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Crafting: Leather Armor VS Plate Armor

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Virtually all armor made, sold and used by players is leather armor (including what is used by warrior classes). Why? Because tailor runics are easier to get and (used to) give better runic bonuses. Also leather armor has an advantage over plate armor: much lower strength requirement and always medable. Why would anyone except hardcore role players use plate armor, when leather armor (runics) are more available and will give you the same without these disadvantages? Not to mention that one would expect warrior classes to wear heavy types of armor for more protection.

    Plate armor, or rather, heavy armor should have some advantages over light, leather armor to compensate for the higher strength requirement and lack of medability.

    My suggestion is: Change the probabilities of properties for runic crafted armor (or even armor on loot as well). For example, leather armor would have a higher chance to have LRC as a property than metal/plate armor. And metal/plate armor might have a higher chance to have reflect damage. (LRC on a non-medable armor piece isn't really useful after all.) Such differences would might make heavy armor more desirable (and suitable) for warriors classes, and light (leather) armor less desirable for warrior classes. Vice versa to mage classes.

    Opinions?
     
  2. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Even if they both made equally good armor, I'd still only make weapons with my Runic Hammers since you can't make weapons with Runic Sewing Kits.
     
  3. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
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    Originally I'd have said, what skills you have. That matters little now. As a "warrior" back in the day I chose plate. I loved the increased armour at the cost of dexterity.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Such differences would might make heavy armor more desirable (and suitable) for warriors classes, and light (leather) armor less desirable for warrior classes. Vice versa to mage classes.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is how you can tell those behind Age of Shadows couldn't think longer than 10 minutes. This is how the system was. They tried to improve the system and make it deeper (that they did) and remember to consider the overall impact (that they didn't).

    Mages on the other hand might have worn a plate breastplate (easily removed to meditate) or better yet, jsut a full suit of leather under their robes with a cost in mana regeneration.

    But they stuffed up that nice system didn't they? I got asked the same question when I came back, why do I want to wear plate (as a paladin) instead of a leather set. I said... because I like the protection of a metal suit, it also looks nice. I got laughed at nicely.

    This game is so gear focused, the creative virtual world it once was is now a gear oriented materialistic world.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It used to be better.
    The problem is that all armour is the same. The are not benefits or penalities inherent to the material. Once apon a time there was.

    Leather will be used because you can meditate. It allow meditation and has no drawbacks to say using plate.

    70 physical resist in leather is the same as 70 phyiscial resist in plate.

    Until the do things like have plate protect you against crushing blow while chain and leather give up greater damage.

    Or plate increases eblot damage while leather insulates you.

    Nothing will change

    Runic Hammers weapons
    Runic Sewing leather armour
     
  5. I've seen plate armor worn to great effect.

    As someone else has already pointed out, you can use valorite hammers to make weapons, but you can't use barbed kits to make weapons. So even if you make great armor with your valorite, you've still kinda wasted it, arguably.

    Armor and weapons are really a matter of what properties you need at the moment.

    If you're a mage, you ALWAYS need your armor to be meddable. If you're a warrior, it doesn't hurt. However, if you don't happen to have meditation, and you find an awesome piece of plate armor, you really aren't gonna turn it down.

    I wouldn't anyway.

    I have only 2 characters of note. Galen has Meditation, my other warrior that I use for Doom only has Focus. He'll use non-meddable armor. Galen obviously can't.

    All depends on your needs of the moment, really.

    Damn, this was rambling!!!!

    Oh well.

    -Galen's player
     
  6. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    The unfair advantanges (medable, easier to make, lower requirement, lower material cost) of leather armor over other types of armors (studded, bone, ring, chain, plate, dragon scale) has unbalanced armor crafting since AOS. Since mana is critical for all combat related professions (mage, warrior, tamer, bards, ect.), the medability alone makes leather the armor of choice.

    Why bother changing it? First , diversification is the best feature UO has. Forcing everyone wearing the same type of armor make UO look monotonic. Second , since barbed runic sewing kits are widely scripted, the cheaters basically priced the runic hammers out of the armor crafting market. Without scripting, the price of the barbed kits can easily go up 200-300%. Even that high price won't change the dominant position of leather armors.

    How to fix it? The first thing is to level the playing field for mana regeneration. Two ways of fixing it: 1) make all armors medable and give non-leather armors higher base resists or other bonus. 2) Give focus significantly higher regeneration rates. Combining the higher regen rate and special bonuses on different types of armors, players will gradually adopt different outfits.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Originally I'd have said, what skills you have. That matters little now. As a "warrior" back in the day I chose plate. I loved the increased armour at the cost of dexterity.
    ...
    But they stuffed up that nice system didn't they? I got asked the same question when I came back, why do I want to wear plate (as a paladin) instead of a leather set. I said... because I like the protection of a metal suit, it also looks nice. I got laughed at nicely.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's really my point. For the sake of immersion (it is a role playing game after all) I would like to see some incentive for warrior classes to dress/arm more like warriors.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Originally I'd have said, what skills you have. That matters little now. As a "warrior" back in the day I chose plate. I loved the increased armour at the cost of dexterity.
    ...
    But they stuffed up that nice system didn't they? I got asked the same question when I came back, why do I want to wear plate (as a paladin) instead of a leather set. I said... because I like the protection of a metal suit, it also looks nice. I got laughed at nicely.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's really my point. For the sake of immersion (it is a role playing game after all) I would like to see some incentive for warrior classes to dress/arm more like warriors.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Here is the incentive.
    A mace to the chest.
    What would you want to be wearing?
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    &lt;&lt;Here is the incentive.
    A mace to the chest.
    What would you want to be wearing?&gt;&gt;

    LOL [​IMG] Well said.
     
  10. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    lower str requirements on metal armor , metal armor gets a basic phys resist and DCI boost based on type , these stack with current stats ofc , runic bonuses and enhancements , also make non runic crafted metal armour enhancable with runic hammers , got a nice piece of looted metal armor , try and enhance it with a runic hammer !!! Ohh yeah and a look at enhancement chances would not hurt either , failure rate atm is sickening ..........
     
  11. I see your points.

    (Though I should point out that at least one of your suggestions, making all non-leather armor meddable AND giving it higher resists, would just swing things to the other direction and then we'd see no leather. And I assume that your goal is balance rather than reversal.)

    I think, however, that you are exaggerating some.

    I still see plenty of non-leather armor, though obviously I see A LOT more leather.

    It's really only in Felucca that "everyone" wears leather, and even then it's not everyone, because plenty of dexers still seem to like wearing a Jackal's Collar.

    Most players, of course, never set foot in Felucca.

    The Heart of the Lion should not have been made mage armor, and the Holy Knight's Breastplate should have been made with Lower Requirements.

    Those simple changes would have kept plate armor at least visible, and would have inspired people to design suits around more non-meddable artifacts (other than the Jackal's Collar).

    -Galen's player
     
  12. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I see your points.

    (Though I should point out that at least one of your suggestions, making all non-leather armor meddable AND giving it higher resists, would just swing things to the other direction and then we'd see no leather. And I assume that your goal is balance rather than reversal.)

    I think, however, that you are exaggerating some.

    I still see plenty of non-leather armor, though obviously I see A LOT more leather.

    It's really only in Felucca that "everyone" wears leather, and even then it's not everyone, because plenty of dexers still seem to like wearing a Jackal's Collar.

    Most players, of course, never set foot in Felucca.

    The Heart of the Lion should not have been made mage armor, and the Holy Knight's Breastplate should have been made with Lower Requirements.

    Those simple changes would have kept plate armor at least visible, and would have inspired people to design suits around more non-meddable artifacts (other than the Jackal's Collar).

    -Galen's player

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Making all types armors medable alone won't change people's preference to leather because barbed/horned kits are avialable at such low prices. Horned kits make items with 3-4 mods same as golden runic hammer. Barbed kits give 4-5 mods, same as verite hammer. The price differences for the corresponding hammers and kits are ~500-600%. Right now, the metal armors gives +1 resist more than leather. That won't justify using high end runic hammers to make armors.

    Other than the ideas I proposed (make all amrors medable, speical bonus for non leather, beef up focus skill) to balance metal and leather armor, there is another way doing it: focus the material bonus of each metal ore (valorite, verite, etc.) on just one elemental resist. For example, instead distribute valorite bonus among physical/poison/cold/engery resists, give all the 13 points to physical. Apply the same rule to other ore types. What this will do? This will make armor match a lot easier.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What if they changed the Focus skill so that at 120 focus, you would get lets say, MR of 8 or so instead of 6, SR of 12 is probably fine, and, maybe...hpr of 6 or 8 or something, i'm not sure. Then, have it be that you only gain these benefits if you are wearing ALL non med armor. After all, you only gain benefits from Meditation if you are wearing ALL med armor.
     
  14. Black Majick

    Black Majick Certifiable
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    If I could get my hands on 10 or so val hammers I would have nothing but metal armor. The mods can be insane!!!!!!! 80-100 on 5 mods.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I remember the day i finally got the last piece to my Ind/Invuln Plate Suit off of an Orc Brute. I went and tested it out with my Macer, with Arch Protect cast on me i had a AR of 95, physical attacks did barely any damage to me. Plus i had my Ind/Exceedingly Acc/Vanq War Mace that i got off an Orc Brute too, so not only was my char a tank, he was also a bulldozer, slow with all the Platemail on and War Mace, but hit like a ton of bricks. Didn't use the Plate Suit or War Mace all that much though, was hard to get and was no insurance back then.

    They need to make certain types of Armor able to Resist certain Specials. Like for each piece of Plate Armor you have on, it adds more chance to resist Armor Ignore (Resisting the special could either completely cancel it, or only take 1/2 damage from it). Maybe make it to where they're are drawbacks too, like wearing Platemail makes you take more damage from Crushing Blow (Considering a blade wouldn't work well against Platemail, however a hit from a blunt, bludgeoning weapon would). Leather Armor could resist Crushing Blow (Considering it would cushion the blow).
    Plus there was an idea awhile back that certain mounts could have a chance to resist a Dismount/Riding Swipe/Bola. Faction War Horses would have the highest chance to resist it, while a Destrier (Lesser, Non-Faction version of Warhorse, would have to be added to UO) would have the 2nd highest chance to resist Dismount. Swamp Dragon could have 3rd, etc.

    There are still some old Warriors that wear Plate Armor (Although extremely rare).

    Samurai Style (Entire suit is Meddable, get MR Bonus from Human JoAT Med. Only Leather Piece is Stormgrip Gloves, no Samurai Platemail Gloves exist)
    [​IMG]

    Red Paladin (Only Leather Piece is Stormgrip Gloves, need to get Inquis Resolution for him)
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Even if they both made equally good armor, I'd still only make weapons with my Runic Hammers since you can't make weapons with Runic Sewing Kits.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hell no.

    WOODEN weapons are of course much better than metal ones, as wood actually has useful inherent modifiers, while metal only has crappy elemental damage that doesn't matter if you have consecrate weapon.
     
  17. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Why did you "intentionally" block out your resists?
     
  18. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Even if they both made equally good armor, I'd still only make weapons with my Runic Hammers since you can't make weapons with Runic Sewing Kits.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hell no.

    WOODEN weapons are of course much better than metal ones, as wood actually has useful inherent modifiers, while metal only has crappy elemental damage that doesn't matter if you have consecrate weapon.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    wooden armor aint nothing to sneeze at either , I got pretty insane bloodwood pieces made with heartwood saw
     
  19. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    I was just thinking that studded should get like metal armor should get like 3-6 more resist per peice than leather....

    I just wonder if that would change with a plate peice like Jackal's collar or other metal arty armor... whould the colar become 5/23/27/4/4 or something? would heart of the lion become a bit better? or just crafted?
     
  20. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Dev comment at Jacksonville Meetup:
    <blockquote><hr>

    The leather armor epidemic(interesting point, Leather armor seems to be the only thing people wear, since properties are not limited to certain armor types, leather can beat plate and so on, possible evening out someday)


    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is nice to know dev is aware the imbalance with leather armors. This is a good opportunity to make metal armors more interesting. Currently, the materail bonus from different types of ingots are not that distinct, other than a point of resist here and there. Assign all the resists bonus of certain ingot type to a certain elemental resist will go a long way to help crafters customize armors. Even if doing this require a rare gem, it will still worth it and make rare gems more useful. One of the rare gems can give mage armor property.