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Creating checks larger than 1 mil?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Terrorknight, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. Terrorknight

    Terrorknight Guest

    Does anyone know of any way or plans in the future for uo to allow players to create checks larger than 1 mil each? This game is so item based some items/properties are costing in the 100 mil range, so I think it may be alittle easier. If anyone knows anything please let me know.
     
  2. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Nope. There has being no plans that has being publicly announce for any increase in the checks.
     
  3. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    I'd rather the Devs put time into making goldsinks so such values of gold are not required rather than them allowing such checks.
     
  4. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    ^^ This.

    I wish I hadta stress over how I`m going to pay for that 100 million gold item. rolleyes:
     
  5. I will never happen.
    Imagine duping a gold check for 100 million.

    Having checks added in the flood of gold.

    Sure you can still dupe a 60000 piles of coins.
     
  6. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    It's not so much stress, as there's just no good way to do except to broker deals or take a chance. There should be a safe proceedure in place to buy a large home at the very least. Castles cost much more than 100m anywhere. They are normally 1b or more on Atlantic. This is a legitimate problem.

    I don't think there are too many people that can really afford to lose 1b I know I sure can't. It seems like it would be fairly simple to make a turn-in systems with 1m checks where the seller places the property in the system and the system keeps track of the gold until the price is reached, and then the transfer is automatically made.

    When I bought my castle I had to buy 8 100m gold ingots. I don't suggest that method to anyone.
     
  7. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    I'd like banks to act like vendors, Have just a value, You can't actually move the gold. Have insurance, vendor purchases, trades all take money out of this value. Remove checks, So you can store 60,000 piles in your bank, but anymore and you need to cash it into the value system.

    Theres probably a whole lot of problems, but It's hard to write down my idea, Hopefully I explained it okay.
     
  8. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    The only way I know how to make checks larger than 1 mil is on the Chessy Shard.

    Step one: Convert all gold needing to be converted into Large checks into check form
    Step two: Locate character at Luna Bank named Sarcon
    Step three: Trade all checks to Sarcon (ensure this is done all in one trade window, otherwise it may not work)
    Step four: Wait. Sarcon will dissappear for a short time. He will re-appear in a couple of minutes with your large check.
     
  9. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I hope not, it will only make the 100 mills items cost 500mills.

    Lets drop 1mills check and make it max 500k and maybe later max 250k :lick:
     
  10. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    There has been no indication that they are considering this.

    I don't think it is a good idea.

    The physical limit on storage is, I would argue, important to the economy. It's a pretty cash-heavy economy, with a constant influx of new money as more and more monsters are killed and their gold is looted.

    The current storage system, with a 1m limit on checks and the physical limits of housing and character space, is appropriate.

    It is in no one's interests, even the super rich, to make gold easier to store, as this would just considerably devalue the money we already have.

    I'd argue there's nothing fundamentally "wrong" with the in-game economy currently, other than the wealth disparity and even that is remedy-able and overcome-able by players who are crafty and willing to invest a certain amount of intense gameplay time.

    But if you removed or increased the physical limit on how much gold a character can have? The results would be bad for everybody. Or, at the very least, would be extremely unpredictable in a game that doesn't need more unpredictability.

    -Galen's player
     
  11. Terrorknight

    Terrorknight Guest

    My point exactly. I don't want to get scamed when I buy large houses that are over 125 mil. People that don't want an increase are probably people that don't even have close to that much money to lose. I would just like a safer way to buy high dollar items without getting scammed. Which to me scamming is the biggest issue in UO. I havn't seen anyone speed hack in years.
     
  12. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    *Thinks of a gold sink*

    Double click the dress form to get your very own *Thinks* Skeleton horse!

    (By hitting okay 8,000,000 gold will be deducted from your bank account)

    hehehe
     
  13. No but I wish they would. I'd settle for an item that could hold multiple checks as 1 item.
     
  14. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    I tried this and it didn´t work. And I lost all my checks in the process... :p
     
  15. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    How about a giant rat invasion that eats 99% of the value of all the checks, with leaders who are packrats that take 99% of all the shiney gold coins? :)

    Everyones relative wealth stays the same but the economy is no longer messed up. Everyone still has their valuable items.

    Then, as a result of all this, have the vendors accept no price higher than one million & exchange windows accept no more than 10 million in gold or checks after the rats are driven out. Placing a top limit on prices for things.

    The need for larger checks is gone, and the gold found as loot can be dropped to something less Monty Haul.

    The richest players are still the richest and the economy improves dramatically.

    Heck, if all our characters were really alive, they would be dead from hernias if they really lugged around the amount of coins we commonly do.
     
  16. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    While your reasons might be sound for wanting this I dont think you have seriously considered the consequences. If you currently need to buy an item for 150mil lets say, and the devs go ahead and increase the limit of checks or the amount of money you can hold/trade the price of this item will instantly, before you can even buy it, possibly even before the publish is released increase in price. Maybe you will not have the amount the people would want knowing their limit of gold just dropped off the charts. Honestly inflation is only really limited by the amount of money you can hold, increase this limit and inflation will raise approriately. If they double the limit the item will now cost double. The people setting the prices are the people who "have the money to lose" as you so put it. Altho either a reasonable way to control the economy or a reasonable way to trade more than x amount of checks would be helpfull, an in game trade system such as an npc that you can put x house for sale and accept money from players, when a player starts a transaction another player can not try to purchase the same item faster till the previous person finishes or cancels the transaction, this system could apply to anything really would only need to add a way to add houses (an option on the house menu to make a "sale scroll" is the best i can come up with))
     
  17. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    Are you that rich?

    solution is to give some to me :)
     
  18. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    I'm pro larger checks. Maybe 5 mil.

    Let's face it: prices have been in the many-millions-range for years and chances are slim that it will change anytime soon. So why not make it a little easier?1
     
  19. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    I don't think there's any good reason to spend time increasing check size as opposed to developing an account which is linked to all characters on an account or even if it's not linked it would be better than physical checks.

    I agree that the risk of duping is too great to increase check sizes. I've wholeheartedly supported and even proposed an account based system many times over the years.

    Arguing that increased availability of gold will result in increased inflation is absurd. Gold piles have been capped at 60k and checks have been capped at 1 million forever. Guess what? Inflation has run rampant anyway. Items sell for what people will pay for them. Inflation is a direct result from the insane amount of gold that's generated and how easy it is to accumulate because of the lack of really anything that removes gold from the game.
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    We need more ways to REMOVE gold from the game, NOT more ways to store more of it.

    1 Mill checks have been bad enough to the economy.
     
  21. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    For large Home sales/purchases how about the Devs put the Real Estate NPCs to good use. If you decide to put your house up for sale, access the house sign which guides you through the process and creates a "Deed" in your pack that's worthless, until it's dropped onto a Real Estate NPCs head. If a player wants to buy the house, he simply accesses the NPCs list of Homes for Sale, and then buys the house using his/her available bank balance. The housing tool already keeps track of our combined bank wealth, (although I wish it kept the combined wealth of the entire account available to all characters), so having checks still is stupid anyway..
     
  22. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    You condradicted yourself here. You said raising the cap would not create a greater rate of inflation but then went on to say that inflation is from how easy it is to accumulate gold and no real way that removes it, but if you increase the storage of gold you in fact just raised the inflation rate.....

    If the government prints more money than we currently have the monetary value of each print decreases thus raising prices, for each amount they destroy increases the value and lowers prices (this example is very simple as our economy is a bit more complex than this) so what you are suggesting is that if the government could hold infinite amounts of money thus creating money endlessly it would not impact inflation? The amount of money we can store is directly related to the amount we have thus the amount we are willing to spend thus the amount anyone can sell anything for, if we can hold 125 mil people will charge 125 mil, double it and people will double the prices. This is very basic enomomics it is not absurd at all, if you think inflation is bad now imagine if the current cap on how much a person can hold was removed? There would be no risk of buying an item for 800mil thus people would easily pay that much and thus people would think "we can get more than this" storage affects the risk/reward it also affects inflation. They really should just take the current amount of gold in the game and just remove 90% of it rounding up to the nearest single coin, this would revert inflation, also remove 90% of the gold drops thus keeping the amount of gold low, very simple solution and would not directly impact the current amount of gold any one person holds but significantly help with inflation.
     
  23. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Except for the fact that there is no cap on how much gold one can currently accumulate and store. It's just a PITA. I said raising the check size would not in itself create inflation. I didn't say anything about a cap on how much gold one can have. All I said was that gold is capped at 60k and checks are capped at 1,000,000. This makes keeping your gold in your bank a PITA but does absolutely nothing to limit how much gold you can have. The current system just means you have your wealth spread amongst multiple characters, stored on vendors or in chests in a house and in real estate and items. The current system does not prevent people charging hundreds of millions for big ticket stuff. It just makes paying for it a PITA.
     
  24. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Just needs to be a huge gold sink. Some deco gold statue that reflects in stone weight how many gold leaf checks had been pressed to its budda belly.

    One the best gold sinks be some method of buying up number of locks on a house. And the house pump is lost if sold or destroyed.

    There needs to be a safe method of transfering over 125. A Hord Minion Safe. Yellow lifebar critter then can be loaded with gold and when balance is spoken it tells its worth. Also this UO armored truck takes up 5 pet slots. No stables and is deleted at server refresh. Home owner opens trade window and they see their new fat buddy loaded with gold pop in other window on transfer. Now got to place a house fast to store all those checks. LOL

    I remember photo of a woman pushing a wheel barrow full of paper money. Was during the German Depression after wars end. She was going to buy a couple loafs aof bread.

    UO has become one thos $500 cars with $4000 set of rims. Going nowhere till some serious repairs are done. Boy looks good sitting there.
     
  25. Suzzy

    Suzzy Guest

    That right there is enough reason to not do it. Someone dupes a bag of 100 mil gold, they get another 100 mil. Someone dupes a bag of a billion gold, then another and another, eventually duping a bag with a hundred 100 mil checks? I'd hate to think of the consequences of that ever happening.
     
  26. Im with you.

    You see all. The game once had boundaries/limits on how much gold you could really hold. This create a ceiling. It kept gold in check.

    Once you added vendors that could store 1 billion gold, 1 million gold check and all that... it added to the ability of one account to hack, script or legit farm gold and keep 50 billion on an account via vendors, packs, etc.

    Think about it.

    Caps on gold is a good thing.

    That is why we have inflation in game.... WHICH IS NOT A BROKEN economy. Its just inflation.
     
  27. Wilde1

    Wilde1 Guest

    I would be in favor of 10m checks. An in-game npc broker would also work I guess, but would be more cumbersome.

    As far as some of the reasons against increasing check size...

    1. if you had a 25-100m gold sink (it would need to be that big in order to do anything, economywise) it would have to be for a way powerful/neato item. That would either unbalance the game (powerful item) or everyone who could not afford it would complain big time (neato item). Plus, you know it'd also be for sale at the UO store, which would defeat the purpose in yet another way.

    2. the argument that 1m checks are bad for the economy, or that inflation is limited to the amount of gold you can hold, is silly. The amount of gold in the game is the amount of gold in the game, quantifying it differently doesn't change that. I don't know anyone who would turn down a 1m check because they dont have room for it.

    3. the physical limit theory also fails, because there's no reasonable limit to the amount of gold one can hold. a house can hold a lot of vendors, each of whom can hold a lot of gold. A person can open another account. the only way the "physical limit" gets in the way is when things are sold that cost more gold than you can put in a trade window. that doesn't change the amount of gold, it just creates risk for the players who are buying. it also doesn't function to limit the cost of items, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    4. not being able to control duping is also a bad reason not to implement something good for the game. if check duping still exists, does that mean duping 1m checks is okay? hehe.
     
  28. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    ^^ Yes this. Gold should just be a number in the bank. No way to dupe that.

    In the interim - give us at least $5m checks please. Otherwise we have to resort to storing gold on Vendors.
     
  29. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    1 billion in gold? And you paid what?....100 million?? Man, they saw you coming. Nothing personal dude, but the way players have been allowed to inflate the living hell out of gold and overprice, the games economy has gotten pathetic.

    I've seen it skyrocket in what?? 7 years?? I can careless about the hassles of you guys having to go nuts paying for something, you're just feeding the fire by going along with the program.

    If players could grab some sense and not pay some ludicrous fees, maybe things would be so the avareage player or a newbie can afford something.

    Oh, and just say no to the basement dwellers selling pixels....that would help.

    adios
     
  30. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Relative value of gold is still the same though the reason people have alot of gold still is that relative value of items have remained low with more and more people easily able to get these things for them selves. So real gold is not spent much. Either way when it is it only exchanges hands so it remains in the system anyway. Remmeber what 6-7 years ago when aos first came out what was the price for orny it was like the 80mil range. Which means at that time plenty of gold was still in the system but the relative value of the items where pretty on point because of the rarety of getting one. Once there were too many orny running around relative value droped of the item but gold still remain in peoples hands.
     
  31. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Just get rid of checks all together. Give every one 2 months to cash in their checks to gold piles. If you can store the gold in your house or in the bank let it all rot on the ground. They made all our items worthless when AOS came out it time to do the same with gold.
     
  32. Terrorknight

    Terrorknight Guest

    A thought would be to have a vendor that you would trade in 10 million gold for 1 gold bar. The vendor could charge a fee to make this conversion. And it could even charge a fee to change it back. This way it would take some gold out of UO in the process.
     
  33. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Should we allow people to make checks with values greater than 1m gold? It would just result in people duping huge amounts of gold at once and would make scamming others out of large amounts of gold much more easy. There are almost no legitimate uses for larger checks. We shouldn't allow them to exist.

    Should we allow people to access the Internet? It would just result in people copying huge quantities of copyrighted files and kiddie porn and would make scamming others out of their personal and financial information much more easy. There are almost no legitimate uses for the Internet. We shouldn't allow it to exist.
     
  34. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Two things:

    1: A good supply of desirable and recurring gold sinks, reworking monster loot and other money based systems to lessen the influxx of new gold

    2: Ditch gold as a "stackable" or "deedable" item and have it all internal values... no item = no duping (at least of gold)

    Basic point, the game needs to REMOVE gold at least for a while at a faster rate than it is adding it to the game. Gems for Imbueing are a good start... we need more such repetitive sinks though.
     
  35. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Dumbest arguement ever.

    What if you have a check over 1m it dupes itself?

    If there is a way to dupe anything - you can surely dupe 5 checks of 1mil just as you can dupe 1 check of 5 mil.

    Most of the dupes in the past have been items and not checks.
     
  36. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    It's not the dumbest argument ever. Duping is a fact. Increasing check sizes would just make it that much faster to dupe billions instead of millions.
     
  37. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah, because the items had value of many millions and only occupied one item in a backpack or whatever. Duping high valued items pays off way more and faster than duping a one million check which also occupies the same item count and that item is worth many millions. Increasing check sizes would supplant the items with huge checks instead. Makes perfect sense why larger check sizes would be attractive to dupers.

    Why dupe 100 one million checks as opposed to 100 high-end artifacts? With larger checks then the dupers could dupe 100 one-hundred million checks. Bad idea.

    Eliminate checks altogether and develop an account based system that's not susceptible to duping.
     
  38. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Just so I'm clear about what I'm thinking, increasing check size to huge amounts would be very bad. I'm talking amounts like 50 million or 100 million. That would make the checks much more attractive to dupers than items.

    If check size was increased to 5,000,000 than items would still be the greater target of dupers because so many items are worth way more than 5 mils. The danger zone is when the allowable check size could exceed the value of high-end items.
     
  39. Miss Smoocher

    Miss Smoocher Journeyman
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    why cant they just make a deed that holds how meny checks you need it to hold for that kind of thing. would make it easyer for the really rich to. or maybe one deed that will hold up to 10 checks like they did for power scrolls.
     
  40. Terrorknight

    Terrorknight Guest

    I'd even be happy with 5 mil checks. Like you said most dupers would still try to dupe items rather than checks. Heck i'd be happy with 2 or 3 mil checks. Nothing to big though. (in excess of 10 mil)
     
  41. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Just to make it clear to everyone. Dupes are not common. They come around very rarely due to design bug on a patch. Even when they do come around the dev do close these holes as soon as there aware of except with the last incident with bod dupes though you couldnt dupe items just bods. Last item dupe before that was the changeling dupe because of the way it was coded. They could of being a couple of other limited minor dupes around but not enough to change the economy. Though the Last real gold dupe was a very very long ago probably when the first checks came out because after it happen the dev closed the hole on that. If gold dupes where common right now you be paying 500mil gold for 1k of shadow iron ore.

    The next fact is it doesn't matter if the check is 1 mil or 500mil if a dupe of that magnitute existed again they can continue to dupe 1mil over and over and over again just like 500mil untill they get tired and after maybe 2-3months of the method in circulations. So either way we would be well can't put it nicely.
    Lets just worry about making the game better for us and not worry about things we have no control over.
     
  42. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    How? :p
     
  43. Right now, we can store 1 billion in gold on a vendor, but we can only store 125 million in a bank vault, and we have to remove every item other than gold in order to do so, because our bank vaults will only hold checks, and won't allow us to store our gold like we do on vendors. The really, really rich may have several billion gold on their vendors, but they can't buy a castle in-game because it would cost a billion gold, and there is no way to get that gold off their vendors and into a backpack to trade for the house deed. The Devs should just make a system so that we can store large amounts of gold in our bank accounts like we can on a vendor, and use that gold to buy a castle, large house or other major purchase. Placing a check on a banker NPC could make it add that amount to our bank account, just like the gold on vendors works. Then house purchases could work like when we tell the vendor how much to withdraw. Just state the price and it will be removed from the buyer's bank account and put in the seller's when they trade houses.

    In real dollars, 10 years ago, a castle was worth maybe $1,000 or 10 to 15 million gold, when gold was worth about $75 per million. Now, a castle is worth maybe $1,000 or 1 to 1.5 billion gold, when gold is worth about 75 cents per million. Not much has changed in terms of real money. But UO's inflation has increased as much in 10 years as real-world inflation has in 70 years. It's about like paying $12.50 for a movie ticket last month to see Avatar, when tickets were 10 cents in 1939 when Gone With the Wind was the big hit. My granddad paid $3 per month house rent in 1939, it's $650 today for the same house. A 10 pound bag of flour was 5 cents. Now, it's $2.99 for 5 pounds. But he only earned $5.50 per week working for the county; now, they pay $480 per week for the same manual labor job. In real terms, things haven't changed much. The overall standard of living for the same worker today is about the same as it was back then.

    UO is dealing with the same inflationary spiral that the real-world money supply is dealing with, except that it's happening a lot faster than in the real world. We earn a lot more now than we did 10 years ago, but nearly everything we buy in the game has likewise become more expensive, except the items that have been subject to governmental (or game system) controls. Economically, it's a stalemate. If inflation keeps going for another 10 years at the current rate, gold may be worth a penny a million, but that castle will be worth 100 billion gold or $1,000 in real world money.

    The historical solution to any fiat currency has been that an country's money supply eventually collapses, becomes worthless, and is replaced with a new currency that is backed with something of tangible value, like gold or silver, which has a limited supply and can't be counterfeited easily. UO may eventually have to replace gold with something else, once inflation has made million-gold checks so worthless that people want to barter items or deal in real-world cash rather than use them as a medium of exchange, which has already happened in the case of really uber items and large houses.
     
  44. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    My idea is it to make the value of the checks visible in the trade window, equal how big the checks are.
     
  45. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    there is always the idea that they could put the gold on an account based calc and have no physical gold such as the wow system that would clear up carrying and having gold on hand when you need it. Also no duping of gold ether.... yes you loot it but it goes to that calc on your acct and no wieght problems ether.... its just a thought.
     
  46. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    The duping of items only became widespread after the introduction of char transfers, prior to this items held a ID that couldn't be changed. Duping before consisted of duping checks and house deeds, and than laundering them.

    Also the best gold sink in game was removed with the introduction of lower reagent cost. On top of that, the dev team doesn't adjust current vendor prices for inflation as they have in the past. For example, at one point house deeds were jacked up many times to account for the influx of gold into the game, this was like 98 or 99 though...
     
  47. Luc of Legends

    Luc of Legends Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I got an idea... What about Britiannia Express cards.. hehe.

    But seriously like the CCs you see at walmart, target, etc.. you take your card to minter/banker and fill it with gold. You can use it anywhere.. make it blessed or insurable.


    :lol:


    Luc
     
  48. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    No. The lack of bigger checks only significantly inconveniences the dupers. The rest of us don't have to worry about juggling 100's of millions of gold.

    These items cost that much because the dupers have caused hyperinflation.
     
  49. They Call Me Al

    They Call Me Al Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

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    There is a simple fix for all of this.

    1. Make an NPC broker that is able to do all high end trades/sales (like a point system).

    2. Have said NPC charge a 5% fee for all exchanges over say 50m.

    3. If any items are placed in the broker machine that are duped (broker checks via item ID#) the item is automatically deleted.

    4. The broker gives you 1 real world week to remove your gold/item once the transaction is complete before the broker deletes it's inventory. (to stop people from using the service as a free bank/storage.

    Anyone wanna add anything else?
     
  50. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    The problem is not as much items as it is houses.

    How do you buy a house for 300m such as a luna house? You cannot put 300m in a trade window.