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constant disarms

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Shot, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. Shot

    Shot Guest

    ya know, it used to be fun to be an archer. now.. 120 archery,I have 40 DCI, 43 HCI and while I miss every other shot, I get disarmed, disarmed, disarmed. so I put on a bow with +24 HCI, and my hits still whiff whiff whiff. WTF????

    AT least give me a disarm bow so I can return the freakin' favor!!!
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    The problem is disarm, not archers. Archers shouldn't be able to hit every shot, from a range. :/
     
  3. gen2000

    gen2000 Guest

    you get disarmed every time because archers have no parry... get hit lower defense.. mace & shields, or on your bow... stay on the move... or make a fencer/archer.. disarm and run them down with moving shot.. lmfao!!
     
  4. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Maybe you should not be so close to them? Maybe you should pick another fighting skill if it bothers you so much? Disarming with a bow is a bit too far fetched and a bit too unfair.
     
  5. Shot

    Shot Guest

    Of course I try not to be so close!!! But being chased around by a dexxer I"m gonna get hit once in awhile, it's just the way it is. I mean they gotta have a fair chance eh?

    But why is it so unfair if I disarm them from a distance? I mean right now, I simply can not compete against a melee dexxer using disarm as an archer. It's sad that to be told to 'change templates'. Why isn't it fair to balance the game so I can play the template I worked so hard and spent so much gold on to compete with?

    Is it really asking too much to make the fight fair? geez...
     
  6. Maddin

    Maddin Guest

    UBWS warfork.
     
  7. Shot

    Shot Guest

    Supposedly there is no difference in chance to hit for an archer than there is for a melee template. However, with over 40 HCI and about the same DCI, plus HLD on M&S glasses, I have a much tougher time hitting than do melee templates.

    - Dexxers already hit harder and faster than an archer does
    - Dexxers can hit on the run, archers must use a special to do the same (one of two bows, plus mana cost)

    AS it is, when I come up against a dexxer who is using disarm I simply have para-blow him or just plain run as there is no chance of me killing him while he can disarm me and heal before I get enough damage done.

    I don't care if I get disarm on a bow, but until disarm is fixed, I will continue to simply avoid disarmers 1v1, it's a waste of my game time.
     
  8. Divster

    Divster Guest



    But dexers cannot hit at range, while on the move. Moving shot costs minimal mana cost esp if you have a lmc suit. Even if you were not to use moving shot , but rely on stopping now and then to shoot you would be able to get a few shots off before you were caught up with (that is assuming both players are using legit, same speed cons). Another reason why you will miss more compared to a melee fighter vs you is the lack of the parry skill on your part
    , don't get me wrong i fully agree on your feelings towards disarm, and think it should be subject to a timer much like the evasion skill is now.
     
  9. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Maybe you could put wrestling on your archer. If they disarm you, turn around and disarm them.
     
  10. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    UBWS doesn't work for archers because the bow is not concidered a melee weapon.
     
  11. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    The awser is Mind Rot the necro spell. My archer is a full necro sampire archer. If I think someone going to disarm me(the worst) I hit them with a mind rot and or blood oath. While mind roted their special cost about 45-50 mana and "most" dexers have less than that. If they still get one off on the rare occasion they have enough mana the blood oath keeps them at bay until you can reequip.
     
  12. Shot

    Shot Guest

    If I were to do that, I'd just as soon become a swords/archer or fencing/archer and have available the full range of specials.

    Take care of disarm, and I think I can hold my own vs a melee template without resorting to bastardizing the template I play. I won't win every fight, but I'll at least stand a chance when I see someone with a warfork or butcher knife (or any of the other THIRTEEN weapons that can disarm) coming at me!

    I play an archer because I enjoy trying to dodge and weave. I have no problem with dexxers hitting me on the run (if they can catch me) I like trying to be skillful on hit, run, stop, hit run, stop... rather than just chase, poison, disarm, hit, hit, hit like a dexxer.

    I've got no issues except when disarmed, I become a running noob who has no offense and a greatly reduced defense for a full 12 seconds; only to get disarmed again when I re-equip. 12 seconds is a long time in PvP. Constant disarming just takes the fun out of the whole experience.

    I don't think I'm asking for the moon here.
     
  13. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    I've been fighting a very very ruthless Fencer/Archer lately.

    His main combo is to disarm you, then equip a bow that does mortal strike and about 30 damage plus lightning.

    Quit whining and get more creative with your template.:hahaha:

    Archers don't need buffs.:coco:
     
  14. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    I had one of thse but with a uber Ornate Axe instead... Pwnage :p Well was this i changed him to pure archer..
     
  15. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    Doesnt work with archery does it?
     
  16. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Archers are not weak. Less dependency on connection speed (but if somehow you move faster than melee dexers and mages archers are godlike). I see a lot of *cough* speedhax *cough* being nearly unkillable and untouchable by melee dexers. Besides archers are easy to play.

    Also whoever says melee hits harder than archers simply dont PvP. Archers are currently the hardest hitting template besides (rofl) super dragons. A double proc lighting+velocity concussion w/ cons weapon can hit for anywhere from 45 to 75 to most PvP characters. Two hit kills from archers on my shard happens almost everyday. It takes archers around two seconds to dish out 100+ damage to a PLAYER with a super xbow. 30+ damage moving shot from heavy after 40 damage dismount shot also happens on daily basis.

    Melee hits faster and harder and can have parry for defense. Archers NUKE people and has ranged advantage. Seems very balanced. And to be honest I think archers actually have an edge over melee for the range aspect along and with a good bow with high ssi they really dont shoot any slower than melee dexers while each hit that lands packs much more punch than any melee attacks.
     
  17. Sid Vacuous

    Sid Vacuous Guest

    A few points:

    - If you are using divine fury then it drops your DCI 20 points. Stack up 65 DCI to avoid this.
    - Shoot and move. Shoot and move. You have to be fast.
    - 120 weap skill.
    - Hit Lower Attack is awesome for reducing disarms, dismounts, bleeds, and everything else a weapon can do tor you. It gives a great advantage in archer versus archer fights.

    But yeah disarm is still annoying. Especially for sword swingers. I'd basically leave disarm as is for archers, but there should be a 20% HCI penalty when attempting to disarm non-ranged weapons. Otherwise it's too debilitating. Maybe make it so it doesn't apply when trying to disarm sammy's though.
     
  18. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    No Parry? Doesn't Bushido work with 2-handed weapons (archery weapons)?
     
  19. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    nope.. you can parry a hally hit with a dagger , but not a dagger hit with a large 2 handed bow.... go figure
     
  20. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    A few things to know.
    As an archer you should be using a Warfork with HLD, Spell and Damage Increase at the least, so you can disarm first and perhaps even Bleed the target.

    You can then hunt them down with Moving Shot and repeat the procedure if they decide to re-arm.

    If you get disarmed first you are not doing your job as an archer very well, and you should run. Unless the other guy is an archer you should be having little problems.

    If someone's running towards you with bad intentions kite them with Moving Shot.

    A property that is very nice in today's combat where everyone's over-cap DCI is HIT LOWER ATTACK. People cannot afford to run around with much more than 45-50 HCI and DCI 50+ or they are seriously set back in Resistances, Health, Mana, whatnot.

    Mages are a different story- they have ranged damage like you, never miss, heal excellently and need no HCI. Also disarm does not affect them since their weapons are their fists, although they do disarm with them.

    Missing often is your own bad luck, sorry. There have been numerous threads and an official response regarding archery's hit chance. It's not broken.

    All this would normally indicate some unfairness in the food chain of PvP but don't let it bother you eh? :coco:

    *EDIT* Oh and to answer some of your arguments :

    "But being chased around by a Dexxer I"m gonna get hit once in awhile, it's just the way it is. I mean they gotta have a fair chance eh?"

    You would think it would be this way. It's not.

    "But why is it so unfair if I disarm them from a distance? I mean right now, I simply can not compete against a melee Dexxer using disarm as an archer. It's sad that to be told to 'change templates'. Why isn't it fair to balance the game so I can play the template I worked so hard and spent so much gold on to compete with?"

    You're serious??! Okay I am trying not to laugh now. Real hard.

    "The answer is Mind Rot."

    No it's not, there are cheaper and easier ways. Unless you enjoy the template. No argument there.

    "However, with over 40 HCI and about the same DCI, plus HLD on M&S glasses, I have a much tougher time hitting than do melee templates."

    I sometimes miss so much in a row with 45 Hci, 120 Weapon that I curse in real life. It's NOT BROKEN. Consider also that some melee types have Bushido/Parry 120, and to top it off can turn on Evasion. This is a nightmare situation in which you are best to flee and wait. Evasion has a cool-down of 20".

    "Dexxers already hit harder and faster than an archer does."

    False. 100% false.

    "Dexxers can hit on the run, archers must use a special to do the same."

    If you allow a melee template to connect hits on the run you're either too slow with your reaction time, too slow connection, too slow computer or have absolutely no clue about PvP. Or simply have never heard of Moving Shot and the myriad ways to get over the mana cost which is small anyway, and the supposed 'penalties'. Again no offense.

    "AS it is, when I come up against a Dexxer who is using disarm I simply have Para-blow him or just plain run as there is no chance of me killing him while he can disarm me and heal before I get enough damage done."

    The healing part you can also have. And haven't you heard, BALANCED BOWS? And you probably haven't seen a pot-chugging mage in action if you think bandies are evil. Anyway for the rest of what you mention just check the other answers. And many dexxers who have NO Bushido are forced to run WITHOUT a shield anyway just to drink pots fast as possible.

    "I don't care if I get Disarm on a bow, but until Disarm is fixed, I will continue to simply avoid Disarmers 1v1, it's a waste of my game time."

    Exactly what I say. Disarm/Dismount = No-No for me.. Melee, Mage or Archers. Gimpest moves ever, and gimpest part of the game including potions. Irony that it's mostly ARCHERS spamming me Disarm/Dismount.
    As a side note you say you've spent enough gold for an uber suit.. Yet you have all those problems and cannot chain Moving Shots. I have to be suspicious here.. ;Pp

    Kith you cannot risk the integrity of the bow and its parts like the string or whatever it's called, to block a couple of blows. Besides all archers had a close-range weapon in real life for a reason. And the Halberd Vs. Dagger fight is about distance. Learn some real life PvP? ;) I can't bother elaborating or hi-jacking the thread.
     
  21. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Owned! :scholar:
     
  22. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    So many people missed the entire point of the thread(especially the 'sick' people)

    Bottom line is that no matter what hci/dci/gear the experienced Archer runs it is simply too easy for a marginally equipped/experienced true Warrior to counter the Archer.

    I am certainly not saying that Archery is underpowered because it isnt. It is still an extremely powerful 'offensive' template.
    But bottom line is that it is basically impossible to fight a warrior that has average gear, parry, and chains disarm.

    It is so freaking pathetic how many warriors are running around elucca and chaining Disarm 1 vs 1 even before they take 1 hp of damage. 90% of them dont even have a combo or strategy that uses the Disarm. They just chain it and run in circles. Wow.
    They have 0 chance of ever killing the target as the disarm does practically 0 damage yet they just keep on chaining it.

    Nothing screams that you are a post Aos newb like chaining crap just to stay alive 1 vs 1.

    Remember folks. This is a 1 vs 1 discussion. Nothing to do with disarm in a gank as thats a whole different story.

    If you have no chance of killing your opponent 1 vs 1 why are you even in Felucca calling yourself a pvper?

    And btw, please just spare me the total BS about every archer having to get a melee skill just to disarm back and try to chain moving shot. Its 100% gimp and not a valid argument agaianst the FACT that archery is the ONLY template in the game that has 0 defense abilities.
    Nice job though trying to counter gimpness with more gimpness. Sounds like a DEV team solution lol.

    Archers dont need Disarm. Nobody needs Disarm 1 vs 1 so it shouldnt be anywhere near the game. Its been a total,gutless move since day 1.
     
  23. Maddin

    Maddin Guest


    Try it ;)
     
  24. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    I love quoting my self!

    READ!!!!!! Disarm is meaningless to my archer!
     
  25. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    If by "true warrior" you mean no mage/necro/ninja/bushi, then any experienced archer should be able to eat a marginally equipped one alive.



    Probably the most powerful (discounting tamers) - welcome to the concept of swings-and-roundabouts: Choose fantastic offence, or fantastic defence, or Jack of all trades.



    Parry seems to be a reasonable counter to the fact that an archer can attack from half a screen away.
    It also costs 100+ points to be anywhere near effective.



    or perhaps a paraphrase...



    Surely, the whole point of PvP is to win the fight? What better way to increase your chances of victory than to limit your opponents' damage-dealing?
    In an organised duel, yes, disarm is lame, but in the field, where anything goes, and everybody should be using their specials to their best advantage, disarm is a vaid tactic.



    Are you just bitter because post AoS newbs have learned to play their characters well?



    I guess that many of the disarm warriors would say that they have a good chance of getting a 1vs1 kill, using the special-moves available to them. (Unless, of course, their opponent is an archer who knows what he's doing)



    OK - that's reasonable



    Why? A lot of killer archers seem to find this rather effective.



    Absolutely !!!! :coco:
    There's no such thing as a scribe-mage or a non-parry weapon mage. :coco: :coco:



    What is your definition of "gimp"??

    I would suggest that is ought to be something like "a skillset against which no other skillset has a reasonable chance of victory."

    If an archer always loses to a (your words) "true warrior", then they are possibly not a terribly good archer.



    Nobody NEEDS disarm.
    Nobody NEEDS balanced bows.
    Nobody NEEDS dismount.

    These special moves are all available to those who have the equipment necessary. I hate to fall back on an old cliche, but if you don't like it - adapt.



    Like "dismount with a bow"?
    Like "we'll give archers 1-handed bows so they can chug"?
    Like "velocity"?
    Like moving shot?
     
  26. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Dismount with bow, balanced and moving shot are all worse than disarm IMO.

    Velocity is a lovely bouns on top of other hit spell effect and of course only archers can have it. I've seem archers saying they are "UNDERPOWERED" and "balanced" and "velocity" mod isnt that good... So I guess thats why a balanced 40ssi 40+hit fireball 40+hit velocity crossbow on atl was sold for 285million gold because it's not that good...... yea.... I guess.

    Archers are fine if not too powerful. And archers saying mages are challenging...... probably are not that good of an archer. Advise on changing your template a bit and try to use a hit magic arrow or hit fireball weapon. Offensive mages cant have parry, and parry mage cant kill jack (unless you suck). So I hope you can come around. When I do play my archer I'd rather be fighting necro/mages over any kind of dexers. :thumbup1:
     
  27. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    It may be an old cliche, but it is just so true and works very well in almost every complaint about certain things such as tamers, etc.
     
  28. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    It's not that easy to run a pure archer template for PvP these days w/all the different specials. Personally the archer template I love is my ninja/mace/archer.

    It's got a lot of great possibilities. I went to that template to keep me alive.

    Ninja is great for mirror image, animal form, DP darts/stars, death strike etc...It's great for when you get dismounted, couple seconds later you can change into a wolf and head for the hills till you can remount your ride. Mirror image along the way to absorb blows so you stay alive a lot easier. Darts/Stars is a great way to compliment the heavy damage a bow can do.

    Archery... i've always carried a heavy xbow. Nothing better than DP'ing someone, then chasing them down with a heavy with fireball/mana leech/ssi. With my suit I can pretty much chain moving shot (which does lots of damage) The one i'm using atm has no DI yet my base damage in my status bar w/just DI jewels is about 63-76. So my moving shots are doing 20+ dmg per hit + when fireball hits. Not to mention I can dismount someone, hit em with a dart/star, follow up with mortal/conc blow from a crossbow or a number of various combinations.

    Macing...I've grown to love the maul I use, 35SSI, 45 Lightning, 42 mana leech, 47 DI or so...crushing blow + conc blow while someone is DP'd by a star/dart helps a lot.

    Ya chain disarmers are kinda weak, but there's so many things you can do with archery, you just gotta learn how to stay away from them until you can re-arm. If you don't like the chain disarms, change your template and return the favor or learn to deal w/them in another way.

    I've fought a couple people who love to disarm, all you gotta do is keep your distance as an archer, which you should already be doing. Unless the person is speed hacking or you have a horrible connection it shouldn't be too big of an issue.

    Oh, another thing about velocity... I ran a test on test center to try em out. You don't see too many good Yumis around because even w/a good talisman you have less than 50% chance at GM fletching to make an exceptional one and like a 75% chance to even make it at all. But I managed to make one on test w/the Heartwood kit. It had SSI/DI/Hit Fireball/Velocity and I think mana leech. Talk about nasty. Not to mention that Yumis have near the same base damage as a heavyxbow and slow like them too. However, they have this special called Double Shot. You need bushido or ninja in order to use it. But w/the base damage it has, and double shot w/double hit spell....It can hit for godly damage. Double shot can shoot two arrows at once... So imagine being hit by the arrow alone for say 20pts a hit... 40 damage. On top of that add IF the double hit spell strikes twice with those arrows...fireball doing say, 8 damage a piece. Another 16 damage. Velocity doing another 12 damage total. You're looking at about 68 damage give or take in ONE shot. Now the only way you can do that as a melee template would be with Concussion Blow...But you also have to be NEXT to the person you're hitting. Not to mention an archer can have concussion as well. But a Yumi has max range unlike a crossbow. So you can do 65+avg damage to someone from 10 freakin tiles away. Stick that in the chain disarmers arse.

    Chain disarmers do suck. But if you don't know how to deal w/one, you need to figure it out because it's not something to cry about w/all the other crap going on.
     
  29. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    "Are you just bitter because post AoS newbs have learned to play their characters well?"


    This one sad sentence sums up exactly how far off point you are :(

    You quite obviously endorse Disarm 1 vs 1 and honestly believe it has to do with playing your character well. I really feel for you as you are just so darn oblivious to true pvp 1 vs 1 before Aos.

    God bless you :)

    ** Btw, ANYONE dying to any type of non-disarm Archer strictly using moving shot should just quit. It is virtually impossible to die to moving shot unless you have 0 experience/skill. But plz keep on keeping on using moving shot as a basis to nerf archery. Its quite comical.
     
  30. laurlo

    laurlo Guest

    hrm.. I should take out my archer, haven't used her in awhile.