, and I thought "gee, why is it working now?" I thought the devs saw that Compassion was a nussance and went and made it easier for people.
    Now I see that they just broke it and want to "fix" it.

    Personally, I go to Skara and Jhelom. But, I think it should stay as is..... it's a nice thing to allow Old Haven to count as an escort. Maybe limit the amount of quest givers?
     
  10. Kebet

    Kebet Guest

    I dont get this change..what is the logic behind it? I dont understand. What is the big deal with leaving them in Haven?? I have accepted that knight of compassion has to be maintained even when you dont use it but why make it more difficult? It's just a tedious little chore I have to do.
     
  11. Just :stir: a bit ...

    Let's make it harder for the legit players by messing with an easy gold farm and virute system so 'bots can't run rampant all over the place.

    And the son I mention? He's working on Atl now and looking over his shoulder I see 3 [young] tags in New Haven.
     
  12. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Just make a few friends in game, that can gate. I raised my compassion that way. I am a paladin archer and have been a knight of compassion since before the Magincia invasion. You might be suprised by help you receive and find some valuable allies for the events. During the last few legs of the events I was actively sought out by others in need of a rez.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  13. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Gating isn't neccessary. They fixed all but two of the server line and permanent moongate issues when MONDAIN'S LEGACY was released (the remaining ones are issues with the teleporter to Buc's Den, and that if the distance between you and your escorted person is larger than the overlap at the server line, it can lose you). Even the one time the latter made me lose an escort on my paladin, it was on the Minoc line that was always the flakiest. I actually delivered hundreds of escorts before ML, that people said were impossible due to server lines, walking them ON FOOT cross multiple server lines - only Minoc's line ever gave me trouble - back then you could have 1 normal escort and as many rescues as you wanted, and I delivered FIVE escorts at once from Trinsic, on foot, split up between Britain, Cove, Vesper and Minoc - picking up an extra rescue to minoc after the Britain drop-off, and losing one of the last two (Vesper) on that same Minoc server line crossing it).

    I've lost that ONE escort of hundreds (if not over a thousand) escorts, since ML was released.

    Similarly, with the ML changes, you don't get hit by the 5 minute timer if you refuse to accept an escort, like before. If you can't get there, refuse the quest, and find another.

    Lissbet the Flower Girl and Bravehorn (parts of the Elf/Human & Human/Elf quests) don't cross server lines, and are short, REPEATABLE, trips on foot.

    Finally, Rescues don't have wait timers (And I don't believe Lissbet or Bravehorn do, either). Go to the Ilshenar sacrifice brigands, or to Trinsic Barrier island. Attempt a rescue - if they go to a place you can reach via gate (hell, some of the Barrier island ones want to go to Trinsic, some of them even spawning IN the guard zone for instant delivery!), take them. IF not, kill the brigands and ignore that escort till it despawns. Hopefully the next brigand spawn will be deliverable. Meanwhile, sit back and gather leather (from cows, bulls, deer, harts, and llamas on the island - spined leather from the ratmen at Sacrifice) for tailors to use, until the next spawn arrives.

    Why are people making such a mountain out of a molehill????
     
  14. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Contrary to what is in this post, I have lost several escorts, since Mondain's Legacy, to server lines and other similar issues.

    I don't even bother with rescue missions anymore.

    -Galen's player

     
  15. I've lost escorts as well ... and I'm a Paladin with Knight level Compassionl.

    As for making mountains ... why screw with something that appears to work nicely for new players and old alike for no apparent reason? I know ... why as why?

    Arg! I'm just getting frustrated ... I need another beer.
     
  16. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Galen, what were the circumstances?

    Odds are, I described them in the first paragraph.

    If you let a screen width get between you and an escort, the escort WILL get lost going across a server line - it was the case the only times I lost escorts before ML (except for that buggy Minoc Gate server line, which I NEVER could get an escort to cross prior to ML from the Vesper side of it), and it was probably the same for the ONE I lost after (I have repeatedly since ML taken escorts across the Minoc line, but I do it Slowly, moving 1 square at a time, just to be safe, until I am clear of the server overlap zone).

    Note that I'm not counting Magincia invasion and stupid error losses (accidentally casting recall instead of gate with my mage, dying during escort with my paladin on foot) in my one. Are you counting such things in yours?

    And, again, you people are ignoring the obvious - there are two escorts, quick, repeatable no gates or server lines, and with 0 danger, ON FOOT, that anyone capable of using compassion can do. Lissbet, and Bravehorn. what's the excuse for not considering them - never upgraded to Third Dawn, so can't reach Ilshenar? (I'm joking - I Hope)

    I challenge those of you claiming inability to cross server lines. MAke a character on Lake austin, and meet me at Trinsic. We'll get escorts going to the same location reachable by public moongate or on foot, and we'll walk side by side to the destination. We'll see who is right (maybe we both are, and your account is bugged somehow).
     
  17. Mankind

    Mankind Guest

    My concern/anger is how the Devs long ago decided to put a timer on Escorting. We went from being able to take countless escorts to a ******** 4 minute timer. I think it's still 4 minutes, not 1, not 2, or 3, some genius said, "Hey let's make it 4"....horrid.:sad4:
     
  18. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I seem to recall that the developers hinted at the last town hall meeting they are doing some work on the virtue system. Perhaps they are coming up with a better method for introducing the virtues to new players? Also, the publish notes don't say that you can no longer do escorts in New Haven. That means escorting NPCs will still be a gold source for new players with a high threshhold for boredom and who haven't yet figured out there are better, faster ways to make gold.
     
  19. Kebet

    Kebet Guest

    I am with you T'Amon. I dont think some people are getting the point. I have been maintaining Knight of Compassion for years on my paladin (also Knight of sacrifice, valor and Follower of Honor) because I think that is what a paladin should do.

    I have done the escort thing outside of Haven (for a while even after you could escort in Haven). Trying to find one that you can take, having them disappear half way there and I've even had people kill them on me from time to time. Having them all in Haven makes this little chore just a little bit easier. The point I am trying to make is that they are there now so why mess with it? Why not just leave it alone?
     
  20. On LS...usually four or five every time I go to New Haven to top off Compassion.
     
  21. I actually thought that it was an intentional thing to get more vets into New Haven to be there to help when noobs show up...since Companions are toast.

    Guess not.

    Their priorities right now have me just mind boggled. I don't understand why they wasted time on this when recovered arrows still won't go back in a quiver like they used to, curse is still broken, and in KR I still can't climb the ladder to the second floor of my house...
     

  22. I just tried it. Snagged an escort in Skara that wanted to go to Yew (took awhile...90% of the escorts wanted to go to Serp's...strangely, no one seemed interested in taking them there...)

    Walked him slow and careful up to the moongate, stepped through to Yew...and nothing. He wouldn't follow. Went back to Skara and pushed him, and he just complained that we weren't at Yew yet. No kidding. Had to dump the quest.

    Yeah...worthy use of a developer's time this was.
     
  23. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Just duplicated your experiment - walked at a slow rate to Skara moongate, on to Yew, with an escort from Skara Brae to Yew (took a while to find one - most wanted to go to Ocllo or Magincia). I didn't go through the gate until the escort was within the circle of stones with me.

    It arrived at Yew moongate safe and sound - walked it to the animal trainer corral for successful drop-off. Note that the Bank/Abbey does not qualify as Yew for deliveries, as traditionally in the Ultima solo games it was outside the city (and apparently the UO coders for escorts decided to treat it this way).

    BTW, I'm doing this in Trammel - are those of you with difficulties escorting in Fel or on SP? This especially started making me wonder when people talked of attacks on the escorts and the like - things people wouldn't normally even consider doing in Trammel. Heck, it probably falls under pagable griefing in a Trammel ruleset, as technically they're attacking your followers/pets, etc. And, I don't think anyone sane would attempt to bring a fel escort through Yew Moongate in either direction.

    Experiment 2: Escort from Skara to Trinsic; this time i went to gate quickly, triggered gate as it hit edge of the screen. It arrived at trinsic gate no problem. ran it deliberately by multiple creatures - they all attacked me, ignored escort. Delivered successfully.

    Experiment 3: Escorting in Fel; Jhelom to Skara... Followed me through gate, no problem.

    experiment 4: Skara to cove, Trammel. I RAN to the gate, left my escort behind me by a good 2 screens, he STILL came through moongate with me. Delivered.

    Experiment 5: Vesper to Minoc. I think I've found the problem some of you are having, and it fits what I've been saying all along. Escort got hung up on a piece of terrain, I kept moving. When I crossed line, it didn't follow. When I returned, I'd lost him, he wouldn't follow. In other words, I DIDN'T MAKE SURE TO KEEP HIM WITH ME. And, note, in the time it takes you to cross back over the line looking for him (by which time it's too late), he's started moving on his own and will probably not be in the obstruction that stopped him from following.

    Experiment 6: Got escort, went ahead, no obstructions but got a couple screens away from him crossng a server line. He stopped dead where he was when I left the zone where the images of the two servers overlap (watche with second account). Again, something I was pointing out as an avoidable issue. Don't leed by too much, and keep them at your side slowly through the zone.

    Experiment 7: Multiple crossings of same server line, repeatedly. This can happen on some stretches of road, such as the road from Minoc/Vesper to cove. (also happens on road north of Chaos) Repeated crossings caused "abandoned" message but it still followed. Another thing to try to avoid, and easily avoidable by going well past server line before altering course, and ignoring the road.

    Got any more hypotheticals I can explore with real data? After all, easily avoidable glitches that almost take self-infliction to occur are hardly on the front page of fixes the devs need to work on...
     
  24. Kebet

    Kebet Guest

    You are very methodical Basara :) Whether there are problems or not with town to town escorts, Haven escorts are faster and less annoying. It isnt hurting anyone just to leave them alone and is one less possibly aggrivating thing I have to deal with at "chore time"!

    Oh and my problems with people attacking was in Trammel. It was only a few times and was a few years ago. It wasnt a big issue just VERY annoying at the time :(.
     
  25. 4gregu

    4gregu Slightly Crazed
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    Here is an experiment I tried, I searched these forums to find how many people complained that it was to easy to gain compassion in New Haven, then I searched for how many people wrote well thought out posts, about issues in game that effect peoples play styles... here are my results:

    People who complained about ease of compassion gains: 0
    People who had real legitimate complaints about something else: 413,365

    hmmmm, now that’s a decisive test!
     
  26. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Well thankie dev's for fixing something that has been ruining the game. I can't tell you the amount of times I've gone to New Haven.. only to see scripters running rampant farming gold off the escorts, gaining in compassion just to sell it for obscene amounts in Luna...

    oops.... think Kealdia's burning eyes filled my vision there for a sec!

    LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM
     
  27. Ya I know many a warrior that was using the escorts at Haven to build compassion, but with Pub 54 they will have to look to other areas to gain compassion.
     
  28. Oriana

    Oriana Babbling Loonie
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    Because as you put it some accts are bugged apparently. I didn't relaize the flower girl one gained compassion thanks for that knowledge, but your approach to teling players about this is a bit gruff. It was lack of knowledge only. Honestly, I know a lot about this game, but there is infinitly more that i do not know. Thank you for the lesson,

    Ori
     
  29. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Folks, Seriously, I apologize on how I came across on this....

    I was a little low on sleep (and I had something REALLY nasty in terms of a 24-hour virus Monday, that I still don't know what it was), and the escorts have been one of my hot button issues since 2004, even before they were changed in ML. ML's changes fixed some issues (getting the escorts to use gates) while making escorts a little harder (you could no longer rescue multiple people at the same time - which not only sucks when you're trying to RP a paladin, made compassion gains take longer). IIRC, one of the reasons stated when Haven/New Haven escorts started giving compassion gains in ML, was that they were a compensation for this, but it's more likely it was just an oversight that made people happy so the y put the fix on the back burner.

    Ever since I started playing in 2003, people kept telling me (in regards to escorts) "you can't do this" and "You can't do that", when I was doing them, even providing screen caps, and treated like I was crazy or a liar despite that I got to knight of compassion doing what they said could not be done on a non-gater (then again, you almost have to be crazy to attempt - and SUCCEED {when it was possible to do so} in pulling off that FIVE escort trip overland from Trinsic to the northern reaches.

    BTW, here is a pic of doing what others said was impossible from over the years, that I found I still had on my web page. I have some others scattered around, but have to get them off old computers...

    In this instance the conventional wisdom was that no escort rescued in Ilshenar was deliverable, but back then one of the possible destinations (removed in the ML conversion to the new quest system) was to go to any of the shrines of the virtues. This delivery (from the brigands near the Sacrifice gate) was so quick she was still showing her "rescue me" spam when delivered. Even with this picture, no one believed me. The scariest thing about this pic was realizing, almost 4 years later, that Slacktard was once in my alliance..... :)
    [​IMG]
     
  30. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Honestly you are just a lucky person.

    Because exactly the things you claim to be able to do, the rest of us have tried many times over the years and we can't. I found most normal escorts to be more bugged after Mondain's Legacy.

    -Galen's player
     
  31. It's always refreshing to find they've:

    1. Made yet another uneccesary change.
    2. Promise something months ago, don't follow through, don't bother to tell why or answer repeated questions about it.
    3. "Fix" something that isn't broken.

    All is well though. We now have a statuette engraving tool no one asked for and cows that give milk with no clue as to why.

    *click* Another account closed today. I don't feel sad in the least.
     
  32. ki-rin

    ki-rin Guest

    this is a totally unnecessary change.. why waste the time on doing something like this when there are lots other more important things that need to get fixed .. :thumbdown:

    fix the monster curse damnit it's so very annoying
     
  33. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Galen, if that's true, I'd like someone to meet me and prove it to me that I'm just lucky. so far, no one's been willing to step forward and do so. I'll gladly demonstrate escorting working properly on Lake Austin. If you want to make a character (or use a gift-trader, etc.) there, and show me how it's not working, I won't have as big a beef over people saying things aren't working that I've only seen work properly unless steps are taken to make it not work. It's not like it takes a fully-built character to escort from safe town to safe town through a gate, with only mongbats to dodge (skara, jhelom, minoc/vesper, moonglow, britain)
     
  34. Kebet

    Kebet Guest

    My paladin will continue to do escorts regardless of whether they make this change or not because she is a paladin and that is her part of her duties. If the change does go in (and it probably will..grrrrr) I will be keeping a copy of your post. It has alot of helpful tips and for that I thank you Basara! :)


    BUT I'm still annoyed at the Dev's for making me do it outside of Haven! ;)
     
  35. Jesara

    Jesara Guest

    I so agree. Paladins should absolutely be Knights of Compassion. I was so thrilled when mine could escort in Haven, especially lately with so many [young] players around. All my warriors and mages are knights now also, which is such a help when ressing in dungeons. I don't mind the walking to moongates, but it takes so long for each character that I'd have no time to play.
     
  36. DarkVoid

    DarkVoid Guest

    I always seem to lose foot-escorts (those that aren't gated, whether by player or by public moongate system) going from Vesper to Minoc.

    Apologies for the large image size, but as you can see by the radar map image in the picture, I'm about a screen or two south of the Minoc public moongate and have just crossed an invisible server line, which is where it would be shown on UOAM.

    I think the reason I lost this escort was because it had lagged about a screen behind me and I got over the server line before it caught up with me. If it's following you directly, when you cross over, it can't lose you, I think.

    I'd be interested if all escorts from Vesper going to Minoc always get lost over the server line, or just some of them. I seem to remember if you cross over near the moongate and make sure it's following you, that it doesn't lose you.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers ...

    DarkVoid
     
  37. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Darkvoid, you're probably right, but that IS the most buggiest server line, in terms of escorts, in the entire game.

    It was always the one that made me lose escorts on foot, even in the pre-ML days where I had to take everything the long way (probably lost more than half crossing it back then - so I tried to avoid escorts going to and from Vesper). It also seemed to happen more if you were going NW instead of due West

    These days, when I step out of the gate, heading to Minoc with an escort, I take 1 step, stop, 1 step, stop, and so on until both me AND the escort are across the server line - never can be too careful (and I do it at every server line) - and that might be one of the primary reasons I've lost so few escorts post-ML. only costs me a few seconds, and if it's not a rescue, I'm gonna have to wait between trips anyway....