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"Creativity should be free of charge"

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    People are playing games to have fun; to be an outlet for their creativity.

    I was wondering why it still cost money to build walls, why some wallpapers cost 20 times as much as others. Why you have to pay for objects such as trees that do not provide any room rating. Why it cost money to buy windows... etc etc.

    Why forcing people to pay to actually be creative? This game is all about being creative and being social.

    The central focus of of the competitive factor in TSO are furniture with green-up-rating, skilling objects and money objects. Those are the objects that should provide the money drains. Due to lag most top lots are first floor-only squares with as little non-functional objects and walls as possible. Whether a lot is butt-ugly or fantastic looking does not matter at all for those who want to skill up or make money.

    So why should we still pay money for it? Why still charging 20 simoleans for a floortile that does not have an impact in someone's gameplay at all?

    After the merge everyone's bank account will be reset to zero. That will drastically reduce player creativity as they will not be able to build nice lots with lots of scenery. They won't pay for a nice house with nice windows and nice pillars, they will save money for that rating 10 chair so people will actually visit the lot (it has already been proven after all that a square box with rating 10 objects will be more popular than a stunning piece of architecture full of lag)

    My plea is simple. Make all build objects free. Wallpapers, tiles, walls, fences, pillars, trees, everything. It will have a huge impact on creativity yet leave the competive gameplay in tact. It will enable people to participate in building contests with nobody having a distinct advantage over another. It will enable a city to truelly become splendid as lot designers can do what they want. And if people don't like it? Bulldoze and start over till it's right...

    "Creativity should be free of charge"
    Thanks for reading my plea [​IMG]
     
  2. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Guest

    It would also help if they get rid of object limit. In the new house I'm making I hit it and now it is only half done.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That too [​IMG]
    Let owners themselves decide how much they want to suffer from the lag. Give a notification somewhere where you can see the occupied tile-count so you know you are going past normal limits and may experience increased lag.
     
  4. While I agree that prices on objects in build mode make no sense what so ever, I do not believe in giving anything away for free. One of the main goals in TSO life is to skill up and earn money to build your own home and always has been. Building is a very important part of the economy. Too many scams in the past prevented home designers from actively persuing a real estate career. Now with secure deed trading we have a better chance of having a real housing market.

    The current costs we have on build mode objects were dictated to us when they opened Dragon's Cove. I believe there was a time when all floors and walls cost the same amount. As for landscaping, doors, trees and windows I believe they should be based on a flat rate according to size. A two tile window should be less expensive than a 3 tile or 6 tile window. A 1 tile flower patch should be less expensive than a 9 tile tree.

    I believe there are plans to objectify all build objects in the future. So that we can create and upload our own build mode objects to buy, sell and trade. Just as catalog objects will become obsolete once custom content takes over the world, so will the current build objects become less used.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I do not believe in giving anything away for free.

    Most games have a 'sandbox' in which people can experiment and let their imaginations roam free. The dev's could take a dead city like EJ and make it into a sandbox where building was free with no property limits. Of course, limits on moving in and out would have to be set appropriately.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *ttl*

    There is also the issue of 'drains'.

    If we take away the drain of build objects, what will we replace it with?
    In our new game, money in (faucets) must always be balanced with money out (drains), and build mode is a large drain. If it is removed, then the pool will have to be lowered as well or another drain of the same size found.

    Link for explanation of Money Pools.

    The ability to buy and sell cc building tiles, could change the face of building creativity forever. [​IMG]

    But it would be nice it the prices of the catalog tiles were not slanted to favor the ugly and hard-to-use. [​IMG]
     
  7. There is no reason to get EJ involved at all. There are other city maps in EALand that have never even been used. I'm not opposed to a sandbox city but anything done there should not be permanent. Just a place to experiment for new players and completely separated from our real world economy in EALand.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That would be do-able, if they made the time spent there limited and nothing could be removed, that was not in inventory to begin with, when we entered...... [​IMG]

    ....and assuming they have the ability to seperate one section of the EA Map code from another....[​IMG]
     
  9. Seems to me that 'building homes' is probably one of the #1 activities or pretty close to the top of the more popular things to do in TSO.

    It is also probably one of the more significant drains in the economy as well.

    So my vote would be against anything to do with free building 'modes' or sandbox cities. The only 'free' building I would consider would be maybe a very limited 'tutorial' with limited build mode objects, but enough to get inexperienced TSO newbies hooked on building.

    I do believe that walls/flooring should all be the same price because we all have our own likes/dislikes in colors/schemes.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Is it really that big of a drain? A fully wallpapered house just cost a few 1000 simoleons. In contrast, people are pet pulling away millions.

    For the cost of 1 fountain, you can design 2 size 8 lots.

    How would this CC thing work with tiles anyway? I buy a tile-graphic from someone and it's in my tile list to pick? Does it then have a fixed cost?

    Building is one of the most fun things to do. Skilling the most boring thing (fortunately you can chat). You shouldn't force boring stuff on us to be able to do the most fun stuff. Most other games don't have this restriction. Grinding in MMORPGs is not required. In a way it is, but only to reach the top. Just like hardcore hosting sometimes can be a bit of a grind in TSO [​IMG]
     
  11. Maybe you haven't checked the cost of fountains in TC3. Pet pulling is a dead game since there is no longer a sell back feature. Building is a very important money drain.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Is it really that big of a drain? A fully wallpapered house just cost a few 1000 simoleons. In contrast, people are pet pulling away millions.

    For the cost of 1 fountain, you can design 2 size 8 lots.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Johnny you're forgetting that we're moving away from an economy where people have more money then they know what to do with.

    In EALand (and TC3) we start with next to no cash, when you start with $100, a $1000 on wallpaper becomes a much bigger deal, we won't have millions to waste anymore.

    Polly
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    Johnny you're forgetting that we're moving away from an economy where people have more money then they know what to do with.

    In EALand (and TC3) we start with next to no cash, when you start with $100, a $1000 on wallpaper becomes a much bigger deal, we won't have millions to waste anymore.

    Polly

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is my concern. It will kill creativity completely. I won't be there if I have to work through all the boring skilling and painting for 1 hours so I can build a wall with 4 windows and a pillar; it's just silly.

    It means they're moving TSO in the wrong direction again. They have to face this is not a real game. It's a graphic chatbox with loads of fun social and creative possibilities. If they force you to do non-fun stuff, all you will be left is the social part of the game. Who will experiment with house design if they have to first watch their sims paint or do the same action in a factory for hours on end to be able to build something decent? Or let someone else build with their money?

    It will eventually resort to people paying RL money... oh wait...that's their goal hehe.

    Let me simply state that I think it is a very wrong idea to make building the money drain. Implement other drains like rare objects, unique sim animation actions or something. Or implement a true big drain: Quadruple lot size cost [​IMG]
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    People are playing games to have fun; to be an outlet for their creativity.

    I was wondering why it still cost money to build walls, why some wallpapers cost 20 times as much as others. Why you have to pay for objects such as trees that do not provide any room rating. Why it cost money to buy windows... etc etc.

    Why forcing people to pay to actually be creative? This game is all about being creative and being social.

    The central focus of of the competitive factor in TSO are furniture with green-up-rating, skilling objects and money objects. Those are the objects that should provide the money drains. Due to lag most top lots are first floor-only squares with as little non-functional objects and walls as possible. Whether a lot is butt-ugly or fantastic looking does not matter at all for those who want to skill up or make money.

    So why should we still pay money for it? Why still charging 20 simoleans for a floortile that does not have an impact in someone's gameplay at all?

    After the merge everyone's bank account will be reset to zero. That will drastically reduce player creativity as they will not be able to build nice lots with lots of scenery. They won't pay for a nice house with nice windows and nice pillars, they will save money for that rating 10 chair so people will actually visit the lot (it has already been proven after all that a square box with rating 10 objects will be more popular than a stunning piece of architecture full of lag)

    My plea is simple. Make all build objects free. Wallpapers, tiles, walls, fences, pillars, trees, everything. It will have a huge impact on creativity yet leave the competive gameplay in tact. It will enable people to participate in building contests with nobody having a distinct advantage over another. It will enable a city to truelly become splendid as lot designers can do what they want. And if people don't like it? Bulldoze and start over till it's right...

    "Creativity should be free of charge"
    Thanks for reading my plea [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    At first, I partially agreed with you, and I was going to write that it is logical to be charged for walls and floors and paint, because we would be charged for those in RL should we build a custom home, or redo what was already in the home that we bought, but that I felt at least trees and shrubs should be free, since ostencibly they would already be on the property.....but then it occured to me.....yes, some of those would be on the property, but should I want to plant a new tree or a new flower garden then *I* WOULD have to pay for the seeds. In TSO, we're not planting seeds, we get trees and shrubs and flowers that are already grown (well the flowers have to bloom some but you get the point) so why would those things be free?

    I do get your point about stifling creativity, but again drawing a parallel to real life, a person who is more well off is going to have a fancier/prettier/more ornate house than one who is less rich, so it makes sense to me that the more ornate things be higher up on the scale than others. Maybe as a compromise, at least for the first month or so, there should be some wallpaper and floors that are set at $0 so that players don't have to sit in an unpainted walled in section that doesn't even have a floor for the first couple days? Then they'd still have a living area, but would have to have the goal of making more money following skilling, depending on HOW rich they wanted to be.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I do get your point about stifling creativity, but again drawing a parallel to real life,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The question is whether we should draw a parallel to RL in a game where people commit genocide on kittens and dogs until they get a pink poodle...
     
  16. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I do get your point about stifling creativity, but again drawing a parallel to real life,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The question is whether we should draw a parallel to RL in a game where people commit genocide on kittens and dogs until they get a pink poodle...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OMG!!!!

    I don't call 'selling back' a pixelated pet as genocide and btw....what does that have to do with the price in tea in china or free home building?
     
  17. JAB

    JAB Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Is it really that big of a drain? A fully wallpapered house just cost a few 1000 simoleons. In contrast, people are pet pulling away millions.

    For the cost of 1 fountain, you can design 2 size 8 lots.

    How would this CC thing work with tiles anyway? I buy a tile-graphic from someone and it's in my tile list to pick? Does it then have a fixed cost?

    Building is one of the most fun things to do. Skilling the most boring thing (fortunately you can chat). You shouldn't force boring stuff on us to be able to do the most fun stuff. Most other games don't have this restriction. Grinding in MMORPGs is not required. In a way it is, but only to reach the top. Just like hardcore hosting sometimes can be a bit of a grind in TSO [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Personally, I agree it is quite a drain, which I don't have a problem.

    I just finished my own Roof Art in TC3, and it drained me a good 15k probably.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I do get your point about stifling creativity, but again drawing a parallel to real life,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The question is whether we should draw a parallel to RL in a game where people commit genocide on kittens and dogs until they get a pink poodle...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OMG!!!!

    I don't call 'selling back' a pixelated pet as genocide and btw....what does that have to do with the price in tea in china or free home building?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    oh comeon that was just a joke meant to illustrate TSO does not resemble RL [​IMG]
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I do get your point about stifling creativity, but again drawing a parallel to real life,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The question is whether we should draw a parallel to RL in a game where people commit genocide on kittens and dogs until they get a pink poodle...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OMG!!!!

    I don't call 'selling back' a pixelated pet as genocide and btw....what does that have to do with the price in tea in china or free home building?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    oh comeon that was just a joke meant to illustrate TSO does not resemble RL [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Not. a. very. good. JOKE.

    #1 We're talking about EA Land, where sell back like that won't be an option, so the 'genocide' as you put it will come to a halt, not to mention that unwanted animals sadly are put to death every day just because they are unwanted but that's a whole other argument and never should have been brought up here.

    #2 Yes, I do think drawing a parallel to RL is logical since the whole premise of the game, even though 'Be Someone. Else.' is the slogan, is about life simulation, going through the mundane tasks of RL such as eating, sleeping, taking care of hygiene etc. If it were not, then it'd be like other games where you hardly ever, if ever have to feed your character, and never have to shower him or have him use a toilet. Having to do those things, to me, already draws that parallel.....the slogan just indicates that I do not *have* to be myself while doing it, I can be a bear, an alien, a monkey, or whatever.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Building is one of the most fun things to do. Skilling the most boring thing (fortunately you can chat). You shouldn't force boring stuff on us to be able to do the most fun stuff. Most other games don't have this restriction. Grinding in MMORPGs is not required. In a way it is, but only to reach the top. Just like hardcore hosting sometimes can be a bit of a grind in TSO

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'd have to disagree here. I've played several MMORPG's with my hubby when I was on hiatus from TSO, and there wasn't any of them that did not require money to build. The only difference was that skilling to make money was not as boring, but you did have to 'train' your character in combat skills, and then go out and kill monsters for gold to put in your bank and then come home and build your lot. Many players could only build one wall or one section at a time before having to go out and kill more monsters. I wholeheartedly agree that the process of skilling, and even the process of making money, could be more intriguiging, but I've never seen an environment that it wasn't necessary to do it in. I've been on one free UO shard that would give newbies their initial house for free, but it was a *tiny* house with stone walls that could hardly be decorated at all, so it was a place to hang your hat until you could earn more money to build what you wanted, but that was it.

    No, my vote would either be to leave it like it is or to have a sandbox city. I personally would restrict the number of hours a day that a player could be logged into the sandbox city though, to prevent people from spending all their time in it and creating the same ghost town situation we have from spreading our population out too thin as it is, but I'm sure those who want the sandbox city would probably vote that one down.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [quoteNo, my vote would either be to leave it like it is or to have a sandbox city. I personally would restrict the number of hours a day that a player could be logged into the sandbox city though, to prevent people from spending all their time in it and creating the same ghost town situation we have from spreading our population out too thin as it is, but I'm sure those who want the sandbox city would probably vote that one down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sandbox building would be a neat idea for a lot designer to show their wares. You could build a lot and can 'transfer it' to the lot owner in the main city for the raw building cost. That way mistakes like accidently fully floortiling a size 8 lot due to click-lag and lose hours worth of money.

    The problem as it is now is that you cannot experiment anymore as that cost a heavy fee. "Trying" out different wallpapers to check out the looks is not an option as you will drain through your money in no time. Using shift to see how something looks is a risky work-around as I've experienced the shift-paint bug where it gets painted even while you didn't click more times than I can count.

    Being forced to install old sims games to experiment sound kinda silly to me.
     
  22. <blockquote><hr>


    Being forced to install old sims games to experiment sound kinda silly to me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why is that silly? Actually, I have always used The Sims to create designs. Now that I have a new computer I am using Sims2 because I can.

    The one thing I've found using Sims2 for design purposes is that there are many many things in the computer based game that would be WONDERFUL to have in TSO.

    For example:

    *instead of asking the devs spending time to get rid of the hideous lag caused by the dance floors, why not base the 'dancing' on the stereo instead? It would also aid in freeing up up a bit of 'object' limit.

    It also puts into prospective what the Dev's are trying to do on TSO. Everyone wants to compare the new EAland to SL. But actually, it's just evolving to be more like the offline game but with more capabilities.

    For example:

    *Sims2 you can directly access the internet without logging out of the game? Custom content is much easier to access and download and you don't even have to leave the game to do it.

    I believe that there are a lot of bored, unsatisfied players in TSO and I think that running Sims2 along with TSO right now could relieve their boredom and get them some new ideas for what they would like to do on TSO or what they would like to suggest bringing to TSO.
     
  23. mike1977

    mike1977 Guest

    But it would be cool if there was an offline exe (if you don't have the offline sims game) that when you run it would just show an empty lot identical to the one in the online game where you could just build and try out wallpapers, etc. without worrying about game money.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'd like to see all build mode objects be tied to the new variable economy...we'd see a lot more variety in carpets/wallpapers/etc if the cost depended on how much it is used.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm looking forward to walls and floors becoming objects so I can upload things that match!!

    I think building is a drain we really need. If they reduce the cost of building what drain will replace it?
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I'm looking forward to walls and floors becoming objects so I can upload things that match!!

    I think building is a drain we really need. If they reduce the cost of building what drain will replace it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's a very good point. The drains we have now, plus maybe even new drains like bills and/or taxes are going to be or already are a key factor in keeping the economy under control. Not enough things to spend simoleans on = people hoarding millions = sellers of rares figuring out that most people have millions and therefore they charge millions. Result: an overinflated economy structure without bots even necessarily being present. Granted without bots it would happen slower, but without drains and new things for people to spend their money on, it will still happen over time. Some might ask what the big deal would be if most everybody had those same millions, but think about the newbie coming into the game with just his first $500 and the clothes on his sim back...literally. The only prayer that newbie would have would be if there was a payout money house giving the obscene payouts I started seeing in AV and BF right before the launch of TC3 when I returned to the game. And I say prayer loosely because even if that newbie finds it, that's by no means a good thing.....it just *might* make the newbie quit out of hopelessness to be able to keep up with Bob and Betty Newbie themselves, but could also lead to him getting what he wants quicker than he should, and quitting soon after that out of boredom anyhow.