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Curse of the dragons

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hoffs, May 18, 2008.

  1. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    I sometimes despair at the lack of overall plan and leadership in UO. Not so far back we had the champs being buffed up to generally increase the difficulty of doing spawns. Hoorah indeed.

    But soon after we had the introduction of the tameable uber-dragons. Now these ubiquitous pets make light work of virtually any PvM (leaving aside PvP considerations). I could never solo DH or Mel before, now they are absurdly easy. Getting the keys for Mel and Travesty is a walk in the park with a stealth tamer. Harrowers used to be a challenge, but now just a few of the new pets will do the job and 7-8 will chomp ol' harry up in no time at all. I remember fighting a paragon wyrm with several people and failing miserably. Now I hear that people can take them down alone with a our favourite drakes. *sigh*

    Presumably, with every tamer and his brother-in-law now in possession of one they will never be nerfed. We are stuck with them. But why-oh-why didn't the producer or person in overall charge of the game foresee this? It just leaves one with the impression that it is a 'suit' running the show rather than someone who intimately knows, and has a passion for, the game.
     
  2. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    1. What do dragons have to do with an overall plan and leadership?

    2. Unlike you, many people COULD do DH and Travesty solo (but not really Mel), so new toys just add one extra uber weapon to the bunch.

    3. A short story: Just a couple days ago, I decided that I want to help my friend earn some ophidian rations so she could have night sight earrings. Three of us took pets to the Ophidian plains in the desert, two of them took their dragons while I, knowing about the constant poisoning, took my cu sidhe. The snakes ate the dragons for dinner while the cu didn't have much trouble at all until it suddenly ran into the middle of everything (my fault, not the pets. I'm still learning). So the dragon may be great for some hunts, for others, there are other, better pets.

    Besides, the person hunting with the dragon STILL can't move faster than a run, which does add a level of difficulty to the paragon and peerless hunts, who move almost as fast as a horse.

    And... I like the dragons. So does literally everyone I play with on a regular basis. So the people with passion for the game were catering to us. And it worked. I'm sorry you don't agree.

    And I still hunt Mel with my mage and DH, paroxy and Trav with my sampire.
     
  3. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    Yes, of course people like their dragons. I like my dragon. But then many people would like it if ingredients and arties spawned all over the ground in forests, but it would not do much for the longevity of the game.

    However, the dragons just debase the overall difficulty of monsters and it is the job of leadership to foresee such things. And why buff up the champs with one hand and then give people a far bigger club to bash them with on the other?
     
  4. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I can't remember the exact time or source, but there has been mention of a balancing pass of PvM. There are a good few inconsistencies with loot tables on older monsters and the overall strength of one template compared to another. For example the barding difficulty tables need a real overhaul, as 120 skill is essential if you're after high end spawn. In comparison, a 110 tamer has good control over all tameable pets.

    That said, for years I've stood vetting my pets while a warrior beside me took down the same mobs in a fraction of the time. Even my part trained sammy was soon rivaling my tamer's pets for damage. In all honesty, we are really just leveling up to the strongest warriors who were soloing high end spawns. I'd have much more concern at a solo player with a sword doing those spawns than a tamer + pets doing it. Not because I want my tamer more powerful, but because you'd expect a big bad old dragon to do more damage than a tiny human with a pointed stick :p

    Wenchy
     
  5. It's not the size of your pointed stick.......it's how you use it. :lick:
     
  6. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    Before the superdragons, there was no pet that enabled a tamer to be at a fel champ spawn and have similar defensive and offensive abilities as any other template.

    A dog was the only thing that really had the tankyness to properly work a champ, but as non-spellcasters they didn't have what it takes to be powerful in PVP. A beetle-bake still kills people faster than a superdragon from what I can tell, but the pets in that pair aren't individually tanky enough to work at a champ spawn. Those 2 pets also cannot survive the gank well, and fel champs raids are All About The Gank. Other templates didn't have issues like these.

    Nowadays you are seeing lots more of the tamer templates at champ spawns and yes they have superdragons. Before, you saw almost none, with ANY pet. If you raid a champ spawn today and there's a tamer there, the tamer's ability to defend himself (the superdragon) is dangerous enough to be considered alongside of those of a necromage or archer or dp dexer, except that the tamer's offensive power is capable of running away and leaving the tamer on foot and vulnerable. A fully-trained superdragon's killing power can be extreme, but it's sorta being balanced against the personal safety problem that being unmounted in the middle of a gankfest causes. But hey, at least they aren't necros? ;)

    Template-for-template I think superdragons are a great addition, and I suspect that the new dread horses just might have a nice niche too.

    The question could be asked: do tamers belong as a viable pvp and fel champ spawning template? The UO people appear to have decided yes. Debating that point is seperate from debating whether or not superdragons belong or don't. In context I think they do.

    Regarding peerless: I have some of the best superdragons around and there's no way I can take a tamer and one of my superdragons and solo Mel - if someone here can, let's hear the methodology! The highest-level specialty dexers have been soloing Dread for a good while now, and while I have not tried this with my tamer, I wouldn't consider it out of place if the best superdragons with the sharpest tamers could pull it off. No pets can touch paroxy, and grizzled has been doable by the highest level dexers and also high level tamers with good Hiryus - I expect that the right super works even better against grizzled than the Hiryus.

    --------

    Yesterday, a DP dexer tried to kill my tamer. He was poisoning me and armor ignoring the hell out of me, and everyone knows how quick you can die when one of these guys is doing that to you. I had my best PVP superdragon at my side, and put it on him, I didn't have time to get a bola going. The result was that he had to run off repeatedly because it was tearing him a new one, which allowed me to get cured and healed back up. He'd come back and try again but I'd ball the dragon back by then, and the fight repeated. He almost killed me, but almost doesn't quite count, and I think my dragon almost killed him. I don't think he expected the dragon to hit as much as it did (it's a quite high wrestling skill dragon, like I said it's my best PVP one).

    mmmmmm.
     
  7. "Regarding peerless: I have some of the best superdragons around and there's no way I can take a tamer and one of my superdragons and solo Mel - if someone here can, let's hear the methodology!"

    It most certainly is being done. I know 2 people for certain that both solo Mel with their dragons.
     
  8. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Y'know, wouldn't it be a great twist if these incredibly powerful dragons suddenly decided to start turning on their masters? I mean, they just recently redid the control coding for pets and mass-agro effects by way of the Cloak of Corruption... wouldn't it be awesome if they were made so strong just so everyone would get one and cause an amazing event to happen? A sort of "dragon's revolt"?

    Honestly, I can't see them putting something as strong as that in without an alterior motive, and they seem to like twists like that, so...

    And anyway, they already proved they're willing to pull that kind of stunt.. remember the blackrock turn-in? Giving away all that super powerful stuff to ensure everything goes according to plan.. it's wonderfully devious.

    Suddenly super-powerful dragons start appearing with no explanation as to where they came from, and nobody bats an eye as to a history because it's like a typical content patch for the game.. it is, in all honesty, the perfect set-up.
     
  9. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I always wished they had some sort of mass curse like the white wyrms used to. Something to keep a tamer on their toes considering the high level that the greater dragon is. I still remember my faction mates all standing a screen away from my WW for fear of that curse lol.

    Wenchy
     
  10. Tamais

    Tamais Lake Austin Reporter
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    oooh good point. As they improving the AI of the mobs I can see a day when our ever faithful pets say "I've had enough. you keep sending me in to get bet up. STOMP how do you like it". Perhaps those of us who were silly enough to play with blackrock will acciedently infect our own pets. Ouch
     
  11. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Greater dragons are the weapon that tamers were waiting to come back at the top of PvM. Several years ago, pala-archers threw the old nightmare + WW to slow not-too-risky PvM weapons. When Rune Beetles were added, that enhanced the situation, but tamers were still more tanks than damage dealers. Cu Sidhe really boosted tamers for PvM if you have an elf or the pads (Reptalon being total crap), but that's still shy with the now popular artifacts.
    Greater dragon are finally at the height of artifacts wearing necro mages and pala archers.
    Too powerful? I don't think. The number of control slots seems appropriate to me.

    And now with the dread warhorse, tamers begins to have a comfortable panel of weapons to choose for top PvM. Like when you chose an unicorn rather than a nightmare to fight poison mobs, etc.


    Of course that means there's going to be more tamers with greater dragon that will behave like idiots and annoy other players. But they're the same players, they just changed weapons. So please don't blame "the tamers" if one annoys you ;)
     
  12. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    I know someone who (uhm...) can do it dual clienting.... I wasn't counting that as soloing though.

    I'm thinking the best chances would be a spellweaving mage tamer? My tamer doesn't run SW so, I don't have the best insight into that. Wonder how they deal with the satyrs.
     
  13. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It's the inflationary spiral of single player games, the only way most game developers know how to keep players interested.

    It's a shame because social interactions and wider game play options really suffer for it. But you can't tell that to players who only ever played that kind of system too.
     
  14. Joyous2K

    Joyous2K Guest

    The one solo mel tamer I have heard from... never saw it, so not sure if it is BS.... said he does it by logging out all the time. SO that's not even cool. FIght a little, when the fight is lost, run to back and log out and in and heal and repeat. Not sure what else he is (other than tamer)... I forget who I talked to, but that was the gist I got out of it... run away and log in and out. 1 hour to get some ogre protection? I don't think so!
     
  15. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
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    since EA making these super new pets maybe its time to take a look at player char too, raise our stat/skills/HP so we can kill these stupid never should of been added to uo super beasts!
    fighting tamers are nearly impossible on the battle field, these stupid dragons cast 1 fire ball and can do 60+ damage! this is just nuts! no one should be able to control them. if i was the dragon and someone tried to tame me id fire ball his butt 2xs and take all his goods!!!! dragon are very intelligent creatures and laugh at humans! you should have to pay them 500k a wk just to not kill you!
     
  16. RedDaTeef

    RedDaTeef Guest

    Heres is red's word of the day concerning Superdragons, kids: "Pathetic"

    Can you say: "I'm a pathetic tamer."? Good, now were getting somewhere.
     
  17. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Some people think of what good for the game.

    Unfortunately the majority only think of what's good for themselves.


    I agree... Super Dragons along with the other overpowered templates suck.

    UO, the only online MMORPG where everything is able to be done solo.
     
  18. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
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    How ironic. Here is why:

    I am assuming the last sentence is a complaint.

    UO has had a great deal of solo content for years and years. I agree it may be much more solo content then other games out right now (except perhaps the market leader). And playerbases self select on the playstyles available in the game. Those that don't find what they like, generally leave. So we would have to say that an awful lot of the existing players like playing solo. And if you change that too radically to group play required, they will say bye bye as well.
     
  19. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    mmmm. How bout AI where superdragons can make a large number of comments at their owners and have it be contectually relevent.

    Dragon's standing around doing nothing for a good while. "Are you bored yet?"

    Pet owner dies. "Do you take your armor off and play with it or do you wear it?"

    Pet owner feeds dragon. "Can I eat your arm too?"

    * hee *
     
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