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dci on mage weps - kinda of an exploit

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Scratch, Jun 15, 2008.

?

Should dci have a dex requirement

  1. Yes, asap, nerf the mages that never miss landing a spell.

    16.3%
  2. Nah, I like missing 9 out of ten swings.

    44.9%
  3. Not sure of the differences it would make.

    14.3%
  4. Remove dci from spell channeling mage weapons.

    24.5%
  1. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    they made it so parry requires 80 dex to lessen the number of parry mages running around.

    then they make sc mw with dci

    using these weapons with the right jewelry
    a mage can stack enuff dci, which works just as well as parry it seems, on their chars and bypass the 80 dex requirement giving them 100 more skill points to use and an addition 50 or so stats to add to str and int.

    was this intended or a typical oversight?

    i vote to make dci require the same amount of dex as parry does.
    kind of ******** that a sc mw with 15 dci on it should cost 50mil on some shards.

    necro mages with high dci are insanely overpowered atm and need a lil tweakage. this overpowerment is obvious if you look at all the pvp chars playing this template. it even worse than the 360 point tamers with a bola and a 900 hp dragon saying all kill.

    vote to fix dci and add a dex requirement
     
  2. KickEm

    KickEm Guest

    so your saying to link DCI which is an attribute on a weapon in this case, to dex. its not overall a bad idea but i doubt it would work.
    I support your idea on the DCI of a weapon needing a requirement, but overall having DCI as an attribute requiring dexterity, which is the only choice because some mages dont have high dexterity, is a bad idea because DCI is on armor which completly makes sense.
     
  3. Vesta

    Vesta Visitor

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    Someone got beat up by a mage again. Damn those mages...
     
  4. AZ-

    AZ- Guest

    That someone also plays an archer. Archers spamming mortal, hitting for 30+ on the run while chugging, and landing 60 damage concussion blows aren't overpowered, just mages.

    Dexxers have it easy enough as it is, quit trying to make it easier. :sad2:
     
  5. i vote agaisnt it. I had 80 dex on my tank mage. my tank mage got nurfed when they tryed to stop the overpowered gimp temps. Now with 80 dex and 120 parry it doesnt work as well with out a 120 weapon skill. Im all for DCI on armor and weapons. even when i was 120 fencing 120 parry with 80+ dex and 45 dci i was still being hit alot..

    Stop with the nurf sticks already. Its called get a weapon with Hit Lower Defence on it and beef up on hit chance. Dexxers already have it super easy compared to a mage.

    ~Blade
     
  6. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    where is the option " the poster of this poll whines alot "
     
  7. Also i would like to know how this is an exploit? EA added it in and its working as intended so how is it an exploit? I truely wish players would learn the ins and outs of a game before screaming cheaters exploiters scripters.

    as for this poll:

    Should dci have a dex requirement:
    Yes, asap, nerf the mages that never miss landing a spell.
    Nah, I like missing 9 out of ten swings.
    Not sure of the differences it would make.
    Remove dci from spell channeling mage weapons.

    I would like to add my own:

    No

    there i like it plan and simple like a poll should be.

    ~Blade
     
  8. LOL

    What a one-sided poll this is. Not even really sure what the point is, all I can say is leave well enough alone. The devs put it in, its a "feature". And I believe the player base should be free to use all features of the game coding, whether they make sense or not, and whether they are legal or not. If it's coded, passes QA, its fair game baby!!!:lol:

    :popcorn:
     
  9. Raider Red

    Raider Red Seasoned Veteran
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    what he said.I agree 100% with blade the dude who got owned by serado(or whomever it was 2 years ago hehe),yeah I had to bring it up .:lol:
     
  10. Sir Blade of Yew The Guy Who Got OWNED By Serado hehe still have that char to.

    ~Blade
     
  11. DCI is nothing to do with parry, it's weapon dodge chance.
     
  12. Sneaky

    Sneaky Guest

    Your poll could not be more biased! :D

    Wheres the 'keep dci the way it is because it works fine' choice eh?
     
  13. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    Well at least 9 people figured out it was stupid and biased.
     
  14. archite666

    archite666 Guest

    Yeah really, you wanna nerf something, nerf tamers in pvp or bokkers.
     
  15. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    i dont play an archer
    my main is a bushido macer with no parry and 61dci

    dexxers dont have it easy
    we have to contend with hci and dci
    we have to stand next to or on top of to deal damage

    mages never miss a spell
    you cast
    you target
    it hits
    from 10 tiles away

    dci seems to work just as good as parry which is why i dont have parry atm
    even tho some swear that i do to the point of betting gold on it (lol)

    i bet most of the peeps that said "someone got owned" or "keep it like it is"
    play high dci mages.....imagine that

    i think you fail to realize that there is always an overpowered template
    wod archers were insane but every one played them
    deathstrikes for 60 was lame but everyone played that too at the time

    tell you what
    necro mages are the gimp atm
    curse and corpse skin lowers a suits resist...why
    can the dexxers do that to a mage......no
    dexxers miss alot depending on hci and dci.....
    does that effect mages?............no they never miss

    stop saying someone got owned when you play the template im describing

    come to my gm armor gm weapons no specs tourny
    no lrc no lmc no pets

    play pvp skill vs skill and not item vs item
    thats what i thought

    todays game is about items and over powered templates

    and before you say necro mages arent overpowered
    explain why there are so many now vs when the wod archers or deathstrike spamming dp dexxers were the over powered templates
     
  16. Beerman72

    Beerman72 Visitor

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    First off...if you are really serious about this how about a real poll? Not something you set up because you are ticked off about getting owned on your template.

    Second, adapt until change is made. Too much has been overnerfed lately while the things that are important are not being looked into. For instance necro spell cast rates and resistance to necro spells. Necro and SS were meant as secondary and teritiary skills...however due to alot of template nerfs these have nearly become true primary and seconddary skills in themselves.

    Third, if you really want to put a dent into things ask for a potions nerf. The poisoning skill is virtually pointless in fel now due to instacure. Put a timer on cure pots and bring back endless apple eating. This way at least these over powered temps will be lessened in functionality...and the necro skill will go back to really being a secondary skill.

    Last, how about putting special rules into place when using necro with magery...much like was done with casting rates of chiv while being a mage.

    Lets be concerned about issues with the templates and not with the gear.
     
  17. Casters do miss they get interupted.
    You've failed to realise that HLD is nothing to do with parry or dex.
    Curse and corpse skin lower resists because thats what their designed to do. Both can be removed in several ways. Corpse skin can be completely negated with resist stacking which is a lot easier to get on a suit that needs less mods.
    Dexxers can stack HLD/HLA/Hit spell & specials, which makes casting anything over circle 3 near impossible, while your bandages kick in for 50 with no interruptions, while your automatic attack does the work for you for no stamina cost.

    Aside from pets todays PvP is the most balanced it has been since AOS.
     
  18. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    I picked "nah...." just because this poll is completely biased.
     
  19. chad

    chad Sage
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    Scratch has been crying about this on the Atlantic HOT boards as well. In the PvP community he is not taken serious. I don't think one person has AGREED with him. This is coming from me, someone who plays a dexer full time on Atlantic as well.

    Not to mention mage weapons have been around since the beginning of AoS, but just now are they considered gimp? What a joke...
     
  20. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    wow you said items make the difference.....lolz

    and im not ticked off about getting owned...lol
    im tired of attacking mages and never being able to hit them....
    45 hci/61dci should get me a hit or two in once in awhile but if they have parry i can swing all day and barely do enuff damage to even matter before the aid goes off....
    cure pot timer....great
    endless apples....great
    mage necro stipulations....great
    superdragons.......lamest thing ever
    dread warhorse......also lame as hell, casting on you from screens away needs a fix asap

    corpse and curse can be removed easily only if you play a 4/6 chiv
    most the time the 4/6 casting jewels will cause you to give up the hci dci jewels
    unless you pay 100mil for each jewel piece
    having ones suit resist dropped is a big advantage for the attacker
    something only a mage or necro can do
    where is the dexxers equal attack here?

    mortal wound last for mere secs compared to a corpse or curse
    should be a lil longer since after the mortal you cant get a hit in again before it goes away thx to dci

    id rather have dci than parry and that is not balance....but youknow whats going to happen next
    tamers will get another pet
    or we all will get some more eye candy

    we dont need a new expansion
    we need the problems fixed

    besides Stygian Abyss supposedly required the kr client
    whos gonna sacrifice the awesomeness of 2d to play a new eye candy dungeon other than the tamers with the 900 point meat sheilds at their side

    kinda like the tokuno expansion box
    join uo
    get a house in the new lands

    lol make a noob char and go to tokuno see how far from town you get
    stand around and wait to place a house
    insta dead
    only the vets and tamers were able to go get this new housing
    id say that was false advertisement for sure
    and a major turn off to new players who "pre-ordered"

    ea is about money not your satisfaction
     
  21. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Wow scratch, I quit reading what you were typing because its just garbage. I mean, if you are playing a 120 bushy parry dexer with 61 dci...then im sure another dexer trying to fight you wont hit you at all either...i mean your crying cause you cant kill a mage, but yet you are playing a friggin bushy dexer...are you serious?
     
  22. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    I know awhile back there was a exploit that made people practically impossible to hit. Literally. I was on my Samurai/Swordsman with 120.0 Swords, 24% HCI (74% with Lightning Strike Toggled), and i was unable to land more than 5-7 hits on a Mage in 3-5 minutes, and this was with the guy standing RIGHT next to me and not moving at all almost the entire time. All i heard was *Whish* of my Blade of Insanity missing (Swings every 1.25 secs), or the *Tink* of the Mage parrying. Most of the hits i landed were after a miracle happened and i landed a Disarm on the Mage after switching to my Ornate Axe. It was so bad, that he was able to summon a Daemon right next to me as i was swinging every 1.25 secs with Lightning Strike toggled. Although i have heard that exploit was fixed shortly after it happened.
     
  23. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    The normal balance between dexxers and mages is that at equal skill/DCI/HCI, the dexxer will effectively hit half of the time and interrupt the mage. This balance is already screwed by the Hit lower defense property. Nerfing DCI for mages would be a disaster.


    What about having all hit spells on weapons only working after a skill check on the magery of the dexxer?
     
  24. AZ-

    AZ- Guest

    So, he wants DCI nerfed, mortal longer, and let me guess, concussion blow isn't overpowered? Get outta here, son, you're whining cus you die to mages on a dexxer. Dexxers havn't been this easy to play since WOD archers.
     
  25. Did I? Where? & difference to what?

    ? Yeah I haven't said that either.

    They can also be removed with apples and corpse skin can be completely negated with resists.

    More than likely but it has nothing to do with the rest of this thread.
     
  26. HCI & LS don't stack.
     
  27. Saris

    Saris Guest

    if it were me I would take hci and dci off most things and cap it at 15
     
  28. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    Exploit usually means cheating, not using the rules in an efficient way. Programs that make you run/cast faster are exploits. Using good items, not so much.

    If you really find defense chance on mages so problematic, there is this nice item property called "hit lower defense." I knew a dexer with a sick katana that had that and 4 other max properties (lightning, hit chance, damage, swing speed). He cuts through mages.

    You may also want to consider increasing your weapon skill and hit chance property if you are only hitting 10% of the time. Using stratics combat calculator, a legendary mage with 45% defense chance increase vs a legendary dexer with 45 hit chance increase gets is about 50/50 hit/no hit.

    It is amusing that people call for nerfs before trying to figure out tactics to beat the other person.

    If anyone on high is considering this neft, I have a few I'd like to suggest. I would like to neft everything used by accounts other than mine. I have the humility to realize that my losses are my fault, but I'm also too lazy to get better. Please, EA rescue this mediocre player by making everone else just a little bit worst. Heh.
     
  29. Alrich

    Alrich Guest

    most ******** poll ever.

    Where is the "this post was misleading and is proper game mechanics mislabeled as exploitation" choice?

    anyone can stack up to 70 dci, not just mages.
    :thumbdown:
     
  30. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Ya think? This is clearly a rant disguised as a poll.
     
  31. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    The OP is actually talking about 2 different things.

    1. -Mage Weapons. These should never have been added to the game. I cannot think of another item in this game or any other that when equiped gives you the equilavalant of 1 skill using the points of another. Ever tried to explain this property to a newbie? They don't know what you're talking about half the time since the entire concept of this property is ********. Can you image the imbalance it would create if they introduced a -Tactics item? (uses your tactics skill as a weapon skill as well). This is one property I would love to see removed from this game.

    I have no idea though what the mage weapon property has to do with DCI. You can get 45+ DCI from several other items.


    2. DCI.

    DCI does not replace the Parry skill. There should not be a penalty or pre-requisite to use DCI. If this was added, they would need to make a complete pass through the entire system and do this for every property. The other common idea is that hit spell effects on weapons should require the magery or eval skill, but there are several others that would need to be looked at.

    HCI only for people with tactics or a dex requirement?
    HLD only for people with tactics or a dex requirement?
    MR only for people with med or a int requirement?
    LMC only for people with med or an int requirement?


    We could go on and on.....

    Personally at 120 weapon skill, 45+ HCI and some HLD..... I don't miss very much.


    P.S. I agree the poll was completely biased.
     
  32. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    If you cap weapon skill and hci you don't miss 9 out of 10 swings. If you can't bother doing that then don't play a dexxer/archer in pvp. Dexxers/archers are already more than capable of powning a mage in PvP. The only people that claim dexxers/archers suck in pvp are dexxers/archers. When you can't interupt my spells everytime you hit me then I'll gladly let you whine about my having DCI as a mage.
     
  33. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Yes dxxers have it easy. Mages have to deal with interupts and resists. Learn to stay on top of or next to the player you are fighting...it is really not that hard and while you are doing it to a mage that mage can't cast anything because you continuoulsy interupt them when you hit them. Because you don't wish to max out your weapon skill and HCI, you desire mages to lose DCI, and that is your issue.

    Its 8 tiles. You should never let a mage get to be 8 tiles away to begin with. Casting has a delay built in which gives you ample opportunity to interupt the mage.

    If you have a decent weapon skill and high enough DCI you don't really need parry, but having parry with high DCI and high weapon skill definately helps.

    I bet everytime you beat a mage its because they lose connection? Learn to never let the mage cast. Thats not that hard for a dexxer to do. Learn to interupt. Not to mention you can heal through the damage the mages do as a dexxer making it next to impossible for a mage to solo kill a dexxer.

    You are right...there is always an over powered template. Right now it would have to be a stealther tamer or a dexxer ninja. Neither one of those are mages. Necromancer mages are on the strong side but they are so easily countered with 80 skill in chivalry that I won't call them oped.

    Remove curse...if you are a dexxer without chivalry you are an idiot to begin with.

    It doesn't matter rather you miss or not if you can never cast and having a good dexxer on you keeps you from ever casting anything.

    Stop whining how weak dexxers are simply because you can't play a dexxer.

    You do realise that gm armor/gm weapon contests normally go to mages because dexxers were buffed 100x more than mages with AoS right?

    This is UO. It is an item based game. However, it still requires some skill....as demonstrated by your ability to whine how a template that normally wins in PvP 95% of the time is weak because you can not play it right.

    Yesterdays game was about the same. Who didn't play a gm ljack back in the day just to be able to kill most people in one to two hits? Who didn't enjoy playing a macer just so you could destroy everyone's armor before you actually killed them? If you think GM weapons and armor didn't run a huge spectrum you are wrong. Those with good GM weapons and armor did better. Those with magical weapons and armor and often a blessed deed on their favorite weapon did pretty well too.

    Because its an extremely strong template. They would be overpowered if having 80 chivalry didn't basically destroy anything they are capable of doing, and its not hard to get 80 chivalry into a template.
     
  34. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    first i am not playing a bush parry dexxer
    i took the parry off cuz the dci works better for me

    my skills better lol....you got any 125 powerscrolls

    120 mace tact anat bushido
    100 heal 80 chiv
    thats it
    not even 720 atm

    45hci 61dci
    94 damage increase
    8mr on suit plus 3 from 20med 20focus as a human
    121/146/60 potted up
    120hp/146dex/67mana
    255 stat cap
    in a suit thats 70/86/62/85/70 and all 70 when corpsed

    where am i supposed to increase my hci or skills to hit the sc mw dci mage with 30 dex?
    hell even lightning strike misses alot of these new mage suits stacked with dci

    oh thats right
    i need the right item with hld and hla, again pitting items vs items

    i dont suck, i just cant afford to buy the elite gear at 100 mil per piece to compete
    of course if was a duper that dupes heartwood barbed runis and val hammers maybe i could just make my own.

    and i really dont think im suited that bad
    but i still only hit 1-2 times out of 6-10 swings
    that is total bs

    30 dex mages with dci
    lol impossible to hit

    maybe thats why they all play that template now and why the sc mw with high dci cost 100mil

    nah couldnt be
     
  35. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Should someone tell him that the cap for DCI in both pvp and pvm is 45%? Nah. We'll just let him continue with an error in his gear, and allow him to blame everyone else that he sucks.
     
  36. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Off topic,

    EO and Para.. lowering the resist spells skill portion of the evil omen spell needs to be removed.

    Yes that along with Tamers are my 2 pvp complaints at the moment.
     
  37. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    I have a huge issue believing you only hit 10% of the time with this template. Either you are exagerating your misses or lieing about your template.

    HCI and DCI are both capped at 45% there is no reason to have over that.

    It seems the vast majority of the posters here (myself included) don't believe you are telling the truth about how often you actually hit.

    Its an item based game. If you have an issue with that then don't play it.

    Barbed runics are EASY to get. It just requires some time and effort. You can make decent weapons with anything over a bronze runic hammer (although its harder to hit a decent weapon with a bronze for sure).

    Yes it is...that would have something to do with the reason no one believes this is actually the case.

    Then how come other dexxers seem to be able to pown mages so easily? None of them have dci and 30 dex? I doubt that. It is more likely that you are just being inaccurate on how much you miss.

    Is 100 million your favorite price for everything? I am highly doubting that all these items sell for 100 mill. Its also very easy to hit the DCI cap without having a weapon with DCI on it at all. AoF + ASH + SoI is 45 DCI, 40% LRC, and some nice resists.
     
  38. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Last patch made EO removable with remove curse. So, everything a necromancer can do is now fixable with remove curse.
     
  39. Your 45 HCI 120 wep skill puts you equal with a mages 120 weapon skill and 45 DCI.

    If you want to tip the balance you need to get HLD which you can very easily.

    Mages are hard pushed to get HLA on their mage weapons as well as the DCI, they don't have access to glasses with HLA to lower your HCI.

    100m? Mace & Shields are 12m to buy from the npc, on most shards players sell them for 6-8, you can get weapons with HLD for a few mil.

    Yeah sure there are some people who price things at 100m, doesn't mean anyones buying them.
     
  40. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Patch notes say it was Blood Oath that was now removable with remove curse.
     
  41. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    the reason to exceed the 45 dci cap is to combat the hld effect much as the fire and poison are at 85 to combat the corpse skin effect

    you forgot about folded steel glasses

    100 mil is round and overpriced number
    like most high end weapons
    maybe you like 68999999 better

    point is they are ridiculously overpriced becuase of the rarity and and bs usefullness to a mage
    i infact sold a sc -1 one handed mw with 13 dci and 40 damage inc for 32mil
    guy was kinda dumb imo but he bought it so what the hey right?

    dci does not belong on a mage wep
    especially a sc one

    if max dci is so easy to get on armor for a mage why do they need to have a weapon to enable suitmods to go
    dont they have to give something up to get another
    or is it all a grab bag for them now

    get hld
    get hla
    get this wep
    use that skill
    play how we determine and use the items we deem best

    item vs item pvp
    how lame it has become
    all hail the devs for the ideal that killed uo......AOS numbers game
     
  42. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    my skills are viewable on uo.com
    they are public
    661 skill points lol
     
  43. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    Um besides the poll being biased. I did not leave a vote.

    Reason: You can stack fire/poison resist, 80 chiv negates almost everything, apples and pots help, Use a weapon/s that bleed and disarm, disarm being the first special you would want to use. If you disarm a mage that relies on mage weap if you disarm him/her they are a sitting duck to any dexer. Bleed well everyone knows what bleed does to a mage. but anyhow just a FYI kind of thing.
     
  44. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    If you only have 661 skill points, you're not even at the cap for a noob account. You might wanna stfu and grind those skills, maybe then you'll be competitive. I'm fairly new to the pvp scene, and mages, though they present a different kind of challenge, can be soundly beaten by a dexxer who has a clue wtf they are doing.
     
  45. Dexdash

    Dexdash Guest

    "Yes, asap, nerf the mages that never miss landing a spell."

    wow if youd ever played a mage youed be yelling nurf those bushido evaders cuz i never land a spell.
     
  46. I didn't forget about folded steel glasses, they don't have HLA either.

    100m or 68999999 doesn't make any difference it doesn't cost you anywhere near that to add HLD to your suit.