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dci bullsheet

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Scratch, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    before you say scroll up my char and get hit chance
    i have 120 swords tactics anatomy bushido parry heal
    i have max hci plus any bonuses from bush etc

    why is it that i can not hit a mage at all before he can cast explosion flamestrike on me or worse with a necro mage

    this stacking of dci on mage weps is absolutely ********
    mages with 60+ dci are impossible to hit and they dont even need parry anymore

    hell i can hit a parry mage but not a dci mage
    and there is no dex requirement for dci like there is for parry

    total bullsheet

    make dci require dex like parry
    atm dci is > parry with no dex requirement
    kinda defeats putting a dex req. on parry in the first place

    another example of a bandaid fix from ea
    use better bandaids so they stop falling off
     
  2. DCI is capped at 45%. They capped it a LONG time ago.

    I play a Parry DCI mage and i Still get hit alot. But since theres gonna be whining about Mages Using DCI lets whine about Dexxers Using DCI as well i mean heck i can almost never land a hit with my warfork on dexxers. Oh and i know while they are taking out DCI to mages lets add a System that Makes Dexxers have to hit keys to time they swings kind of like mages having to hit different keys to cast spells and then make it so that their swings can be disrupted just like mages spells do. This should help make it take alittle more skill the point click follow once in while hit AI Deathstrike Bleed Mortal or Moving shot.

    ~Blade
     
  3. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    dci can be stacked over 45 say to like 65 so when hit with lower defense you will still be over cap.
    that is lesson one

    dexxers will have no problems having a dex requirement on dci since most already have the dex
    lesson two

    mages with 65 dci regardless to what you think the cap is are impossible to hit
    and they get to have 100 str 125 int and only 30 dex
    lesson three

    maybe you should know what you are talking about before posting
     
  4. Budweiser

    Budweiser Guest


    LOL ROFL Maybe you should try playing a mage Scratch....oh wait.............:next:
     
  5. i play a mage with 80 dex unbuffed from bless and pots with 120 parry and a ton of DCI and still get hit.

    as for knowing what im talking about Im the one playing the mage with parry and dci not the dexxer who is whining about DCI being the prob.

    Like i said with my DCI (15 arcane 15 aof 5 q of inf 15 ring 9 weapon = 59%) and 120 parry with 80 dex before using a pot or bless and i still get hit a ton.

    So if other dexxers can hit me alot yet you cant hit a DCI Parry mage then your point click char needs to be tweeked not nerf the people you cant kill just because you want to be in god mode.

    Dont try to give me lessons in UO. I have prob been playing longer then you.

    You want them to add a dex req to use a item bonus on items then while we are at it lets add a intel req for FC and FCR, Let add a Intel req for HCI.

    ~Blade
     
  6. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Not everything posted in black and white are facts, even if it was posted in publish release notes. Most are unintentional do to simple mistakes.
     
  7. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    dec 97 here and 120 parry with 59 dci and 80 dex
    you only get hit by spells not dexxers
    if you say you are you are full of it
     
  8. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    hmmm my 120 wrestle 120 parry 60 dci mage gets hit plenty enough , dont have natural 80 dex , but who pvp's without pots anyway ???
     
  9. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Blade is a Parry/Mage, and does get hit by Warriors. I should know, when he came back to UO and was in KOA, me and him sparred a few times, i won some, he won some.

    Awhile back there was an expoit that made people almost impossible to hit. 120.0 Swords/120.0 Bushido and max HCI, swinging every 1.25 secs with Lightning Strike toggled (+50% HCI) and some HLD, and all i heard while fighting a certain Necro/Parry/Mage was the *Whish* of my wep missing or the *Tink* of him parrying. During almost the entirety of the 2-3 minute fight, he was standing right next to me and casting, and i landed maybe 5-7 hits, most of them was when i miraculously landed a Disarm (He was using Staff of Magi). He even had enough time to summon a Daemon right next to me without being hit. With 120.0 Swords/120.0 Parry/120.0 Bushido/45%+ DCI and over 80 DEX, i don't dodge or block that often. Even with Evasion active...
     
  10. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    As soon as your dex goes below 80 from a curse your parry is virtually worthless. If you really wish to hit the other toon you really need to begin working with hit lower defense weapons. If you dont start there then you have no one but yourself to blame for getting pwnt.
     
  11. chad

    chad Sage
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    scratch has been crying this same song for months. just ignore him, nobody takes him serious.
     
  12. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    My PvP Mage runs with 120 Wrestle and 45% DCI, and the typical dexer (when I am stupid enough or in a situation where I have to get close) at a Champ spawn hits me about 60%. Archers about 75-80%.

    If you're missing more than 2 in 5 swings on a mage something is wrong. A mage can't get a higher dodge rating than I have and I'm hit at least that much.

    And frankly, DCI doesn't work like it is supposed to. If it did, a dexer would require -
    120 in their weapon skill, and 45% HCI for 50% hit rate
    - against me.
     
  13. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    HCI and DCI are capped at 45%. Anything over doesn't count (unless you consider HLD, then it matters). So them being 120 and you being 120 with both max DCI and HCI there is a 50% chance of you hitting or missing. Every swing you have a 50% chance to miss. Hitting or missing one time does not increase your odds for the next hit (as most people's minds thing). I am sure you get some streaks also when you hit like 4-5 times in a row also.
     
  14. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    The cap is 70, HLD gives -25.

    Parry has the dex requirment, not DCI.
    You are both capped at 45%.. Hitting is like flipping a coin - 50/50%

    maybe you should know what you are talking about before posting[/QUOTE]
     
  15. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    I know just what Scratch is talking about and empathize with him.

    I did some in-depth testing of hit chance on test center a few months ago to see if it even worked right because in the field on my archer it feels wrong to miss so often. I used a 45 HCI archer in my testing against a no-parry 45 DCI dexer. I used a sample size of hundreds of arrows.

    I found that the archer hit exactly 50% of the time, and this is what their own formulas do say it should be. Whether or not this is a nice way to design it (considering mage-type classes don't necessarily have 50% of their spells fizzled) depends upon other things.

    Something that felt bad about it though, both in testing and in the field, is that the pattern of hits and misses was so crappy. I saw long strings of misses and long strings of hits. Archery is comparatively slow in terms of swing speed and missing like 8 or more times in a row is basically not fair, yet thats what I saw. I wish I had kept the data that showed the patterns, but I didn't.

    After that, I felt like something should be implemented to break up these long strings of misses (and, well, the hits too). In a fight that lasts all of 10 shots, 10 misses isn't fair (and 10 hits would also not be fair). 5 should hit 5 should miss and the way the hit chance percentage is being applied appears to be frustrating for all sides.

    Parry....... is, well. It appears that it is simply not intended to use a dexer to be able to kill someone who has both high parry and maxed dci and especially when the Bushido comes into effect....

    I have one of those 120 parry high bushido max DCI fencers and my friend has a similar swordsman, and one day we tried to kill one another. It was not possible. After several failed attempts to hit, one guy disarms the other one and then the disarmed guy gallops around a bit until he can rearm, and otherwise occasionally a hit might land, but anyway.

    I have also used my archer against his swordsman (as well as against more realistic PVP parry dexer templates without bush), and the outcome of that makes me believe that parry and high DCI is intended by the UO people to make someone basically unkillable to archers. Archers cannot disarm someone but the parry dexer can, so in a real PVP situation it's just a matter of time until the archer gets stuck on something and gets disarmed and gets chopped apart like nothing at all. A parry mage would be in a similar situation except the mage can't disarm the archer, but when the archer cannot hit, it means that the mage will not be interrupted, so it ends up skewed the same way.

    So, since the UO people seem to have intended parry to be this way, I've not given it further thought. When I have to fight a parry mage or a parry dexer on my archer, I just try to occupy him till someone who can kill him comes. All the while that person may be making fun of me and so on, not grasping that it's a deliberate template design thing from above (not their personal, huge PVPness).

    I don't like this whole business where the implementation doesn't give dexers what feels like their fair 50% hit chance in smaller samples of shots. This is the reason:

    When a string of 10 misses kicks in, it affords a mage 100% spell casting chance during that time - - - however, when a string of 10 hits kicks in, mages will be able to cast to some extent, it's not zero. It doesn't feel right.

    I think that the unpredictability of hit chance in real world fights contributes to why this thing works kinda like Mages Online (it's one thing among a number, really). When you are on a mage, you know that when you cast a spell, you can move your timing around to affect whether or not you will be interrupted. An archer doesn't get to make fine adjustments to his hit chance like that.

    So yeah... they got a ton of stuff going on right now

    (Transfers?!?

    "That cannot be seen" happening left and right, making tamers who fight in crappy terrain miserable - - how about a revert on that part of the code until you can fix the line of sight issues instead of torturing us like this??????????).

    So who knows what will happen with this.

    In general I think that Scratch is making a legitimate complaint. Something that should help is that they should consider making the hit chance implementation realize its intended hit percentages more accurately within smaller samplings of shots.
     
  16. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    One thing to consider might also be humans always have +20 parry, which archers can't use. Might factor in on an archer's bad run sometimes. However, with up to 25 hci on an archer's bow, moving shot, etc., I think that's a fair shake. And dexxers/archers do massive, relatively automatic damage, while they can focus on other things, so I think that's a fair shake against mages, as well (regarding 50/50).
     
  17. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    It's more than fair when spells don't miss and Evasion has many requirements and a timer. I leave it at that.

    As for the OP all I can say I sympathise with him. Been in that spot before, completely unable to land 2 consecutive hits on a mage and I'm not talking getting parried, just whiffing.

    Indeed there has been an exploit and then there has been a gimplate that had the same effects as the exploit practically.

    However these days I'd say with 120 WeaponSkill and 45% in both HCI and DCI and 1.25 swinging you're toe to toe with parrying mages. As someone said it's a flip of a coin and the odds are against you sometimes.

    If it helps I've found that the best way to hinder a parry mage is to keep them poisoned(through Infect and Shuriken) and your Stamina full, also they usually have lower HPs or lower resists(the trade-off for all this defensive power, in my eyes) from suits to reach 45% DCI so if you actually manage to score 2-3 AIs of 35 Dmg + SpellEffect while keeping them poisoned you're in a very good position and probably got your target stressed.

    I know everyone's chugging pots like mad but at least instead of Heal it's a Cure pot and you bought yourself time to score an AI hit that might not miss.

    Damn.. I wish potions worked completely differently. These days you can base your whole healing and defense on potions without any skill.
     
  18. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    hit lower defense does nothing to your opponent unless you actually hit them
    and even if you hit them the chance that a hit lower defense will actually go off is another dream

    id rather have max dci or over to cover the hld effect than parry any day
    that itself is a problem

    ayone saying otherwise is abusing the dci bug and prolly is sporting s 50mil sc mage wep with 15dci on it

    or are they expensive like that for another reason?
     
  19. When using the Mace & Shield glasses & and a 40%+ HLD weapon, the chances HLD will go off are very, very high. Once it does go off, the chances of your opponent staying under it's effects for the remainder of the fight are also very high as the 8 second timer resets every time it goes off.
     
  20. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Also, for them pesky dci mages, disarm is going to be your friend. Normally I wouldnt disarm, but against them I have to. Every wep skill cept archery has a wep that disarms. :danceb:
     
  21. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I play similar templates on a couple of different characters. One has wrestle, the other has swords. TBH the toon with the wep skill gets hit less than the toon with wrestle.

    Edit: Oh and they actually do dmg when they interrupt or block! :D
     
  22. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I liked it better when you were gone from the boards Blade. Any chance you can leave again?
     
  23. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    This isn't completely true. My mage has 55DCI 120 fencing/parry/tactics andmy dex is only 30 and dexers miss me more than they hit me, it seems they miss around 65% of the time.
     
  24. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    What if dexers never missed when they hit, the only thing that mattered was the Phys resist on the defenders armor or their Parry and DCI. The Parry and DCI would combined with the Phys resist to determine damage amount.


    What if mage spells were not interuptable and damage was tied to the defenders Magic Resist and Elemental Resists on armor. The Magic Resist and Elemental Resists would determine damage amount.

    This way there would be no "wiffing" from anyone and survival would be more about your skills and items. If you wanted to not take as much damage from a dexer you would need the items that help you take less damage, same for damage from a mage.
     
  25. Scratch

    Scratch Guest


    only if the you get the disarm off will that lower their dci by a max of 15
    hope that fork has lower d on it too or else your wasting your time
    and rearm is so quick you wont kill them before they rearm and youll be trying to get that disarm off again

    dci > parry with out skill points or dex
    that is a problem
     
  26. Scratch

    Scratch Guest


    problem with tis is that the pvp aspect should be about skill only
    not items

    you can thank aos for ruining that part with all the numbers
    not only did it create chaos for the poor not able to buy expensive armor
    but it ruined crafters gm weps and armor sales
    among countless other things to which a typical ea bandaid will never stick to
     
  27. ki-rin

    ki-rin Guest

    scratch, i know what you are talking about. i have a bush archer (120 archery, max hci, mace & shield glasses, and 40+ hld on bows) and when fighting those crazy dci mages quite often i have 5 or 6 consecutive misses while the mages just sit there and have all the time in the world to curse or corpse skin me and do their spell combo to kill. and spells always hit, no miss. it's even worse if they have parry skill. just kinda ridiculous for someone with max weapon skill and max hci to be missing 5 or more attacks in a row, like they don't have any weapon skill at all. :wall:
     
  28. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Scratch, you don't understand the game mechanics at all. Do you think the 45% DCI from wearing a Shield of Invuln, AoF and 15% DCI ring helps a Mage much when they wield a Boomstick and have no Macing skill? No, they get their ass torn to shreds by physical attacks, because they're hit all the time. Wep/Wrest Skill > DCI. Once you Disarm a Fencer/Mage of his Warfork, he's forced to rely on his Wrestling skill as defense, which he has none, you have a huge chance to hit him, even if he's stacking DCI. Parry > DCI as well, considering Parry can give you up to 40% Block Chance on any physical attack if you fail to dodge it, while DCI's 45% doesn't increase your Dodge Chance by 45%, it increases it by 22.5%.
    Stacking DCI isn't the only way to counter HLD, having HLA on your wep does the same thing too. If you hit someone with HLA on your wep, and they hit you with HLD, both of you are at the same chance to hit/miss each other as if neither of you had HLA/HLD. They nullify each other.
     
  29. Sunrise

    Sunrise Guest

    I so need a math degree
     
  30. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    you are assuming that all formulas work as described
    in test fights dci wins over parry
    dci with parry is even more ********
    and the most ******** of all is dci parry and bushido evasion

    uo formulas dont work lol