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Could use some help with a wammy

Discussion in 'UHall' started by lankdogg03, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. lankdogg03

    lankdogg03 Journeyman
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    Okay so its been about 6 or 7 years since ive really played a dexxer type character but ive decided to dust off my old dexxer and make him a wammy. ive already checked some other threads about different templates, but what i need to know is what is a good setup for the stats with a wammy and what kind of suit do they need in terms of good artis to use and is a 100 lrc usually used,
    thanks
     
  2. Just to get you started:

    Stats-

    Str 100
    Dex 125
    Int 25

    Arties-

    Fey Leggings
    Heart of the Lion
    Jackal's Collar
    Conjurer's Trinket/Primer on Arms
    Mace & Shield Glasses
    Stormgrip
     
  3. lankdogg03

    lankdogg03 Journeyman
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    thanks for the info
     
  4. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    Dont wear the jackles collar, you will loose the 2 of the 3 mr you get just from being human.
     
  5. If they're planning on PvM only, it's better for them to be an elf for the extra 20 mana anyway.
     
  6. lankdogg03

    lankdogg03 Journeyman
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    Yeah im mostly planning on pvm with the character...so i guess most ppl who use the wammy or sampire template just use necro srolls or regs?
     
  7. Things I'd consider...

    Don't forget to build the suit around the resist change you get in wraith form:
    +15/-5/0/0/-5

    If I couldn't build it with 100 lrc & 2/6 I wouldn't build it. It (for me) would be the difference in it being fun or tedious (restocking regs). 2/6 Isn't neccessary, but as you have necro and ss anyway you may as well have the option to cast at 2/6.

    Don't worry about lmc/mr/hci, do worry about dci/swinging at the cap/doing high damage.

    A lot of the time these templates come down to what weapons you're using, try and use the highest DPS weapons for whatever class you're going.

    Suit wise I'd have mace & shields, human fey legs, aof.

    Keeping it medable/being an elf, neither matter - it's a wraith dexxer. Get mana leech on your weapon so you can still go against monsters with no mana pool. Stamina leech is also a good idea or use pots.

    Sampires don't really use regs, most just carry an item of arcane clothing.

    Edit:
    If you're using it for spawns have a weapon with whirlwind + hit harm/lightning, the instant hit spell will change your target so you can keep hitting. Hitting consistantly is whats keeping you alive.

    Know what (& what not) to use corpse skin against. It does this: +10/-15/+10/-15/0, using it on Rikktor puts it's weakest resist up and it's strongest resist down - but not down enough to be better than it's weakest.
     
  8. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    ROFL. What's a "wammy"?...la
     
  9. Wraith + Samurai (Sammy) = Wammy!
     
  10. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    And 2 wraith sammies is a double wammy! Uh-oh!
     
  11. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Aren't a lot of fairly specific items/armor pieces needed for this? I truly don't know.
     
  12. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    You dont actually need LRC, just make 3 stacks of 30 of each necro reg, and as long as you dont let your corpse decay, you'll be stocked for quite a while. Btw, when you die you can always honor yourself to get to your corpse.
     
  13. Not at all.
     
  14. Not since the nerf to Vamp form. Now you just need specific mods instead of specific items. The template is a little more cramped, but the suits are a lot easier to build.
     
  15. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    What mods? I have never played either Necro or Samarai. Lot's of things I have yet to do... This might be interesting. Is it Pvm or PvP? Both? *crosses fingers*
     
  16. Not sure what you're asking Kelmo.

    Both Wammys & Sampires are primarily PvM. They combine the large damage achievable with perfection and lightning strike critical hits with the leech abilities of the necro forms.

    They can be built as 'well' or as 'simple' as the player has knowledge for/can be bothered with. No mod is really needed as the majority of damage, hit chance, healing ability is in the skills not the items, though it's obviously in your interest to hit as hard, fast & frequenty as possible as it is how you sustain your health.

    Overall Sampires are the easiest to build and play with the fewest drawbacks.
     
  17. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Thank you, I am reading this with much interest. Where I play PvM can become PvP in an instant. How is this template solo? PvM and PvP? Is it a good team character? Yes both...
     
  18. It depends how you build it and what you're fighting. So does wether it has any team purpose. In general they are templates for soloing champions/peerless/boss type monsters.

    Wraith versions need a minimum of 40 necro, 100 ss. Vamp versions need a minimum of 99 necro.
    Wraith versions have this change to their resists: +15/-5/0/0/-5. Vamp versions have this change to their resists: 0/-25/0/0/0.
    Wraith versions are on foot. Vamp versions are mainly on mount.
    Wraith versions are negative karma. Vamp versions are positive karma.
    (in regards to healing) Wraith versions may need regs/lrc/casting. Vamp versions need nothing.
    Wraith versions may need pots/petals to cure/refresh stamina. Vamp version auto cures poisons levels 1-4 on the first tick.
    Wraith versions take more damage from having no armoured swamp dragon but heal 50% of the damage they do. Vamp versions take less damage because they can use armoured swamp dragons but heal 20% of the damage they do.
    Wraith versions (aside from weapon leeches) are draining mana out of the opponent, meaning they can run out and when they do you will too meaning you can't cast curse weapon to heal yourself. Vamp versions do not have that problem as they are converting damage into hp. If you have hit mana leech on your weapon you can avoid that problem on the wraith version, though there is a difference in the mana calculations from wraith leeching & mana leech & from curse weapon & vamp leeching & life leech.
    Wraith versions usually need stamina leech. Vamp versions have stamina regen and usually chiv for divine fury.
    Wraith versions can spam specials indefinitely providing their hitting hard enough to sustain it vs monsters that don't run out of mana. Vamp versions probably can't. Usually wraiths add the special Feint to the cycle of curse weapon & lightning strike to half the damage their taking.
    Wraith version has no inate regens. Vamp version has 3 mana regen, 14 stamina regen.
    Both benefit from the Bushido boost to whirlwind damage and can handle huge groups of monsters, because of whirlwind & momentum strike & counter attack & evasion etc.

    Overall I've seen more variations on the vamp version than the wraith, including bandages, discord, archery, 4/6 chiv, spellweaving, ninjitsu (images replacing parry) & consider it the stronger of the two.
     
  19. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Just to clarify the wraiths "heal 50% of the damage they do" part. It's from casting curse weapon. A sammy can cast it as well and add that extra 50% on top of their native 20%. The life leech from vampire form/curse weapon is superior to the life leech from weapons in that they will trigger 100% of the time (well, unless you are using a 100% life leech weapon like breath of the dead/grim reaper scythe or using focus attack etc).

    Wraiths will have their karma turned evil fairly quickly since they rely on casting Curse Weapon for the life leech. Sammies need to cast curse weapon only under dire situations, making it alot easier to maintain karma.

    Switching 120 parry with 120 ninjitsu...damn...why didn't I think of that!? *looks for my 120 ninjitsu stone*
     
  20. Yeah, also the leeches on weapons are a % of 40% of the damage for life and mana leech and 100% for stamina (at least I think it is). So a 100% mana leech weapon will leech 40% of the damage, as most weapons don't have that the forms leeches are, as ya say, superior.

    They don't usually have the regs/lrc or ss to cast it, though I'm not really sure what it's duration is anymore as the old page on it seemed to be way off.

    The diversion chance is your ninjitsu skill -30, so 90% at 120 skill. You also get ranged dp and could hop off a swampy summon images and remount.
     
  21. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Exactly, that's what I figured, it is like a 90% chance to parry, plus some innate parry chance from weapon skill and parry JOAT.

    More mana intensive though, I wonder if I can fit an occasional focus attack to boost weapon mana leech to 100%.

    Have to be careful against monsters or in areas like paroxymus with AOE damage effects.

    Only one way to find out!

    Edit: with the 20 ss from joat, curse weapon lasts about 3 seconds. Enough for at least 2 swings.
     
  22. I'm not sure if images feed paroxysmus (like pets etc).

    Also other players ev's/summons/area damage will also kill your images in tram. I've sent in bug reports about it, althought it's not really a bug, it's definitely taking away the usefulness of it for imo no good reason.

    & thats nice to know about the curse wep.
     
  23. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I'm glad you asked... I too was in "wtf" mode.
     
  24. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Wearing the jackal's collar will reduce mana regen rate. It's not the straight 3 MR from JOAT or items, but it affects the base speed of your mana regen speed.

    From here: http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/meditation.php

    Base speed factor = (Meditation * 3) + Intelligence.
    At GM Meditation or higher a 10% bonus is added to the base speed factor.
    If you are wearing armor that you cannot meditate in, then the base speed factor becomes 0 (zero).



    So even though the fire resist and dex inc is very attractive, I don't use it.

    Regarding the race, I initially thought that the extra 20 mana is a blessing for elven warriors too, but I changed back into a human as the advantages that JOAT gives is much more.

    I don't have med or focus on my sammy, so that's 3 mr from the 20 focus and 20 med.

    I can use a 3 sec curse weapon from the 20 SS.

    I also completed the spellweaving quest so that I can cast gift of renewal (even have 4 other joat spellweavers for a lvl 5 focus) on my Lesser Hiryu.

    I have a 20% chance to hide when I need to quickly grab a bite/smoke/potty break/phone call! No worries about invis potion timing out.

    Enough JOAT combat skills to qualify for max mana reduction on special moves even if I remove 1 or 2 combat skills.

    If I swap out parry for ninjitsu, I will still have 20 parry. That's another 10% parry chance :D
     
  25. A step up from a humdinger but a step below a beaut.
     
  26. If you don't have Med and are an elf, it doesn't affect anything. If you're a Wammy as the OP asked, they'll be leeching mana from their opponents anyway, so they're better off having a larger mana pool to add to.

    As far as elf vs human, if you're not planning on any PvP with the character, elf is better for the additional mana. Joat benefits PvP more than PvM.
     
  27. I agree, imo theres really no reason to be an elf for anything other than resource gathering mules or tamers needing cu's. If I need a cu I usually go elf then change back to human when I have it, the quests are easy enough.

    I also use it for attunement, hiding, create food as my tamers don't have magery, and in PvP (from scrolls on non mages) for teleport and wall of stone, even my non cast based dexxers have 2 FC just for the purpose of being able to teleport at the same speed. Also for tracking.
     
  28. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, based on this:

    Base speed factor = (Meditation * 3) + Intelligence.
    If you are wearing armor that you cannot meditate in, then the base speed factor becomes 0 (zero).

    I interpret the mana regen formula as thus:


    Elf with med-able armour, 0 med, 50 int:
    Base Mana regen
    = (0 * 3) + 50
    = 50

    Elf with non-able armour, 0 med, 50 int:
    Base Mana regen
    = 0

    Edit: I didn't clarify earlier that I based case B on this statement - *If you are wearing armor that you cannot meditate in, then the base speed factor becomes 0 (zero).* I take that to mean that the Base mana regen rate gets set to 0 no matter what int the warrior has, so as long as you equip 1 piece of non med-able armour, you don't even get that 50 base mana regen.

    Now, I could be wrong, maybe if you have 0 med, you don't even get that 50 base mana regen. Though I swear my mana seems to regen slower if I wear any non-med armour.
     
  29. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Ah, I did it the other way - I converted all my chars to elves when ML was released, including my stealth mages, tamers and resource gatherers heh. I particularly like the perma night-sight and the ability to have them all look like drow (black skin w white hair). Only switched my warriors back into humans.
     
  30. If you're going by the formula above, the math would work out to be exactly the same either way.

    (0 *3) + 50 = 50 in both cases.
     
  31. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Ahh, apologies, I didn't clarify that part.


    *If you are wearing armor that you cannot meditate in, then the base speed factor becomes 0 (zero).*

    I take this part to mean that Base Mana Regen gets set to 0 no matter what int the warrior has.

    I have added this explanation to the post above.
     
  32. I'd like to see some clarification from the Devs on this one. I don't notice any difference at all in mana regen rate with either of my warriors, whether in med or non-med armor, and I've paid very close attention to the MR rate of my archer in particular.

    Also, is the formula you've given the passive Meditation rate, or the rate of the Mana Regen property? They would be 2 completely different formulas for each.
     
  33. Sounds like a good FOF question!
     
  34. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Good idea! Er, how do we submit it?
     
  35. I agree. I'll let Harlequin do the submitting since he's got all the formulas and such.
     
  36. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    You know me... I never let feelings get in the way of asking a question :) ...la
     
  37. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Question posted :) Was searching to see if there's some submission page, but it seems like making a post would do.

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=123251
     
  38. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    It's a viable template for SP, if you do get jumped a combo of a high damage weapon and fast casting for necro spells can drop anyone who's not expecting it fast. Vampire form would be pretty successful most fo the time, but wraith form is dismounted which is obviously a huge crutch in PvP. you'll be fine as long as you're carrying decent FC/FCR.
     
  39. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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  40. Raze(tmg)

    Raze(tmg) Journeyman
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    do you need ss for curse weapon to work?
     
  41. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    With 0 Meditation skill.
    That'll effect humans... 0.15 mana per second. Barely noticeable.
    and elves not at all.

    ... jackal's collar isnt that great anyway.

    Yes and no. It'll be really short without SS.
     
  42. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, it affects 0 med/focus elves as well. Bonus MR from meditation takes into account Int :)

    50 int, 0 med/focus elves wearing non medable armour gets 0.065 mana per sec. With medable armour, it's 0.19 mana per sec. That's 3 times faster.

    A human with 50 int, 0 med/focus gets 0.429 per sec in med-able armour, 0.1542 in non med-able amour. Also about 3 times faster.
     
  43. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    With the 20 SS from JOAT, curse weapon lasts about 3 secs (about 2 - 3 swings on a fast weap).

    With 0 SS it might lasts long enough for 1 swing if you time it right.
     
  44. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Base regen is 0.2, 20 focus is 0.1 = 0.3. As said, 0.13 mana regen per second isn't actually realistically discernible (1 mana every ~7-8 seconds). Any fighter who know's what he's doing has a mana leech weapon or meditation or high MR or a combination.

    I don't think they count the negative regen for having 0 MR, it wouldn't make sense.
     
  45. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I agree it doesn't make sense, but it really does look like there's a negative modifier (which will reduce the base 0.2 mana regen to 0.05).

    It could be that Pheonix forgot to mention that there's an extra line of code to check for 0 MR, but I suspect this is not the case.

    Wonder if Pheonix will confirm...



    PS - the 0.13 difference is for elves (pre-patch, this be like having an extra MR 1). I know that MR 1 by itself is barely discernible, but if I can get a free MR 1 just by swapping out the collar with a med-able piece, I'd still do it.

    The difference for humans is about 0.28 (pre-patch, this would be like having an extra MR 3).