1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Damage Increase, clearing some bad FoF advice

Discussion in 'UHall' started by curlybeard, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lowering Damage Increase below 100% will impact your maximum damage output per swing even if you have a single slayer or other combination of spells and effects to reach the "300% cap". There are two calculations that affect weapon damage that were not clearly identified as distinct calculations in the FoF.

    First, your maximum damage per hit is 3x base damage. Base Damage is listed on the status gump.

    Damage Increase affects your damage capabilities in multiple ways. Removing DI to below 100% will lower your maximum damage capability considerably. Damage from a single hit cannot exceed 3 times Base Damage, a function of:

    Weapon Damage (item property)
    Strength
    Tactics
    Anatomy
    Lumberjacking (for axes)
    And Damage Increase (capped at 100%)

    This function can be found at: http://www.uoguide.com/Damage_Calculations

    These stats and skills determine your Base Damage as displayed on the status gump. Some spells and weapon specials boost Damage Increase (DI) and can affect damage if and only if DI is less than 100%.

    Second, To determine your Damage Multiplier sum 100% for Base Damage with any combination of the following:
    Super slayer (100%)
    Single slayer (200%)
    EoO (up to 82%)
    Perfection (up to 100%)

    *note: Lightning Strike criticals are an additional 100% of Base Damage as direct damage.

    Lightning strike criticals and armor ignore both ignore target resist. Armor Ignore effectively converts your entire hit to direct damage.

    I think there may be some spells or weapon specials other than those listed above that affect the Damage Multiplier in a manner similar to EoO.

    Finally, To determine your Final Damage Output multiply your non-direct damage output by the quantity 1 minus the target's resist, then add any direct damage. Final Damage Output cannot exceed 3x Base Damage.



    TL;DR:The way to figure your damage cap is by multiplying your displayed damage range on your status gump by 3. Damage Increase is important as it determines you base damage, and also affects you maximum achievable damage.



    Thanks Wizal. I think I finally have the damage formula correct.


    Maximum Damage Output = 3 x Base Damage

    Base Damage = f(weapon damage, strength, anatomy, tactics, lumberjacking, damage increase*)

    Final Damage Output** = Damage Multiple x Base Damage x (1 - Target Resist) + Direct Damage

    Damage Multiple = 100% + Sum(EoO, Perfection Bonus, Slayer Bonus, etc.)

    * capped at 100%
    * Final Damage Output cannot exceed the maximum
     
  2. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe not bad advice, just unclear

    Original FoF link

    http://www.uo.com/fof/fiveonfriday63.html

    Edit: Rereading the FoF I think my source of confusion is that there are two separate multipliers both called "damage increase". The original question specified without items, so the magic item property damage increase is not in effect.

    The magic item property damage increase does have an interesting role in how damage output is calculated and I think it is you unfortunate that it was left off Jeremy's original explanation.

    In my explanation only the magic item property is called damage increase.
     
  3. Bleak

    Bleak UO Software Engineer
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    723
    Bleak Approved :thumbsup:
     
  4. arkanos

    arkanos Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    4
    This should somehow be saved or stickied....(or put on the 2 major sites)
     
  5. Wizal the Fox

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    23
    I want royalties :)
     
  6. DenAlton036

    DenAlton036 Guest

    Thank you for taking the time to post this.. My head has been spinning with all the damage research I have done over the past few months.. Actually.. it is still spinning.. but thank you anyway :)

    Den
     
  7. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    351
    Hmm maybe I missed something... but I know that

    Super Slayer + Enemey of One (50%) Maxes out the dmg I do vs the correct monsters.

    If I regular hit an earth elemental for 20 dmg with a longsword then adding in Enemy of one (50% @ 80 skill I think) makes that 20 dmg become 30. If I then use an elemental slayer longsword that 30 doubles up to 60... '

    In your example
    If I plug in #'s for my Dmg Multiple = 100% + SUM( EEO 50% : Super Slayer 100%) Then it appears my Dmg Multiple is 250% Instead of the 300% I'm observing. Anyway it's too late to think lol... or did that not look quite right to anyone else?
     
  8. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,644
    Likes Received:
    831
    There's a 300% PvM damage cap, so it's possible to go over if you, say add a Vermin Slayer talisman, etc
     
  9. Wizal the Fox

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    23
    @Vexxed: EoO is not 50% anymore, it is scaled according to your %Chivalry: at 120 Chivalry it is 82%, so couple that with a super slayer and you are at +182%, meaning a multiplier of 2.82, so very close to the max (but not still not the max). Now if you also use Consecrete Weapon, there is a new special bonus of 15% at 120 Chivalry, which pushes your final multiplier up to 2.97, in which case chances are you can't see the difference between 2.97 and the max (3.00)...

    @curlybeard: Welcome to the club of beeing alone vs everyone that will tell you that you are somehow wrong :) You will see how it feels after a while :)
     
  10. Mr. Smither1

    Mr. Smither1 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    66
    If I understand this thread 300% is the max unless you critical hit or have lumberjacking right? I have seen bush throwers and lumberjack sampires with perfection do over 300 on lighting strikes.
     
  11. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, that is incorrect.

    3 x base damage is the maximum. Base damage is the damage range given on your status gump. You will not do more than that.

    Assume you have an ornate axe and the following stats:

    weapon damage 18-20
    150 Strength
    120 Tactics
    120 Anatomy
    100 Lumberjacking
    100% DI

    Your base damage is 77 to 85

    Your max damage is 255

    If you are fighting earth elementals with a physical resist of 30% and assuming that your weapon is 100% physical:

    Your damage range against the earth elemental is 53 to 59.

    Your max damage is 255 (unchanged).

    If you have an earth elemental slayer (and no other effects), your damage range is 161 to 179.

    Your max damage is 255 (unchanged).
     
  12. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    A soul glaive with the above stats will do 261 max damage per hit. (No lumberjacking and 18-22 weapon damage).

    Keep in mind that spell effects such as spell plague, lightning strike, velocity, etc. fire separately and are not included in the max damage calculation.

    It is possible to do a total of 300 damage with a single hit in this scenario with a soul glaive; no more than 261 damage can be from the weapon. The other 39 points will need to come from effects that fire separately.

    My understanding is the Lightning Strike critical hits are direct damage, but included in the 261 maximum weapon damage.

    The soul glaive is an amazing weapon in that it does monstrously high damage and has armor ignore.
     
  13. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,856
    Likes Received:
    51
    My differential equations class was more fun than reading this thread. But I do appreciate those who figured this stuff out. :)
     
  14. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,788
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Lightening Strike hits harder than Armor Ignore on critical hits (If you have perfection) the reason is because Armor Ignore does minimum weapon damage on every hit, lightening strikes do a complete armor ignore And potential for max base damage, of course lightening strike doesn't crit every hit. which is where the "balance" comes in.

    and you can definently do more than 261 damage with a critical hit

    my gm LJ dexer crits for 290 -325 with slayer +100% DI from items, 120 tactics anatomy and 150 str =D that 325 hit might have been on the 10% LJ proc and Lightening Strike crit (i have only hit for 325 once with the ornate axe im only at 70ish Bushido currently as well)

    But a gargoyle should beable to hit just as hard since the base damage on the throwing weapons surpass 2handed Melee weps (specially the ones that don't benefit from the LJ damage bonus....)
     
  15. curlybeard

    curlybeard Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll take your word. I don't fully understand LS crit hits and how they fit in to the equation. Would be a good Dev question.
     
  16. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,788
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    I've only noticed that LS Crits tend to hit harder than AI, But since LS does not crit 100% of the time, dps would be better to spam AI, and use LS when mana is too low.

    In the AI tooltip it says "Ignore's Targets Resists but deals slightly lower damage than the weapons maximum potential." This doesn't apply to LS crit hits it seems.