1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Dear Devs and the fine folks at Broadsword...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kylie Kinslayer, May 29, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    I know things are hectic right now but I was wondering if y'all could toss a larger game play window for CC and a "large print" version to chat and people talking could be tossed on the heap that is the "to do" list. The eyeballs of some of the non-younger folks who play are not what they once were ;)
     
  2. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
    Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Supporter Glorious Lord ACW

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,081
    Likes Received:
    2,260
    *points a finger towards an old friend sitting on the other side of the tavern who is squinting a a strange glowing box and wiggles it.

    "In Lor"

    *nods in satisfaction and settles back into his chair sipping a glass of good old Moonglow red"
     
    Kylie Kinslayer likes this.
  3. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Crazed Zealot

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    2,503
    I hear ya brother! Preach it! Maybe I'll make my HDTV my monitor :)
     
    Parnoc and Kylie Kinslayer like this.
  4. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend LTC

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,122
    Likes Received:
    1,617
  5. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,968
    Likes Received:
    5,453
    Been there done that....... 42" of joy...... but the screen is still TOO TINY in the CC. So I made the switch.... and I'll never go back.

    The fact of the matter is if they enlarged the window it'd be the most hideously ugly pixilated mess you've ever seen. That's why they don't, won't or haven't done it. Perhaps when and if they finish upgrading and fine tuning the graphics as they said they were.... they can then offer a larger window. But I'm not holding my breath.
     
  6. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    We already have that. It's called the Enhanced Client.

    The Developers have addressed the issue of a larger screen in the CC many times, and why it can't be done. Search for those threads if you need more info.
     
    Kylie Kinslayer and Ludes like this.
  7. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,752
    Likes Received:
    1,563
    To all of you EC people HUSH... We who are rather getting older in age and all of the CC who by the way pay same as you do for this game would like to not need the magnifying page to see things...
    Mind you yes EC has some great features that CC is rather envious of. BUT SOME of US cant use it.
    Now mind you my son just bought us a nice 55 inch hdtv, and that puppy has a super rez and UO on it is a dream! But the print is still small and so is the pic for the bigger wider monitors these days. Even on my 17" lappy UO screen could go a bit bigger to fit in.
    As the Tech advances this might be a good thing to ask for. I am all in on progress for our fellow UO players.
     
    Faenwen and outcry like this.
  8. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    To all of you CC users - HUSH until you know what you are talking about.

    I suggest that you research the past threads in UHall that have already addressed this issue, rather than bringing it up once every month or two. There are technical reasons that the developers have said prevented a larger game window.

    This is not abut the "Tech advances" but about the bandwidth and amount of data required to push 2D graphics. The EC was created to address these issues.
     
  9. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    Lest you and others accuse me of haxxoring, I'll just point out that someone did, I hear, make a larger play window. That's all the request is, a larger window without any need for enlarging toons or backpacks or anything else.

    The EC has some nice features but is overall such a horribly pixelated mess that I hardly ever use it. The Devs claim that larger play windows in the CC would look too blocky, when they're already doing the same thing in the EC.
     
  10. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    That's a lot of baloney. Perhaps it was valid once upon a time when 150-200 ms pings were common, but in any properly designed game, movement will be based on a few bytes of data telling the client what animation to move to what spot along with appropriate animations. All the real work is done client-side.

    Until the Devs improve the EC or make a 3D client that looks decent, doing away with the CC will drive away too much of the player base. You want only the 3D client, that's fine, but be prepared to say goodbye to the game when EA pulls the plug for lack of revenue.
     
  11. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    What ever you say, Oh Wise One. You take it up with the Developers then, sine they are the ones that said it took too much computer resources and bandwidth. This isn't my argument and it isn't yours either, because you do not have the expertise in what either client can do. That is what the developers do, and they are the ones that said it wasn't happening.

    It's just a waste of resources for developers to even consider it when the EC already does what was asked for.
     
  12. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    You can do us the courtesy of citing where a Dev said such a thing, notwithstanding what I said is correct. You can mock me all you'd like, but it's an absurd notion that the CC's design so many years ago was so inefficient when bandwidth was limited, yet today the EC's emphasis is on efficiency when bandwidth is cheap. And as far as "expertise," there have been times when the current team doesn't even know its own game.

    You can consider it "a waste of resources," but know that if you have your way, you can kiss the game as you know it goodbye. You can either have both clients going, or play the EC on a player-run shard once EA pulls the plug.
     
  13. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    Do your own research, I told you where to find it the past threads on the topic.

    Call it absurd if you want, that still doesn't change the exponentially increasing demand for bandwidth required for the CC as the graphics size increases. That is how the developers described it. It would require a new client to accomplish that, and it would be a waste of resources to go down that road again.
     
  14. Deraj

    Deraj Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    417
    Unfortunately I do not think a larger gameplay window would help very much. The graphics, as you know, were made for a lower resolution, so even if you expanded the gameplay window, you're still going to struggle with the tiny graphics - just on a larger screen. Hypothetically you could "zoom in", but then the graphics would be, as one poster put it, a "hideously ugly pixelated mess". This effect is observable on the EC where if you zoom in, the graphics look particularly bad. Hopefully this will be resolved with the higher resolution art. Unless CC gets higher resolution art (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that), it shall remain as it is. Personally I like the small screen, but I can understand why many would not.
     
  15. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    Wow, what an expected non-answer answer. It's not like I'm demanding peer review. The least you can do is back up your claims.

    Here's a free clue for you as far as programming: graphics size does not in and of itself require more bandwidth. Most of the data is on the client side. You can claim all you want about "how the developers described it," but let's see you post links to where they said any such thing.

    And you really, really want to say goodbye to the game as you know it? Why is it so hard for you to understand that at least half the population just don't like the EC and will not migrate?
     
  16. Angyl of Ohr

    Angyl of Ohr Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    39
    Gentlemen! Gentlemen! Let us agree to disagree! ;)
     
  17. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    517
  18. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    clue... less
    I agree... this really doesn't affect me one way or the other. I was just pointing out what developers have already said, not my opinion. Some people just have trouble accepting they are sometimes wrong.
     
  19. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    Gee, another expected non-answer answer from you. When you can't refute, you go stick your head in the sand again.

    Ponder this: why does your e-mail client not draw the actual pixels on your screen? Even UO 17 years ago was designed with sending minimal data. The original BBS programs were written that way.

    Doesn't? You still can't understand that you can have your way of the Devs , at the cost of EA pulling the plug.

    Claudia, thanks for the link, but:

    1. What Kyronix posted is not what Winter is talking about at all. There is nothing about the EC being "more efficient" or anything of the kind.

    2. Kyronix doesn't even understand that we don't want larger graphics, but a larger play window. Some of us playing the CC would like to see a bit beyond, that's all.
     
  20. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    ugh. again?
     
  21. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    Please desist with the attacking each other. It's not necessary and it's not nice.

    The only practical way to enlarge your CC game window is to set the screen resolution on your monitor
     
  22. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
  23. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    Even without the resulting blockiness, that's still not what I've described: it's to enlarge the game play window without enlarging the internal graphics, like in the EC.

    Someone did it once. It was deemed illegal. It shows, though, that it's technically possible with the CC.
     
  24. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    Agreed

    Stop trying to put words into my posts. I did not say the EC was more "efficient," and these are the posts that I was referring to anyway. Any historian worthy of the name could research the posts and find those himself.

    The two clients handle data differently, in which the EC transmits less data than the CC. The EC is a 3D client, the whereas the CC is a 2D client. I think it was Draconi that had a nice description of this and why scaling the EC did not increase the server and data load, but the CC did. If you can't understand that or disagree with it, then take it to PM with Kyronix, not me. Anything more is just a waste of my time.
     
  25. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    possibly you should re-read the OP. A larger play window will not help Kylie read the journal or see items more clearly. Changing the resolution on his monitor so that everything appears a little larger will - provided he doesn't take it too far.
     
    Kylie Kinslayer likes this.
  26. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    I know and understand that. I'm not attacking anyone, just trying to explain what was said before by the developers.

    But, I'm out of here. Someone else can deal with Zog's wall of words.
     
  27. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    You wrote previously: "the bandwidth and amount of data required to push 2D graphics..." In other words, efficiency. Do you deny that, or were you talking about something else?

    You made assertions, and it's your responsibility to back them up. You're being completely absurd to expect others to do your homework for things that may not even exist. And with you having said I don't have "expertise" in how either works, now you're trying to pass yourself as the expert when you don't know basic programming techniques.

    If Draconi said that, then go ahead. Produce the post. Notwithstanding you don't even know the origin of my forum handle, note that it's not "Stratics Archivist" or anything that remotely implies I'm going to pull up obscure posts for you.

    And if this "wall of words" is too much for you to handle, that's really too bad you can't handle this even lengthier reply of a whole 163 words. That's just too much for some people to cope with, I suppose.
     
  28. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    Yes, I know what he's saying, but I'm also bringing up resizing insofar as the game play window, which others and I have wished for since larger LCDs became the norm.

    As far as making things in UO bigger, the better thing for the OP to do, albeit with a monetary cost, is to get a bigger monitor. Mine has 90 ppi, and for UO I wouldn't want to go any finer. I've suggested to one of my friends to look for a 19" with 1280x1024 resolution. The pixels will be pretty large but not look distorted in UO.
     
  29. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
  30. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    517
    Did you not read the link? A larger play window is EXACTLY what Kyronix's post addressed.
     
  31. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    Yes, I did read the link, and Kyronix doesn't get it. Let me put it this way: even if we're talking about filler like at the castle, the map files already contain the data that can be drawn. So why that excuse of filler?

    And I'm asking a certain individual to justify his own claim of "the bandwidth and amount of data required to push 2D graphics," which is not addressed in that thread. The bottom line is that if the CC client is killed, the game will follow.
     
  32. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    This worked like a charm. tyVm!! Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest though.. sorry :)
     
    Lord Nabin likes this.
  33. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,379
    Likes Received:
    4,698
    *chuckles*
     
    Lord Nabin likes this.
  34. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
    Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Supporter Glorious Lord ACW

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,081
    Likes Received:
    2,260
    Wisdom triumphs again.
     
    Kylie Kinslayer likes this.
  35. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Patron PITMUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    5,282
    I'm lost without my glasses, whether in-game or out. I also play (and do everything else) on a laptop with a 15" monitor. Since I don't intend to upgrade to another computer and/or monitor any time soon, I can live with the current appearance of the CC. I do have to squint a bit when trying to read the journal, but I suspect I'd still be struggling with that even with a larger play window. Bad eyesight is a pain in the... well, you know. :rolleyes:
     
  36. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    lol.. I am slowly finding that out. Never had any problems with my eyes until the last year.. hmmm, I reckon I am getting older huh? lol

    You should give Petra's solution a try. I have a 20" widescreen monitor and changed the resolution from 1600x900 to 1360x768 and I can see every word on screen without squinting or leaning up. It does shrink the black area a decent amount so if you pull a lot of spells and stick them around it will be a pain in the same place... I guess that is what life is about, picking and choosing which pain in that area you can live with :mf_prop:
     
  37. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,968
    Likes Received:
    5,453
    Well... I been having to read over the top of my glasses librarian style.... so I suspect my eyes are getting worse as well.
     
    Kylie Kinslayer likes this.
  38. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    You're running about 78 ppi, pretty large. The drawback for pixel-precise types like me is that if you look closely, individual pixels here and there will be rendered larger, looking "blocky" or distorted as if the game made an error in drawing. There's always a tradeoff, but maybe in this case the advantage is your lesser eyesight. :p

    I liked UO best on an old 17" CRT monitor, 1024x768 screen resolution and an 800x600 game play window. I first played on a 15" monitor when the game play window could be only 800x600, which was fine, but on a 17" CRT, everything was comfortably large with sufficient black border. CRTs' pixels are by nature a little less sharp, so I felt the game graphics looked smoother than on LCDs.
     
    Kylie Kinslayer likes this.
  39. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    Yeah, there is some slight trade off. The most notable thing is when I mouse over something and the tag comes up the open area of it has small little white dots in it, but that is aight by me :)
     
  40. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,752
    Likes Received:
    1,563
    I have found in the past changing colors on the Text in chat and such to help in the reading department. I have ajusted the rez and all that too for max visability. As Mal said have found myself too doing the librarian eyeglass viewing.. ALot of things can be done and I do unerstand the hastle the dev discribed in the enlargement of the gaming window. I do have a caviot for you all.. my son works in the industry and monitors for even home use are geting better and bigger... and if players who do go for the "Bigger is Better" option UO will only fill the left top corner of one.... so it might be a good thing if the Team keep a slow (if time permits to work on) type rebuild of the screen size and the rezolution.
    **had the opertunity to see UO played on a 29 inch monitor...... i nearly had to crawl on the desk to see the window....**
    Some of the other problems our friends are having is fixable. Like the inside of packs. *before you go off it can be made an option client side to change the inner bag lightness of the leather** Grim has said it's a very tiny ajustment...
    Eyes of any age can have trouble seeing black rock.....
     
  41. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
  42. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Patron PITMUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    5,282
    I guess "bigger is better" is the prevailing opinion these days regarding almost everything (an opinion that rusty antiques like me don't always agree with). I can live with a small play window. I just hope they don't decide to drop the CC... I don't want to leave UO as long as it's still up and running, but that would do it for me.
     
  43. Fingers

    Fingers Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    30
    "I just hope they don't decide to drop the CC... I don't want to leave UO as long as it's still up and running, but that would do it for me."
    THIS !
     
    Faenwen and Kylie Kinslayer like this.
  44. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    Educated guesswork here - look at the screen shots that are posted by Devs, when they do. What client are they in? My guess is most of the devs play in CC :D
     
    old gypsy likes this.
  45. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Patron PITMUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    5,282
    :thumbsup:
     
  46. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    As I've posted before...

    Classic client.jpg
     
  47. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    648
    What if they released a gypsy wagon but you can only use it in the EC?


    *evil grin*
     
    old gypsy likes this.
  48. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Patron PITMUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    5,282
    LOL! You little devil, you! :devil:

    Honestly, I guess I wouldn't be able to know for sure unless it actually happened. In the meantime, I'm not going to hold my breath. :)
    _________________

    Additional thought: It would have to be one heck of a nice looking and well-equipped gypsy wagon to make me consider it!
     
    #48 old gypsy, Jun 1, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  49. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    When Ilshenar first opened, you had to use the 3D client to get there. It was not exactly successful.
     
  50. Tomarke

    Tomarke Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran D^A

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    182
    Honestly, I agree with Zog. I completely detest the animations and graphics in the EC. I took a challenge and played it for a month - I liked many of the options it has available including Pincos, especially the macro system but I could not stand looking at the actual game. As soon as I could I changed back to the CC and all was right with the world again.

    The one big complaint I have with the CC is the size of the game window on my 24" LED monitor. I too would like to be able to resize the game window without making the graphics bigger, I just want the bigger field of view which is available to EC players.

    This one option is the only reason I occasionally use the EC because it is very handy in placing houses...and then I log out and log back into the CC.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.